PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[HarveySwick]

What truer look at someone's reliability, trustworthiness and overall transactions with others than a feedback thread. Not just a "kudos" thread.

 

I think more people would be accountable for their actions much like on ebay. People fall all over themselves to keep all positive feedback and do whatever they can to make the buyer happy. Here, I don't think the Kudos thread is truly accurate if all it consists of are positive comments. Kind of defeats the purpose, right?

[MetalPSI]

Sorry for the brief responses - I was multitasking and writing on my phone.

 

Here is what I meant. I feel like the HOS is reserved for those with malicious INTENT to screw others over. Or when they are discovered, they could care less and actually give a big FU to the community and laugh it off. That's what I feel the HOS should be reserved for. I know I'm just a noob and you guys have all been here much longer than me, but that would be my thoughts about the HOS.

 

From my understanding of the menace situation, he's more of a guy that extended an opportunity and may have overextended himself. He screwed up. Isn't he addressing fixing that problem now. Maybe he's not handling it to the best of his ability, but he's trying no? He's not really a "menace" to these Boards. (see what I did there )

 

Guys like Ron Theda and Thomas Neeley and even solarcadet challenged the Boards. They openly undermined the community to the point of reveling in an "I'm better than the Boards" mentality. This is against any sort of community ideology. This guy menace - just screwed up. Is that REALLY someone worthy of the Hall of Shame? A place reserved for the all-time great scoundrels.

 

I still can't understand how the Kudos system is just for positive feedback. If people were allowed to share their full experience there, wouldn't that be much more effective? So if this guy screwed people over for an extended period of time (ultimately fixing the situation in the end) - wouldn't that be a good place for those wronged to express their dealings? That way people potentially dealing with him in the future may reconsider. I think that's much more ideal than simply lumping him with the "Hall of Shame".

 

I'm sorry if this is all rambling and been discussed before. Just my take on the situation.

 

While I agree with your line of thinking, Menace has shown the propensity to screw up ad infinitum. This isn't a new thing with him.

 

And, yes, the kudos forum is useless.

 

Sounds like a perfect candidate for the repeat offenders list.

I'd accept that. There should be something other than a PL and HOS. There is definitely a gray area where someone is constantly on and off the PL.

 

I just think a solution would be increasing the effectiveness of the Kudos thread. Make it a TRUE feedback thread rather than just "yay, they're awesome".

 

Its a good idea, but there is a lot of common sense and fear going into the fact it would turn into a flame war command post.

 

Which, stating my own experience, it would. And personally I have had enough of that elsewhere in the online world, why bring all that petty garbage here?

[HarveySwick]

Sorry for the brief responses - I was multitasking and writing on my phone.

 

Here is what I meant. I feel like the HOS is reserved for those with malicious INTENT to screw others over. Or when they are discovered, they could care less and actually give a big FU to the community and laugh it off. That's what I feel the HOS should be reserved for. I know I'm just a noob and you guys have all been here much longer than me, but that would be my thoughts about the HOS.

 

From my understanding of the menace situation, he's more of a guy that extended an opportunity and may have overextended himself. He screwed up. Isn't he addressing fixing that problem now. Maybe he's not handling it to the best of his ability, but he's trying no? He's not really a "menace" to these Boards. (see what I did there )

 

Guys like Ron Theda and Thomas Neeley and even solarcadet challenged the Boards. They openly undermined the community to the point of reveling in an "I'm better than the Boards" mentality. This is against any sort of community ideology. This guy menace - just screwed up. Is that REALLY someone worthy of the Hall of Shame? A place reserved for the all-time great scoundrels.

 

I still can't understand how the Kudos system is just for positive feedback. If people were allowed to share their full experience there, wouldn't that be much more effective? So if this guy screwed people over for an extended period of time (ultimately fixing the situation in the end) - wouldn't that be a good place for those wronged to express their dealings? That way people potentially dealing with him in the future may reconsider. I think that's much more ideal than simply lumping him with the "Hall of Shame".

 

I'm sorry if this is all rambling and been discussed before. Just my take on the situation.

 

While I agree with your line of thinking, Menace has shown the propensity to screw up ad infinitum. This isn't a new thing with him.

 

And, yes, the kudos forum is useless.

