VintageComics

So let me get this straight.
On the top pic, the Pence copy is on the left, but when you are showing the interiors the Pence copy is on the right and the cents copy has the green misprint?
@DiceX
Dice (or anyone else that has worked in the printing industry) is there any way of explaining the color differences between the two issues to give any clues as to earlier or later printings, or could inks and cutting blades be adjusted at any time through the printing process and it's all just random changes with no real clues as to a timeline?
I notice that not only are the greens deeper in the corner box on the Pence copy but there are better colors on Dr. Doom and in all the other greens on the Pence cover. It's definitely not fading as the Reds are solid on both.

I wouldn't waste your time investing $350.
The return will be minimal and not worth the effort or the transaction costs.
Buy something you really like and enjoy it. Ir buy a few Silver or Gold coins for that money and put it away for when the revolution starts.

To me it's a sobering wake up call as to how life can turn on any one of us when we make just a few bad decisions.
I'm not trying to moralize at people, these are conclusions I've come to myself as I've matured. Life is pretty fragile no matter how much we want to think it isn't, and often the "Goldilocks conditions" that we live under can come undone pretty quickly. Sometimes it just takes one bad decision and I can remember times in my life where I took one turn that changed everything. This is such an unfortunate story on so many levels for everyone involved that it's heartbreaking. 

And that, as they say, is that. 
Killer weekend with a friend of 20 years geeking out over junk. 
The title of this thread was apt. 
Dave has the patience of a saint and is bargain hunter like none I've ever seen. 
He's pretty much thrifted all of these things. 
That's a wrap!
@Microchip That's a great pic of you and I, isn't it? 

Here are two images from Heritage (not mine) of past sales.
 

The Qualified grade SHOULD ALWAYS HAVE ALSO HAD the actual higher grade of the book on the label as though it did not have the defect.
The graders know what the two grades and it relays a lot of valuable information to the buyers.
I've stated that and stood by it for as long as I've been here (and probably even in this very thread), and it makes NO sense not to have it. 
 

CGC has been putting all sorts of notes that make no sense on books in my experience and I'm not sure why. 
I literally would get books back, crack them out, look for the defect in the notes and was unable to find the defects. It was quite ridiculous for a while. 
The only thing I can think of is they had new graders. 

His worldview aligns extremely well with a lot of the people in charge of these things. Perhaps therein lies part of the answer? 

Using the logic posited by some in this thread, then all money must be worthless because of those few errors. 

I've been here twenty years, and the recent events have really caused me to wonder why I bother.   I asked why my quote was trimmed in private and got no response. I started a thread to ask why and was told I'm a bully who hounds a poster who I have not interacted with in months until he came into a thread we were all having fun with.  A quick search seems to show I haven't interacted with that poster in six months, but that isn't the impression you'd get from the moderators response.  He calls me a bully and then closes the thread without allowing any defense. 
I suspect my time here is limited, which is a shame because once we had a real sense of family and community.  This board helped me rekindle my then-fading love and comics, and was there for me through two very difficult times in my life. 

What can one do when a forum moderator attacks you for something?  He accuses me publicly and then doesn't give me a chance to respond.   He warns me to stay away from a poster, and the record will show I didn't interact with him for months until he came into an existing thread to hijack it. He then takes one quote without looking at its content and bans me.  He misquoted me the last time it happened, and when I compared what I actually said to the trimmed quote he posted, he ignored it. 
I suspect this has more to do with my posts on the multiple CGC scandals than anything else.

This is ridiculous.  I was asked to avoid gower/prince namor whatever and I have. Someone started a What If thread in silver and it was going well until gower showed up and repeated the same nonsense.  Today, I'm not allowed to respond.  I want an explanation. He has started at least a half dozen threads that do little but denigrate Stan Lee.  If that is his obsession, so be it. I ignore those threads and generally ignore that poster.  
He joined an already established thread and argued with everyone. I want to know why I'm not allowed to participate in what was a fun thread until he started his usual anti-stan drivel. 
I think this needs to be aired out publicly.

This is pretty much how every "scandal" has played out since the beginning of these boards. And there is always an element that will jump down your throat if you aren't running around with your hair on fire like they are.
Of course this is a serious issue that needs to be addressed and CGC needs to do better. That said, the sun is shining, the birds are singing, and 99.9999% of the world carries on blissfully unaware of the apocalypse some are enduring over this issue.
This, too, shall pass.

This is just simple economics. Flippers obviously have done the homework and see the value in restored books enough to unrestore them.
If collectors were more educated about restoration and paid more for that book when it was restored nobody would perform that work.
For example, let's say it was something like a 5.0 Restored, if buyers were willing to pay 3.5 Universal money for it as a 5.0 Restored, then that would remove the incentive for someone to buy it and remove the resto for a profit preserving the book AND keeping it better looking. 
I argued the same for pressed books when the Great Pressing Wars were happening. If regular collectors were willing to pony up for "virgin" books they'd remove the profit incentive for pressing them and kill that market. 
Those markets only exist because there's incentive. 
 

