San Diego tale of woe

[spider9698]

I'd like to get the forum's opinion on what to do. As an introduction, I am keeping peoples names out of this for now.

I brought a handful of items that I considered selling to the San Diego show. A friend (and fellow board member) offered to display my items for sale in his booth. On Preview Night, I dropped off the art and we went over prices. Unfortunately there was a misunderstanding and one of the pieces was grossly underpriced (by a factor of 10!!!). Needless to say,the piece quickly sold to a collector/dealer. When I swung by the booth and was told what the piece sold for, I informed them that there was a mistake. My friend managed to track down the individual in question and we attempted to purchase the piece back. When the buyer refused, I decided to take the high rode and told him that I would be willing to throw in a four figure piece of art as a good faith measure. He later informed me that the art had subsequently traded hands and the person in question wanted the art and several thousand dollars to get my piece back. I now felt blackmailed and refused to do the deal. My understanding is that several people in San Diego heard about my misfortune and felt that the right thing to do was return the piece (a mistake is a mistake). However, he felt like he made a major score and was going to cash in in a major way. I'm a big believer in Karma and in doing the right thing. This hobby is meant to be fun and enjoyable but after seeing the dark side of humanity this past weekend I am having my doubts.

Thoughts?

[jjeanius]

Maybe it's just me, but I think your friend is more at fault than the customer. He marked the art at a set price, and the customer bought it at the advertised price. Sure, he could "do the right thing" and return the art to you...but it's not his responsibility to point out if a price might be low...it's a dealer's responsibility to price items accurately. Dealers certainly don't offer money back when they overcharge for an item, so it's unrealistic to expect someone to return the art if it's underpriced...whether or not it's an accident is irrelevant IMO. Anyway, just my two cents...

[*paull*]

Sorry to hear about what happened. I would definitely vent my wrath at that dealer "friend".

[krazy_kenny1]

Maybe it's just me, but I think your friend is more at fault than the customer. He marked the art at a set price, and the customer bought it at the advertised price. Sure, he could "do the right thing" and return the art to you...but it's not his responsibility to point out if a price might be low...it's a dealer's responsibility to price items accurately. Dealers certainly don't offer money back when they overcharge for an item, so it's unrealistic to expect someone to return the art if it's underpriced...whether or not it's an accident is irrelevant IMO. Anyway, just my two cents...

This is pretty much how I feel about it. If I was the one who had bought the art, I would give it back instead of arguing politics in order to keep something that was obviously priced incorrectly. Still, if it's anyone's fault, it's the dealer's. The buyer simply paid what was asked for it.

[pinupcartoonguy]

This is not legal advice, but when I was in law school, I remember reading a case that was very similar that involved a baseball card. I want to say it was Nolan Ryan card that was missing a zero or two in the price.

 

If recall correctly, the seller who mispriced the case did have recourse again the buyer, who knew, or had reason to know, the card was mispriced.

 

If the a significant amount of money is involved, and it sound like it is, I'd consult an attorney.

 

Maybe Chris can chime in.

[Bronty]

This is not legal advice, but when I was in law school, I remember reading a case that was very similar that involved a baseball card. I want to say it was Nolan Ryan card that was missing a zero or two in the price.

 

 

I'm not even a lawyer and I've heard of that case. It was an $1100 card that an employee mistakenly thought was $11.00.

 

So, yeah, that's probably good advice... worth consulting a lawyer.

[spider9698]

Any lawyers looking for some business?? PM me.

Stephen

[cbac]

I heard a few stories of behaviour at SDCC, and there really is two sides, one side saying hard luck, it's all fair and square or the other side saying to do the right thing.

 

When I thought about it I just thought you'd hope people would treat others the way they would like to be treated if the same thing happened to them.

 

I also believe that good karma does play a part in the hobby.

[pkveronese]

Isn't this you/your friend's fault? The buyer paid what was asked. I don't mean to sound coarse here, however, as I hate that this happened to you and your friend.

 

Do you have a written price list or was there a verbal communication of the prices?

[jjeanius]

The baseball card scenario isn't even wholly applicable in this case. In that situation, the card was clearly priced at "1100", but the employee misread the sticker as "11.00". NOT the same situation, as the card was priced correctly.

[Jesusjon]

First off, I'm sorry to hear about your troubles. The truth is that while the piece was mispriced by a factor of 10, a legal battle to reclaim the piece may not be cost effective either.

 

However, perhaps the threat of legal action alone will prompt the current owner of the piece to "do the right thing"... Don't know what that person's side of it is either, but imagine a piece you recently acquired being in dispute because the person before you purchased it while it was mispriced. It's a shame all around.

 

I too have heard multiple tales of woe come out of this SDCC!! Art being grabbed out of people's hands by another prospective buyer even!! It's really a shame to me that this is as much a part of our hobby as the good.

[pkveronese]

Was there another piece that was quite similiar to the one in question on sale via your friend (as alluded to on comicart-L) at the time this piece was sold?

[delekkerste]

As far as I can see, there are two options:

 

1. Legal action (and, not being a lawyer, I'm not sure what recourse you have here)

 

2. Public humiliation. Out the name of this unscrupulous person and hopefully he will be shamed into doing the right thing.

