PGX just stepped on an Atom Bomb. A classic tale of deceit, trimming,and woe.

[underthebigw]

It would have taken me a bit to catch some of the trimming without the before images but along with the ragged edges here and there I noticed at least one book that you can see a dip in the cut then a gradual return to level then an angle down to the corner..... definitely not of the same skill as Ewert's slashman.

 

 

 

Well first off, am I right..micro trimming Ewert style is a different beast then trimming off an entire chunk from a book. Kinda hard to compare the two.

 

I am not used to looking at these type of small cereal giveaways,I have never really ever seen them before. But due to their age, isn't it neigh impossible for them to have a clean razor edge like that? Even if preserved perfectly all these years.

Not these books in paticular, but rather is it possible for books like this to have a clean raw edge like that period. Let alone on all 3 sides.

 

And if not, then I dont see how this kind of trimming could be missed, even through gross negligence, or worse yet incompetence

 

Those in the know please correct me if I am way off here.

 

 

Ze-

 

I'm a little late to the party, so I'm still catching up.

 

As for your question regarding the cereal books--I have about 7 or 8 original packs of books, both Disney and Looney Tunes. I was very lucky, and paid an average of 5 bucks each for all of these, unread, in their original mailers. Including the DD Atom Bomb book.

 

Here's my take--there are many more HG copies of these out there than previosly believed. Finds like mine, in original mailers, are not completely unheard of.

 

That said, my books are unread, gorgeous copies that average 9.4, I'd guess. They were found in a dresser by an antique dealer and were clearly never touched. NONE of mine have edges or corners that sharp. These were cheap giveaways, printed on cheaper paper than used on regular books of the time, with newsprint covers. I'd have to lean towards these being trimmed, even without seeing Red's detective work.

[Ze-man]

 

As for your question regarding the cereal books--I have about 7 or 8 original packs of books, both Disney and Looney Tunes. I was very lucky, and paid an average of 5 bucks each for all of these, unread, in their original mailers. Including the DD Atom Bomb book.

 

Your story is a great one,what a find! 5 bucks...

If you could find the time to post a few scans for comparison, it would be great.

 

Thnx for answering my question.

 

Ze-

[Johnny G]

Is someone accusing Daniel of actually doing the trimming and submitting?

 

 

How does anyone buy books and have them in PGX holders in a week? PGX has a 17-day turnaround right now, and given the time it would take to receive the purchased Cherrios books, that'd mean that whoever had these books had instant access to PGX's services. I can't think of how anyone else in the world gets books sent, graded, and returned by PGX in...what, maybe a day?

 

Actually, not to sound like I am on anyone's side here, but when I first tried PGX's services I drove down to Eugene. Dropped the books off and had them returned the next day. Not out of the realm of possibilities

 

Again, I AM NOT on the PGX bandwagon... just stating that it can be done.

 

John

 

Where did you drop them off at?

 

Actually I need to re-word that post...

 

The books were "picked up"

 

I wanted to drop them off but couldn't (the flood gates have opened!!!). Daniel came to my hotel and met with me there. I gave him the books and called the next morning to pick up, again, they were dropped off to me.

 

I can say that I wasn't too comfortable with giving some guy at a hotel room my books to leave with! However, I plan on running a decent sized web-site operation. It will be for selling comics (DUH). Now, do I want people to know where I live (as will be done from home) or would I meet with them if a sale was local and pick up requested. I would choose the latter!

 

I know that this is a different set of circumstances and DO believe that there are qusetions to be answered! But does it really matter where the work is done???

 

John

[Johnny G]

It would have taken me a bit to catch some of the trimming without the before images but along with the ragged edges here and there I noticed at least one book that you can see a dip in the cut then a gradual return to level then an angle down to the corner..... definitely not of the same skill as Ewert's slashman.

 

 

 

Well first off, am I right..micro trimming Ewert style is a different beast then trimming off an entire chunk from a book. Kinda hard to compare the two.

 

I am not used to looking at these type of small cereal giveaways,I have never really ever seen them before. But due to their age, isn't it neigh impossible for them to have a clean razor edge like that? Even if preserved perfectly all these years.

Not these books in paticular, but rather is it possible for books like this to have a clean raw edge like that period. Let alone on all 3 sides.

 

And if not, then I dont see how this kind of trimming could be missed, even through gross negligence, or worse yet incompetence

 

Those in the know please correct me if I am way off here.

 

 

Ze-

 

I'm a little late to the party, so I'm still catching up.

 

As for your question regarding the cereal books--I have about 7 or 8 original packs of books, both Disney and Looney Tunes. I was very lucky, and paid an average of 5 bucks each for all of these, unread, in their original mailers. Including the DD Atom Bomb book.

 

Here's my take--there are many more HG copies of these out there than previosly believed. Finds like mine, in original mailers, are not completely unheard of.

