PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[mschmidt]

Both deals were put on a side burner. Family health issues. When those issues were done with. Immediate payments were made. I don't deny that Adam was very understanding in this regard. He was very understanding. I paid the first deal off in full. This was the first deal.

I waited to get the first book. It didn't arrive. A few post's later Adam says he wont send the first book until the second book is started. This is the second deal.

Sorry but I am not in the habit of giving people money when there holding property that is, in effect mine. Just not delivered yet.

 

There are no double standards. I didn't with hold sending a book that was bought and paid for IN FULL in a totally different deal/transaction.

 

You're still not answering the question. You promised a down payment on the HT #1 back in December (and then again in January) - did you, in fact, make this down payment?

[eddly]

Clearly there needs to be a contract signed and agreed upon for a transaction like this. A copy of this contract should then be held by a third party.

 

Payment terms should be outlined, term and monthly payments explicitly shown.

 

Adam is providing the option of time payments at a cost to himself as he is paying interest on the book up until the time the transaction ends. He needs to be protected when the buyer does not go through with the deal. In my opinion, the contract should have at least forced the buyer to pay all interest that Adam paid should he not fulfill the transaction plus other agreed upon penalties (such as holding the other comic).

 

However, as much as I side with Adam, I don't think much can be done here with no such contract existing.

 

 

[Foolkiller]

There seems to be no doubt that TFL bought and accepted the obligation to buy the book. He made no payments or efforts to pay the down payment.

 

He paid off the Avengers 4 and received the book. Adam viewed this as a combined transaction (the HT and the Avengers) while TFL thought it was separate and individual.

 

It's clear that TFL owed an obligation to Adam to make payments. He tied up a significant book for a long amount of time.

 

But what really is getting everyone is how he essentially chastised comicseekers for doing the same thing he did and extracted money out of him for it.

 

Even if you entirely buy everything TFL has said, there remains NO doubt that he has been hypocritical. All told, my advice is the same, this is someone that you cannot deal with in good faith.

 

My transaction with TFL was a little difficult but ultimately resolved favorably. However, given this now public incident, the manner in which it was handled, the defense postured, and what I gather may be further issues with him that may come out -- I will say this, along with the rest of the probation list, will be someone that I cannot deal with in the future.

[Bosco685]

TFL is trying to use a poor excuse, and should be put on the probation list, plain and simple

+1

[nocutename]

Adam, I read all of this and I am sorry for all your trouble. I hope that your book sells for an extra 5k and that your strong arm TFL into paying you $3k ($2k for loss of other sale and $1k for holding the book) when he requests to be removed.

 

I am bumping the list but will wait for Divad to finalize TFL addition.

[Foolkiller]

Clearly there needs to be a contract signed and agreed upon for a transaction like this. A copy of this contract should then be held by a third party.

 

Payment terms should be outlined, term and monthly payments explicitly shown.

 

Adam is providing the option of time payments at a cost to himself as he is paying interest on the book up until the time the transaction ends. He needs to be protected when the buyer does not go through with the deal. In my opinion, the contract should have at least forced the buyer to pay all interest that Adam paid should he not fulfill the transaction plus other agreed upon penalties (such as holding the other comic).

 

However, as much as I side with Adam, I don't think much can be done here with no such contract existing.

 

 

Actually, that's not true. Any writing can be evidence of a contract, signed or otherwise. Now, what damages you could claim in court is an entirely separate matter.

[G.A.tor]

Both deals were put on a side burner. Family health issues. When those issues were done with. Immediate payments were made. I don't deny that Adam was very understanding in this regard. He was very understanding. I paid the first deal off in full. This was the first deal.

I waited to get the first book. It didn't arrive. A few post's later Adam says he wont send the first book until the second book is started. This is the second deal.

Sorry but I am not in the habit of giving people money when there holding property that is, in effect mine. Just not delivered yet.

 

There are no double standards. I didn't with hold sending a book that was bought and paid for IN FULL in a totally different deal/transaction.

 

You're still not answering the question. You promised a down payment on the HT #1 back in December (and then again in January) - did you, in fact, make this down payment?

I can answer that..NO he never made a down payment... and he promised multiple times beyond just the Dec and Jan ones that adam posted...

[TFL-migration]

Adam. Go ahead and post your PM to me saying you'll send me the $1,100 It doesn't exist. Your Pm was a "might happen, could be, possible proposal" sort of. Post it, be my guest. I have that PM as well don't forget!! I didn't with hold anything that was bought and paid for IN FULL. You did, not me.

