PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[RockMyAmadeus]

(thumbs u ( not the good one )

 

[Boozad]

In fact, if no money ever switches hands I would vote no on even the board transactions.

 

Quality Comix ended up on the Probation List when no money changed hands.

[troydivision1]

Question - Does the 30 day rule also apply to refunds?

[Boozad]

Question - Does the 30 day rule also apply to refunds?

 

I'd presume so as the deal isn't concluded one way or the other.

[revat]

Question - if two board members do a deal that turns sour outside of the boards can I still put the board member on the probation list?

 

If I am the buyer and the I make a deal with the seller and then the seller tells another buyer that the piece is sold but then the other buyer makes a higher offer and then the seller comes back to me and asks for more and I refuse and then the seller decides to sell to the other buyer, can I put that seller on the probation list?

 

I would vote no.

 

In fact, if no money ever switches hands I would vote no on even the board transactions.

 

Maybe we need to add a Butthurt section. This could include the deals where we feel our time has been wasted, but that there hasn't actually been a payment made.

 

HOS - True conman territory. Bad guys who have screwed people over multiple times.

 

Probation- Someone took my money & it took months to get the think worked out. They fell off the internet after losing a job or a bad family situation & cannot be trusted.

 

Butthurt- I was the first in the thread to . It's my book & the deal didn't get completed for some reason. Did I lose money? No, but I wasted a valuable 2 minutes of my life time. Similar to if you call a comic shop & reserve something, but when you arrive they can't find it or accidently sold it to another customer. Wasted my time.

 

Sorry, it just seems like people are getting hit up for the probation thread for some pretty minor situations even when they are not bad guys or habitual problems.

 

 

Just so I am clear on "not being a bad guy" or "a habitual problem": You are saying that it is OK to make a deal with someone, use that deal to milk a higher offer out of someone else, then use that offer to try and milk more money out of the guy that already has a contract on the book, and when that doesn't work, sell it to the 2nd person?

 

That, to me, is way worse than just screwing up or welching on a deal. Way, way worse.

 

I'm not saying it is ok, just that it's not really my idea of a probation offense. It would annoy the heck out of me, but really, if no money was exchanged I would just move on. I guess I've had enough deals fall through in real life that if I'm not being ripped off then I can move on pretty quickly. Losing out on a comic, even if it was bs, shouldn't be such a large deal imo.

 

Yeah, the milking a higher deal out of a 2nd buyer would certainly say something about the sellers character, but I just don't see it probation worthy like when someone is walking off with peoples money.

 

It's a hobby & unless someone is stealing something from me, I find it pretty easy to just move on if a deal falls through.

No, you're calling it butthurt, which is the board's wacky fun way of saying "get over it you pussy!"

 

 

This.

 

 

...and if someone agreed to sell you a book for $1k and then sold it to another person for $1200 then they have stolen your money. Anything over and above the price he agreed to with the first buyer isn't his money, it's the guy money he had the original deal with.

 

I think douchebaggery and bad business and being immoral do not necessarily = stealing money.

 

If you haven't paid for it, it ain't yours. That doesn't mean you shouldn't have some recourse, but that also doesn't mean a crime has occurred.

[comix4fun]

Question - if two board members do a deal that turns sour outside of the boards can I still put the board member on the probation list?

 

If I am the buyer and the I make a deal with the seller and then the seller tells another buyer that the piece is sold but then the other buyer makes a higher offer and then the seller comes back to me and asks for more and I refuse and then the seller decides to sell to the other buyer, can I put that seller on the probation list?

 

I would vote no.

 

In fact, if no money ever switches hands I would vote no on even the board transactions.

 

Maybe we need to add a Butthurt section. This could include the deals where we feel our time has been wasted, but that there hasn't actually been a payment made.

 

HOS - True conman territory. Bad guys who have screwed people over multiple times.

 

Probation- Someone took my money & it took months to get the think worked out. They fell off the internet after losing a job or a bad family situation & cannot be trusted.

