Do people listing on Comiclink even care about GPA? 0

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

GPA provides insight to books that trade frequently, on some books they are completely USELESS.

 

How to do you come up with a price on a book you haven't offered before, or don't have any sales information on from show cons or any other venues?

`

 

Its a Shot in the dark in instances like that. Most dealers' solution is to assign some insane multiple for the book and see where it goes from there.

 

As for GPA, let me offer my highest recommendation. I've saved thousands since subscribing. Its a useful tool, much more useful then the Guide in 90% of my purchases. It isn't perfect (page quality notations would be nice), but its the best $6.95 you can spend if you buy certified material with regularity.

[rodan57]

I mean, honestly, do you guys that list on Comiclink even care about GPA.

 

I find their lack of back cover scans considerably more troubling than their pricing.

 

I agree. Give me more information and take out the guess work.

 

Let me see all of the book and then let me decide the relationship of GPA to what I view in front of me. I'd pass on fewer books that way.

[BronzeBruce13]

Bob,

 

You clearly appear to me to be one of the most organized/informed dealers in regards to following the market closely and maintaining various databases. Thus, I doubt you need GPA often to help price a book. Others, that have less time to follow the market as closely, or don't posses enough personal data of their own obviously find (or "would" find) GPA very useful at determining a "starting point" before developing an ask price based on their own needs/ideas as well .

 

Unlike yourself, I would bet most Dealers fall into this category and even those that don't currently use the service would find some benefit doing so. Those that sell frequently and don't use GPA might not get "as much" as they could have in some instances simply by not being aware of market movement and trends. I speak as one that has been the recipient of such opportunities on occasion. I'm not commenting on the venue of the sale, but the price developed by the owner of the book.

 

I'm not going to claim the equation is equal, but surely there are a significant amount of examples as cited above as well as instances in which "over GPA" average/record sales are obtained.

 

Saying GPA is completely useless in some cases is perhaps overstated a bit. On thinly traded books, it can be far less useful than heavily traded ones, but not any less so than not having any data to consider. In those instances, a potential buyer (of a presumed expensive book) would be wise to do as much research as he can, and not only about past sales. Current demand, census info etc. would be among the other information I would seek.

 

Making a decision based only on GPA would be unwise in that case but does not make the service "useless" IMHO. After all, the lack of data "is" useful information. It lets the potential buyer know that the item is thinly traded and not many recorded sales exist. If anyone feels that is not usefull to someone that did not know otherwise and would have nothing but the seller's perspective as an alternative… I would disagree. It would tell me to do more homework and seek input from those I trust and respect before making a move.

 

 

Do me a favor, setup and become a dealer and keep good records. I have just as many recorded sales of books of certain issues to determine my prices. And quite frankly if I gave my numbers to GPA some of those "Averages" might move up. GPA provides insight to books that trade frequently, on some books they are completely USELESS.

[Wally's Comics]

Thing about it, if you can charge it and get it - why not price it through the nose???

 

If people don't want to buy it at that price it won't sell and it will be marked down

if the seller is inclined.

 

Greed, it's what's for breakfast!

 

 

[BronzeBruce13]

Josh.

 

There are indeed record sales (over GPA) being made often on ComicLink, Pedigree, Metro, HighGrade, etc.… BUT also Ebay. Its the nature of the market… most books will have many record sales, record lows, dip and spike periods over their CGC lifetime (7 years so far) and they take place in no one venue. The particular venue is also not the one and only determining factor regarding the record sale either. It might have fared just as well (or close to) on several if not all the venues given the opportunity. Anyone claiming that ONLY record sales take place on their venue is kidding themselves.

 

Its clearly advantageous for those NOT reporting their data to GPA to focus on, and speak ONLY about their "record sales". If one glosses over the many "lower sales", "books that have sat and sat at FMV" (based on GPA data), and books that "never sold" at all... isn't that creating a "misleading" impression of the venue's ability and past performance overall? Furthermore, I highly doubt "all/most" of any consignment site's "lower sales" are the result of the need for a "quick sale"... but it does sound better.

 

My guess is if GPA had ALL the data from any particular site (not just the "record sales" ) the likely result would be GPA's data NOT moving nearly "as much" as the owner's of said sites would like us to believe. Do I think the numbers on keys in particular would move up… yes, but not more than 10-15% in most cases and some would go down too.

 

Be assured there are indeed "Under GPA Record/Average" sales being obtained off all websites (even yours), but clearly not as often as Ebay.

