PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[EC ed]

That sounds like a fair settlement.

 

It would be more fair if the original deal was reconstructed in full, which would mean that buyer pays the originally agreed upon price. Not sure how buyer's acceptance of free books makes things fair.

[Red84]

That sounds like a fair settlement.

 

It would be more fair if the original deal was reconstructed in full, which would mean that buyer pays the originally agreed upon price. Not sure how buyer's acceptance of free books makes things fair.

 

Agreed.

[LarrysComics]

I'm at fault.

I will send your order NO charge in the am.

They will be screened 9.8 candidates.

 

That would be one heck of a gesture. I'll be sure to let everyone on the board know about it if you follow through with it.

 

I'll send them in the morning..

ONLY because I dragged my refunding you.

 

You're practicing a predatory ordering tactic on sellers.

You're DEAD WRONG in how you are behaving.

 

I hope you grasp this..

It sickens me to reward you.

 

But, going forward I have a policy in place.

 

Edited March 13, 2015 by LarrysComics

[skypinkblu]

That sounds like a fair settlement.

 

It would be more fair if the original deal was reconstructed in full, which would mean that buyer pays the originally agreed upon price. Not sure how buyer's acceptance of free books makes things fair.

 

You are correct, I was going to add the words "more than" and I should have.

 

I was hoping that everyone would shake hands without too much more "spooning" so I took a short cut. Mea Culpa.

[EC ed]

You are correct, I was going to add the words "more than" and I should have.

 

I was hoping that everyone would shake hands without too much more "spooning" so I took a short cut. Mea Culpa.

 

[wombat]

I'm at fault.

I will send your order NO charge in the am.

They will be screened 9.8 candidates.

 

That would be one heck of a gesture. I'll be sure to let everyone on the board know about it if you follow through with it.

 

I'll send them in the morning..

ONLY because I dragged my refunding you.

 

You're practicing a predatory ordering tactic on sellers.

You're DEAD WRONG in how you are behaving.

 

I hope you grasp this..

It sickens me to reward you.

 

But, going forward I have a policy in place.

 

This sounds insane. Predatory ordering tactic? You could have simply replied and said you are not guaranteeing grades and do you still want your order. Pretty simple.

[RockMyAmadeus]

When I said "I'd really appreciate it if you could pick out copies with 9.8 potential for me," I simply meant that I'd like it if Larry (or whoever packs his books) could just take a second to make sure that the books that were being sent to me looked good. Shame on me for wanting nice copies.

 

As I said in the other thread...if you want 9.8 copies, you should 1. examine them in person; 2. offer to compensate the seller for his time and expertise to get you 9.8 copies; 3. buy an already slabbed 9.8.

 

You can't say "well, what I *meant* was...." when you clearly said you wanted 9.8 potential copies, yet didn't offer to compensate Larry for the time and effort to make that happen.

 

If you want "better than average" copies (and 9.8s are ALWAYS better than average), you need to be willing and ready to compensate the seller for that request, proactively.

 

Getting 9.8s requires skill, patience, gentleness, and expertise. It isn't as if you can go to any store and pick the first copy you see and it will be a 9.8 potential copy.

 

Not excusing anything else Larry did. He should have refunded you instantly.

[LarrysComics]

I'm at fault.

I will send your order NO charge in the am.

They will be screened 9.8 candidates.

 

That would be one heck of a gesture. I'll be sure to let everyone on the board know about it if you follow through with it.

 

I'll send them in the morning..

ONLY because I dragged my refunding you.

 

You're practicing a predatory ordering tactic on sellers.

You're DEAD WRONG in how you are behaving.

 

I hope you grasp this..

It sickens me to reward you.

 

But, going forward I have a policy in place.

 

This sounds insane. Predatory ordering tactic? You could have simply replied and said you are not guaranteeing grades and do you still want your order. Pretty simple.

 

Yes.

I should have refunded him from the get go.

THAT'S why I'm honoring the deal with his added criteria.