 

Sounds like a perfect candidate for the repeat offenders list.

I'd accept that. There should be something other than a PL and HOS. There is definitely a gray area where someone is constantly on and off the PL.

 

I just think a solution would be increasing the effectiveness of the Kudos thread. Make it a TRUE feedback thread rather than just "yay, they're awesome".

 

Its a good idea, but there is a lot of common sense and fear going into the fact it would turn into a flame war command post.

 

Which, stating my own experience, it would. And personally I have had enough of that elsewhere in the online world, why bring all that petty garbage here?

What do you suggest then to allow others to know whether a person is reliable or not? Just leave the HOS and PL alone?

 

There needs to be SOMETHING more. Otherwise, people could keep getting put on the PL and off of the PL. And then do we just move them to the HOS? That isn't really the same thing as a member truly being "HOS worthy".

[Speedy-D]

Sorry for the brief responses - I was multitasking and writing on my phone.

 

Here is what I meant. I feel like the HOS is reserved for those with malicious INTENT to screw others over. Or when they are discovered, they could care less and actually give a big FU to the community and laugh it off. That's what I feel the HOS should be reserved for. I know I'm just a noob and you guys have all been here much longer than me, but that would be my thoughts about the HOS.

 

From my understanding of the menace situation, he's more of a guy that extended an opportunity and may have overextended himself. He screwed up. Isn't he addressing fixing that problem now. Maybe he's not handling it to the best of his ability, but he's trying no? He's not really a "menace" to these Boards. (see what I did there )

 

Guys like Ron Theda and Thomas Neeley and even solarcadet challenged the Boards. They openly undermined the community to the point of reveling in an "I'm better than the Boards" mentality. This is against any sort of community ideology. This guy menace - just screwed up. Is that REALLY someone worthy of the Hall of Shame? A place reserved for the all-time great scoundrels.

 

I still can't understand how the Kudos system is just for positive feedback. If people were allowed to share their full experience there, wouldn't that be much more effective? So if this guy screwed people over for an extended period of time (ultimately fixing the situation in the end) - wouldn't that be a good place for those wronged to express their dealings? That way people potentially dealing with him in the future may reconsider. I think that's much more ideal than simply lumping him with the "Hall of Shame".

 

I'm sorry if this is all rambling and been discussed before. Just my take on the situation.

 

While I agree with your line of thinking, Menace has shown the propensity to screw up ad infinitum. This isn't a new thing with him.

 

And, yes, the kudos forum is useless.

 

Sounds like a perfect candidate for the repeat offenders list.

I'd accept that. There should be something other than a PL and HOS. There is definitely a gray area where someone is constantly on and off the PL.

 

I just think a solution would be increasing the effectiveness of the Kudos thread. Make it a TRUE feedback thread rather than just "yay, they're awesome".

The mods have said that they don't want a positive/negative feedback system because it'll too frequently deteriorate to squabbling, hard feelings and strikes.

 

And remember, getting on the PL is permanent to a certain extent. Even after being removed, all of the previous posts with your name on them are still there for all to see.

[HarveySwick]

Sorry for the brief responses - I was multitasking and writing on my phone.

 

Here is what I meant. I feel like the HOS is reserved for those with malicious INTENT to screw others over. Or when they are discovered, they could care less and actually give a big FU to the community and laugh it off. That's what I feel the HOS should be reserved for. I know I'm just a noob and you guys have all been here much longer than me, but that would be my thoughts about the HOS.

 

From my understanding of the menace situation, he's more of a guy that extended an opportunity and may have overextended himself. He screwed up. Isn't he addressing fixing that problem now. Maybe he's not handling it to the best of his ability, but he's trying no? He's not really a "menace" to these Boards. (see what I did there )

 

Guys like Ron Theda and Thomas Neeley and even solarcadet challenged the Boards. They openly undermined the community to the point of reveling in an "I'm better than the Boards" mentality. This is against any sort of community ideology. This guy menace - just screwed up. Is that REALLY someone worthy of the Hall of Shame? A place reserved for the all-time great scoundrels.