 

 

There are countless examples of items selling on ComicLink for higher than the average GPA numbers (the vast majority of which are comprised of eBay and Heritage sales) or even higher than the book just recently sold for in another venue. Of course, there are also examples where a seller is willing to accept less than GPA numbers for a quick sale (or doesn't know that a book can sell for more than their list price) and the astute buyer can obtain a relative "bargain." Alternatively, an uninformed or greedy seller on ComicLink or anywhere else may overprice a book that is not scarce and it is therefore a pitfall for any buyer that is going to resell in the short-term.

 

 

Of course... c'mon you can't just report "advertisement/promotion worthy sales". If you believe your site offers sellers the best results, put it ALL out there like Doug does.

 

I actually recently offered to start supplying some realized prices (selected higher dollar sales) to GPA and they did not appear to be interested

 

ps... BTW props to you on enhancing your site since Pedigree arrived instead of choosing to continue with a legal battle. You've done a good job and I enjoy the buying opportunities and experience at CL now, better than I did before Pedigree arrived. Sometimes competiton benefits us all even if its more work/effort.

[ronm3-migration]

I just sold a ton of Batman books a few months ago on Comiclink. Some went way under GPA and some went way over but most went near the average GPA price.

I offered my sales data to GPA but they didnt want it.

[blazingbob]

Let's use my Personal FF Collection as an example.

 

If I had used GPAnalysis as an assistant to my pricing these books I would have left THOUSANDS on the table.

 

I went with my gut, my sales experience, my intimate knowledge of the FF market and the time and effort it took to find these issues. Than I priced my books. And with the exception of a very few I did very very well. I didn't need GPA to help me sell my books. Almost all are gone, I don't look back and go I sold that too cheap. Some people made some money and a lot of nice FF's are now in the marketplace.

 

Maybe useless is too strong a word. Maybe not always applicable would be better. Yes it gives the buyer "information" and I'm all about the buyer having information. However, I am not going to sit back and be silent when a buyer quotes GPA numbers and thinks he is the only one WHO KNOWS what a book should sell for. Same goes with people who quote the overstreet price guide.

[whomerjay]

 

If I had used GPAnalysis as an assistant to my pricing these books I would have left THOUSANDS on the table.

 

 

"as an assistant"

 

So, are you saying that you did not consider GPA AT ALL when determining price of any of these books? Given it is a very good indicator of what a book will sell for when the book has numerous documented sales in a given grade, I'd be surprised if you didn't. I'd also be surprised if you didn't subscribe to GPA and access it frequently.

 

GPA is what it is. It's a record of most sales of books. It's as valuable as your ability to interpret that data. Obviously there are instances, such as when there are a limited # of sales, or a recent event that affects demand, that limit the abiltiyof GPA to predict what a book will sell for.

 

I would imagine that some of your FFs where either among the highest graded or had special qualities (maybe PQ or QP) that would make GPA a poor predictor of their sale price.

[benz]

If I had followed GPA when I bought my Avengers 1 DR 7.5 pedigree from Bob (GPA then $1900 price $2300) then I would not have bought it. I just asked Bob for some discount and lower price a little which he did. Now if you check GPA that book is now $2600. Its still in my collection. Just talk to Bob and ask for his best price if you want a book.

[blazingbob]

Let's all be clear on this.

 

I don't subscribe or use them regularly.

 

I'll listen when a collector quotes GPA but remind them that I also have sales data to pull prices from.

 

I did not use GPA to price my FF collection and no many of them were not the Highest graded copies. I priced them based on the fact that there wasn't a large collection of FF's offered to the market in a long time.

 

I don't need GPA to gauge market trends. Besides it's historical in nature and could be out of date since the last reported sale. Did I need GPA to figure out AS #300's were hot? Or what I could price them for? No I did not.

 

You can get a sense of the market when "Everybody" and I mean "everybody" starts asking for a book. Or want lists in your system start showing up with the same books.

 

My database sales go back over 14 years. I've been around this business since 1973. Before GPA there was an Overstreet Price guide.

 

I've already stated that "Useless" was too strong a word, it's another "source" of pricing information if you want to use it. And I have many sources to pull pricing information from.

[Apotheosis]

I went with my gut, my sales experience,

 

You have to remember that for some of us this isn't our profession. It's harder for us to know everything that is happening with sales. If not for GPA how would I know prices realized for books I'm after? I can check ebay (the last 30 days anyway), comiclink recent, and heritage. That's about it. Certainly can't use OSPG. I like to be informed about what I buy and GPA at least helps. It let's me know what a book "could" be had for. I may pay more and often have to with my GA stuff, but at least I have some kind of reference. Is your knowledge better than GPA? Of course, but not all of us have the priveledge of your years of knowledge and the time it takes to learn it (your time comes from working in the industry).

 

Also, I understand your passion here, but the venom in some of your posts makes it hard to want to read the rest of your post and you have good info in there. Maybe a little less?