 

 

[comix4fun]

When I said "I'd really appreciate it if you could pick out copies with 9.8 potential for me," I simply meant that I'd like it if Larry (or whoever packs his books) could just take a second to make sure that the books that were being sent to me looked good. Shame on me for wanting nice copies.

 

As I said in the other thread...if you want 9.8 copies, you should 1. examine them in person; 2. offer to compensate the seller for his time and expertise to get you 9.8 copies; 3. buy an already slabbed 9.8.

 

You can't say "well, what I *meant* was...." when you clearly said you wanted 9.8 potential copies, yet didn't offer to compensate Larry for the time and effort to make that happen.

 

If you want "better than average" copies (and 9.8s are ALWAYS better than average), you need to be willing and ready to compensate the seller for that request, proactively.

 

Getting 9.8s requires skill, patience, gentleness, and expertise. It isn't as if you can go to any store and pick the first copy you see and it will be a 9.8 potential copy.

 

Not excusing anything else Larry did. He should have refunded you instantly.

 

 

Well, really, these were brand new copies straight from the case. They are basically the uncirculated coins of the comic world. So, yeah, they start their life as 9.8s unless there's a print run issue or a ham handed delivery guy or shipping minion.

 

We aren't talking about coppers, or even back issues. Hell, we aren't even talking about an issue on the racks. These are "pre-rack". I wouldn't call pulling a 9.8 out of a distributor's case any kind of skill. A book gets hot 6 months or 6 years down the road then there's something worth paying a premium.

 

There's a reason why moderns don't sell in 9.4 or 9.6 slabs right after release (with some rare exceptions). It's because so damn many of them are 9.8's from the jump.

 

None of that is really relevant here thought. The buyer didn't require anything of the seller. He didn't make it a condition of the sale. It's simply an overreaction that could have been rectified with a single email exchange and not a month's wait followed by a refund followed by a promise to ship anyway followed by claims of being prey.

 

All that drama would have been avoided with a simple bit of follow up email. 15 seconds to say "No guarantees on 9.8, it's traveling internationally. But take heart, we are pulling NM or better copies for all customers. If that's not ok, tell me now and I'll refund you." We could have saved all that followed.

[RockMyAmadeus]

The word "potential" was used for a reason.

 

At not point did I state that I expected to get books guaranteed to grade at 9.8. I was just looking for ones without visible flaws. That isn't unreasonable. And do you think I want to be returning things to the US from Canada? Of course not. That's why it doesn't hurt to ask a seller to make sure he's sending you high-grade comics when he's got a stack of 3,000 or so to pick from.

 

Sorry, but that's not how the current market views the word "potential", and Larry, in this instance, is correct. You didn't ask him to send "high-grade comics"...you asked for 9.8 potentials. Worlds of difference.

 

I'm not defending Larry...after all, the guy got his third strike for calling me a fat slob out of the blue a few months ago...but what you requested was not within reason, despite how you worded it (and are defending said wording after the fact.)

 

If you want a seller to pick out excellent copies, you should offer to compensate him for that up front.

[RockMyAmadeus]

When I said "I'd really appreciate it if you could pick out copies with 9.8 potential for me," I simply meant that I'd like it if Larry (or whoever packs his books) could just take a second to make sure that the books that were being sent to me looked good. Shame on me for wanting nice copies.

 

As I said in the other thread...if you want 9.8 copies, you should 1. examine them in person; 2. offer to compensate the seller for his time and expertise to get you 9.8 copies; 3. buy an already slabbed 9.8.

 

You can't say "well, what I *meant* was...." when you clearly said you wanted 9.8 potential copies, yet didn't offer to compensate Larry for the time and effort to make that happen.

 

If you want "better than average" copies (and 9.8s are ALWAYS better than average), you need to be willing and ready to compensate the seller for that request, proactively.

 

Getting 9.8s requires skill, patience, gentleness, and expertise. It isn't as if you can go to any store and pick the first copy you see and it will be a 9.8 potential copy.

 

Not excusing anything else Larry did. He should have refunded you instantly.