 

Butthurt- I was the first in the thread to . It's my book & the deal didn't get completed for some reason. Did I lose money? No, but I wasted a valuable 2 minutes of my life time. Similar to if you call a comic shop & reserve something, but when you arrive they can't find it or accidently sold it to another customer. Wasted my time.

 

Sorry, it just seems like people are getting hit up for the probation thread for some pretty minor situations even when they are not bad guys or habitual problems.

 

 

Just so I am clear on "not being a bad guy" or "a habitual problem": You are saying that it is OK to make a deal with someone, use that deal to milk a higher offer out of someone else, then use that offer to try and milk more money out of the guy that already has a contract on the book, and when that doesn't work, sell it to the 2nd person?

 

That, to me, is way worse than just screwing up or welching on a deal. Way, way worse.

 

I'm not saying it is ok, just that it's not really my idea of a probation offense. It would annoy the heck out of me, but really, if no money was exchanged I would just move on. I guess I've had enough deals fall through in real life that if I'm not being ripped off then I can move on pretty quickly. Losing out on a comic, even if it was bs, shouldn't be such a large deal imo.

 

Yeah, the milking a higher deal out of a 2nd buyer would certainly say something about the sellers character, but I just don't see it probation worthy like when someone is walking off with peoples money.

 

It's a hobby & unless someone is stealing something from me, I find it pretty easy to just move on if a deal falls through.

No, you're calling it butthurt, which is the board's wacky fun way of saying "get over it you pussy!"

 

 

This.

 

 

...and if someone agreed to sell you a book for $1k and then sold it to another person for $1200 then they have stolen your money. Anything over and above the price he agreed to with the first buyer isn't his money, it's the guy money he had the original deal with.

 

I think douchebaggery and bad business and being immoral do not necessarily = stealing money.

 

If you haven't paid for it, it ain't yours. That doesn't mean you shouldn't have some recourse, but that also doesn't mean a crime has occurred.

 

 

That's not entirely true. There are plenty of examples where rights of ownership or to ownership are present prior payment. That's what contracts (oral and written) are for. They create circumstances where both parties are bound to act and where duties and rights are created.

 

You and I agree to transact for a piece or artwork or a book and you unilaterally breach before consideration is paid because you get a better offer you've got to be prepared for both barrels of claims that I have rights to that piece or rights to any profit gained over and above the original sales price.

 

Any money over and above the contracted amount that they were able to secure through their breach of the agreement is an actionable amount. If that money is withheld, what would you call it? Conversion?

 

Given my scenario above, do you dispute that the amount over and above the original contract amount would be considered the party's, against whom the agreement was breached, damages?

 

Whether or not we choose to pick the nit of whether it's "criminal" I think there's no dispute over the fact that these are actions counter to the law.

[Dr. Jake]

It saddens me to go this route, but I wish to nominate picklepuss for the probation list and the Hall of Shame.

 

Back on October 19, 2012, I ordered the following comics from picklepuss:

 

Superman Spiderman Treasury - $20

 

Marvel Presents #3 - $4

 

Weird Worlds #1 NM- - $10

 

Sword of Sorcery #1 NM- - $7

 

You can see the transaction on this thread:

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=78&Number=6087678&Searchpage=1&Main=275440&Words=&topic=0&Search=true#Post6087678

 

We then traded PMs. I sent picklepuss $51 for the comics plus the shipping on Oct. 20, via PayPal for the comics.

 

After three weeks, I PM'd and e-mailed picklepuss (via the e-mail addresses provided by PayPal) for an update on my order. I received no responses.

 

Yesterday, the 30th day since our transaction, I sent him the following message:

 

"It has been 30 calendar days since our transaction here on the Collectors Society Message Boards. I did not receive the comics from you that I ordered.

 

"I tried sending you private messages here, as well as e-mails to the accounts provided through PayPal. You have not responded.