 

I still can't understand how the Kudos system is just for positive feedback. If people were allowed to share their full experience there, wouldn't that be much more effective? So if this guy screwed people over for an extended period of time (ultimately fixing the situation in the end) - wouldn't that be a good place for those wronged to express their dealings? That way people potentially dealing with him in the future may reconsider. I think that's much more ideal than simply lumping him with the "Hall of Shame".

 

I'm sorry if this is all rambling and been discussed before. Just my take on the situation.

 

While I agree with your line of thinking, Menace has shown the propensity to screw up ad infinitum. This isn't a new thing with him.

 

And, yes, the kudos forum is useless.

 

Sounds like a perfect candidate for the repeat offenders list.

I'd accept that. There should be something other than a PL and HOS. There is definitely a gray area where someone is constantly on and off the PL.

 

I just think a solution would be increasing the effectiveness of the Kudos thread. Make it a TRUE feedback thread rather than just "yay, they're awesome".

The mods have said that they don't want a positive/negative feedback system because it'll too frequently deteriorate to squabbling, hard feelings and strikes.

 

And remember, getting on the PL is permanent to a certain extent. Even after being removed, all of the previous posts with your name on them are still there for all to see.

Maybe I don't fully understand the PL then. Other than someone going backwards through the history of the PL thread, there really is no where the person's name is listed, if they are removed, on the most current update, right?

 

And instead of squabbling in one's Kudos thread, why couldn't it be treated like the PL thread? No discussions. Just feedback.

[Sqeggs]

Sorry for the brief responses - I was multitasking and writing on my phone.

 

Here is what I meant. I feel like the HOS is reserved for those with malicious INTENT to screw others over. Or when they are discovered, they could care less and actually give a big FU to the community and laugh it off. That's what I feel the HOS should be reserved for. I know I'm just a noob and you guys have all been here much longer than me, but that would be my thoughts about the HOS.

 

From my understanding of the menace situation, he's more of a guy that extended an opportunity and may have overextended himself. He screwed up. Isn't he addressing fixing that problem now. Maybe he's not handling it to the best of his ability, but he's trying no? He's not really a "menace" to these Boards. (see what I did there )

 

Guys like Ron Theda and Thomas Neeley and even solarcadet challenged the Boards. They openly undermined the community to the point of reveling in an "I'm better than the Boards" mentality. This is against any sort of community ideology. This guy menace - just screwed up. Is that REALLY someone worthy of the Hall of Shame? A place reserved for the all-time great scoundrels.

 

I still can't understand how the Kudos system is just for positive feedback. If people were allowed to share their full experience there, wouldn't that be much more effective? So if this guy screwed people over for an extended period of time (ultimately fixing the situation in the end) - wouldn't that be a good place for those wronged to express their dealings? That way people potentially dealing with him in the future may reconsider. I think that's much more ideal than simply lumping him with the "Hall of Shame".

 

I'm sorry if this is all rambling and been discussed before. Just my take on the situation.

 

While I agree with your line of thinking, Menace has shown the propensity to screw up ad infinitum. This isn't a new thing with him.

 

And, yes, the kudos forum is useless.

 

Sounds like a perfect candidate for the repeat offenders list.

I'd accept that. There should be something other than a PL and HOS. There is definitely a gray area where someone is constantly on and off the PL.

 

I just think a solution would be increasing the effectiveness of the Kudos thread. Make it a TRUE feedback thread rather than just "yay, they're awesome".

The mods have said that they don't want a positive/negative feedback system because it'll too frequently deteriorate to squabbling, hard feelings and strikes.

 

And remember, getting on the PL is permanent to a certain extent. Even after being removed, all of the previous posts with your name on them are still there for all to see.

 

I'm not sure that Arch, et al., would necessarily be opposed if they felt the community wanted the kudos threads converted to true feedback threads. However, whenever the issue has been raised, there has been significant opposition from board members. So there has never been anything like the consensus we would need to approach Arch about it.

 

We are left with the unfortunate situation that buyers have no easy of way of finding out if someone is a marginal seller -- slow shipper, lousy grader, poor packer, etc. -- unless the poor performance rises to the level of a PL nomination.

 

But given current sentiment on the board, there doesn't seem to be any alternative to the current system. My fear is that problems will eventually accumulate to the point that Arch decides to pull the plug on the sales threads.

[skypinkblu]

Sorry for the brief responses - I was multitasking and writing on my phone.