 

That said, my books are unread, gorgeous copies that average 9.4, I'd guess. They were found in a dresser by an antique dealer and were clearly never touched. NONE of mine have edges or corners that sharp. These were cheap giveaways, printed on cheaper paper than used on regular books of the time, with newsprint covers. I'd have to lean towards these being trimmed, even without seeing Red's detective work.

 

I bought an OO Golden Disney Collection about a month ago. There were approx. 90 of the Mini's in it. All top notch!!! Cheerios Premiums, Cheerio's 3-D, Wheaties and a couple of others. They ARE out there to be found, I'm just glad I found them

[Ze-man]

Let me get this straight...oh never mind.

We already have Hit Squads with men in hats, we might as well add covert drop off's in hotel rooms.

 

 

Shall I change the "Classic" in my title to "Noir"

 

Ze-

[BachelorOfComix]

Shall I change the "Classic" in my title to "Noir"

 

Ze-

Maybe you could start by changing "classsic" to "classic"

[qualitycomix]

Is someone accusing Daniel of actually doing the trimming and submitting?

 

 

How does anyone buy books and have them in PGX holders in a week? PGX has a 17-day turnaround right now, and given the time it would take to receive the purchased Cherrios books, that'd mean that whoever had these books had instant access to PGX's services. I can't think of how anyone else in the world gets books sent, graded, and returned by PGX in...what, maybe a day?

 

Actually, not to sound like I am on anyone's side here, but when I first tried PGX's services I drove down to Eugene. Dropped the books off and had them returned the next day. Not out of the realm of possibilities

 

Again, I AM NOT on the PGX bandwagon... just stating that it can be done.

 

John

 

Where did you drop them off at?

 

Actually I need to re-word that post...

 

The books were "picked up"

 

I wanted to drop them off but couldn't (the flood gates have opened!!!). Daniel came to my hotel and met with me there. I gave him the books and called the next morning to pick up, again, they were dropped off to me.

 

I can say that I wasn't too comfortable with giving some guy at a hotel room my books to leave with! However, I plan on running a decent sized web-site operation. It will be for selling comics (DUH). Now, do I want people to know where I live (as will be done from home) or would I meet with them if a sale was local and pick up requested. I would choose the latter!

 

I know that this is a different set of circumstances and DO believe that there are qusetions to be answered! But does it really matter where the work is done???

 

John

 

It doesn't matter except when I send a $1,000+ book off to a grading company, I don't expect it to be sitting on someone's living room floor being graded. I expect proper care to be taken and a process to be used so no damage occurs and the comic isn't stolen.

 

Good luck with your web site!

[comicdonna]

she gave me an address.

Terance Leder

PO. box 2423

Eugene, Or. 97402

 

That's the same exact address I had to send my payment to for a christinascollectibles auction win back in '04.

 

They had just changed over from TDcardsncomics so when I was bidding on the auction I had no idea it was Leder until I received the invoice(they didn't take Paypal then).

 

The book I won is suspect looking and I have planned on resubbing it to CGC but haven't gotten around to it yet.

i guess it's better that the "TD" in "TDcardsncomics" is "Terrance" and "Dennis" rather than "Terrance" and "Daniel."

 

still...you worked for PGX? maybe that explains the "whistling greggys" you posted. when does your NDA run out?

That is a very clever observation Sal. That would explain, why Dennis paid me for the book, instead of Terance or Christina BTW (Thats 1 r in Terance)

[Ze-man]

Shall I change the "Classic" in my title to "Noir"

 

Ze-

Maybe you could start by changing "classsic" to "classic"

 

Done, well my work here is now over.. carry on.

 

Ze-

[ComicSupply]

Another thing worth mentioning is I doubt, highly doubt you can get your insurance on your house, or garage to cover items that possibly might be there due to the incoming of collectibles to be graded.

 

For instance with my business, if a $200k collection comes in, I would have to change the policy to include anything above and beyond what I am already covered for.

 

So, if he is working out of his house and you send him $10k worth of books and it burns down, do you really expect him to give you the $10k back and not use that money towards rebuilding his house?

[BachelorOfComix]

Shall I change the "Classic" in my title to "Noir"

 

Ze-

Maybe you could start by changing "classsic" to "classic"

 

Done, well my work here is now over.. carry on.

 

Ze-

And how about "deciept" to "deceit"?

[Johnny G]

Is someone accusing Daniel of actually doing the trimming and submitting?

 

 

How does anyone buy books and have them in PGX holders in a week? PGX has a 17-day turnaround right now, and given the time it would take to receive the purchased Cherrios books, that'd mean that whoever had these books had instant access to PGX's services. I can't think of how anyone else in the world gets books sent, graded, and returned by PGX in...what, maybe a day?

 

Actually, not to sound like I am on anyone's side here, but when I first tried PGX's services I drove down to Eugene. Dropped the books off and had them returned the next day. Not out of the realm of possibilities

 

Again, I AM NOT on the PGX bandwagon... just stating that it can be done.

