I'll pound you to a "Pulp" if you don't show off yours! 23 23

[OtherEric]

22 minutes ago, Black_Adam said:

 

This cover grabs me. And Lovecraft

 

As a pulp neophyte, I was just wondering a few things:

 

How big is pulp supply/demand (say, in relation to comics)?

Is there a recommended price guide?

Can you get these graded and slabbed?

 

 

I would say supply is probably similar to comics, but with a lot of variation.  Genre can have a LOT of influence of scarcity; Science Fiction pulps are a lot more common, for example.  Right now, I would say demand (with a few exceptions) is pretty soft and we're very much in a buyer's market.  The internet has been making finding books a lot easier, and it's a little morbid but I believe a lot of collections are hitting the market as the generation that could have bought them new are passing away.

If there is a price guide, I'm not aware of it, and probably wouldn't trust it much.  With quite a few exceptions, as I said the demand is soft at the moment and books can be gotten a lot cheaper than a decade or two ago.  Hero Pulps, Spicy Pulps, and pulps with stories by certain authors are notable exceptions, but even those have deals pop up.

Pretty sure there's nobody grading and slabbing pulps, I know I've never seen any slabbed copies for sale.

I'm also not what I would call an expert on pulps; so if one of our members who is disagrees with what I'm saying trust them over me.

[RedFury]

9 hours ago, OtherEric said:

 

I would say supply is probably similar to comics, but with a lot of variation.  Genre can have a LOT of influence of scarcity; Science Fiction pulps are a lot more common, for example.  Right now, I would say demand (with a few exceptions) is pretty soft and we're very much in a buyer's market.  The internet has been making finding books a lot easier, and it's a little morbid but I believe a lot of collections are hitting the market as the generation that could have bought them new are passing away.

If there is a price guide, I'm not aware of it, and probably wouldn't trust it much.  With quite a few exceptions, as I said the demand is soft at the moment and books can be gotten a lot cheaper than a decade or two ago.  Hero Pulps, Spicy Pulps, and pulps with stories by certain authors are notable exceptions, but even those have deals pop up.

Pretty sure there's nobody grading and slabbing pulps, I know I've never seen any slabbed copies for sale.

I'm also not what I would call an expert on pulps; so if one of our members who is disagrees with what I'm saying trust them over me.

1895-1925 - supply is very low, but so is demand with the exception of keys, Burroughs stuff,  or certain artists like Wyeth.

1926-1930 - still kinda scarce, but demand is increased because the books are more interesting.  Publishers started to try out a variety of different niche titles.

1931-1940 - quite a bit of demand, but most books also have a decent supply.  1930's pulps are the sweet spot for me.

1940 - 1956 - high supply, low demand.  Most books can be found easily.  

There is a price guide, Bookery's Guide to Pulps, written by Tim Cottrill of Bookery Fantasy in Ohio.  There are two editions from 2001 and 2005.  The prices are old, but you can still see which books are valuable and which are not.  And there's lots of info about key issue, famous writers, artists, etc.

There is currently no company I know of that grades pulps.  The reasons for this include:

• Much smaller market of pulp collectors in relation to comic book collectors
• A significant portion (majority?) of pulp collectors would disapprove of slabbing pulps ("They're meant to be read!")
• Most pulps have cover overhang that might be problematic when slabbing
• Counting pages in pulps is tedious.  Most pulps are about 128 pages, twice the average golden age comic and 4 times the average modern comic.  Plus, most pulps have untrimmed pages, making it even harder to turn them.  It's just really difficult to quickly ensure all the pages are there in a pulp.

I myself would love to have a third party grading option for pulps, but I come from the comic world and I collect mostly high-grade and key pulps.

 

[Black_Adam]

Great info! I've always been a big fan of the works of Howard, Lovecraft and CA Smith and these pulps have so many cool covers. I'm definitely going to have to grab some and start reading 

[OtherEric]

53 minutes ago, Black_Adam said:

Great info! I've always been a big fan of the works of Howard, Lovecraft and CA Smith and these pulps have so many cool covers. I'm definitely going to have to grab some and start reading 

Howard, Lovecraft, CA Smith, and a cool cover?  Here's my only book that meets the first 3 requirements all in one; and if there's any Brundage cover that doesn't meet the 4th I'm not aware of it.