 

"Therefore, I am giving you this last chance. You have 24 hours as of 7:30 a.m. Eastern Standard Time today, Nov. 18, 2012, to respond to me with either a refund of the $51 I paid you, or the tracking number of the comics I ordered from you, as well as your assurance that I will receive my comics by the end of this week.

 

"Otherwise, I will nominate you to the Collectors Society Message Boards Hall of Shame, where you will be banned from selling merchandise here forever. In addition, in 15 more days, I will initiate a PayPal dispute to get my money back."

 

Today, after consulting with Povertyrow, I am asking my fellow boardies to approve my request. As I have shared with others on the boards via PMs and in person, I've enjoyed my conversations and business dealings with fellow collectors for five years here. It saddens me that there are people who treat customers the way picklepuss has treated me.

 

If you need any other details or information from me as you consider this request, please let me know via PM.

 

Thank you all in advance for your consideration of this request.

 

Jacob Farbman

 

 

Well, it has been over a week, and I have not heard from picklepuss since this post. Forgive me for not knowing the proper formalities, but I motion we put picklepuss on the probation list. Do we need a second and a vote? Who coordinates that here?

 

Thanks.

[Speedy-D]

It saddens me to go this route, but I wish to nominate picklepuss for the probation list and the Hall of Shame.

 

Back on October 19, 2012, I ordered the following comics from picklepuss:

 

Superman Spiderman Treasury - $20

 

Marvel Presents #3 - $4

 

Weird Worlds #1 NM- - $10

 

Sword of Sorcery #1 NM- - $7

 

You can see the transaction on this thread:

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=78&Number=6087678&Searchpage=1&Main=275440&Words=&topic=0&Search=true#Post6087678

 

We then traded PMs. I sent picklepuss $51 for the comics plus the shipping on Oct. 20, via PayPal for the comics.

 

After three weeks, I PM'd and e-mailed picklepuss (via the e-mail addresses provided by PayPal) for an update on my order. I received no responses.

 

Yesterday, the 30th day since our transaction, I sent him the following message:

 

"It has been 30 calendar days since our transaction here on the Collectors Society Message Boards. I did not receive the comics from you that I ordered.

 

"I tried sending you private messages here, as well as e-mails to the accounts provided through PayPal. You have not responded.

 

"Therefore, I am giving you this last chance. You have 24 hours as of 7:30 a.m. Eastern Standard Time today, Nov. 18, 2012, to respond to me with either a refund of the $51 I paid you, or the tracking number of the comics I ordered from you, as well as your assurance that I will receive my comics by the end of this week.

 

"Otherwise, I will nominate you to the Collectors Society Message Boards Hall of Shame, where you will be banned from selling merchandise here forever. In addition, in 15 more days, I will initiate a PayPal dispute to get my money back."

 

Today, after consulting with Povertyrow, I am asking my fellow boardies to approve my request. As I have shared with others on the boards via PMs and in person, I've enjoyed my conversations and business dealings with fellow collectors for five years here. It saddens me that there are people who treat customers the way picklepuss has treated me.

 

If you need any other details or information from me as you consider this request, please let me know via PM.

 

Thank you all in advance for your consideration of this request.

 

Jacob Farbman

 

 

Well, it has been over a week, and I have not heard from picklepuss since this post. Forgive me for not knowing the proper formalities, but I motion we put picklepuss on the probation list. Do we need a second and a vote? Who coordinates that here?

 

Thanks.

If you nominated him and he hasn't even responded, I think you can put him in. There's no vote needed for the PL. If you don't feel comfortable with the awesome responsibility of updating the list, I'm sure POV or Divad will be happy to do so for you.

 

POV & Divad, no need to thank me for volunteering you. It's just what I do.

[crassus]

 

Well, it has been over a week, and I have not heard from picklepuss since this post. Forgive me for not knowing the proper formalities, but I motion we put picklepuss on the probation list. Do we need a second and a vote? Who coordinates that here?

