MAY1979

On 8/14/2024 at 8:31 PM, LordRahl said:

I just did the math. I've submitted 1009 books since the start of April. I'm stopping all submissions until they fix this or I can send them to PSA. I simply can't take the chance of stuff that is for my PC being damaged and stuff that is meant to be flipped will sell for less than it should because some subset of buyers is sitting out on 2024 submissions, which is ALREADY happening. In auctions, sometimes all it takes is 1 or 2 people to sit out for the price to be negatively affected to a large degree and I'm just not willing to risk that. 

That's 1009 Slabs of yours that a growing list of people now have zero interest in purchasing, bidding on, or owning simply because of the date it was graded+slabbed.  I'd like someone to explain how that is NOT a Bad thing!

P.S. Credit Card Issuers loathe upward Dispute and Chargeback trends.  If number of those spikes a Chronic dispute investigation on the merchant will be set in motion.  That type of investigation if initiated by a huge MasterCard or Visa Credit Card Issuer (specifically BOA and Chase) will be taken seriously by even large corporations.

Displaying CIB Boxes seems to have the "cachet" collectors seek as they generally present nicest.

My guess is those who prefer to display loose Carts are far and few between.  Unless as mentioned above its a proto or test or a rare label variation

P.S. Given the now rampant Slab damaging comics issue. I will be using my CGC credit towards Video Game Submission. I'll likley be frequenting this part of the forums as a result.  Since the late 1990's, when I was young,  I've put together a "carefully curated" collection of Unopened and or Sealed Atari 2600 games with a few Intellivision and Colecovision games sprinkled in.

On 8/14/2024 at 10:18 PM, LordRahl said:

I still welcome anyone to post some pics of a totally straight inner well from a modern submission over the past few months. 

Agreed from a data driven perspective!

On 8/14/2024 at 9:51 PM, LordRahl said:

You keep saying this and I've been reticent to comment but let's just go with.... pics or it didn't happen 

Beside being professional and totally respectful, Joey has always been on the level as far as i am aware.  He commented last week in this thread to mention his books not affected but he would examine all his inbound slabs.

On 8/6/2024 at 3:44 PM, joeypost said:

I can only speak for the books I personally get back and can inspect, but I have had minimal QC issues from the beginning. Getting things done in a timely manner is a whole different animal, but I can only remember a few books with either labels that were incorrect or had inner well issues. 

Please tag JoeyPost in a new post and pose your question. Input from him is pretty much worth more than anyone's in this thread due to his background in the hobby and massive current quantity submitter status.

On 8/14/2024 at 9:14 PM, LordRahl said:

I'm aware of that, which is why I'm stopping submissions. I can afford to do that as I don't rely on comic income for anything other than buying other comics. So I'll just stop buying comics for a bit. Snowball effect. For those who do make their living selling books, you should be worried, not burying your head in the sand.

Folk a reminder; Solution already is known to CGC as Joeypost and others who do large volume of submissions or large scale influencers are not affected. Lets see how many folks like LordRahl are harmed financially before CGC decide to give everyone's books the same treatment. 

The hobby was already in an overall down slide, loosing as little as 5% of potential bread&butter buyers and bidders at this juncture will do a decent amount of harm. Once some folks get it in their heads that any slab after 2023 (or 2022) equals bad it will take a long time to reverse that perception.

BTW for you smaller sellers (merchants from Credit Card perspective). Win or Loose you pay the Dispute and Chargeback Fee! aka Even if you Win, you still Lose. If via eBay they loathe chargebacks especially if from the larger Card Issuers, so expect them to take recourse against the seller.

https://www.chargebackgurus.com/blog/chargeback-fees-the-true-cost-of-your-chargebacks

https://www.signifyd.com/resources/fraud-101/chargeback-process-in-depth/

On 8/14/2024 at 8:31 PM, LordRahl said:

I just did the math. I've submitted 1009 books since the start of April. I'm stopping all submissions until they fix this or I can send them to PSA. I simply can't take the chance of stuff that is for my PC being damaged and stuff that is meant to be flipped will sell for less than it should because some subset of buyers is sitting out on 2024 submissions, which is ALREADY happening. In auctions, sometimes all it takes is 1 or 2 people to sit out for the price to be negatively affected to a large degree and I'm just not willing to risk that. 

I began avoiding all 2024 Graded/Slabbed books early in July. Even Comics I don't win at auction, my bids would have pushed up  - some considerably.  I have several close friends who "don't do internet forums" each of them spends (possible now past tense) rather decent money on Slabbed books a month. I've advised them to look at their books. All of of them are totally P.O.'d . They asked what dates are safe, I told them to avoid taking chances thus nothing after Dec 2022. They all took my advice - something that has never occurred before with them. The proof was in the pudding aka when they look at sides of their slabs.