 

Here is what I meant. I feel like the HOS is reserved for those with malicious INTENT to screw others over. Or when they are discovered, they could care less and actually give a big FU to the community and laugh it off. That's what I feel the HOS should be reserved for. I know I'm just a noob and you guys have all been here much longer than me, but that would be my thoughts about the HOS.

 

From my understanding of the menace situation, he's more of a guy that extended an opportunity and may have overextended himself. He screwed up. Isn't he addressing fixing that problem now. Maybe he's not handling it to the best of his ability, but he's trying no? He's not really a "menace" to these Boards. (see what I did there )

 

Guys like Ron Theda and Thomas Neeley and even solarcadet challenged the Boards. They openly undermined the community to the point of reveling in an "I'm better than the Boards" mentality. This is against any sort of community ideology. This guy menace - just screwed up. Is that REALLY someone worthy of the Hall of Shame? A place reserved for the all-time great scoundrels.

 

I still can't understand how the Kudos system is just for positive feedback. If people were allowed to share their full experience there, wouldn't that be much more effective? So if this guy screwed people over for an extended period of time (ultimately fixing the situation in the end) - wouldn't that be a good place for those wronged to express their dealings? That way people potentially dealing with him in the future may reconsider. I think that's much more ideal than simply lumping him with the "Hall of Shame".

 

I'm sorry if this is all rambling and been discussed before. Just my take on the situation.

 

While I agree with your line of thinking, Menace has shown the propensity to screw up ad infinitum. This isn't a new thing with him.

 

And, yes, the kudos forum is useless.

 

Sounds like a perfect candidate for the repeat offenders list.

I'd accept that. There should be something other than a PL and HOS. There is definitely a gray area where someone is constantly on and off the PL.

 

I just think a solution would be increasing the effectiveness of the Kudos thread. Make it a TRUE feedback thread rather than just "yay, they're awesome".

The mods have said that they don't want a positive/negative feedback system because it'll too frequently deteriorate to squabbling, hard feelings and strikes.

 

And remember, getting on the PL is permanent to a certain extent. Even after being removed, all of the previous posts with your name on them are still there for all to see.

Maybe I don't fully understand the PL then. Other than someone going backwards through the history of the PL thread, there really is no where the person's name is listed, if they are removed, on the most current update, right?

 

And instead of squabbling in one's Kudos thread, why couldn't it be treated like the PL thread? No discussions. Just feedback.

 

Simple, Arch will not allow it. He made that very clear when he set up the threads and Arch is the boss here.

He's pretty laid back about most stuff, but he's been adamant about positive feedback only.

[Dr. Balls]

We are left with the unfortunate situation that buyers have no easy of way of finding out if someone is a marginal seller -- slow shipper, lousy grader, poor packer, etc. -- unless the poor performance rises to the level of a PL nomination.

 

But given current sentiment on the board, there doesn't seem to be any alternative to the current system. My fear is that problems will eventually accumulate to the point that Arch decides to pull the plug on the sales threads.

 

+1

 

I agree.

[Sqeggs]

Sorry for the brief responses - I was multitasking and writing on my phone.

 

Here is what I meant. I feel like the HOS is reserved for those with malicious INTENT to screw others over. Or when they are discovered, they could care less and actually give a big FU to the community and laugh it off. That's what I feel the HOS should be reserved for. I know I'm just a noob and you guys have all been here much longer than me, but that would be my thoughts about the HOS.

 

From my understanding of the menace situation, he's more of a guy that extended an opportunity and may have overextended himself. He screwed up. Isn't he addressing fixing that problem now. Maybe he's not handling it to the best of his ability, but he's trying no? He's not really a "menace" to these Boards. (see what I did there )

 

Guys like Ron Theda and Thomas Neeley and even solarcadet challenged the Boards. They openly undermined the community to the point of reveling in an "I'm better than the Boards" mentality. This is against any sort of community ideology. This guy menace - just screwed up. Is that REALLY someone worthy of the Hall of Shame? A place reserved for the all-time great scoundrels.

