Heroes TV show

[Korvac Saga]

Burying a guy who "can't die" was so stupid, it's obvious that Adam will eventually escape and only be more mad and dangerous next time. He should have just lopped off his head or zapped him back a few thousand years....

 

While it was stupid, it seemed to be in the spirit of the moment.. I.E. He buried him where his father was buried. Agreed that he should eventually be able to dig himself out due to his healing factor. However, zapping him back a few thousand years could seriously change history.

 

 

Hiro could have transported Adam to the future where the virus had been released, adam could could have hooked up with Peter Petrelli's pissed off girlfriend and their offspring could have been the next supervillian: The Brow, the man with the regenerating unibrow!

[Moondog]

Damn those greedy writers

 

 

We just want to be paid for our work. Right now a lot of money is being made without any compensation to the people who did all the work. Damn those greedy studios.

 

-- Joanna

 

I'm sorry but to say writers are paid substantially for their work would be an understatement. The strike is about residuals as you are well aware but people tend to ignore that the AMPTP pays writers a salary for each -script. I have seen those numbers and lets just say one television -script is the average to what most people here would earn over a year. That’s not including residuals and the percentage they make each time that episode is repeated or shown abroad.

 

On the subject of these residuals which are the reason for the strike. Back in the real world if I do a job I get paid for it once. Why should writers be a special exception? If I for example sold high quality plates to restaurants, would I deserve a percentage each time restaurant customers ate from them? Without my plates they would be eating off the floor after all. Does the cow deserve 2.5% percentage of what the burger flipper makes because without the cow…

 

How about the other production crew who by the writers own admission are paid a lot less than themselves. Im talking about the cameraman, the hair stylist, the lighting woman, the stunt people, the editors, secretary, makeup, stage, props, effects, extras, sound, engineers, etc. Because of the writers these people are not being paid. Not everyone in Hollywood is a actor or director.

 

Speaking of actors and directors, their unions also have contracts and those expire in June 2008. Now if the writers get their way then those two guilds will want the same. If all three get what they want it will mean cheaper production values, less action, worse effects, smaller casts and of course more expensive DVDs. The counter argument is that the studio’s and networks make a huge profit but in reality that is why they are there, to make money. They are not doing it because they enjoy it. If the writers get their way it will come from the production and not from the already shrinking profit margins.

 

I find the whole strike culture to be absurd in this day and age. Their saying if we don’t get what we want then we’ll throw a childhood tantrum. Truth is if I don’t get what I want I go and find another job. I suggest the writers do the same.

 

Fox:

 

Unless one is a creator of intellectual properties, I find it difficult to believe that one could understand how a creator feels about having his work exploited - and to not share in that revenue.

 

I believe your plate/restaurant analogy is ridiculous. To follow your train of thought it wouldn't be fair to almost anyone for any reason to consume or use anything.

 

I don't mean to say your basic argument isn't sound, it's just that your examples tend to weaken - not strengthen - your position.

 

I also agree with your assessment that "a strike culture" is absurd, but the fall of unions has led to our being a debtor nation as we import more and more goods from overseas. The big companies have busted the unions by using China, Mexico, Brazil, and other countries as their leverage.

 

Sorry if this got heavy, not my intention. It's just that DC waited until Martin Nodell was dead to green light a GL film. Now they don't have to worry about sharing any profits with him or his family - and that's really a sore point with me.

 

--Gary

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Raphael]

there should be a seperate thread for this debate.

 

i'd love to read it, as long as it doesnt get too heated

[Joanna]

Don't worry, I'm not going to get in a heated debate. I'm a member of the WGA (and obviously disagree with nearly everything stated), but this isn't the place to get into all that.

 

-- Joanna

[Raphael]

soooo back onto Heroes . . .

 

anyone have any idea when we might be seeing Heroes again?

[Ares]

When the writers cave in?

[Ares]

soooo back onto Heroes . . .

 

anyone have any idea when we might be seeing Heroes again?

Was it ever stated Nathan was dead?

The news just said he was shot!

[piper]

soooo back onto Heroes . . .

 

anyone have any idea when we might be seeing Heroes again?

Was it ever stated Nathan was dead?

The news just said he was shot!

 

nothing an infusion of blood wouldn't fix right?

[Anfield Fox]

Damn those greedy writers

 

 

We just want to be paid for our work. Right now a lot of money is being made without any compensation to the people who did all the work. Damn those greedy studios.