Two of my buddies have taken to opening handfuls Disputes and Chargebacks including for any purchases that rolled off of ebay's 30 days.  Its those buddies who gave me full scoop on how the merchant pays all associated investigative costs to the card issuer and which card issuers have the most power; Chase, BOA and Amex. Since my friends are not submitters CGC wont face any potential Chargebacks from them

Yeah word won't get out to everyone and many simply won't care however loss of bidders especially those who previously spent 4-5 figures a month, plus bidding up items they did not win, regardless of slabbing date, will slowly but surely fiscally hurt folks like you my friend @LordRahl of that you can be sure.

Cat is out of the bag. It will get worse as those like for example my higher-rolling buddies spread the word in "their circles".

Heather Locklear will show you the result of telling 2 friends and then telling 2 friends and so on and so on.

On 8/14/2024 at 5:54 PM, Number 6 said:

My impression is a sizable number already have that policy, which probably contributes to the “nothing-to-see-here” attitude about this. 
 

I suspect that if buyers started forcing returns through e Bay or their credit card company over this issue these same sellers will suddenly get the Jesus-juice on this actually being a problem and that CGC do something about it. 

CCCCHHHHHAAAARRRRGGGGEEEEBACKS!

Use them!  Use them for purchase of Goods or SERVICES. Especially with Chase, Amex and BOA who have the most sway especially the former!

On 8/13/2024 at 10:33 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

 

Kudos to that forum member for rubbing salt into your open wounds and all the others affected.

On 8/13/2024 at 8:14 PM, Stefan_W said:

Part 2/2
I also cracked open a Werewolf by Night 31 CGC 9.4 (cert number 4426154018) which was graded on 28 May 2024.

Thanks for doing that Stefan! As mentioned, even out of the slab that book now presents like excrement due to the bending... Truly helps to drive the point home to avoid ALL post 2023 slabs.

On 8/13/2024 at 8:25 PM, DanJD said:

I for sure try to slab a book so I can crack it

even out of the slab the book looks like excrement due to the bending...

On 8/13/2024 at 7:33 PM, MadGenius said:

Yes, the person keeping the book for their PC will have a different reaction to the warped inner well than someone slabbing for the purposes of selling immediately.

Plus an $$$ incentive against spreading the word about purchasing newer slabs. 

On 8/13/2024 at 6:58 PM, Ninja0215 said:

Interesting.  I'm going to reholder my ASM 41 at some point but not yet. I want to see what happens first. 

Keep in mind the handling of the Newton Rings issue which began in 2016

I have books slabbed as far back as 12 years ago with the "tabs" "clip" "holder", many are digests, some are standard comics and some are thick comics in a magazine slab.  I've no issues the with the "plastic clip".

What I find unacceptable is submitting flat books and receiving them back warped, curved, concave-d, convex-ed by CGC.  Waiting for the Santa Ana winds to begin blowing, I'm not a dealer so I don't care how heavy or large a slab is as long it does not damage my comics - assuming of course the grading is just as strict, hopefully stricter!

P.S. I wish CGC would treat all our Comics with the same care and respect Joeypost and other huge submitting entities receive.

On 8/12/2024 at 10:43 PM, Ninja0215 said:

This is a fact?? That's bananas!! So, are we going off the deep end dor nothing? 🤔

So on some books if you crack it out it may be fine and thats OK? But then why pay for slabbing in the first place?  It's a huge negative selling point.

On 8/12/2024 at 10:29 PM, Stuk said:

Is it just me? I find myself perusing various offerings and upcoming auctions (HA, ComicConnect, and so on), and CGC slabs I would typically Watch to potentially bid on, I am simply passing up if the Cert. begins 43... or 44...Who needs the hassle? (Not so with raw, CBCS and older CGC slabs.) And the odd part is -- I have no qualms, anxiety or second-guessing about this. It seems so obvious. It's surprisingly easy decision. Why buy what appears to be a broken product (is it not broken? somehow?); why submit books for grading and pay for a broken service (is it not broken?)? It turns out that I CAN wait until this is resolved. Maybe this will trickle.

Exactly my thinking. Although I've extended my ban to 435 series and higher.  Due to the slab issue, I've used my collectible "budget" the past 6 weeks towards slabbed vintage pre war trading cards have only purchased 2 CGC books in that time both of which are 2nd gen slabs.

Of course and this is not a humble brag , I now have $650 in grading credit, 150 which must be used by Nov. I will use that 150 towards vintage sealed video games grading. Only hoping I don't hear about issue with those type of CGC slabs...