 

I still can't understand how the Kudos system is just for positive feedback. If people were allowed to share their full experience there, wouldn't that be much more effective? So if this guy screwed people over for an extended period of time (ultimately fixing the situation in the end) - wouldn't that be a good place for those wronged to express their dealings? That way people potentially dealing with him in the future may reconsider. I think that's much more ideal than simply lumping him with the "Hall of Shame".

 

I'm sorry if this is all rambling and been discussed before. Just my take on the situation.

 

While I agree with your line of thinking, Menace has shown the propensity to screw up ad infinitum. This isn't a new thing with him.

 

And, yes, the kudos forum is useless.

 

Sounds like a perfect candidate for the repeat offenders list.

I'd accept that. There should be something other than a PL and HOS. There is definitely a gray area where someone is constantly on and off the PL.

 

I just think a solution would be increasing the effectiveness of the Kudos thread. Make it a TRUE feedback thread rather than just "yay, they're awesome".

The mods have said that they don't want a positive/negative feedback system because it'll too frequently deteriorate to squabbling, hard feelings and strikes.

 

And remember, getting on the PL is permanent to a certain extent. Even after being removed, all of the previous posts with your name on them are still there for all to see.

Maybe I don't fully understand the PL then. Other than someone going backwards through the history of the PL thread, there really is no where the person's name is listed, if they are removed, on the most current update, right?

 

And instead of squabbling in one's Kudos thread, why couldn't it be treated like the PL thread? No discussions. Just feedback.

 

I'm sympathetic to your argument, but you would have to give the person a chance to defend himself, wouldn't you? I suppose you could allow one response to the original negative feedback and that would be it. Still, though, I don't think there is sufficient support for true feedback threads.

[Matthew42383]

So it's been a month. Blbcomics still doesn't respond to me. He hasn't mailed the items from last May, like he's promised to again. It's Xmas now, and as the po is closed on christmas here his time is up. Again. Still no 3600 refund. Still no 341 pulps. Still no answering phone calls. Now that I have jumped through the proper hoops, I'd like him admitted to the HOS. Please take a vote on it. Oh. And I'm posting the trash below that was taken from his facebook account. If I read it correctly, and compare it with Jean Bails statement that she has not recieved any money yet from the guy after 7 years now posted earlier this month by her on facebook, may I just ask that if Jerry had a collection worth over a quarter of a million, and Robert here sold at least half of it to help her out, for well over 100K to one buyer, long long ago as he states here, why after 7 years has the widow still recieved nothing?

 

Don't try to read the whole thing. Just the bold part at the beginning about Jerry's art that he sold will be good enough to prove my point. Bob deserves to be in jail. The HOS vote should be simple enough.

 

Oh and the having no money to mail books or refund me things is bs. I've just spent the last hour looking at photos from the California Comicon in October. He was there answering questions on the board as a "Comic book authority". Can spend thousands to travel across the country for half a week to talk at a convention when he needs all his money to save his daughters life with cancer treatments, but can't spend 100 bucks on shipping charges.

 

Bob's priorities go like this.

 

1. I'm awesome and you need to know it.

2. Making your money into his money by any means possible.

3. Daughter.

4. Everything else.

 

You've heard the evidence. People have chimed in. Now please start the vote.

 

Robert Beerbohm's facebook post from Dec. 10:

 

CGC is a Ponzi Scheme Fraud which should be exposed for the harm it does to the hobby of collecting comic books.

I have heard many horror stories about this firm Comics 'Guarantee' Corporation which guarantees nothing except take your money and leave you out to dry dangling in the wind dating back to its inception.

CGC plays "favorites" with a certain inner circle few who receive preferential treatment over the vast majority of its "clients."

CGC damages collector's comic books, then basicly tells the hapless victim to go themselves. This is what happened to the Jerry Bails copy of All Star Comics #8 when his widow Jean Bails asked me in early 2007 to broker the remnants of the founder of comics fandom.

 

I sold the art he had left in one package to one person for well over $100K. That came off with out a hitch.

 

So many "experts" in the field of vintage comic books insisted I had to have what was left of his All Star Comics collection 4-32 34 35 37-57 "certified" in coffin slabs by this firm CGC located in Florida.

 

That I would be doing an injustice if I did not.