 

-- Joanna

 

I'm sorry but to say writers are paid substantially for their work would be an understatement. The strike is about residuals as you are well aware but people tend to ignore that the AMPTP pays writers a salary for each -script. I have seen those numbers and lets just say one television -script is the average to what most people here would earn over a year. That’s not including residuals and the percentage they make each time that episode is repeated or shown abroad.

 

On the subject of these residuals which are the reason for the strike. Back in the real world if I do a job I get paid for it once. Why should writers be a special exception? If I for example sold high quality plates to restaurants, would I deserve a percentage each time restaurant customers ate from them? Without my plates they would be eating off the floor after all. Does the cow deserve 2.5% percentage of what the burger flipper makes because without the cow…

 

How about the other production crew who by the writers own admission are paid a lot less than themselves. Im talking about the cameraman, the hair stylist, the lighting woman, the stunt people, the editors, secretary, makeup, stage, props, effects, extras, sound, engineers, etc. Because of the writers these people are not being paid. Not everyone in Hollywood is a actor or director.

 

Speaking of actors and directors, their unions also have contracts and those expire in June 2008. Now if the writers get their way then those two guilds will want the same. If all three get what they want it will mean cheaper production values, less action, worse effects, smaller casts and of course more expensive DVDs. The counter argument is that the studio’s and networks make a huge profit but in reality that is why they are there, to make money. They are not doing it because they enjoy it. If the writers get their way it will come from the production and not from the already shrinking profit margins.

 

I find the whole strike culture to be absurd in this day and age. Their saying if we don’t get what we want then we’ll throw a childhood tantrum. Truth is if I don’t get what I want I go and find another job. I suggest the writers do the same.

 

Fox:

 

Unless one is a creator of intellectual properties, I find it difficult to believe that one could understand how a creator feels about having his work exploited - and to not share in that revenue.

 

I believe your plate/restaurant analogy is ridiculous. To follow your train of thought it wouldn't be fair to almost anyone for any reason to consume or use anything.

 

I don't mean to say your basic argument isn't sound, it's just that your examples tend to weaken - not strengthen - your position.

 

I also agree with your assessment that "a strike culture" is absurd, but the fall of unions has led to our being a debtor nation as we import more and more goods from overseas. The big companies have busted the unions by using China, Mexico, Brazil, and other countries as their leverage.

 

Sorry if this got heavy, not my intention. It's just that DC waited until Martin Nodell was dead to green light a GL film. Now they don't have to worry about sharing any profits with him or his family - and that's really a sore point with me.

 

--Gary

 

 

Gary, the plate/restaurant analogy was meant to be ridiculous! Same with the cow, that was the whole point. Of course i wouldn't deserve a percentage, neither would the cow but to me at least the WGA demands are just as ridiculous.

 

Joanna, even though you disagree with everything i have said im entitled to my opinion. I hope you don't take it personally because that was not the intent.

[Joanna]

Nothing personal (just my livelihood) but at least rant about the real facts:

 

[Anfield Fox]

I've seen that video on youtube. Simple propaganda. Interesting how it fails to mention that writers are paid a lot of money for the work they do. A lot of people who support the strike are oblivious to that fact. Writers get paid for the work they do like everyone else (and paid extremely well) but want more. I can't find the last WGA contract but there is a PDF file which is something along the lines of $61,000 per episode + 15% each time it's repeated and yet more for foreign broadcasts. Those numbers aren't exact but close enough.

 

Your livelihood? That's just the thing. On the office 102 production crew members are out of work because FOUR staff writers are striking. How are those 4 more important than the other 102? My sister in law hasn't been paid for two weeks, it's not just the writers this effects. Eva Longoria gave writers pizza at the picket line to show her support and she was heckled and abused. Great bunch of people those writers. Someone crosses the picket because they want to earn their livelihood they will get abused, singled out and mocked.

[JLA_ALL_THE_WAY]

Can't believe I'm saying this, but I was increasingly disappointed with season 2. I tried to be patient & wait for the payoffs (a la last season), but the writing is just getting worse and worse. Just about every hero has gone way out of character (for the sake of conflict, I imagine), and it's getting downright annoying:

 

Oooh, we need a character to rebel against another (even after all the they went through together last season) cuz.....unjustified conflict will still be interesting?

Oooh, have one star battle another star...again...removing any intelligence they're supposed to have, so they can make stupid hardly-believable choices that will smoothly(?) progress that particular storyline?

 

Is it too much to ask for a more intelligent show? Or is action & super-powers supposed to be enough?

 

Sorry, but season 3 is starting to look more & more like a "wait for the dvd" decision to me.