 

Thanks.

 

If you nominated him and he hasn't even responded, I think you can put him in. There's no vote needed for the PL. If you don't feel comfortable with the awesome responsibility of updating the list, I'm sure POV or Divad will be happy to do so for you.

 

POV & Divad, no need to thank me for volunteering you. It's just what I do.

 

Yes, as I understand the rules, after 72hrs with no response picklepuss is put on the list without further process. I will add later today my own grievance with picklepuss, as it would be relevant should the seller actually return and be accountable.

[comicdonna]

The list is getting longer.

[Speedy-D]

The list is getting longer.

I know! I was thinking of getting myself on it, but now it's not so exclusive, why bother?

[PovertyRow]

The list is getting longer.

I know! I was thinking of getting myself on it, but now it's not so exclusive, why bother?

 

We could always make a new section called Those Who Do What They Do.

[comicdonna]

The list is getting longer.

I know! I was thinking of getting myself on it, but now it's not so exclusive, why bother?

 

We could always make a new section called Those Who Do What They Do.

Can we make another called Be all you can be?

[Speedy-D]

The list is getting longer.

I know! I was thinking of getting myself on it, but now it's not so exclusive, why bother?

 

We could always make a new section called Those Who Do What They Do.

are you calling Cal fat??!!?!

 

[mrwoogieman]

Dimebag_D has made good with me. Unless anyone objects, I'm going to remove him from the PL.

 

Quoted to point out that there is some content here amongst all the bickering.

 

If there's no other nominating parties that haven't been made whole, then Dimebag can come off the PL.

 

[Boozad]

The list is getting longer.

 

18 added since September last year.

[*paull*]

I unfortunately have to nominate TANGELWOOD42 for probation due to not receiving payment for a Boards transaction or receiving any kind of subsequent contact.

 

Here's the sales thread:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=78&Number=6075704&Searchpage=1&Main=274908&Words=katy+keene&topic=0&Search=true#Post6075704

 

My first PM:

 

Thanks for the purchase! You will really like these books. They are very clean, flat and attractive copies.

 

Total is: $70 + $60 + $70 + $4 shipping = $204

 

I can accept Paypal, a check, or money order. My Paypal address is: ###########

 

I'll pack well and ship via Priority Mail and add delivery confirmation.

 

Thanks!

Paul

 

___________________

 

His reply:

 

#3751198 - 10/14/12 09:23 PM Re: Katy Keene

tangelwood42 Offline

Collectosaurus Rex

 

Registered: 12/01/11

Posts: 388

Loc: JAX, FL

Thanks Paul! I'll PP u Tuesday . All the best! Ron

 

____________________

 

After that PM on 10/14, no contact and no payment. He has sold books in the GA/SA/BA forum previously and gave him the benefit of the doubt. I wrote multiple times to explain that I understand if he has to delay payment, split payments, etc., but still received no contact.

Did he read any of the PM's after he agreed to purchase? Not that it really matters but, just curious.

 

Please add TANGELWOOD42 to the PL. I wrote a new PM on Saturday and haven't heard anything.

[Dr. Balls]

Question - if two board members do a deal that turns sour outside of the boards can I still put the board member on the probation list?

 

If I am the buyer and the I make a deal with the seller and then the seller tells another buyer that the piece is sold but then the other buyer makes a higher offer and then the seller comes back to me and asks for more and I refuse and then the seller decides to sell to the other buyer, can I put that seller on the probation list?

 

I would vote no.

 

In fact, if no money ever switches hands I would vote no on even the board transactions.

 

Maybe we need to add a Butthurt section. This could include the deals where we feel our time has been wasted, but that there hasn't actually been a payment made.

 

HOS - True conman territory. Bad guys who have screwed people over multiple times.

 

Probation- Someone took my money & it took months to get the think worked out. They fell off the internet after losing a job or a bad family situation & cannot be trusted.