As for comics as of this moment in time I do not see envision any future scenario where I will send mine to almost certainly be outright damaged or warped or curved or concaved in any manner. Since I Do Not Sell comics, I'll be stocking up on eGerber supplies and going back to the 1990's in effect. Although on some books I'll go with Cole clear backing boards.

On 8/12/2024 at 10:21 PM, Ninja0215 said:

Lol !!!  I'm already going off about this place. I idn't want to add fuel to ffire,

I'm not seeing white line extend to the staple - top staple?

On 8/12/2024 at 9:52 PM, cphoenix921 said:

Just got an order back and almost the entire order has these same issues. It is extremely frustrating, they need to resolve these issues or I will not be sending more comics in. 

The issue does not occur apparently for Large Monthly and Annually Volume Submitter's (or influencer's) - example JoeyPost who has stated in all his sub's he has never received any book with the issues reported in this thread.

This means cause is known, but there is something in the process or materials done/used for large submitting entities that is not done or anyone else even if if the books are re-holdered.   It also means unless you can see a book in person you wont know if its been affected or not. Those who purchase online may want to stick to a venue where the buyer holds all the power (eBay), and ensure to use a credit card for when (not if) a dispute and chargeback is needed.

Something to keep in mind - while it guarantees absolutely nothing, there is powerful tool few consumers realize they have:

Credit Card Disputes and Charge Backs regardless of the outcome of dispute Merchants/Sellers/Businesses/etc pay the cost (a fee) to the Card Issuers. Does not matter if the Credit Card is used for Good or SERVICES.  If enough of them are filed with a large Credit Card issuer like Bank of America or Chase they will start to at least pose difficult questions to the Merchants/Sellers/Businesses/etc if enough people state similar reason in the dispute. Example; An item sent for a service offering was damaged by the Merchant. Or a purchased good was sold damaged but not advertised as such.

Below sampled from; https://www.credit.com/blog/what-happens-to-the-merchant-when-you-dispute-a-charge/

What Happens to the Merchant When You Dispute a Charge?

What Is a Chargeback?

A chargeback occurs when you successfully dispute a charge on your credit card. The charge is taken off your credit card account and the money paid to the merchant is reversed (or “charged back” to the merchant). Many people dispute credit card charges for services not rendered.

A chargeback can be a powerful tool for consumers who do not receive products or services they paid for, but it comes with several caveats. Even if the credit card company sides with you, the merchant may not—and they may try to collect the chargeback funds. 

When you dispute a charge with your credit card company, it must conduct what the law calls a “reasonable investigation” to determine whether the charge was correct. It must also present you with the result of the investigation within 90 days.

During that process, the credit card company typically reaches out to the merchant involved in the charge. It requests documentation from the merchant regarding the transaction in question, and the merchant may be able to state why the charge was correct.

If the credit card company sides with you, it removes the charge from your credit card statement, and you do not need to pay the charge on your credit card.

On 8/12/2024 at 7:58 PM, WernerVonDoom said:

I just bought an early 90s book on eBay that was graded on 7/29/24. It is crazy warped both vertically and horizontally. I'm not buying any more books until this is fixed. My god. @CGC Mike

As second owner, I guess I am out of luck. I'm not throwing any good money after bad to get this re-holdered.

On 8/12/2024 at 8:14 PM, DanJD said:

Return it to seller!  If enough get returned, sellers might put pressure on the company to fix it? Apparently small volume collector submissions doesn’t matter to CGC.  

On 8/12/2024 at 5:29 PM, Gaard said:

Warping/Curling, of any amount, is considered normal and within grading standards?

What was once considered an excessive amount of newton rings is now considered normal and within specs.

And let's not forget this stoopid 14 day rule concerning plastic shards, scratches and scuffs, debris (including insects), etc.

What kind of person/company/business makes these kinds of decisions?

 

execs who's only true goal is to pad their next bonus then skedaddle to wreck havoc at another firm 

Or a parent company doing a pump n dump

On 8/12/2024 at 3:51 PM, Ninja0215 said:

Second update: I did receive a response saying that the images I sent to the CS rep were rviwed by the grading team.  I was told  that  THIS WAS NORMAL AND FIT THE GRADING STANDARDS. For right now , grading with cgc in the future is uncertain.

Purchasing post 2022/2023 slabs too for you ?

On 8/11/2024 at 4:39 PM, Killer_Pickle said:

Sorry if this has been touched on elsewhere...

I was trying to submit and not sure if it would get accepted... A metal (tin) comic con badge.

I think it could be submitted under a jumbo card .... Has anyone tried this ?

Has it worked or got denied?

Love to see a pic