 

John

 

Where did you drop them off at?

 

Actually I need to re-word that post...

 

The books were "picked up"

 

I wanted to drop them off but couldn't (the flood gates have opened!!!). Daniel came to my hotel and met with me there. I gave him the books and called the next morning to pick up, again, they were dropped off to me.

 

I can say that I wasn't too comfortable with giving some guy at a hotel room my books to leave with! However, I plan on running a decent sized web-site operation. It will be for selling comics (DUH). Now, do I want people to know where I live (as will be done from home) or would I meet with them if a sale was local and pick up requested. I would choose the latter!

 

I know that this is a different set of circumstances and DO believe that there are qusetions to be answered! But does it really matter where the work is done???

 

John

 

It doesn't matter except when I send a $1,000+ book off to a grading company, I don't expect it to be sitting on someone's living room floor being graded. I expect proper care to be taken and a process to be used so no damage occurs and the comic isn't stolen.

 

Good luck with your web site!

 

I agree 100% and that's the reason for driving the 8 hours to go there! I wanted to see the operation.

 

Thanks for well wishes

 

John

[Ze-man]

Shall I change the "Classic" in my title to "Noir"

 

Ze-

Maybe you could start by changing "classsic" to "classic"

 

Done, well my work here is now over.. carry on.

 

Ze-

And how about "deciept" to "deceit"?

 

I was waiting for that won, I see you want to get yor mony's wurth.

Anething elze/

 

Za-

[BachelorOfComix]

That is all.

[VintageComics]

You outright accused Patterson of not only knowing that trimmed books were being submitted but of trimming himself. You have proof?

 

At least when I have made statements regarding people's conduct I had proof. Not supposition. Not conjecture. Proof.

 

It is called not being a hypocrite as to how you deal with people.

 

FYI, I've met Patterson once, on the panel I hosted in SD.

 

Mark....you are simply sounding foolish. Go back, read the linked threads and then come back and start over. I never said Patterson outright trimmed these books. I said it was quite possible.

 

For the record, I solicited and posted Patterson's opinion on one of his previous problems, the phoney ASM 69 scan. Go back and educate yourself first!

 

And again, since you are alluding to Schmell, what proof do you have that he did anything but press books? You may not like pressing, but that's a far cry from trimming and serving as the personal grader for a suspicious dealer. Do you have PROOF that DS did something else other than press and resub? I haven't seen anything else from you. You've have still missed my whole point about my concern about the treatment of DS on these boards.

 

And what does your meeting Patterson have anything to do with this?

 

If you could just slow your pontification pace and STFU for a couple of minutes, try a little humility and just educate yourself fully with the backstory on this.....and stop posting inaccuracies, you'll look less of a dope.

 

One more thing....I love it that you think the only ultimate outcome of this is legal action. It all leads to legal action, right? It isn't a real problem until a lawyer is billing for it right? Baloney. (and I apologize to the other attorneys on the boards.)

 

There are enough question about Patterson, the structure of PGX and their relationship to TD/Leder to make me quite sure I am talking about serious stuff. There is also evidence existing that links a lot of this together. Again, if you slowed down, and stopped your inflated yapping, maybe you'd learn something. Hate to tell you, but you're not the final authority around here.

 

Best, Brad

 

[towards2112]

BTW, check out all the PGX 9.9s from this seller.

 

What are the odds of one seller having that many 9.9s EVER... let alone at one time?

 

As far as moderns go, if you submit a box of say.....200, that has never

been opened, and pay for prescreening at say 9.8, well just maybe you

might get a few.....

Would this imply that I trim books? no, only to a looney....

Does this imply I like PGX ? could be, or could be not.....

Would I be defending PGX ? not really, just shooting a hole in someone's kneejerk

reaction...

Do I trust PGX, or CGC for that matter ? NO, I really don't trust anyone but

my wife, son, and sometime's my dog. That's why I have locks on the front

and back doors, and don't loan my power tools to the neighbors.

It would seem that at least one attorney on this forum knows the definition

of liable. Thank you Mr. Zaid.

[supapimp]

you have a case of 200 wolverine #5's?

[awe4one]

Are you implying Leder gave PGX a case of GS X-Men #1 to get all those 9.8/9.9s?

 

Jim

[BachelorOfComix]

Are you implying Leder gave PGX a case of GS X-Men #1 to get all those 9.8/9.9s?

 

Jim

 

I guess so....

[Red Hook]

It would seem that at least one attorney on this forum knows the definition

of liable. Thank you Mr. Zaid.

 

He probably knows how to spell it too!

 

And thus is proved MK's first law of economics: If you have a major investment in a grading company, you'll defend it to the end, regardless of the writing on the wall.

 

Wake up, TOOL!

 

 

Regards, Red