 

Butthurt- I was the first in the thread to . It's my book & the deal didn't get completed for some reason. Did I lose money? No, but I wasted a valuable 2 minutes of my life time. Similar to if you call a comic shop & reserve something, but when you arrive they can't find it or accidently sold it to another customer. Wasted my time.

 

Sorry, it just seems like people are getting hit up for the probation thread for some pretty minor situations even when they are not bad guys or habitual problems.

 

 

Just so I am clear on "not being a bad guy" or "a habitual problem": You are saying that it is OK to make a deal with someone, use that deal to milk a higher offer out of someone else, then use that offer to try and milk more money out of the guy that already has a contract on the book, and when that doesn't work, sell it to the 2nd person?

 

That, to me, is way worse than just screwing up or welching on a deal. Way, way worse.

 

I'm not saying it is ok, just that it's not really my idea of a probation offense. It would annoy the heck out of me, but really, if no money was exchanged I would just move on. I guess I've had enough deals fall through in real life that if I'm not being ripped off then I can move on pretty quickly. Losing out on a comic, even if it was bs, shouldn't be such a large deal imo.

 

Yeah, the milking a higher deal out of a 2nd buyer would certainly say something about the sellers character, but I just don't see it probation worthy like when someone is walking off with peoples money.

 

It's a hobby & unless someone is stealing something from me, I find it pretty easy to just move on if a deal falls through.

No, you're calling it butthurt, which is the board's wacky fun way of saying "get over it you pussy!"

 

 

This.

 

 

...and if someone agreed to sell you a book for $1k and then sold it to another person for $1200 then they have stolen your money. Anything over and above the price he agreed to with the first buyer isn't his money, it's the guy money he had the original deal with.

 

I think douchebaggery and bad business and being immoral do not necessarily = stealing money.

 

If you haven't paid for it, it ain't yours. That doesn't mean you shouldn't have some recourse, but that also doesn't mean a crime has occurred.

 

 

That's not entirely true. There are plenty of examples where rights of ownership or to ownership are present prior payment. That's what contracts (oral and written) are for. They create circumstances where both parties are bound to act and where duties and rights are created.

 

You and I agree to transact for a piece or artwork or a book and you unilaterally breach before consideration is paid because you get a better offer you've got to be prepared for both barrels of claims that I have rights to that piece or rights to any profit gained over and above the original sales price.

 

Any money over and above the contracted amount that they were able to secure through their breach of the agreement is an actionable amount. If that money is withheld, what would you call it? Conversion?

 

Given my scenario above, do you dispute that the amount over and above the original contract amount would be considered the party's, against whom the agreement was breached, damages?

 

Whether or not we choose to pick the nit of whether it's "criminal" I think there's no dispute over the fact that these are actions counter to the law.

 

Not really a probation discussion - but the opposite of this particular topic. I had a deal with a Boardie on a book he had underpriced, I pulled the pin on it right away and he had several Boardies offer him more money - and he kept to his deal with me. So, not all Boardies are slave to the dollar - they give their word and they keep it. We need an AWESOME LIST.

[Speedy-D]

Question - if two board members do a deal that turns sour outside of the boards can I still put the board member on the probation list?

 

If I am the buyer and the I make a deal with the seller and then the seller tells another buyer that the piece is sold but then the other buyer makes a higher offer and then the seller comes back to me and asks for more and I refuse and then the seller decides to sell to the other buyer, can I put that seller on the probation list?

 

I would vote no.

 

In fact, if no money ever switches hands I would vote no on even the board transactions.

 

Maybe we need to add a Butthurt section. This could include the deals where we feel our time has been wasted, but that there hasn't actually been a payment made.

 

HOS - True conman territory. Bad guys who have screwed people over multiple times.

 

Probation- Someone took my money & it took months to get the think worked out. They fell off the internet after losing a job or a bad family situation & cannot be trusted.

