PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[divad]

So what is the sales forum stance that if a seller accepts a return of a book, owes a refund, but doesn't end up providing that refund, do they go on the Probation List after a certain amount of days?

 

Or, is this one of those situations where we have not run across this yet from past sales?

 

I don't remember that one coming up, but it certainly sounds like a probation offense to me...if it happens. Has it been 30 days?

 

It certainly would be. It's the same as non-delivery imho.

[Bosco685]

Rich will make good. I think he's probably has "life" going on. I'd ease up a bit if I were you - not a lot of time has passed since you made your request and returned the book.

I appreciate the kind advice. But including having to return a book to the overall experience, "ease up" was not at the top of my list. Someone that cares about customer service moves fast to show they care.

 

Let's see how that rings true in this situation.

[Bosco685]

Rich has contacted me that the glue-looking substance is something to do with the encasement process, and common. I've never run across this, but I am going to assume this comes from years of experience.

 

I should expect a refund tomorrow.

Edited July 19, 2009 by Bosco685

[greggy]

Rich has contacted me that the glue-looking substance is something to do with the encasement process, and common. I've never run across this, but I am going to assume this comes from years of experience.

 

I should expect a refund tomorrow.

It is dufus

[Bosco685]

Rich has contacted me that the glue-looking substance is something to do with the encasement process, and common. I've never run across this, but I am going to assume this comes from years of experience.

 

I should expect a refund tomorrow.

It is dufus

 

I caught Greggy's attention. It is a good day!

[sckao]

 

You posted your problem apparently on TWO SEPARATE THREADS. If I didn't read BOTH threads, I might not have gotten a complete picture of what the problem was and the resolution.

 

Perhaps in the future, you might want to confine it to ONE THREAD.

 

 

[Bosco685]

You posted your problem apparently on TWO SEPARATE THREADS. If I didn't read BOTH threads, I might not have gotten a complete picture of what the problem was and the resolution.

 

Perhaps in the future, you might want to confine it to ONE THREAD.

I started posting in the other thread, and then someone sent a PM stating I should be posting in this thread.

 

What's the difference the two as this one at least has the statement from Arch that it is to discuss things outside the actual Probation List thread, but then there is the "Keep the other threads clean" thread.

 

[sckao]

You posted your problem apparently on TWO SEPARATE THREADS. If I didn't read BOTH threads, I might not have gotten a complete picture of what the problem was and the resolution.

 

Perhaps in the future, you might want to confine it to ONE THREAD.

I started posting in the other thread, and then someone sent a PM stating I should be posting in this thread.

 

What's the difference the two as this one at least has the statement from Arch that it is to discuss things outside the actual Probation List thread, but then there is the "Keep the other threads clean" thread.

 

 

The point is that if someone reads the other thread (now or in the future), they won't know to go to this one. (You might want to edit your last post in THAT thread pointing to the spot in THIS thread where the discussion continues.)

 

 

 

[sckao]

 

Let's also discuss what seems to have happened.

 

1) You buy a 9.6 book on 6/25/2009 for what seems like a good price in a slab.

2) You don't get the book for at least a week and a half. (Let's say two weeks.)

3) You notice what you THINK is glue along the bottom and some things (packing materials) ENCAPSULATED within the holder. (Both of which you later find are probably NOT THE SELLER'S FAULT.) You note that the defects are not shown in the scans/photos.

4) You find you do not want the book for whatever reason and the seller agrees to a return/refund.

5) The book gets marked delivered on 7/18/2009 (not 7/19 as indicated in your post since you said he received it YESTERDAY and today is 7/19). Total time elapsed is still less than a month.

6) He hasn't responded yet (after a DAY) so you bring this matter here to a public forum.

 

Personally, I think you just dragged the seller's name through the mud here for no reason.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bosco685]

Let's also discuss what seems to have happened.

 

1) You buy a 9.6 book on 6/25/2009 for what seems like a good price in a slab.

2) You don't get the book for at least a week and a half. (Let's say two weeks.)

3) You notice what you THINK is glue along the bottom and some things (packing materials) ENCAPSULATED within the holder. (Both of which you later find are probably NOT THE SELLER'S FAULT.) You note that the defects are not shown in the scans/photos.