 

Turned in to a nightmare

 

CGC damaged All Star Comics #7 getting a swath of two inch wide packaging tape across the front cover. Whoops

 

Popped the lower staple on its gem key first Wonder Woman appearance All Star #8 - and when I stated to them their insurance company should pay a check directly to Jean, they told me to go myself

 

When I informed Jean Bails of this turn of events, asked her as owner to call CGC direct, they told her to off

 

And then tried to shift this blame on to me as if I had done this damage

 

CGC is a liar fraud company and it is high time they are exposed for the fraud they have been to many an unsuspecting collector

 

Several prominent collector persons local to me here inspected the comics before I placed them in a jewelers display briefcase, boarded a plane to Florida, hand delivered the All Star Comics to them in good faith

 

As one enters CGC HQ there is a glass enclosed conference room to the left. I was directed in to its confines. Therein then head grader Steve Borock, 2nd head dude Mark Haspiel, and 3rd honcho West Stephens all inspected the goods.

 

Mark & West were closely examining Jerry Bails' All Stars marveling at many of them. Oh, sez Mark, the #5 looks to be a Mile High Comics issue

 

Wow, they go, #6 is Tom "San Francisco" Reilly copy

 

Damn, #19 looks like it also is a Mile High.

 

Then they get to Jerry Bails All Star #8. They all stop, look at very very closely. Mark and West say to me it looks like it will come in as the "highest graded copy" they have ever seen.

 

I knew it to be a nice one. So did the locals who marveled at Jerry's All Stars.

 

Two months later Steve Borock brings the two boxes of slabbed up coffins to me Wednesday afternoon at San Diego Comicon.

 

He makes quick mention of some accident wherein at CGC some unknown employee had gotten two inch wide package mailing tape on the front cover of the #7 - so they were adjusting something or other on it

 

He then goes to leave, and I say wait a sec, let me flip thru these first

 

He paused. I flip a bit, hit the #8 very curious to see where it came out. I see instead the Purple Kiss of Death label on it

 

The All Star #8 label also says "bottom staple popped and loose" or some such

 

I say, "What is this? Bottom staple loose from book? That is impossible"

 

Steve says he has more books to deliver, and quickly departs, leaving me there basicly with my proverbial in my hand, pondering WTF?

 

Several locals had inspected it. Steve, Mark Haspiel, West Stephens has all inspected it at CGC World HQ in Florida. No one prior had seen and/or made mention of a lower bottom popped staple

 

As I stare at the All Star #8 in its hard plastic coffin, along walks Matt Nelson, who does restoration works for a lot of people for years, presses books to make them higher grades, now works directly for CGC in its HQ plying his trade

 

I ask him if he has has very much experience with opening one of these plastic coffins up. He says Yes, and proceeds to show me how it is done.

 

He carefully pulls out the All Star #8, carefully, slowly, opens the All Star #8 and the FIRST thing either one of us sees is this gaping hole where the book used to be firm snug as a bug at its lower staple

 

CGC for what ever reason damaged this All Star #8 - when I dropped them off, they were categorically stating it looked like it would come in "highest graded copy"

 

CGC also stated it had a drop of glue at the bottom of the bottom staple PLUS a drop of "color touch" same spot - Huh?

 

Now, this magical drop of glue and drop of color touch is one thing - and I would not put it past some one there to have done that

 

BUT, for the staple to pull away from its mooring while in their custody is quite another.

 

Incensed a bit, when getting no where with CGC employee types I called up CGC co-owners Steve Geppi as well as Jim Halpren, also an owner in Heritage Comics Auctions to see about proper compensation for Jean Bails. Not for me. I said to them I think CGC's insurance company should buy this All Star #8 from Jean - and mail her a check directly

 

I was blown off with both saying while they each own a piece of CGC, they have no sway in the firm's operations. Odd, I thought, CGC owners have no say in getting the firm to do the right thing for Jerry Bail's widow?

 

So I took the case on to CGC's internal form many call "the boards"

 

A small cabal started attacking me thereon as if I had damaged Jerry's All Star #8. And the sociopathic attacks have been on-going ever since

 

The above is the public record truth. There is more detail, but I hope most of the gist of this I have laid out that CGC damaged Jerry's All Star #7 and #8 - and will not provide proper recompense direct to Jean Bails

 

This is not about me. It is about justice being served.