 

One deal/transaction? No, there not. Not even close. A 25K Loan? That is laughable.

I do have the PM's with your "I'll keep all what I think I am owed and send you back the difference,dead deal"{paraphrasing} statements/proposals. Possibly $100 back to me

 

We are never going to agree. That is the bottom line, plain and simple

 

Keeping a book that has been bought and paid for is your idea of a fair deal, Not mine. As far as the payments go. Detectivekid27 is correct. My fault for helping my wife go through the roughest time in her life. Mine too for that matter. Comics or Family... I will always choose my family and loved one's. It does not mean I was not going to send the payments however. I was and had planned to. That was proven with the full and complete payments on the first deal/book. I got the first deal out of the way first. It was after all the first deal we had made. The with holding of the first deal/book is what leads to this situation. So be it...

 

[Mac Man]

 

and, I find if ethically laughable that you, TFL, would extort $20 from another member, and then not see you did the same thing to adam on a MUCH larger scale...

 

With NO horse in the race...I'll still toss my measely in. I think this is perhaps the most morally problematic part of this discussion. As Filter81 said, sometimes deals go south and he even agreed he might have been able to walk away from it (which if you meant that, good for you!). But to go after someone for a smaller amount, I am reminded of a certain parable that I read somewhere about a servant who owed his master X amount of money, and was called upon to repay the debt, but when unable to do so, he was forgiven. That servant then went to another servant who owed him much less than he owed his master, and beat his coworker when that man couldn't repay his "friend." The master found out about this hypocrisy and had the first servant put to death.

 

Moral of the story is that we need to extend the same courtesy to those who wrong us as we have received from those who we have wronged. TFL, I AM glad to hear your family is doing better--family always WILL trump things of the world. However, who we are as people also matters.

 

Perhaps I am naive, but hopefully this can be resolved as amicably as possible

[Subliminal]

Agreed, time payments, means, you pay a little at a time, doesn't it?

 

Damn straight. I think that is clear to everyone except TFL

 

He seems to tie the two books together as in paying the first $1000 finally after half a year means he's making time payments and is entitled to the Avengers 1 when he's not even made one months worth of time payment. When it seemed clear he was going to cut and run from the rest of his obligations its only fair that he be reminded of his purchase obligation.

While time payments are something negotiated and at the agreement of both parties I'm sure that one payment in the 16th month does not constitute time payments and for the purchaser to make that decision unilaterally after the fact is wrong.

[eddly]

Adam. Go ahead and post your PM to me saying you'll send me the $1,100 It doesn't exist. Your Pm was a "might happen, could be, possible proposal" sort of. Post it, be my guest. I have that PM as well don't forget!! I didn't with hold anything that was bought and paid for IN FULL. You did, not me.

 

One deal/transaction? No, there not. Not even close. A 25K Loan? That is laughable.

I do have the PM's with your "I'll keep all what I think I am owed and send you back the difference,dead deal"{paraphrasing} statements/proposals. Possibly $100 back to me

 

We are never going to agree.

 

 

That is the bottom line, plain and simple. Keeping a book that has been bought and paid for is your idea of a fair deal, Not mine.

 

So what is the solution to this then from your perspective?

[Bosco685]

So what is the solution to this then from your perspective?

This is either a long response coming, or hopefully they are PMing each other to work this out.

[THE_BEYONDER]

Clearly there needs to be a contract signed and agreed upon for a transaction like this. A copy of this contract should then be held by a third party.

 

Payment terms should be outlined, term and monthly payments explicitly shown.

 

Adam is providing the option of time payments at a cost to himself as he is paying interest on the book up until the time the transaction ends. He needs to be protected when the buyer does not go through with the deal. In my opinion, the contract should have at least forced the buyer to pay all interest that Adam paid should he not fulfill the transaction plus other agreed upon penalties (such as holding the other comic).

 

However, as much as I side with Adam, I don't think much can be done here with no such contract existing.

 

 

Actually, that's not true. Any writing can be evidence of a contract, signed or otherwise. Now, what damages you could claim in court is an entirely separate matter.

 

Hey Brian,

 

In the absence of a down payment on the HT 1...would the court support Adam's decision to delay shipment on the Avengers 4 (Had he decided to go that route)?

[mschmidt]

Both deals were put on a side burner. Family health issues. When those issues were done with. Immediate payments were made. I don't deny that Adam was very understanding in this regard. He was very understanding. I paid the first deal off in full. This was the first deal.

I waited to get the first book. It didn't arrive. A few post's later Adam says he wont send the first book until the second book is started. This is the second deal.