Have you bought from Roy? Complimentary pubes in every bag.

Now THIS would be a bad PR move.  CGC should offer a replacement physical book of the cash equivalent at the moment of the agreement.  Maybe throw in a free submission or two as well as a goodwill gesture.

As all these books are readily available, I think CGC should simply replace any affected books someone has with a true copy in grade regardless of current market value.  FMV at the moment might be higher or lower that what the person paid for the book...nobody's problem except CGC.  

Why are people getting bent out of shape over CGC asking for a receipt? Can anyone tell me an example of receiving a refund, from someone who did not sell the item in question, without being asked for a receipt? Seriously, it is the start of the refund conversation/dance. If you have a swapped 9.8 ASM #194, is CGC just supposed to send you a check for the last 90 day GPA average which is $2716? What if you are one of the poor souls who paid above $5,000 for your copy? How would CGC know this without a receipt?
Take a deep breath, settle your butt down in your sofa, deep breath, and explain you do not have a receipt but you bought the book from X for this much money at this auction, convention, or back alley. I have confidence that CGC will make you whole. They want this whole incident to fade into memory like the Ewert scandal. The best way to do this is to get the impacted people paid and hushed.
A better question would be that if you want your book back, how would CGC return it? Obviously they would have to return it but it has been broken out of the original holder for inspection. I feel they should grade it for free and offer to return it properly encased and graded. Would they do that or would they just send you your raw comic?

I'm wondering if that is an identifying phrase, 

People always react from their own vantage points. 
You are spending a great deal of time looking at a large number of books that have absolutely been tampered with, many of which are not on CGC's list, and are seeing that the scope of this is much larger than CGC claims. That is great and the work is important, but it also shapes your viewpoint.
I am looking across my own collection of several hundred slabs and none of those have been tampered with, and I am 100% sure that the books I am bidding on right now at the CL auction have not been tampered with due to my price point and the books I am selecting. That shapes my viewpoint. 
The key here is perspective and understanding where everyone is coming from.
The following is a series of true statements about the scam:
- The scam is important and has impacted on many people.
- The vast majority of comic collectors do not own books that have been tampered with.
- The hobby has been impacted in ways we cannot begin to measure.
- The hobby will continue.
- People's trust in CGC has been shaken.
- A lot of people will continue to send books in to CGC for grading and it will continue to be the gold standard in comic grading.
If your meme shows the flip sides to all of these proverbial coins then please go ahead and share. 

Based on the comments on my videos I would completely agree with the bolded point. I think a big source of difference is the people who have accounts with CGC and participate on a CGC forum are typically people who buy and sell slabs. It does not have to be that, but I am speaking about the majority of people on these boards. 
The audience for YouTube comic book channels is very different in that it spans more broadly across the comic community, and as such it includes both people who submit books and those who do not. Some of the people who are commenting in those reply sections are not into submitting books to begin with, and for that crowd the scam was one more reason that justifies not sending anything in for grading. There is also a crowd of people who are pretty dedicated to going from channel to channel and posting their hatred of CGC in every comment section they can find. 
So when you look at the composition of the groups of people on these boards and those writing in comments sections on YouTube I think the differences you correctly identify make sense. 

I think context is everything here. When @Lightning55 said that 90%+ of people will not be directly impacted by this scam he is completely correct, and when you point out it disproportionately impacts collectors with very expensive books you are pointing out a very similar thing. From my perspective the scam is absolutely important and I appreciate the hard work done by those who are continuing to dig into it, but it has zero impact on the way I collect, buy, and grade books. The books I send myself are clear, and the slabs I buy are typically crack and re-sub candidates (so 9.0-9.4 books I am hoping to get to 9.6/9.8). 
Further context is that a small number of people on the boards are dominating this thread with what basically amounts to "I hate CGC" and "why would anyone ever grade books again." The good and informative parts to this thread are people like @comicwiz and others who are bringing new potentially tampered with slabs to light to inform the community. The exhausting part of this thread are sifting through all of the responses I referred to in the first part of this paragraph because, although people have the right to spew endlessly and say the same thing again and again, not a single one of them adds anything of value to the discussion. It is worse for people like me who don't like to use the ignore feature because I am fully aware that the same person may add something of big value to another discussion along the way.  

Even two books that come off the same printer in succession might not weigh the same. Printing presses aren't calibrated machines that will turn out the same weight down to fractions of an ounce for each book, which is what we are talking about with a MVS. Weight as a way to prove or disprove is a nonstarter for me, even on raw books.

Social media has programmed society to be annoyed at everything. We should start a petition, because the Promise Pedigree needs a social justice thread to fight for it because it's so oppressed.