 

I would have addressed and attacked this stronger earlier since this happened summer of 2007, but I fell in to a medical repair imbroglio which lasted well over half a decade.

 

I am back, I am out raged, I hope you are also. If you are, please share this far and wide, press on CGC to do the right thing, compensate Jean Bails properly. Don't just tell her and myself to off.

 

Thank you for reading this far, and, again, share with your friends. There are other horror stories CGC has perped on collector.

Here is what the front and back to All Star #8 scanned as before taking Jerry's collection down to Florida to CGC World HQ -

[HarveySwick]

Sorry for the brief responses - I was multitasking and writing on my phone.

 

Here is what I meant. I feel like the HOS is reserved for those with malicious INTENT to screw others over. Or when they are discovered, they could care less and actually give a big FU to the community and laugh it off. That's what I feel the HOS should be reserved for. I know I'm just a noob and you guys have all been here much longer than me, but that would be my thoughts about the HOS.

 

From my understanding of the menace situation, he's more of a guy that extended an opportunity and may have overextended himself. He screwed up. Isn't he addressing fixing that problem now. Maybe he's not handling it to the best of his ability, but he's trying no? He's not really a "menace" to these Boards. (see what I did there )

 

Guys like Ron Theda and Thomas Neeley and even solarcadet challenged the Boards. They openly undermined the community to the point of reveling in an "I'm better than the Boards" mentality. This is against any sort of community ideology. This guy menace - just screwed up. Is that REALLY someone worthy of the Hall of Shame? A place reserved for the all-time great scoundrels.

 

I still can't understand how the Kudos system is just for positive feedback. If people were allowed to share their full experience there, wouldn't that be much more effective? So if this guy screwed people over for an extended period of time (ultimately fixing the situation in the end) - wouldn't that be a good place for those wronged to express their dealings? That way people potentially dealing with him in the future may reconsider. I think that's much more ideal than simply lumping him with the "Hall of Shame".

 

I'm sorry if this is all rambling and been discussed before. Just my take on the situation.

 

While I agree with your line of thinking, Menace has shown the propensity to screw up ad infinitum. This isn't a new thing with him.

 

And, yes, the kudos forum is useless.

 

Sounds like a perfect candidate for the repeat offenders list.

I'd accept that. There should be something other than a PL and HOS. There is definitely a gray area where someone is constantly on and off the PL.

 

I just think a solution would be increasing the effectiveness of the Kudos thread. Make it a TRUE feedback thread rather than just "yay, they're awesome".

The mods have said that they don't want a positive/negative feedback system because it'll too frequently deteriorate to squabbling, hard feelings and strikes.

 

And remember, getting on the PL is permanent to a certain extent. Even after being removed, all of the previous posts with your name on them are still there for all to see.

Maybe I don't fully understand the PL then. Other than someone going backwards through the history of the PL thread, there really is no where the person's name is listed, if they are removed, on the most current update, right?

 

And instead of squabbling in one's Kudos thread, why couldn't it be treated like the PL thread? No discussions. Just feedback.

 

I'm sympathetic to your argument, but you would have to give the person a chance to defend himself, wouldn't you? I suppose you could allow one response to the original negative feedback and that would be it. Still, though, I don't think there is sufficient support for true feedback threads.

That would work. Much like ebay's system. The first person shares their experience and that's it. One response allowed. And if that person comes across as a raving lunatic in that response, wouldn't that be telling in of itself if a potential buyer/seller wants to deal with this person.

[HarveySwick]

Sorry for the brief responses - I was multitasking and writing on my phone.

 

Here is what I meant. I feel like the HOS is reserved for those with malicious INTENT to screw others over. Or when they are discovered, they could care less and actually give a big FU to the community and laugh it off. That's what I feel the HOS should be reserved for. I know I'm just a noob and you guys have all been here much longer than me, but that would be my thoughts about the HOS.

 

From my understanding of the menace situation, he's more of a guy that extended an opportunity and may have overextended himself. He screwed up. Isn't he addressing fixing that problem now. Maybe he's not handling it to the best of his ability, but he's trying no? He's not really a "menace" to these Boards. (see what I did there )

 

Guys like Ron Theda and Thomas Neeley and even solarcadet challenged the Boards. They openly undermined the community to the point of reveling in an "I'm better than the Boards" mentality. This is against any sort of community ideology. This guy menace - just screwed up. Is that REALLY someone worthy of the Hall of Shame? A place reserved for the all-time great scoundrels.