4) You find you do not want the book for whatever reason and the seller agrees to a return/refund.

5) The book gets marked delivered on 7/18/2009 (not 7/19 as indicated in your post since you said he received it YESTERDAY and today is 7/19). Total time elapsed is still less than a month.

6) He hasn't responded yet (after a DAY) so you bring this matter here to a public forum.

 

Personally, I think you just dragged the seller's name through the mud here for no reason.

 

Thanks for the summary, but your personal opinion is just that, and not the buyer experience. I'll be back in a moment to explain further.

[sckao]

 

By the way, just because someone is showing as "online" does not mean that they are actually sitting at their computer.

 

I use GPAnalysis' CGC app for the iphone so I will register as being online every time it opens. If I read a PM on my iPhone, I frequently don't respond immediately even though it will be marked as read.

 

I also leave my computer on basically 24 hours a day frequently with over a dozen Firefox windows open (and various tabs). Any one of these may be on the CGC boards which will indicate that I'm online.

 

(And if I accidentally leave my browser set to CGC at the office, I'll, of course, also register as being online.)

 

 

 

 

[Bosco685]

Okay, sorry about that. So, following your summary:

 

1) Correct, and I thought Rich was nice for doing that, and since he said if you can pay immediately I'll get it shipped out today, I did. I always shoot to pay if not the same day, the very next day.

 

2) Correct, book doesn't ship the same day as expected, nor does it show up within the week as was expected.

 

3) This is where your summary can be slightly misleading because of the situation, not because you mean to. I get the book, and notice this large buildup of glue at the bottom of the case that looks like someone unprofessionally did some work on this. Between the delay in shipping, the sellers PM that "you tell ME how in the world it didn't hit 9.8" and yet I can clearly see a big flaw at the bottom of this book, and then seeing this large buildup of glue across the bottom of the case, and unfortunately never dealing with Rich before, how does that appear? Think about it for a moment.

 

4) I do not want the book for a good reason - this initially appeared tampered with, and especially after I called CGC and spoke directly with Gemma who made it clear they do not glue the cases. She even highly recommended sending it in immediately so they could see this as well. And the day before I had sent a note to Rich pointing out what I found, he reads it, and not realizing how it can be perceived by a buyer, doesn't respond. I'll even go as far as to say Rich meant no harm in doing that, but to a buyer after what I am seeing it totally sends the wrong signals.

 

5) Not sure how this magic month makes good customer service valid other than it is a board rule to be put on the probation list - not to do what is right! But the book arrives yesterday morning (thanks for catching the small date error - was a little bothered by this situation).

 

6) I check with Rich if he received it, and he states when he gets home from work he will look at it and get back to me. Again, Rich didn't mean to send the wrong signals, but I am already concerned and then the night goes by, he is on the board, but no PM. If you are going to tell a buyer that has concerns you will get back to them that night, 30 days means nothing in this discussion. So then the next morning I see he is on, and I send a PM asking what he thought. No response.

 

As a seller, I make it a point if there is an issue with an order, I turn communications around fast to show I am taking a situation serious. So with that perception of customer service and the concerns of this situation, that is what made me bring this forward to ensure this gets resolved. If timely responses were sent after seeing such concern, do you think it would have gone this far.

 

Now as far as asking a bunch of sellers to totally sympathize with a buyer, let's be real. That is not going to happen 100%. But in 2 years amassing an extensive collection of encased books either through purchases or direct submissions, I've never seen anything like I did on the bottom of that case. Never!

 

Sure, the periodic dirty internal case shell, the rub marks on the inside, and maybe even a super-rare book holder plastic frame encased across the cover instead of to the side.

 

Now Rich did the right thing later this afternoon and got back with me, explained this is a very common error from CGC, and promised to send a refund tonight. That brief and effective communication would have cut out a lot of concern quickly. At least he did this now.

[sckao]

No, I sympathize with your situation.

 

I'm selling on eBay right now and while most people pay immediately, I've got a couple of buyers who haven't paid yet (over a week).

 

Perhaps, a photo of the glue sent to Gemma would have given her something to show the actual encapsulator or graders.

 

 

 

 

 

[Bosco685]

No, I sympathize with your situation.

