PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[oakman29]

I make off-colour jokes all the time with absolutely no basis in reality. I am no rapist/misogynist/pedophile/I could go on, but I make jokes about that stuff.

 

Besides, I am no spring chicken - how old are you, anyway, Pov?

 

 

-slym (circa 1971)

 

Hey Slym, I think he has you beat on the birth date.

 

 

 

 

Here comes Pov with his "young whippersnapper" comeback.

 

I didn't know Methusela was a member here!

 

 

 

 

-slym

[slym2none]

I make off-colour jokes all the time with absolutely no basis in reality. I am no rapist/misogynist/pedophile/I could go on, but I make jokes about that stuff.

 

Besides, I am no spring chicken - how old are you, anyway, Pov?

 

 

-slym (circa 1971)

 

Born in 1950. Wanna trade? (My gawd you are just a pup!)

 

Just to add - I don't make rapist or pedophile jokes. My former fiancee was subject to one and I was subject to the other (neither of these are actually unknown here). So I tend to not joke. But you are still Slym in my book (whatever the hell that means!)

 

 

 

 

-slym

[PovertyRow]

I make off-colour jokes all the time with absolutely no basis in reality. I am no rapist/misogynist/pedophile/I could go on, but I make jokes about that stuff.

 

Besides, I am no spring chicken - how old are you, anyway, Pov?

 

 

-slym (circa 1971)

 

Born in 1950. Wanna trade? (My gawd you are just a pup!)

 

Just to add - I don't make rapist or pedophile jokes. My former fiancee was subject to one and I was subject to the other (neither of these are actually unknown here). So I tend to not joke. But you are still Slym in my book (whatever the hell that means!)

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

Like I say, you are still Slym in my book!

[sacentaur]

I think the issue here is that he doesn't care about the things he's done, and continues to prove it with his posts.

I'm not sure if that is Hall Of Shame worthy, as that seems to be reserved for a special breed of epic scumbag.

 

However, it is worthy of noting in some fashion. This community really doesn't want that kind of attitude amongst it's sellers. Yes, it's a free messageboard where people can act like a gigantic doucherocket as much as they'd like - but people engaging in buy/sell around here deserve to have a way of knowing who they are dealing with.

 

My point exactly on Robert Beerbohm (BLBcomics) - I mean, the guy stiffed a victim $3,600 for 7 full months, he slanders those who have the temerity to confront him, he engages in pathetic ramblings about what a hobby legend he is, and he uses every excuse in the book to rationalize away his egregious conduct.

 

What Tony (solarcadet) has done is completely unacceptable (and frankly, I am not surprised by his behavior), but to me Beerbohm is a far, far worse example and is much more worthy of the Hall of Shame (I voted Yes, btw).

[PovertyRow]

What exactly is the status of Robert Beerbohm (BLBComics) here? Looks like he had hit neither PL or HOS. What is going on?

[Hado]

(I work nights and it took me a while to catch up, this thread and the others)

 

To answer Slym as to why I voted No:

 

While I agree, Solarcadet's actions haven't been well thought out, I still think the HOS is too severe and should be reserved for the worst of the worst. (I believe it was Balls who said something similar)

 

Perhaps being the focus of a mess storm, plus a possible language barrier issue, has led to more ill advised posts from SC.

 

This is just my opinion and feel the "pile on" mentality has set in. Now it's bedtime.

[Bosco685]

Well I voted Yes in the HOS poll. I think it was Slym who asked the No votes why. I will answer for my Yes vote.

 

While some may see me as being liberal or overly rule oriented, and I tend to be, this rash of spoon needs to be put to an end.

 

There has been a disturbing increase in similar modus operandi as follows:

 

1) Sale or purchase goes bad

 

2) Private communication goes on

 

3) No resolution happens

 

4) Issue is brought to light on the boards

 

5) The accused comes on and makes explanations geared towards gaining the sympathy of the boards and expressing remorse in some form

 

6) Accused is questioned about specifics

 

7) Entanglement in the story/stories spun by the accused ensues.

 

8) The accused expresses a desire to right the wrong but over the same time period takes the "I don't care...put me on the list" stance. Later a "spoon you spoons" post often ensues.

 

In this instance i am still waiting for, as the Beatles said, Number 9.

 

9) The "spouse" comes on to defend or explain.

 

I think The Beatles went forward in time, read these threads, went back to the 60s and wrote a song about it!

 

 

You, sir, constantly surprise.

 

[Bosco685]

The stats so far

 

[jaybuck43]

That is a complicated question. The short answer is that if Matt doesn't get every single one of the pulps he ordered by Christmas then Blb is going on the pl. The crux of the issue had been that since Matt wasn't a member at the time of the transaction he doesn't qualify to nominate to the PL per the rules. However after he had become a member and taken it to the boards Blb came on and gave some rambling post about stuff. Somewhere in there he said the word Christmas and therefore we are taking him at his word that he will make Matthew whole by that date. The 30 day clock started running when he said this (both are boardies and a transaction was agreed to) and it expires on the 23rd. Now if someone else wants to throw him into the HoS, throw up a poll.