 

I still can't understand how the Kudos system is just for positive feedback. If people were allowed to share their full experience there, wouldn't that be much more effective? So if this guy screwed people over for an extended period of time (ultimately fixing the situation in the end) - wouldn't that be a good place for those wronged to express their dealings? That way people potentially dealing with him in the future may reconsider. I think that's much more ideal than simply lumping him with the "Hall of Shame".

 

I'm sorry if this is all rambling and been discussed before. Just my take on the situation.

 

While I agree with your line of thinking, Menace has shown the propensity to screw up ad infinitum. This isn't a new thing with him.

 

And, yes, the kudos forum is useless.

 

Sounds like a perfect candidate for the repeat offenders list.

I'd accept that. There should be something other than a PL and HOS. There is definitely a gray area where someone is constantly on and off the PL.

 

I just think a solution would be increasing the effectiveness of the Kudos thread. Make it a TRUE feedback thread rather than just "yay, they're awesome".

The mods have said that they don't want a positive/negative feedback system because it'll too frequently deteriorate to squabbling, hard feelings and strikes.

 

And remember, getting on the PL is permanent to a certain extent. Even after being removed, all of the previous posts with your name on them are still there for all to see.

 

 

I'm not sure that Arch, et al., would necessarily be opposed if they felt the community wanted the kudos threads converted to true feedback threads. However, whenever the issue has been raised, there has been significant opposition from board members. So there has never been anything like the consensus we would need to approach Arch about it.

 

We are left with the unfortunate situation that buyers have no easy of way of finding out if someone is a marginal seller -- slow shipper, lousy grader, poor packer, etc. -- unless the poor performance rises to the level of a PL nomination

 

But given current sentiment on the board, there doesn't seem to be any alternative to the current system. My fear is that problems will eventually accumulate to the point that Arch decides to pull the plug on the sales threads.

I think the emphasized point is the real issue. I've only been here a year. I could tell you who is on the PL/HOS list very easily obviously. But unless I did some serious digging, I'm not going to know who was on the PL before or the past history of some sellers/buyers.

 

And I am also worried about the idea of Arch pulling the plug on the sales forum. That would be such a loss if people couldn't handle affairs like adults and follow some simple rules and guidelines.

[Speedy-D]

So it's been a month. Blbcomics still doesn't respond to me. He hasn't mailed the items from last May, like he's promised to again. It's Xmas now, and as the po is closed on christmas here his time is up. Again. Still no 3600 refund. Still no 341 pulps. Still no answering phone calls. Now that I have jumped through the proper hoops, I'd like him admitted to the HOS.

He's been banned from the site: http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7249945#Post7249945

[Bosco685]

[Speedy-D]

Why are people worried about the sales forums getting killed? They're doing just fine...we get scammers from time to time, and usually they're outed right away. We get people who slack off and we put them on the PL. The system isn't perfect and it never will be, but don't get too worked up.

[Speedy-D]

Or we could discuss simple color coded star ratings for transactions...then segue nicely into the old days when you could rate each post with stars...then we could chuckle over Greggy's rating whoever's every post one star 'cuz it annoyed him so.

[Ryan.]

The sales forum here acts as a great self-feeding promotional tool for CGC. Killing that off would seem to be counter-productive.

[Matthew42383]

I want him in the HOS as well.

 

He was banned so he can't talk on here. Great. Could care less.

 

But when a google search comes up he isn't on the HOS list. The point of the HOS list is to get people to stop spending money with him. I'm sure board members will still buy from him on ebay if you don't make them aware.

 

We were both board members at the time he made his promise on here to ship again. I've gone through all the hoops and waited the requistite amount of time to get him in the HOS.

 

So please call the vote.

 

 

[jaybuck43]

I have the materials together to put it to a vote Re Beerbohm and could start it as early as tonight, the question is should there be a vote on him being added to the HoS. We have precedence of banned members being added (thehouseofcomics and red rocks come to mind) What do you guys think?

[HarveySwick]

I think we're trying to still figure out the whole menace thing.