Howard has a western story, "The Man on the Ground"; Lovecraft shows up twice with "Dreams in the Witch-House" and, ghost-written for Hazel Heald, "The Horror in the Museum"; and Clark Ashton Smith has "Ubbo-Sathla", a Hyperborea story.

[*paull*]

14 hours ago, RedFury said:

1895-1925 - supply is very low, but so is demand with the exception of keys, Burroughs stuff,  or certain artists like Wyeth.

1926-1930 - still kinda scarce, but demand is increased because the books are more interesting.  Publishers started to try out a variety of different niche titles.

1931-1940 - quite a bit of demand, but most books also have a decent supply.  1930's pulps are the sweet spot for me.

1940 - 1956 - high supply, low demand.  Most books can be found easily.  

There is a price guide, Bookery's Guide to Pulps, written by Tim Cottrill of Bookery Fantasy in Ohio.  There are two editions from 2001 and 2005.  The prices are old, but you can still see which books are valuable and which are not.  And there's lots of info about key issue, famous writers, artists, etc.

There is currently no company I know of that grades pulps.  The reasons for this include:

• Much smaller market of pulp collectors in relation to comic book collectors
• A significant portion (majority?) of pulp collectors would disapprove of slabbing pulps ("They're meant to be read!")
• Most pulps have cover overhang that might be problematic when slabbing
• Counting pages in pulps is tedious.  Most pulps are about 128 pages, twice the average golden age comic and 4 times the average modern comic.  Plus, most pulps have untrimmed pages, making it even harder to turn them.  It's just really difficult to quickly ensure all the pages are there in a pulp.

I myself would love to have a third party grading option for pulps, but I come from the comic world and I collect mostly high-grade and key pulps.

 

I wouldn't endorse pulp grading if it existed.  It's too difficult and the grading itself could damage the books.  I'd much rather have unslabbed books.

Definitely more of a buyer's market than a decade ago, and in my opinion, the best buying is online.  I've been to one pulp show, paper shows and comic shows, and the I wasn't as impressed with the books.  Selection is better in online auctions.  

As for genres, top notch spicy, hero and weird menace pulps are tops.  Of course, cover artists and writers matter.  Burroughs and Lovecraft, for example, are still in demand.  

[Bookery]

On 2/22/2017 at 9:44 AM, RedFury said:

1895-1925 - supply is very low, but so is demand with the exception of keys, Burroughs stuff,  or certain artists like Wyeth.

1926-1930 - still kinda scarce, but demand is increased because the books are more interesting.  Publishers started to try out a variety of different niche titles.

1931-1940 - quite a bit of demand, but most books also have a decent supply.  1930's pulps are the sweet spot for me.

1940 - 1956 - high supply, low demand.  Most books can be found easily.  

There is a price guide, Bookery's Guide to Pulps, written by Tim Cottrill of Bookery Fantasy in Ohio.  There are two editions from 2001 and 2005.  The prices are old, but you can still see which books are valuable and which are not.  And there's lots of info about key issue, famous writers, artists, etc.

There is currently no company I know of that grades pulps.  The reasons for this include:

• Much smaller market of pulp collectors in relation to comic book collectors
• A significant portion (majority?) of pulp collectors would disapprove of slabbing pulps ("They're meant to be read!")
• Most pulps have cover overhang that might be problematic when slabbing
• Counting pages in pulps is tedious.  Most pulps are about 128 pages, twice the average golden age comic and 4 times the average modern comic.  Plus, most pulps have untrimmed pages, making it even harder to turn them.  It's just really difficult to quickly ensure all the pages are there in a pulp.

I myself would love to have a third party grading option for pulps, but I come from the comic world and I collect mostly high-grade and key pulps.