[fastballspecial]

I think he needs to on it not for the acts involved as much as his flipant attitude/behavior. Its more about protecting future buyers here from this train wreck.

[dopy02]

 

Cant something be autostamped somehow next to someones name to show they were on the PL or HOS at some point. Like as part of a sig, or on the sidebar next to their name? There has to be a way to work that in somehow?

 

I propose a third category, The Tool Shed.

Once a member is removed from the PL, they go directly to the Tool Shed for life where they will not suffer buying or selling incumbrances but will be identified as a tool.

[skypinkblu]

That is a complicated question. The short answer is that if Matt doesn't get every single one of the pulps he ordered by Christmas then Blb is going on the pl. The crux of the issue had been that since Matt wasn't a member at the time of the transaction he doesn't qualify to nominate to the PL per the rules. However after he had become a member and taken it to the boards Blb came on and gave some rambling post about stuff. Somewhere in there he said the word Christmas and therefore we are taking him at his word that he will make Matthew whole by that date. The 30 day clock started running when he said this (both are boardies and a transaction was agreed to) and it expires on the 23rd. Now if someone else wants to throw him into the HoS, throw up a poll.

 

What about his promise to Mark Zaid, that the books would go out last week and arrive by the past weekend?

 

I'd still like to see him on the probation list for that, and the HOS Christmas eve if the books are not delivered by then.

 

I expect much ranting and whining because it's the holiday. Lots of forgiveness because of the season, so I figure this way at least we will have him on the probation list.

 

It's not going to help Matt, but at least it will be Google searchable for others.

 

Bob is not going to be selling here anytime soon and he does not seem to buy, so it's really just for Google.

[jaybuck43]

I wasn't aware of Mark's issue with him. I see no reason for him not to be nominated at this point given his obvious disregard for members of the boards or the people he has taken advantage of. I will write up a proposal tonight/tomorrow and we will put it to a vote. Anyone with information to be added should. Pm me and I will include it in the write up.

[comix4fun]

6 people said "no" so far on the poll.

 

Question for the 5 of you that aren't solarcadet - we have all explained why we think he should be on the list, why do you think he shouldn't be?

 

24:8, yes/no - does solarcadet have 7 shills here? There is no reason to be afraid to speak your mind here...

 

 

If we figure out how many people on here have foreign variants to sell we might be able to predict the "NO" votes more accurately.

 

They would still want to deal with this individual_without_enough_empathy after seeing all this?

 

Good luck to them...

 

You need to post less and pay attention more

 

It was an extension of the satire Mr. Caira already started. I just got to throw in a real-life lesson as a bonus.

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

I thought he was semi serious about that part. There are a lot of people here who buy from people with less than stellar reputations.

 

Yes, it was basically a riff on how some folks would deal with the devil if he had the right books or had $18k to spend.

 

In this case it was satire of a larger board malady in an attempt to make funnies over who could possibly think what this guy did and does could be justified as "right".

[comix4fun]

You make a ton of great points Sharon. I agree.

[miraclemet]

(I work nights and it took me a while to catch up, this thread and the others)

 

To answer Slym as to why I voted No:

 

While I agree, Solarcadet's actions haven't been well thought out, I still think the HOS is too severe and should be reserved for the worst of the worst. (I believe it was Balls who said something similar)

 

Perhaps being the focus of a mess storm, plus a possible language barrier issue, has led to more ill advised posts from SC.

 

This is just my opinion and feel the "pile on" mentality has set in. Now it's bedtime.

 

I understand your perspective Hado, and I know HOS seems extreme, and should be used in those most egregious scenarios...

 

but think about how our marketplace works. Its a social contract between internet strangers (often). Unless stated otherwise we all agree to sell books to each other via the typical conveyances of the .

 

Thats the most basic of our marketplace protocol.

 

He violated that. Thumbed his nose even at honoring an outright in a standard sales thread.

 

If we let someone get a pass on abiding by the basic agreements of the marketplace, what are we saying? No one is socially bound to anything in the marketplace?

 

While his act was done to a particular member, it was also done to the marketplace as a whole. And to me that's the egregious nature of it.

 

While some of the HOS listees are there because of big dollar screwjobs, or repeated cheaters, I would say someone outright blows off the rules of the marketplace and shows no regret for doing so doesnt have a path to make things right.

 

There's nothing from preventing him from participating in the message board as a whole, but the fact that he doesnt give two shakes about how the marketplace abides, to me, means he isnt welcome in the marketplace.

 

And that's before even getting into his attempt to change his own sale thread rules, trying to make someone pay via paypal personal, etc etc...

[comix4fun]

(I work nights and it took me a while to catch up, this thread and the others)

 

To answer Slym as to why I voted No:

 

While I agree, Solarcadet's actions haven't been well thought out, I still think the HOS is too severe and should be reserved for the worst of the worst. (I believe it was Balls who said something similar)

 

Perhaps being the focus of a mess storm, plus a possible language barrier issue, has led to more ill advised posts from SC.

 

This is just my opinion and feel the "pile on" mentality has set in. Now it's bedtime.