 

I'm selling on eBay right now and while most people pay immediately, I've got a couple of buyers who haven't paid yet (over a week).

 

Perhaps, a photo of the glue sent to Gemma would have given her something to show the actual encapsulator or graders.

Honestly Shin, I think that would have been a HUGE help. But when I am told by a representative of CGC they do not use any bonding material on the bottom of the cases, and even is kind enough to ask that I send it in immediately, the perception established is reality created.

 

Looking back, if I had sent the same exact photo to CGC, I would have hoped someone would clarify correctly there is some bonding material used on the cases, and not just pressure-sealing the two outer shells together.

 

[Rich_Henn]

You know, I thought I would respond to this tirade of Nick's after JUST now seeing this here on the boards....I never in a million years would have thought Nick or anyone on these boards for that matter, would take up an issue with me public in such a manner.

 

What Nick is NOT telling you is the following:

 

When he purchased the book,I honestly thought I mailed it out within 24 hours, because I had something like two dozen books to mail before I took my vacation to Cape May.

 

Upon reaching Cape May,I began emailing some people to follow up on their shipments. I thought that I had mailed Nick's book, but couldn't be sure,and after he said he hadn't received the book, I promised I would follow up on it when I got back.

 

When I did get back from Cape May on July 4th in the evening, I looked through my receipts, my tracking info and couldn't find the results...upon which turning the house upside down, I did indeed locate the book.

 

I emailed Nick, told him the good news, and the book was then shipped out.

We were both relieved because at first, I thought that I might have mistakenly shipped it to someone else in my haste to get two dozen books out the door before vacation.

 

When Nick got the book, he PM'd me to say that there seemed to be loose packing material in the case itself (the back of the case, I think)...little pieces that sounded like they came from the inside of the box where the slabs come from.

He also sounded distressed at noticing a white substance that looked like "glue" in the bottom corner of the case.

 

I assured him that was not the issue...the book was graded on site in Philly Wiz World, went straight away with me home, where it sat till I mailed it to him. What I suspected was something that I've seen in about a dozen of my own cases, it's something to do with the heat sealing process that might cause a discoloration in the shell of the case itself. Regardless, this was definitely not glue.

 

I said I would get back to him, no worries, mail the book back, I'd issue a full refund. No problem.

Book comes back, I'm not home, Nick PMs me to say "I saw the book arrived, have you had a chance to look at it."

 

To which I say,"I'll check it out when I get home."

Key word here....NOT HOME.

 

To answer Nick's implication earlier, about how he "saw that I was online several times throughout the day but didn't reply..."

 

This is true. When I leave the house and know I need to get work done away from home, I take the lap top with me. I pretty much spent the better part of my day at the library what not, and also I know that the desktop computer is always on and almost always signed in on my account.

 

Regardless, I really couldn't answer fairly until I got home that night to see what was going on.

 

When I did, and opened the box, I did see what he was talking about...a couple little flakes of packing material seem to be trapped in the case.

The substance at the bottom of the case wasn't any substance at all, but indeed just part of the heat sealing as I suspected.

 

At any rate, I promised Nick a full refund before he even sent the book back, and told him yesterday that I should have some funds clear my paypal. I said that they should be all cleared up my Monday AM and he'd probably have them before he woke up.

 

Later toward the evening, I pm'd him again to say that funds looked like they might be clearing up sooner, and that I might be able to take care of this before the end of the day.

 

All of these PM's going back and forth between us WITHOUT ME REALIZING THAT HE WAS BUSY OVER HERE, MAKING THIS PUBLIC.

 

I never once thought this was a public matter.

 

Clearly two things.

Nick wasn't happy that I wasn't readily available to answer his questions quick enough.

 

And second and more the burr in my azz...that he apparently thought that someone had tampered with the case (in that case, that someone being me since Nick and I are the only ones that handled that case). But you know what I could understand how if you haven't seen that before, that could cause concern.

Let me ammend by saying the BURR IN MY AZZ is that he filed a paypal dispute against me yesterday even AFTER our back and forth and knowing that a refund was coming....more on that later.

 

But I don't want to get off topic here.

 

SO...I go to bed , got up this morning, saw my funds cleared and then immeadiately issued Nick his full refund.