 

Rick

[Joanna]

Interesting how it fails to mention that writers are paid a lot of money for the work they do. A lot of people who support the strike are oblivious to that fact. Writers get paid for the work they do like everyone else (and paid extremely well) but want more. I can't find the last WGA contract but there is a PDF file which is something along the lines of $61,000 per episode + 15% each time it's repeated and yet more for foreign broadcasts. Those numbers aren't exact but close enough.

 

Those numbers are wrong and not "close enough". $61,000 for a movie, perhaps, but not TV. And don't assume everyone is writing hour drama. Or everyone is writing network. Or everyone is writing solo (as opposed to writing partners who have to share every check). Writers aren't the ones who get rich in TV and movies unless they become show runners or win an Oscar.

 

Argh, I said I wouldn't get into this. I'm stopping now before I get too ticked off. Instead, I'll roll around in my jar of pennies like the wealthy mogul I am.

 

-- Joanna

[Ijiwaru Sensei]

Can't believe I'm saying this, but I was increasingly disappointed with season 2. I tried to be patient & wait for the payoffs (a la last season), but the writing is just getting worse and worse. Just about every hero has gone way out of character (for the sake of conflict, I imagine), and it's getting downright annoying:

 

Oooh, we need a character to rebel against another (even after all the they went through together last season) cuz.....unjustified conflict will still be interesting?

Oooh, have one star battle another star...again...removing any intelligence they're supposed to have, so they can make stupid hardly-believable choices that will smoothly(?) progress that particular storyline?

 

Is it too much to ask for a more intelligent show? Or is action & super-powers supposed to be enough?

 

Sorry, but season 3 is starting to look more & more like a "wait for the dvd" decision to me.

 

Rick

 

I tend to agree.

 

Another shortcoming of the writing is the depiction of Japanese culture. Too often it seems like nothing more than American culture dressed up in Japanese garb--proclamations of love, public displays of affection, even a coffin in a Japanese graveyard.

[sckao]

I've seen that video on youtube. Simple propaganda. Interesting how it fails to mention that writers are paid a lot of money for the work they do. A lot of people who support the strike are oblivious to that fact. Writers get paid for the work they do like everyone else (and paid extremely well) but want more. I can't find the last WGA contract but there is a PDF file which is something along the lines of $61,000 per episode + 15% each time it's repeated and yet more for foreign broadcasts. Those numbers aren't exact but close enough.

 

Your livelihood? That's just the thing. On the office 102 production crew members are out of work because FOUR staff writers are striking. How are those 4 more important than the other 102? My sister in law hasn't been paid for two weeks, it's not just the writers this effects. Eva Longoria gave writers pizza at the picket line to show her support and she was heckled and abused. Great bunch of people those writers. Someone crosses the picket because they want to earn their livelihood they will get abused, singled out and mocked.

 

http://www.wga.org/subpage_member.aspx?id=2628

 

Most WGA writers earn middle class wages. A typical WGA member makes approximately $62,000 a year if you average earnings over a five-year period.

 

That's not PER EPISODE... That's averaged out per year over a 5 year period. Still not too bad, but hardly a "lot of money" if you live in California.

 

By your own example, those 4 writers are clearly more important because the production CANNOT CURRENTLY continue without them. If they were easily replaceable, they would be. I don't think you are helping your argument there. Yes, a lot of other people are being affected. That's unfortunate. Everyone's important and contributes to the end product. Some people, however, are essential.

 

Correlating this to the comic book world, if you were to object to writers/artists receiving residuals for new media, I'm not sure that would be a popular position.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Anfield Fox]

I've seen that video on youtube. Simple propaganda. Interesting how it fails to mention that writers are paid a lot of money for the work they do. A lot of people who support the strike are oblivious to that fact. Writers get paid for the work they do like everyone else (and paid extremely well) but want more. I can't find the last WGA contract but there is a PDF file which is something along the lines of $61,000 per episode + 15% each time it's repeated and yet more for foreign broadcasts. Those numbers aren't exact but close enough.

 

Your livelihood? That's just the thing. On the office 102 production crew members are out of work because FOUR staff writers are striking. How are those 4 more important than the other 102? My sister in law hasn't been paid for two weeks, it's not just the writers this effects. Eva Longoria gave writers pizza at the picket line to show her support and she was heckled and abused. Great bunch of people those writers. Someone crosses the picket because they want to earn their livelihood they will get abused, singled out and mocked.

 

http://www.wga.org/subpage_member.aspx?id=2628

 

Most WGA writers earn middle class wages. A typical WGA member makes approximately $62,000 a year if you average earnings over a five-year period.