 

This is the first place I've mentioned this, but after 12 years I am finally working on an update to the guide.  I'm not putting in the hours on it I did for the first two, so it's moving along slowly, but then again there's not as much new work to be done at this point.  It could probably be done within the year if I pressed myself on it.  Am reformatting it slightly... it will be a bit easier to use... with most titles now getting an overview paragraph of the type of material to be expected.  Prices will be the last thing I get to and update.  The big problem is... I'm not sure there's anywhere left to publish it.  I'm not interested in self-distributing it like the last one.  So even if I finish it, it may be a moot endeavor.  HOWEVER... in the meantime I can give you a general sense of prices since 2005.  Pristine copies, as with comics, have become a world unto themselves, and may bring serious premiums.  Otherwise, basic science-fiction pulps really haven't changed that much in the last dozen years.  Some hero pulps have actually dropped in value... later Docs and Shadow pulps have been impacted by the reprints.  Detective pulps have definitely been on the upswing, and are getting much tougher to obtain.  These have probably risen to various degrees across the board in the past decade.  And also as with comics, the more over-the-top covers seem to be in ever-increasing demand, particularly in grades above "vg".  Authors are less important than they used to be... now it's all about cover art.  The rare stuff seems to get ever-rarer, at least in terms of being seen out for sale.

[RedFury]

5 minutes ago, Bookery said:

This is the first place I've mentioned this, but after 12 years I am finally working on an update to the guide.  I'm not putting in the hours on it I did for the first two, so it's moving along slowly, but then again there's not as much new work to be done at this point.  It could probably be done within the year if I pressed myself on it.  Am reformatting it slightly... it will be a bit easier to use... with most titles now getting an overview paragraph of the type of material to be expected.  Prices will be the last thing I get to and update.  The big problem is... I'm not sure there's anywhere left to publish it.  I'm not interested in self-distributing it like the last one.  So even if I finish it, it may be a moot endeavor.  HOWEVER... in the meantime I can give you a general sense of prices since 2005.  Pristine copies, as with comics, have become a world unto themselves, and may bring serious premiums.  Otherwise, basic science-fiction pulps really haven't changed that much in the last dozen years.  Some hero pulps have actually dropped in value... later Docs and Shadow pulps have been impacted by the reprints.  Detective pulps have definitely been on the upswing, and are getting much tougher to obtain.  These have probably risen to various degrees across the board in the past decade.  And also as with comics, the more over-the-top covers seem to be in ever-increasing demand, particularly in grades above "vg".  Authors are less important than they used to be... now it's all about cover art.  The rare stuff seems to get ever-rarer, at least in terms of being seen out for sale.

Nice to hear you're working on an updated guide.  How about a print-on-demand model so you don't have to carry any inventory or worry about shipping?  Just upload it to your printer of choice and let them handle everything.

Good summary of the current state of the market.  

[Bookery]

24 minutes ago, RedFury said:

Nice to hear you're working on an updated guide.  How about a print-on-demand model so you don't have to carry any inventory or worry about shipping?  Just upload it to your printer of choice and let them handle everything.

Good summary of the current state of the market.  

Print-on-demand may indeed be a possibility.  But the old-time pulpsters are not much into computer uploading, so it's hard to say.  If all else fails, I may find a way to attach it to my website, where it could possibly be made available for free.  It's not like one gets rich publishing reference books anyway.  But again... it's not the same as a nice professionally bound book.  -- Tim Cottrill

[Cat-Man_America]

1 hour ago, Bookery said:

This is the first place I've mentioned this, but after 12 years I am finally working on an update to the guide.  I'm not putting in the hours on it I did for the first two, so it's moving along slowly, but then again there's not as much new work to be done at this point.  It could probably be done within the year if I pressed myself on it.  Am reformatting it slightly... it will be a bit easier to use... with most titles now getting an overview paragraph of the type of material to be expected.  Prices will be the last thing I get to and update.  The big problem is... I'm not sure there's anywhere left to publish it.  I'm not interested in self-distributing it like the last one.  So even if I finish it, it may be a moot endeavor.  HOWEVER... in the meantime I can give you a general sense of prices since 2005.  Pristine copies, as with comics, have become a world unto themselves, and may bring serious premiums.  Otherwise, basic science-fiction pulps really haven't changed that much in the last dozen years.  Some hero pulps have actually dropped in value... later Docs and Shadow pulps have been impacted by the reprints.  Detective pulps have definitely been on the upswing, and are getting much tougher to obtain.  These have probably risen to various degrees across the board in the past decade.  And also as with comics, the more over-the-top covers seem to be in ever-increasing demand, particularly in grades above "vg".  Authors are less important than they used to be... now it's all about cover art.  The rare stuff seems to get ever-rarer, at least in terms of being seen out for sale.