 

 

Well, really, these were brand new copies straight from the case. They are basically the uncirculated coins of the comic world. So, yeah, they start their life as 9.8s unless there's a print run issue or a ham handed delivery guy or shipping minion.

 

We aren't talking about coppers, or even back issues. Hell, we aren't even talking about an issue on the racks. These are "pre-rack". I wouldn't call pulling a 9.8 out of a distributor's case any kind of skill. A book gets hot 6 months or 6 years down the road then there's something worth paying a premium.

 

There's a reason why moderns don't sell in 9.4 or 9.6 slabs right after release (with some rare exceptions). It's because so damn many of them are 9.8's from the jump.

 

 

Oh, no doubt...most books from a brand new case are likely 9.8 copies.

 

But....

 

There's a difference between picking up a random copy, with no effort involved, and lucking out on it being a 9.8 copy...

 

...and actually applying effort to examine and make sure it is.

 

"9.8 potential" means it's probably going to be, barring some weird occurrence, a 9.8.

 

It's not all that easy, even with books straight out of the case.

[comix4fun]

When I said "I'd really appreciate it if you could pick out copies with 9.8 potential for me," I simply meant that I'd like it if Larry (or whoever packs his books) could just take a second to make sure that the books that were being sent to me looked good. Shame on me for wanting nice copies.

 

As I said in the other thread...if you want 9.8 copies, you should 1. examine them in person; 2. offer to compensate the seller for his time and expertise to get you 9.8 copies; 3. buy an already slabbed 9.8.

 

You can't say "well, what I *meant* was...." when you clearly said you wanted 9.8 potential copies, yet didn't offer to compensate Larry for the time and effort to make that happen.

 

If you want "better than average" copies (and 9.8s are ALWAYS better than average), you need to be willing and ready to compensate the seller for that request, proactively.

 

Getting 9.8s requires skill, patience, gentleness, and expertise. It isn't as if you can go to any store and pick the first copy you see and it will be a 9.8 potential copy.

 

Not excusing anything else Larry did. He should have refunded you instantly.

 

 

Well, really, these were brand new copies straight from the case. They are basically the uncirculated coins of the comic world. So, yeah, they start their life as 9.8s unless there's a print run issue or a ham handed delivery guy or shipping minion.

 

We aren't talking about coppers, or even back issues. Hell, we aren't even talking about an issue on the racks. These are "pre-rack". I wouldn't call pulling a 9.8 out of a distributor's case any kind of skill. A book gets hot 6 months or 6 years down the road then there's something worth paying a premium.

 

There's a reason why moderns don't sell in 9.4 or 9.6 slabs right after release (with some rare exceptions). It's because so damn many of them are 9.8's from the jump.

 

 

Oh, no doubt...most books from a brand new case are likely 9.8 copies.

 

But....

 

There's a difference between picking up a random copy, with no effort involved, and lucking out on it being a 9.8 copy...

 

...and actually applying effort to examine and make sure it is.

 

"9.8 potential" means it's probably going to be, barring some weird occurrence, a 9.8.

 

It's not all that easy, even with books straight out of the case.

 

 

With a new case, this kind of request (if he decided to honor it), would take an extra few minutes. With moderns, you'll be able to scan a book in a few seconds to see if there are any red flags.

 

In this case though, it felt like he was asking for whomever pulled the books to make sure they weren't messed up from the jump. It would have been really easy to just say no from the get go, without the near month delay with a book that escalated in value.

[AJD]

Why was there a tracking number if the order wasn't being filled?

[RockMyAmadeus]

When I said "I'd really appreciate it if you could pick out copies with 9.8 potential for me," I simply meant that I'd like it if Larry (or whoever packs his books) could just take a second to make sure that the books that were being sent to me looked good. Shame on me for wanting nice copies.

 

As I said in the other thread...if you want 9.8 copies, you should 1. examine them in person; 2. offer to compensate the seller for his time and expertise to get you 9.8 copies; 3. buy an already slabbed 9.8.

 

You can't say "well, what I *meant* was...." when you clearly said you wanted 9.8 potential copies, yet didn't offer to compensate Larry for the time and effort to make that happen.

