Panda2

Welp…a full grade tougher on the flash and the secret wars, but within 1 of all the others.  Surprised that the flash with the chunk out would score an 8. Also read and reread the cgc guide on staple rust and thought 7 was fair given the otherwise decent shape of the book. Still, will take the 7 after the last two brutal rounds.

On 4/30/2024 at 5:54 PM, silent06 said:

Based on GPA, I would say the delta between their FMV estimate and CGC's is roughly 40% to 50%, which is still under what I paid for the books considering market value at the time, shipping costs, buyers premium, etc. However, I have attached a screenshot for you to make your own assessment. The books referenced by CGC in the screenshot were both purchased as holdered and believed to be a grade of 9.8

Were these newsstand or tatooz versions? Or rather were they supposed to be?

The FMV they offered me is in line with the grade on the label - ie 9.8

Seems like things are moving - I received an email from them offering me 'fair market value' for the book in question - the number is actually ~around what GPA has for the book (averaging the 7 sales that are recorded in 2024) - but doesn't account for shipping costs, buyers premium, customs fees (yey Canada).   

On 4/27/2024 at 9:58 AM, zzutak said:

You mean this?  Yeah, that's a moisture stain if I've ever seen one. 

This!!!  

I just give up

On 4/26/2024 at 8:48 AM, CGC Mike said:

We expect to start making payments for claims very soon. Unfortunately, due to the nature of this issue, this process has taken significantly longer than we ever would have imagined, but we are almost there. We recognize your frustration and sincerely apologize for the delays. We can assure you that we are doing everything we can to make everyone impacted by this incident whole, as quickly as possible. 

Thanks Mike!

Deadlines are called deadlines for a reason

Crickets for me. I have one book sent to them in January?

Grades in but no emoji…Mike is torturing me here

Yes please count me in!

I also grew up in Toronto - with places like Phoenix comics, silver snail when it was on Queen, etc.  The landscape sure has changed over the years...

On 3/17/2024 at 11:46 AM, jcjames said:

A cheque for a couple hundred??

More like a CGC credit towards your next submission. 

This would be the worst case scenario, as I have never had a book graded by CGC - I just buy on the aftermarket as it is supposed to be safe

The fonts on the back of the labels is all wrong too...

Comparing them to a 9.6 and a 9.4 from my collection, I would say they look funky to me - the numbers are too wide to my eye

@CGC Mike the line “It is possible that some of the claims will be partly dispositioned by re-grading the book and returning it to the customer.” Worries me a bit. Is this to suggest I might get my fake 9.8 book back in a 9.2 slab with a cheque for a couple hundred bucks?  REALLY hoping this isn’t going to be the proposed solution….

Many thanks,
 

Panda2

Just in case anyone is wondering - I checked in with CGC customer service yesterday as it has been over a month since they confirmed the book I sent them had been tampered with (ASM 194) At the time they had said 'we will follow up with you'. 

The response yesterday: "At this time we do not have an update on this incident.  Please know that we are working on the next steps and will reach out as soon as we have an update."

So who knows what is going on behind the scenes, but certainly not in a rush to compensate those impacted.

In!!

On 2/15/2024 at 10:13 AM, MAR1979 said:

CGC's (IMHO totally weak) message is purchase from "reputable" dealers.  Keep in mind lack of reputable dealers is one of the reasons CGC was formed in the first place. To have their slabs level playing field for buyers and expand the hobby via that trust

According to CGC's newest message any dealer who has sold or every might unknowingly sell a tainted or "counterfeited" or tampered slab is not reputable.   Which means every Major Comic Seller or Auctioneer like ComicLink, ComicConnect, Worldwide Comics, Doug Sulipa, Greg Reece, Heritage, etc are not or at some future juncture will not be considered reputable by CGC.   If I was any of those entities I'd be rather unhappy with CGC

BTW the scammer was considered a reputable dealer by CGC until the scheme unraveled! Therefore purchasing from "reputable dealers" is NOT a solution and not safe and it never ever will be!

Yeah, it just seems like they are trying to wash their hands of it - to be aware that there are counterfeit versions of their product floating around in the marketplace, and to not own that seems irresponsible at best.  Given the data they have on all the submissions, I would think flagging those cert numbers to the community at large would be the least they could do.

Compensation notwithstanding, someone, be it CGC or @comicwiz, or someone else needs at some point to publish a list of cert #s associated with the scammers, or books that are known to have changed while keeping their cert number.   A black list of sorts.  While the rest of us plebes can do our best to verify the cert numbers using CGC's lookup, it would certainly be useful to have a list of submission numbers to steer clear of - or to have checked by CGC if you own one.  Just a thought...

On 2/9/2024 at 5:51 PM, comicwiz said:

FF 48 CGC 5.5 - UNLISTED  ⬇️

Reading about unlisted books from CGC's 350 impact list being treated "differently" is both perplexing and disappointing.

I thought it was time to share at least one I found, applying some details on the retrospective and current comparabiles analysis for books impacted by this "holder tampering." The purpose here is to use this unlisted book as an example of how one might arrive at a valuation suitable for redress and/or compensation.

While the serial number from the ComicVerify badge below is a sample, the data is live, and the screenshot takes you right to the sample appraisal and assessment, with notations, working links to diagrams, etc. Full disclosure, ComicVerify is an online appraisal service I began in March of 2022, along with an appraisal service called ToyVerify. It allowed me to streamline reports, and uses proprietary software I developed which helps accelerate the process of calculating comps for a desired valuation method, as well as offering real-time reporting, accessible in a digital format.

Certification: 0212408029 (NOT ON THE LIST)

Fantastic Four (1961) #48 CGC 5.5

Beginning first with the screenshot of the Cert for posterity:

 

Based on the assessment arrived at, replacement value would be the method of valuation best suited to handle the market fluctuations seen from the time the book was sold in Jan 2019, and the time which the current day, where consumers are being made aware of an alleged incident involving "holder tampering."

Click screenshot below to visit the online appraisal for further details

Additional notes for comparison, review, and posterity:

Sales history, this FF 48 appears 3 times for sale, the order that follows is from the first appearance of this cert to the last

1. 202507080375 | ebay | the.boss | 11/28/2018 | $1,100

Second appearance (This is when we notice a change of the book inside the holder, still keeping with the same certification number)

2. 283298999496 | ebay | briva3 | 12/18/2018 | $1,025

Third attempt is less than a month from the last time this appeared, same seller attemping to sell - as such, this sale is redacted as an outlier, despite it appearing as a valid recorded past sale comparable for FF 48 CGC 5.5.

3.  283323890210 sellerID: briva3 Cert: 0212408029 [1/8/2019] - $1,110

 

 

Yikes…how many more?!?

Perhaps that is one of the new improved processes they have implemented since holdergate? Lol

On 2/8/2024 at 4:35 PM, paqart said:

Curious how this works with the victims. 
1) Does this mean the comic is now surrendered to CGC and you don't get it back under any circumstances?
2) Was the purchase price higher or lower than FMV?
3) How is FMV determined?
4) Are they offering FMV, replacement value or a replacement slabbed comic?
5) Did you lose money because of this, after expected compensation?
6) Are you happy to walk away after compensation, or do you want to see perpetrators criminally prosecuted?
7) Have you independently contacted law enforcement?

Will keep you posted!

Well, just got the notification that my book had indeed been tampered with - now I guess we wait and see what happens.  The email states it may be a few weeks before I hear anything further.