I'll join Red Fury's comments and add a few suggestions of my own.  

You might look into a two-pronged approach that includes print on-demand and a Kindle edition or similar on-line downloadable version.  If the interest is there, you might be able to partner with Amazon to reach a broader market while achieving your goal without incurring excessive up-front costs and the burdon of warehousing.  I don't believe Amazon's Thomas and Mercer imprint (mystery/suspense) currently handles Guides, ...but who knows, by the time your new edition is ready the landscape may change.

As I see it, the trickiest part of marketing a new pulp guide is establishing a broader grading system.  The minutiae matters, that's why the 10 point system works so well for comics.   Relying on trust ...with one dealer's Good or Fine copy being labeled another's VF/NM... might be okay for a $20 pulp, but not for a $200 pulp.  Overhanging covers with irregularly cut pages should have a sliding scale for what constitutes a high grade as I'm sure bends and tears were commonplace on newsstand fresh copies.  Conversely, evenly-cut squarebound pulps would fit nicely into comics grading criteria with minor retooling.  

Unfortunately, without third party grading and holders grades almost become a moot point. While some folks may not like the idea of tightly grading pulps, a consistent grading system may be crucial going forward, especially with rarer pulps attracting nosebleed prices.  Without a uniform grading system in place that's acceptable to the collecting community it's no surprise that reprints suppress the market.  Given this scenario, inexpensive reprints would be the only safe bet. 

Edited February 23, 2017 by Cat-Man_America

[Bookery]

23 minutes ago, Cat-Man_America said:

I'll join Red Fury's comments and add a few suggestions of my own.  

You might look into a two-pronged approach that includes print on-demand and a Kindle edition or similar on-line downloadable version.  If the interest is there, you might be able to partner with Amazon to reach a broader market while achieving your goal without incurring excessive up-front costs and the burdon of warehousing.  I don't believe Amazon's Thomas and Mercer imprint (mystery/suspense) currently handles Guides, ...but who knows, by the time your new edition is ready the landscape may change.

As I see it, the trickiest part of marketing a new pulp guide is establishing a broader grading system.  The minutiae matters, that's why the 10 point system works so well for comics.   Relying on trust ...with one dealer's Good or Fine copy being labeled another's VF/NM... might be okay for a $20 pulp, but not for a $200 pulp.  Overhanging covers with irregularly cut pages should have a sliding scale for what constitutes a high grade as I'm sure bends and tears were commonplace on newsstand fresh copies.  Conversely, evenly-cut squarebound pulps would fit nicely into comics grading criteria with minor retooling.  

Unfortunately, without third party grading and holders grades almost become a moot point. While some folks may not like the idea of tightly grading pulps, a consistent grading system may be crucial going forward, especially with rarer pulps attracting nosebleed prices.  Without a uniform grading system in place that's acceptable to the collecting community it's no surprise that reprints suppress the market.  Given this scenario, inexpensive reprints would be the only safe bet. 

I will still employ three price columns in the new guide, but I was already planning to move to a 10-point grading scale (pulps don't really need the half-grades at this point, I don't think).  But it's particularly confusing now with pulps being included with comics at some of the big auction houses.  Traditionally, a pulp in "Fine" condition is about as good as it gets in most cases (equivalent to perhaps an 8.0 or better in comics).  But when someone lists a pulp as "Fine", a comic collector may assume it's only in mid-grade.  But oddly enough a "very good" in both pulps and comics is roughly the same.  Factory-trimmed pulps are obviously much easier to find in higher grade than traditional "overhang" pulps, and should be priced at a different spread, as should most digests.  I'm leaning toward 2.0, 5.0 and 8.0 columns, with of course an introduction defining the other grades.  But it might go 2.0-4.0-8.0.  I'll figure it out later.  Of course... if I acquire the next "Church Collection"... all pulp-guide plans could be put on the back-burner...