 

If you want "better than average" copies (and 9.8s are ALWAYS better than average), you need to be willing and ready to compensate the seller for that request, proactively.

 

Getting 9.8s requires skill, patience, gentleness, and expertise. It isn't as if you can go to any store and pick the first copy you see and it will be a 9.8 potential copy.

 

Not excusing anything else Larry did. He should have refunded you instantly.

 

 

Well, really, these were brand new copies straight from the case. They are basically the uncirculated coins of the comic world. So, yeah, they start their life as 9.8s unless there's a print run issue or a ham handed delivery guy or shipping minion.

 

We aren't talking about coppers, or even back issues. Hell, we aren't even talking about an issue on the racks. These are "pre-rack". I wouldn't call pulling a 9.8 out of a distributor's case any kind of skill. A book gets hot 6 months or 6 years down the road then there's something worth paying a premium.

 

There's a reason why moderns don't sell in 9.4 or 9.6 slabs right after release (with some rare exceptions). It's because so damn many of them are 9.8's from the jump.

 

 

Oh, no doubt...most books from a brand new case are likely 9.8 copies.

 

But....

 

There's a difference between picking up a random copy, with no effort involved, and lucking out on it being a 9.8 copy...

 

...and actually applying effort to examine and make sure it is.

 

"9.8 potential" means it's probably going to be, barring some weird occurrence, a 9.8.

 

It's not all that easy, even with books straight out of the case.

 

 

With a new case, this kind of request (if he decided to honor it), would take an extra few minutes. With moderns, you'll be able to scan a book in a few seconds to see if there are any red flags.

 

True.

 

However...

 

The ability to know what will be a 9.8, and what will not, is a skill that has value, and should be compensated by those making such requests.

 

Because this is also common: coming across all sorts of 9.6+ copies that just...don't...quite...make...the...cut. And then, what would have taken a few seconds IF you had pulled a 9.8 candidate right away, has now taken several minutes because this copy isn't good enough, and this copy isn't good enough, and this copy isn't good enough, and damn it, there's got to be a solid 9.8 in here somewhere!

 

I've done it many, many times.

 

And...on the off-chance that the book gets a 9.9, is the seller compensated for that? Never that I know of.

 

In this case though, it felt like he was asking for whomever pulled the books to make sure they weren't messed up from the jump. It would have been really easy to just say no from the get go, without the near month delay with a book that escalated in value.

 

Definitely.

 

And, if Tiger Topher has any class, he will send Larry the money after he receives the books. We shall see.

[bb8]

When I said "I'd really appreciate it if you could pick out copies with 9.8 potential for me," I simply meant that I'd like it if Larry (or whoever packs his books) could just take a second to make sure that the books that were being sent to me looked good. Shame on me for wanting nice copies.

 

As I said in the other thread...if you want 9.8 copies, you should 1. examine them in person; 2. offer to compensate the seller for his time and expertise to get you 9.8 copies; 3. buy an already slabbed 9.8.

 

You can't say "well, what I *meant* was...." when you clearly said you wanted 9.8 potential copies, yet didn't offer to compensate Larry for the time and effort to make that happen.

 

If you want "better than average" copies (and 9.8s are ALWAYS better than average), you need to be willing and ready to compensate the seller for that request, proactively.

 

Getting 9.8s requires skill, patience, gentleness, and expertise. It isn't as if you can go to any store and pick the first copy you see and it will be a 9.8 potential copy.

 

Not excusing anything else Larry did. He should have refunded you instantly.

 

 

Well, really, these were brand new copies straight from the case. They are basically the uncirculated coins of the comic world. So, yeah, they start their life as 9.8s unless there's a print run issue or a ham handed delivery guy or shipping minion.

 

We aren't talking about coppers, or even back issues. Hell, we aren't even talking about an issue on the racks. These are "pre-rack". I wouldn't call pulling a 9.8 out of a distributor's case any kind of skill. A book gets hot 6 months or 6 years down the road then there's something worth paying a premium.