Sorry but I am not in the habit of giving people money when there holding property that is, in effect mine. Just not delivered yet.

 

There are no double standards. I didn't with hold sending a book that was bought and paid for IN FULL in a totally different deal/transaction.

 

You're still not answering the question. You promised a down payment on the HT #1 back in December (and then again in January) - did you, in fact, make this down payment?

I can answer that..NO he never made a down payment... and he promised multiple times beyond just the Dec and Jan ones that adam posted...

 

That's what I assumed - I just wanted him to do the honorable thing and admit that he never made any of the down payments he promised.

 

But, as he seems to be ignoring this particular question, I guess that ain't happening anytime soon.

[bghkoyama]

Both deals were put on a side burner. Family health issues. When those issues were done with. Immediate payments were made. I don't deny that Adam was very understanding in this regard. He was very understanding. I paid the first deal off in full. This was the first deal.

I waited to get the first book. It didn't arrive. A few post's later Adam says he wont send the first book until the second book is started. This is the second deal.

Sorry but I am not in the habit of giving people money when there holding property that is, in effect mine. Just not delivered yet.

 

There are no double standards. I didn't with hold sending a book that was bought and paid for IN FULL in a totally different deal/transaction.

 

Double standard = you asking for compensation for money "supposedly" lost on a deal ($20) and you stating you won't pay for someone's bad business decision for losing out on money they had to use to secure the book from their business partner that you wanted to purchase.

You are lucky filter81 wasn't asking for compensation for you stiffing him on a gentlemen's agreemet on the boards.

That just irks me. I would've appologized and would've at least started giving him payment for some of the fees he incurred. But that's just what I would've done if I were in this situation.

 

 

[TFL-migration]

I guess you didn't read my post mschmidt........ Nothing to hide with this situation....

I'm not PM'ing Adam. Nor is he Pm'ing me. Work's fine for me.

Edited June 3, 2009 by TFL

[Count]

So if Adam sells the book for say...24k, does TFL make good and pay him 1k to get off the list because Adam lost 1k in the deal?

[mschmidt]

I guess you didn't read my post mschmidt........ Nothing to hide with this situation....

 

I read all your posts - but you still didn't answer the question. You promised Adam a down payment on the HT 1 repeatedly - did you, in fact, send this to him? Because, as far as I can tell, you reneged on that deal completely, and belong on the probation list because of it.

[Foolkiller]

Clearly there needs to be a contract signed and agreed upon for a transaction like this. A copy of this contract should then be held by a third party.

 

Payment terms should be outlined, term and monthly payments explicitly shown.

 

Adam is providing the option of time payments at a cost to himself as he is paying interest on the book up until the time the transaction ends. He needs to be protected when the buyer does not go through with the deal. In my opinion, the contract should have at least forced the buyer to pay all interest that Adam paid should he not fulfill the transaction plus other agreed upon penalties (such as holding the other comic).

 

However, as much as I side with Adam, I don't think much can be done here with no such contract existing.

 

 

Actually, that's not true. Any writing can be evidence of a contract, signed or otherwise. Now, what damages you could claim in court is an entirely separate matter.

 

Hey Brian,

 

In the absence of a down payment on the HT 1...would the court support Adam's decision to delay shipment on the Avengers 4 (Had he decided to go that route)?

 

You'd need to see all the writings to see what the nature of the transaction evidenced. I can't be sure based on what I've seen.

[1koko]

There seems to be no doubt that TFL bought and accepted the obligation to buy the book. He made no payments or efforts to pay the down payment.

 

He paid off the Avengers 4 and received the book. Adam viewed this as a combined transaction (the HT and the Avengers) while TFL thought it was separate and individual.

 

It's clear that TFL owed an obligation to Adam to make payments. He tied up a significant book for a long amount of time.

 

But what really is getting everyone is how he essentially chastised comicseekers for doing the same thing he did and extracted money out of him for it.

 

Even if you entirely buy everything TFL has said, there remains NO doubt that he has been hypocritical. All told, my advice is the same, this is someone that you cannot deal with in good faith.

 

My transaction with TFL was a little difficult but ultimately resolved favorably. However, given this now public incident, the manner in which it was handled, the defense postured, and what I gather may be further issues with him that may come out -- I will say this, along with the rest of the probation list, will be someone that I cannot deal with in the future.

 

A post that is consistent with my own view.

 

I would have no confidence in TFL fulfilling his commitments on high value books.

 

Further this to his hypocrisy on such a pathetically small amount ($20 for someone who commits to purchase a $25,000 book) means he is not someone I would wish to deal with.