 

There's a difference between underpricing and mispricing, and a factor of 10 is such a gross mispricing (by many multiples) that the buyer was undoubtedly aware of and did not bring to your friend's attention for the sake of quick and undeserved profit. That is just poor form all around; I hope this person has enough self-respect and honor to not be a low-down, dirty scumbag and do the right thing here. Your offer to refund his money and throw in a 4-figure piece is more than fair.

[spider9698]

I appreciate everyone's responses. The names have been omitted because I truly don't know what to do and do not want to make this a messy situation. If I am overreacting then I hope people will let me know and I will go lick my wounds in a corner. I felt that I have been more than fair in trying to remedy the situation so it is win-win for all involved. I guessed incorrectly. Once again, thanks for all your opinions, it has allowed me to view the situation in a different light.

[r100comics]

Spider, I don't think anyone can say you have over-reacted. In fact you are handling this far more calmly than I would. This must be absolutely sickening for you, after all this is supposed to be a fun hobby.

 

I believe the buyer has a moral, but not a legal obligation to return this item to you. If the buyer were an "expert" making a low-ball appraisal to deliberately mislead a seller, it would be different. But he made a purchase of an item at the full ticketed price.

 

Unfortunately, the fault lies with your friend who sadly may have been a little out of his depth and should have known the correct level to price this at.

 

I firmly believe in karma, and the buyer will not profit from this in the long run. I hope he listens to his conscience and returns the item for a refund, and an awful lot of goodwill in the process !

 

Where can the fun be for him in making a great score like this, in the knowledge it was at the expense of someone else's misery ?

[Sharkey]

I appreciate everyone's responses. The names have been omitted because I truly don't know what to do and do not want to make this a messy situation. If I am overreacting then I hope people will let me know and I will go lick my wounds in a corner. I felt that I have been more than fair in trying to remedy the situation so it is win-win for all involved. I guessed incorrectly. Once again, thanks for all your opinions, it has allowed me to view the situation in a different light.

 

 

Stephen, you're not over-reacting. And my apologies on a situation that turned what should have been an enjoyable weekend into a stress-fest -- for you AND your dealer friend.

 

Granted, the situation is messy because:

 

1. A friend of yours mispriced the piece -- I'm sure he feels terrible about it.

 

2. A collector/dealer grabbed the underpriced piece and figured he'd make a quick buck, which he did. (I agree with Gene about him HAVING to know it was mis-priced. I mean, if I walked into a Con and saw a Ditko Spidey page for $1200 instead of $12,000, I'd think it must be too good to be true and would probably ask if the price was correct -- but if I bought it and later found out the guy who sold it in fact did make a mistake 10-fold, as disappointed as I might be, I'd have no choice in my mind but return it. There's no way a person with a conscience would keep it!)

 

3. That collector/dealer person then flipped it to somebody else who may really love the piece or who may be looking to flip it yet again -- we don't really know.

 

Now, what SHOULD happen is that you and yoru dealer friend should explain what happened to both parties (which you've done) and they should get together, re-piece the deal, and everybody gets back what they originally put into it, and that's that.

 

But, if the flipping situation was more than just cash -- maybe some trade elements thrown in which the dealer might have subsequently traded and sold, well, that's another level of complication. I don't know the details of their deal and that's where this could have become really messy -- maybe the money he got is already spent, or maybe he got partial trade and the trade pieces are gone. If that's the case, this could be extremly complicated to try to reverse the events and get back to the original situation. But they should try.

 

 

HOWEVER, if it's just a case of them making a cash transaction and holding the piece for ransom on you, well they just plain SUCK as human beings. If what you've got are some unethical greedy bastiches saying "tough titties, I paid what was on the piece, and now it's in somebody else's hands" and even that third party person doesn't want to give it up without additional compensation, than that's just plain dispicable -- and I hope you will out these unscrupulous collectors if that is in fact the situation. If anything, I'd want you to PM me their names so I know who they are in case I ever deal with them in the future -- or avoid dealing with them.

 

I hope it's the simpler scenario of cash deals and the first party will get over their initial greed and excitement of making a quick buck and the second will realize that they got the piece from someone who bought it under the pretense of a mistaken price, and will do the right thing also, and you get the piece back.

 

Keep us posted, Stephen.

[Durden08]

Good post Rhino. I would add, if the situation doesn't get worked out for spider in the end, I think he should let the boards know what the actual piece of artwork it is. I'm sure many people would never consider buying it if it came up for sale again. No one wants to see someone profit from the misfortune of others.

 

Hope it works out for you spider

[pkveronese]

Good post Rhino. I would add, if the situation doesn't get worked out for spider in the end, I think he should let the boards know what the actual piece of artwork it is. I'm sure many people would never consider buying it if it came up for sale again. No one wants to see someone profit from the misfortune of others.

 

Hope it works out for you spider

 

I agree with this - knowing the piece of artwork would be as good (if not better) than knowing the individuals involved.

 

I just want to re-iterate what some others on the board have said - Spider, you are handling this with extreme calm. We've seen too many issues/actions of less importance that were handled far worse, and you are handling this like a gentleman - my respect goes out to you for that.

[Jesusjon]

I firmly believe in karma, and the buyer will not profit from this in the long run.

 

You know, I too believe in karma -- but I feel many people in this hobby successfully profit both short term and long term from their misdeeds. Maybe karma catches up with them in some other way in their life. That's what I think many of us like to believe anyway.

[jjeanius]

Well, I got hosed pretty badly at con, too (not nearly to this degree)...so I'm certainly rooting for karma to even the score...for both of us :-)