 

[sacentaur]

2 hours ago, Bookery said:

This is the first place I've mentioned this, but after 12 years I am finally working on an update to the guide.  I'm not putting in the hours on it I did for the first two, so it's moving along slowly, but then again there's not as much new work to be done at this point.  It could probably be done within the year if I pressed myself on it.  Am reformatting it slightly... it will be a bit easier to use... with most titles now getting an overview paragraph of the type of material to be expected.  Prices will be the last thing I get to and update.  The big problem is... I'm not sure there's anywhere left to publish it.  I'm not interested in self-distributing it like the last one.  So even if I finish it, it may be a moot endeavor.  HOWEVER... in the meantime I can give you a general sense of prices since 2005.  Pristine copies, as with comics, have become a world unto themselves, and may bring serious premiums.  Otherwise, basic science-fiction pulps really haven't changed that much in the last dozen years.  Some hero pulps have actually dropped in value... later Docs and Shadow pulps have been impacted by the reprints.  Detective pulps have definitely been on the upswing, and are getting much tougher to obtain.  These have probably risen to various degrees across the board in the past decade.  And also as with comics, the more over-the-top covers seem to be in ever-increasing demand, particularly in grades above "vg".  Authors are less important than they used to be... now it's all about cover art.  The rare stuff seems to get ever-rarer, at least in terms of being seen out for sale.

Tim,  any insight (generally speaking) how early Weird Tales and Amazing Stories bedsheets are doing? Uptick in interest in Brundage covers perhaps?

[Bookery]

21 minutes ago, sacentaur said:

Tim,  any insight (generally speaking) how early Weird Tales and Amazing Stories bedsheets are doing? Uptick in interest in Brundage covers perhaps?

I haven't spent much time tracking down price data yet... mostly just get general reports from some of my clients and dealers.  I did see not too long ago some Weird Tales at Heritage seemed to be going for healthy prices... but I don't recall how nice the grades were.  There was a gorgeous copy of Weird Tales #1 listed at Heartwood Books a short time ago... it was described as a solid "Fine" and may well have been the best copy in existence.  It was priced at $12,000, and I was thinking that seemed like a very reasonable price.  I was seriously considering it, but then wondered why it was still available... maybe I'm thinking WT prices had softened?  But a few days later it was gone.  It's one of those over-thinking it situations... if it's available, then it must be too expensive.  If it's gone, then it must have been a bargain!  I'm holding out for Schroedinger's Pulp... it's both available and sold simultaneously!

[Dr. Love]

3 minutes ago, Bookery said:

I'm holding out for Schroedinger's Pulp... it's both available and sold simultaneously!

yeh baby

and

Steve!

[RedFury]

I was seriously considering buying that Weird Tales #1.  I talked to them about it, and since I was going to be in Florida a few weeks later, I made arrangements to look at the book in person.  Alas, it sold a few days later.   I'm kicking myself now.

[RedFury]

Here's another pretty pulp. 

All-Story Love, Dec 1945

[Black_Adam]

Once again, great info from all who have posted.

I didn't realize pulps had such a different grading scale from comics, but it sounds like it is necessary. Based on what I've read it sounds like a VF copy of some of these old pulps (due to age, printing process, etc) is as rare as a NM comic of the same vintage.

It also sounds like the best place to find pulps is online. Does this mainly mean Ebay? Or are there some pulp dealers online anyone can recommend? And how is the grading for pulps on Ebay? About the same hit and miss as it is for comics?

Thanks again for the info, and keep those great covers coming!

[RedFury]

A cool swipe from a pulp to a comic.

The Ghost #1, Jan 1940, cover by Rafael DeSoto

Blue Ribbon Comics #18, Nov 1941, cover by Sam Cooper

[Robot Man]

I have always wished some one would do a Gerber type book on pulps showing all the covers. It would probably turn the market upside down like it did to comics. Something that pulp collectors have always not wanted to happen for obvious reasons. I can't imagine how hard it would be to find them all though. Pulps are so much rarer than comics. I'm a cover guy and know it would drain my wallet significantly.

[Dr. Love]

digests = the evolutionary link

and oh so slabbable

if only cgc would agree to...ahh, you know what they say, wish in one hand and take a dookie in the other and see which gets filled up first

 

[adamstrange]

That's brutal!