[blazingbob]

My venom is because I am tired of some posters who feel that

 

1). Books should be priced at their interpretation of "Fair".

 

2). The books should be priced at their buy it now price because it's not in their nature to negotiate.

 

3). High grade books should be sold at the minimum amount of profit. My time and my hard work isn't worth paying a profit for. The 75% of the collection that I'm never going to sell or schlep to shows for the next five years isn't their problem either.

[gpanalysis]

My venom is because I am tired of some posters who feel that

 

1). Books should be priced at their interpretation of "Fair".

 

2). The books should be priced at their buy it now price because it's not in their nature to negotiate.

 

3). High grade books should be sold at the minimum amount of profit. My time and my hard work isn't worth paying a profit for. The 75% of the collection that I'm never going to sell or schlep to shows for the next five years isn't their problem either.

 

I don't know how that has anything to do with GPA though Some people will use all kinds of arguments when they are dealing with anyone.

[whomerjay]

Let's all be clear on this.

 

I don't subscribe or use them regularly.

 

I'll listen when a collector quotes GPA but remind them that I also have sales data to pull prices from.

 

I am quite surprised by this. I am sure you have some data that most of us are not privy to, including sales among some BSD and collectors that don't get pub, and this allows you to judge the value of some fairly rare books more accurately. But I don't understand how you can ignore what must be a larger database of sales than all of your other resources combined. Plus the timely nature of these data will allow you not to miss the best price on more common books like ASM 300.

 

So if you counter someone's argument that GPA says such as such, if you'd don't know the GPA data how do you know your data are superior to those of GPA? It seems to me you would improve your competitive advantage if you knew the GPA database well and could identify those instances in which your data provides greater insight, allowing you to buy a book with too low a perceived value based on low GPA #s, and sell books at higher $ when GPA reflects to high a price. But you need to know the GPA data (not just mean prices, but # of sales, their date, and the variance) to do this.

 

From where I stand, the only rationale for your attitude on this is that you know your customers well and what they'll pay for certain books bought from you .

 

I understand the basis of your argument and essentially agree that people who use GPA to argue price are often misguided, but I feel you undervalue the GPA data.

[Apotheosis]

My venom is because I am tired of some posters who feel that

 

1). Books should be priced at their interpretation of "Fair".

 

Without GPA how do you think they would come up with a price? Overstreet? Which would be better... offers based of GPA or Overstreet?

 

2). The books should be priced at their buy it now price because it's not in their nature to negotiate.

 

You can't fault a buyer for that. We live in a society that has gotten away from haggling and as such most people only care about the actual sell price. Unfortunately comic books is a world where both sides collide and don't get along well.

 

3). High grade books should be sold at the minimum amount of profit. My time and my hard work isn't worth paying a profit for.

 

That's because people are cheap. Nobody's time is worth anything except their own. Yeah I get that in my job too.

 

The 75% of the collection that I'm never going to sell or schlep to shows for the next five years isn't their problem either.

 

It's really not. It's yours and a reason for your prices, but it's not their problem. Some people are smart enough to figure out that your overhead drives your prices, but most aren't. It's part of life. It's pointless to let those people get to you.

[tth2]

So, are you saying that you did not consider GPA AT ALL when determining price of any of these books?

I'm not sure GPA was even in existence when Bob sold his FFs, and even if it was, its database must have been pretty thin at the time.

 

Given it is a very good indicator of what a book will sell for when the book has numerous documented sales in a given grade, I'd be surprised if you didn't.

Given the grades of many of the FF issues that Bob sold, I'm sure at the time there were NOT "numerous documented sales" in those particular grades, and for some of the issues there probably still are not "numerous documented sales".

 

I would imagine that some of your FFs where either among the highest graded or had special qualities (maybe PQ or QP) that would make GPA a poor predictor of their sale price.

Exactly (to the extent GPA was even in existence at the time).

[esquirecomics]

I see books listed on there that aren't even the highest graded copies and yet the asking price is more than double of the highest graded copy on GPA!

 

Why is that?

 

I mean, honestly, do you guys that list on Comiclink even care about GPA.

 

Not to mention, the books that I look for aren't necessarily that expensive anyway. ESPECIALLY raw!