 

I still hadn't realized that Nick had this public dispute with me in (TWO???) threads---did I read that right, Greggy? Or was it someone else that posted that?

 

And about half hour later after the funds were refunded to Nick, I get an email from paypal saying that a dispute was opened, then another one saying dispute closed.

 

I'm like....what the...

 

To which then I go into my history and see that Nick had filed a dispute against me (it turns out he did so yesterday---I thought he did it this AM after the refund....but regardless...WHAT THE , NICK???!?!?) Bad form, man. BAD FORM.

 

And then promptly canceled his dispute this morning after his refund was sent.

 

I will take FULL accountability for not getting his book out in a timely fashion.

I will absolutely stand here and say "I screwed the pooch...it was an honest mistake, I was in a hurry to leave for Cape May on vacation with the family, and after shipping out all those books, I missed his Sandman #1."

 

I will also tell you that the lines of communication were never an issue, were never a question to the book, the reund, the quality, the case, nothing.

 

To see that Nick in his impatience thought that I would actually screw him and filed a paypal dispute against me, is just making me insane.

 

All this before I noticed this thread today (I still haven't seen the 2nd one).

 

I have told Nick that he is NOT to deal with me ever again, on the boards, on ebay, in emails.

 

I don't know how much clearer I can make that statement.

 

To seemingly drag my name around here as if I had intent to screw....

To file a paypal dispute against me (AS IF I HONESTLY WASNT GOING TO ISSUE A REFUND)...

 

I hope that everyone understands my position here when I say...

 

A) after all these years, if you honestly think I am that kind of person, stay away from my threads.

 

B) If you ever think that I issuing a refund within 24 to 48 hrs. isn't reasonable, because I either haven't cleared the fund or just simply NOT AT A COMPUTER, then don't deal with me.

 

Please respect the fact that after reading all this, I do not ever want to deal with Bosco685 again. To say that Nick blew this SO effin' out of proportion is putting it lightly.

 

ALSO...I am bringing the book with me to SDCC so I can show Gemma, Paul Litch and whoever else is there this "glue" substance so they can see for themselves what this is, and confirm for Nick and everyone else on the boards what I already know.

 

And then I am going to crack it out, get a Neil Gaiman signature series at san diego, and with any luck, it'll be a 9.8 :thumbsup: Because I never thought it was a 9.6 to begin with.

Edited July 20, 2009 by Rich_Henn

[Bosco685]

Please respect the fact that after reading all this, I do not ever want to deal with Bosco685 again. To say that Nick blew this SO effin' out of proportion is putting it lightly.

Rich, that is your right, and honestly, I am perfectly okay with this as the feeling is mutual now.

[Rich_Henn]

Please respect the fact that after reading all this, I do not ever want to deal with Bosco685 again. To say that Nick blew this SO effin' out of proportion is putting it lightly.

Rich, that is your right, and honestly, I am perfectly okay with this as the feeling is mutual now.

 

 

Finally. We agree on something.

[joeypost]

I seem to remember a similar ready, fire, aim situation that happened to Francisco or Bill over a slab that had the same issue. Book was sent back to CGC and it turned out to be nothing.

 

I am very sorry that one of the more vocal board members who is always giving out advice on how to handle situations here on the boards is unable to take his own advice to heart. And I am sorry you were the recipient of someone else stupidity Rich. Fortunately for you we all know the source, and it will very soon be water under the bridge.

[Bosco685]

Please respect the fact that after reading all this, I do not ever want to deal with Bosco685 again. To say that Nick blew this SO effin' out of proportion is putting it lightly.

Rich, that is your right, and honestly, I am perfectly okay with this as the feeling is mutual now.

Finally. We agree on something.

However you want to state this, that is fine.

 

I would have looked that case over completely and pointed out there is something on the bottom that is going to look odd. It occurred at CGC.

 

Lesson learned for us both!

[joeypost]

You posted your problem apparently on TWO SEPARATE THREADS. If I didn't read BOTH threads, I might not have gotten a complete picture of what the problem was and the resolution.

 

Perhaps in the future, you might want to confine it to ONE THREAD.

 

 

Shin,

 

Do you have a link to the other thread?