 

There's a reason why moderns don't sell in 9.4 or 9.6 slabs right after release (with some rare exceptions). It's because so damn many of them are 9.8's from the jump.

 

 

Oh, no doubt...most books from a brand new case are likely 9.8 copies.

 

But....

 

There's a difference between picking up a random copy, with no effort involved, and lucking out on it being a 9.8 copy...

 

...and actually applying effort to examine and make sure it is.

 

"9.8 potential" means it's probably going to be, barring some weird occurrence, a 9.8.

 

It's not all that easy, even with books straight out of the case.

 

 

With a new case, this kind of request (if he decided to honor it), would take an extra few minutes. With moderns, you'll be able to scan a book in a few seconds to see if there are any red flags.

 

True.

 

However...

 

The ability to know what will be a 9.8, and what will not, is a skill that has value, and should be compensated by those making such requests.

 

Because this is also common: coming across all sorts of 9.6+ copies that just...don't...quite...make...the...cut. And then, what would have taken a few seconds IF you had pulled a 9.8 candidate right away, has now taken several minutes because this copy isn't good enough, and this copy isn't good enough, and this copy isn't good enough, and damn it, there's got to be a solid 9.8 in here somewhere!

 

I've done it many, many times.

 

And...on the off-chance that the book gets a 9.9, is the seller compensated for that? Never that I know of.

 

In this case though, it felt like he was asking for whomever pulled the books to make sure they weren't messed up from the jump. It would have been really easy to just say no from the get go, without the near month delay with a book that escalated in value.

 

Definitely.

 

 

And, if Tiger Topher has any class, he will send Larry the money after he receives the books. We shall see.

 

I agree with this. Giving him the books after the (albeit late) refund seems above and beyond.

[Citizenvain]

I'd pay for the books but this "any class" drivel is out of line.

 

Tiger showed class by reaching out to Larry first (not a given on these boards) and only went public when that didn't work. The fact is Tiger, a GREAT seller, would STILL have no books or money had he not spoken up.

 

Larry, to his credit, is compensating him for that. To accept does not display a lack of class in the least.

 

 

 

 

[Shark]

I see one thing standing out in this whole situation between Tiger and Larry:

 

Lack of Communication

 

 

All this could have been avoided if Larry had responded to Tiger's payment and 9.8 potential comment by simply replying with something like this:

 

"Just to clarify, I can't guarantee 9.8s on these books but I'll send the best copies I can find."

 

Tiger replies:

 

"OK. Good enough for me."

 

End of story.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I'd pay for the books but this "any class" drivel is out of line.

 

So you say.

 

At least someone correctly used the word "drivel" around here for a change.

 

 

Tiger showed class by reaching out to Larry first (not a given on these boards) and only went public when that didn't work.

 

Um. That's not classy, that's just common courtesy.

 

The fact is Tiger, a GREAT seller, would STILL have no books or money had he not spoken up.

 

Or, ya know, he could have just filed a Paypal dispute. Either/or.

 

Larry, to his credit, is compensating him for that. To accept does not display a lack of class in the least.

 

And if he has class, he will offer to pay for those books after he receives them. If he doesn't have class, he'll just keep them for free.

 

Pretty simple.

[jsilverjanet]

I'd pay for the books but this "any class" drivel is out of line.

 

So you say.

 

At least someone correctly used the word "drivel" around here for a change.

 

 

Tiger showed class by reaching out to Larry first (not a given on these boards) and only went public when that didn't work.

 

Um. That's not classy, that's just common courtesy.

 

The fact is Tiger, a GREAT seller, would STILL have no books or money had he not spoken up.

 

Or, ya know, he could have just filed a Paypal dispute. Either/or.

 

Larry, to his credit, is compensating him for that. To accept does not display a lack of class in the least.

 

And if he has class, he will offer to pay for those books after he receives them. If he doesn't have class, he'll just keep them for free.

 

Pretty simple.

 

This looks like a Chuck "the bully" Gower post

[Doktor]

class is totally overrated when the alternative is a box of free stuff...