 

Most of the books I'm looking for could be picked up in NM for under $25 yet I see CGC graded ones with a GPA of about $60 in 9.6 and people are wanting over $250 on Comiclink whereas the GPA for 9.8's is around $125

 

GPA shows prices realized for sales that they have recorded. Currently, no ComicLink sales are reported to GPA and GPA also lacks retail sales from many other sources. Therefore, their numbers are incomplete, and collectors preaching them as gospel is inaccurate and misleading. One high profile example of is the sale of Hulk #1 CGC 9.0 with white pages which sold in a recent Mastro auction for $33,378 and was reported to GPA. In March 2005, a Hulk #1 in 9.0 with off-white to white pages (I think it is the same book before the page quality upgrade) was sold by a consignor on ComicLink for $50,000. So, what is it worth? Taking the GPA number only, a collector would conclude that it is only worth $33K. Taking the ComicLink number only, a collector would conclude that it is worth $50K. Knowing what it sold for in both places, a reasonable conclusion is that what it is worth depends on who is looking for the book at the time, the client base of the selling venue, the scarcity of the book, and what the buyer (and underbidder) is willing to spend to obtain it. If you are a seller, what the book is worth will also have to take into account, keeping in mind the above factors as well, the total commissions (buyer + seller) of the selling venue. What the seller nets = what the buyer ultimately pays for the item minus the sum of the buyer and seller commissions retained by the selling venue.

 

There are countless examples of items selling on ComicLink for higher than the average GPA numbers (the vast majority of which are comprised of eBay and Heritage sales) or even higher than the book just recently sold for in another venue. Of course, there are also examples where a seller is willing to accept less than GPA numbers for a quick sale (or doesn't know that a book can sell for more than their list price) and the astute buyer can obtain a relative "bargain." Alternatively, an uninformed or greedy seller on ComicLink or anywhere else may overprice a book that is not scarce and it is therefore a pitfall for any buyer that is going to resell in the short-term.

 

Josh Nathanson

www.comiclink.com

 

What's behind your decision not to supply sales data to GPA?

 

I actually recently offered to start supplying some realized prices (selected higher dollar sales) to GPA and they did not appear to be interested.

 

Thanks,

 

Josh Nathanson

www.comiclink.com

 

So what you are saying Josh is that you only wanted to cherry pick your sales for the best ones so you can continually appear in the top five list to promote your own self-interests rather than accomplish that on select occasions AND help provide additional market data across the board to further enable buyers (which includes both collectors and dealers) the ability to take that sales information into consideration?

 

I am happy to provide ALL market data to GPA, whether that enables me placement on the top five list, which it often does, or even bring down the GPA average for a book's sales, which it has done as well. Either way I find it helpful to know of past sales data, whether it is from GPA or from the listings - inaccurate as any of these may be - from old OS guides.

[blazingbob]

Amazing that when it comes to Self promotion I can think of no better person than yourself.

 

They're coming! They're Coming!

 

They're here! They're here!

[esquirecomics]

Oh there are preachers.

 

It's comes across in posts with statements like "Fairly priced".

 

The Subject of this thread is another example.

 

Why won't dealers price to GPA numbers? Because everybody wants a deal and will still ask for their standard discount. Nobody wants to pay guide either but they all want the dealer to pay them guide/guide + for their collection.

 

Buy for retail, sell for wholesale! I can see many of you graduated from Business school.

 

I'll answer for Josh on your question.

Why doesn't everybody post their sales to GPA? Hmmm, would business knowledge have something to do with it. Why would I communicate my pricing power to my competitors? Just because YOU won't pay the price doesn't mean someone else won't. And since I am in the business to make money why should I share that knowledge. So all you Part time "Collectors" can run around trying to buy the same stuff I am? Which many of you "Collectors" already are doing while claiming to be "Collectors". The CGC Selling thread is a perfect example of this. Throw a WTB post and watch the "Collectors" post.

 

I fail to understand your logic as to how providing your sales data to GPA will increase your competitors' ability to compete with you. For one thing, except for the top 5 list, there is no indication in the data as to the identity of the seller. And why bother listing any of your sales data on your site (although admitedly unlike many sites you only have a few listed)? This would seem to contradict your position. In any event, many dealers do list their sold books and the realized prices. Two of the biggest comic dealers in the world - Heritage and ebay - share their sales data with GPA. I doubt they would do so if they felt it would negatively impact their bottom line.

 

GPA is not telling anyone to set their prices by it, to buy a book at that price or anything else. It is simply data to use by both the seller and the buyer. And you are free to argue with anyone who raises GPA or the OS, which is far more likely, when they question your price as to why it is what it is. They can then choose to buy or not.

 

But the more data GPA possesses the more true to the actual market it reveals, and perhaps that is why some dealers are concerned.

[esquirecomics]

Amazing that when it comes to Self promotion I can think of no better person than yourself.

 

They're coming! They're Coming!

 

They're here! They're here!

 

And your problem with that is what exactly?

 

I am very good at promoting the businesses I am involved in, whether that be comics or law. I don't shy away from that. Sorry you have a problem with it.

 

But then again I share all my market data with GPA and yet it doesn't negatively impact my bottom line.