 

Butthurt- I was the first in the thread to . It's my book & the deal didn't get completed for some reason. Did I lose money? No, but I wasted a valuable 2 minutes of my life time. Similar to if you call a comic shop & reserve something, but when you arrive they can't find it or accidently sold it to another customer. Wasted my time.

 

Sorry, it just seems like people are getting hit up for the probation thread for some pretty minor situations even when they are not bad guys or habitual problems.

 

 

Just so I am clear on "not being a bad guy" or "a habitual problem": You are saying that it is OK to make a deal with someone, use that deal to milk a higher offer out of someone else, then use that offer to try and milk more money out of the guy that already has a contract on the book, and when that doesn't work, sell it to the 2nd person?

 

That, to me, is way worse than just screwing up or welching on a deal. Way, way worse.

 

I'm not saying it is ok, just that it's not really my idea of a probation offense. It would annoy the heck out of me, but really, if no money was exchanged I would just move on. I guess I've had enough deals fall through in real life that if I'm not being ripped off then I can move on pretty quickly. Losing out on a comic, even if it was bs, shouldn't be such a large deal imo.

 

Yeah, the milking a higher deal out of a 2nd buyer would certainly say something about the sellers character, but I just don't see it probation worthy like when someone is walking off with peoples money.

 

It's a hobby & unless someone is stealing something from me, I find it pretty easy to just move on if a deal falls through.

No, you're calling it butthurt, which is the board's wacky fun way of saying "get over it you pussy!"

 

 

This.

 

 

...and if someone agreed to sell you a book for $1k and then sold it to another person for $1200 then they have stolen your money. Anything over and above the price he agreed to with the first buyer isn't his money, it's the guy money he had the original deal with.

 

I think douchebaggery and bad business and being immoral do not necessarily = stealing money.

 

If you haven't paid for it, it ain't yours. That doesn't mean you shouldn't have some recourse, but that also doesn't mean a crime has occurred.

 

 

That's not entirely true. There are plenty of examples where rights of ownership or to ownership are present prior payment. That's what contracts (oral and written) are for. They create circumstances where both parties are bound to act and where duties and rights are created.

 

You and I agree to transact for a piece or artwork or a book and you unilaterally breach before consideration is paid because you get a better offer you've got to be prepared for both barrels of claims that I have rights to that piece or rights to any profit gained over and above the original sales price.

 

Any money over and above the contracted amount that they were able to secure through their breach of the agreement is an actionable amount. If that money is withheld, what would you call it? Conversion?

 

Given my scenario above, do you dispute that the amount over and above the original contract amount would be considered the party's, against whom the agreement was breached, damages?

 

Whether or not we choose to pick the nit of whether it's "criminal" I think there's no dispute over the fact that these are actions counter to the law.

 

Not really a probation discussion - but the opposite of this particular topic. I had a deal with a Boardie on a book he had underpriced, I pulled the pin on it right away and he had several Boardies offer him more money - and he kept to his deal with me. So, not all Boardies are slave to the dollar - they give their word and they keep it. We need an AWESOME LIST.

We used to have one, but it got killed in favor of the Great Sahara we call the kudos subforum.

[Sqeggs]

Not really a probation discussion - but the opposite of this particular topic. I had a deal with a Boardie on a book he had underpriced, I pulled the pin on it right away and he had several Boardies offer him more money - and he kept to his deal with me. So, not all Boardies are slave to the dollar - they give their word and they keep it. We need an AWESOME LIST.

 

Couple of points: Thinking about it, it occurs to me that there are a fair number of books that are sold very quickly -- sometimes within seconds of being posted. Sometimes the quick sale may be because someone stumbles on a book they have been looking for (or were alerted by the seller that the book was about to be posted). Most times, though, the quick sales probably indicate a book was posted for a price significantly below FMV.

 

Also, isn't it sleazy to PM a seller with a buy offer after someone has posted in the thread? To this point -- thank goodness -- I haven't encountered a seller who tried to renege on a deal.