 

That's not PER EPISODE... That's averaged out per year over a 5 year period. Still not too bad, but hardly a "lot of money" if you live in California.

 

By your own example, those 4 writers are clearly more important because the production CANNOT CURRENTLY continue without them. If they were easily replaceable, they would be. I don't think you are helping your argument there. Yes, a lot of other people are being affected. That's unfortunate. Everyone's important and contributes to the end product. Some people, however, are essential.

 

Correlating this to the comic book world, if you were to object to writers/artists receiving residuals for new media, I'm not sure that would be a popular position.

 

 

I have seen the last contract in a PDF file on the WGA site. This was about a month before the strike started. You would have to take my word for it because i can no longer find it. I can only assume they took it down given all the attention their site is getting. In it the contract gave a breakdown of what each writer is paid. Everything from a movie to a 5 minute broadcast. A 45 minute episode with 15 minute commercials on a network was something like $61,000 + residuals + a high percentage each time it's repeated + yet more from foreign broadcasts. Creators are also paid each time their show or movie is on regardless of writing it. Joanna says my numbers are wrong, fair enough. I no longer have the proof.

 

The recent Lost mobisodes from Verizon have the writers being paid a flat $800 for each 2 minute episode. If you haven't seen them they are awful. $800 for twenty minutes work. I have the article for that if you would like to see it.

 

If the WGA are saying a writer on average earns $62,000 a year then that is because the bad writers on average they only write one or two scripts a year. Back in the real world if i want more money i do more work. What do the writers who are not in demand do in the 300 days of the year their not writing? Get a second job already.

 

You say that production can't continue without the writers and that they are more important than the other people, well that's what a strike is. They form a picket outside places of work and intimidate anyone who dares cross it. Would you risk being abused, spat at and heckled by a large crowd all to go to work? Striking on picket lines is what thugs do (and that's not writers but anyone who does it).

 

Again this has nothing to do with people writing comics or books for that matter. The WGA are dealing with the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers. This is my last post on this because i have clearly upset a couple of people but regardless of what anyone says im entitled to free speech and most of all my opinion.

[binarysunrise]

Interesting how it fails to mention that writers are paid a lot of money for the work they do. A lot of people who support the strike are oblivious to that fact. Writers get paid for the work they do like everyone else (and paid extremely well) but want more. I can't find the last WGA contract but there is a PDF file which is something along the lines of $61,000 per episode + 15% each time it's repeated and yet more for foreign broadcasts. Those numbers aren't exact but close enough.

 

Those numbers are wrong and not "close enough". $61,000 for a movie, perhaps, but not TV. And don't assume everyone is writing hour drama. Or everyone is writing network. Or everyone is writing solo (as opposed to writing partners who have to share every check). Writers aren't the ones who get rich in TV and movies unless they become show runners or win an Oscar.

 

Argh, I said I wouldn't get into this. I'm stopping now before I get too ticked off. Instead, I'll roll around in my jar of pennies like the wealthy mogul I am.

 

-- Joanna

 

Well, I'll put in my 2 cents, after following much of the strike, and being more informed about this industry than I ever was before (a favorite site is at http://unitedhollywood.blogspot.com/ )

 

From what I have read, the average writer makes $60K a year. That is a great salary from my point of view, but pretty average from everyone elses And that number is an average - I doubt many writers have work 365 days a year. And a lot of the issue is about residuals, which allow writers to keep their career between gigs.

 

I think the main point is that the pay for writers has not kept up with the industry growth, and they are being kept out of increasing profits being made off of their creative work.

 

It is not so much a question of "Why should writers get paid more when other people are getting paid less?" but a question of "Why should the movie/tv industry make more and more money off of the works of writers and actors?"

[binarysunrise]

soooo back onto Heroes . . .

 

anyone have any idea when we might be seeing Heroes again?

Was it ever stated Nathan was dead?

The news just said he was shot!

 

nothing an infusion of blood wouldn't fix right?

 

I wonder how long you can be dead for and have the blood still work? Will Abraham Lincoln be season three's new hero?

[jimm94]

soooo back onto Heroes . . .

 

anyone have any idea when we might be seeing Heroes again?

Was it ever stated Nathan was dead?

The news just said he was shot!

 

They didn't use the word dead, but the reporter referred to the shooter as an "assassin".

[jimm94]

There is a lot of good information about the strike on the blog of comics writer/historian and WGA member Mark Evanier:

 

www.newsfromme.com

 

Obviously Mark is in support of the strike, but I think he does a good job of presenting real facts surrounding the situation.

 

Joanna - I hope everything turns out favorably for you and your fellow union members. (thumbs u