 

I understand your perspective Hado, and I know HOS seems extreme, and should be used in those most egregious scenarios...

 

but think about how our marketplace works. Its a social contract between internet strangers (often). Unless stated otherwise we all agree to sell books to each other via the typical conveyances of the .

 

Thats the most basic of our marketplace protocol.

 

He violated that. Thumbed his nose even at honoring an outright in a standard sales thread.

 

If we let someone get a pass on abiding by the basic agreements of the marketplace, what are we saying? No one is socially bound to anything in the marketplace?

 

While his act was done to a particular member, it was also done to the marketplace as a whole. And to me that's the egregious nature of it.

 

While some of the HOS listees are there because of big dollar screwjobs, or repeated cheaters, I would say someone outright blows off the rules of the marketplace and shows no regret for doing so doesnt have a path to make things right.

 

There's nothing from preventing him from participating in the message board as a whole, but the fact that he doesnt give two shakes about how the marketplace abides, to me, means he isnt welcome in the marketplace.

 

And that's before even getting into his attempt to change his own sale thread rules, trying to make someone pay via paypal personal, etc etc...

 

 

And it's rare that we get a peek into someone's heart the way we did with that fake death ploy he pulled.

 

Many times we are left guessing if someone's truly good or bad or misunderstood or just mistaken. Sometimes people give you a crystal clear vision of their morals and ethics.

[Logan510]

(I work nights and it took me a while to catch up, this thread and the others)

 

To answer Slym as to why I voted No:

 

While I agree, Solarcadet's actions haven't been well thought out, I still think the HOS is too severe and should be reserved for the worst of the worst. (I believe it was Balls who said something similar)

 

Perhaps being the focus of a mess storm, plus a possible language barrier issue, has led to more ill advised posts from SC.

 

This is just my opinion and feel the "pile on" mentality has set in. Now it's bedtime.

 

I understand your perspective Hado, and I know HOS seems extreme, and should be used in those most egregious scenarios...

 

but think about how our marketplace works. Its a social contract between internet strangers (often). Unless stated otherwise we all agree to sell books to each other via the typical conveyances of the .

 

Thats the most basic of our marketplace protocol.

 

He violated that. Thumbed his nose even at honoring an outright in a standard sales thread.

 

If we let someone get a pass on abiding by the basic agreements of the marketplace, what are we saying? No one is socially bound to anything in the marketplace?

 

While his act was done to a particular member, it was also done to the marketplace as a whole. And to me that's the egregious nature of it.

 

While some of the HOS listees are there because of big dollar screwjobs, or repeated cheaters, I would say someone outright blows off the rules of the marketplace and shows no regret for doing so doesnt have a path to make things right.

 

There's nothing from preventing him from participating in the message board as a whole, but the fact that he doesnt give two shakes about how the marketplace abides, to me, means he isnt welcome in the marketplace.

 

And that's before even getting into his attempt to change his own sale thread rules, trying to make someone pay via paypal personal, etc etc...

 

 

And it's rare that we get a peek into someone's heart the way we did with that fake death ploy he pulled.

 

Many times we are left guessing if someone's truly good or bad or misunderstood or just mistaken. Sometimes people give you a crystal clear vision of their morals and ethics.

 

The fact that he did that to garner sympathy as an excuse for not shipping books makes him a tool in my book. That alone...regardless of the other shenanigans..makes him HOS worthy IMHO.

[comix4fun]

(I work nights and it took me a while to catch up, this thread and the others)

 

To answer Slym as to why I voted No:

 

While I agree, Solarcadet's actions haven't been well thought out, I still think the HOS is too severe and should be reserved for the worst of the worst. (I believe it was Balls who said something similar)

 

Perhaps being the focus of a mess storm, plus a possible language barrier issue, has led to more ill advised posts from SC.

 

This is just my opinion and feel the "pile on" mentality has set in. Now it's bedtime.

 

I understand your perspective Hado, and I know HOS seems extreme, and should be used in those most egregious scenarios...

 

but think about how our marketplace works. Its a social contract between internet strangers (often). Unless stated otherwise we all agree to sell books to each other via the typical conveyances of the .

 

Thats the most basic of our marketplace protocol.

 

He violated that. Thumbed his nose even at honoring an outright in a standard sales thread.

 

If we let someone get a pass on abiding by the basic agreements of the marketplace, what are we saying? No one is socially bound to anything in the marketplace?

 

While his act was done to a particular member, it was also done to the marketplace as a whole. And to me that's the egregious nature of it.

 

While some of the HOS listees are there because of big dollar screwjobs, or repeated cheaters, I would say someone outright blows off the rules of the marketplace and shows no regret for doing so doesnt have a path to make things right.

 

There's nothing from preventing him from participating in the message board as a whole, but the fact that he doesnt give two shakes about how the marketplace abides, to me, means he isnt welcome in the marketplace.

 

And that's before even getting into his attempt to change his own sale thread rules, trying to make someone pay via paypal personal, etc etc...

 

 

And it's rare that we get a peek into someone's heart the way we did with that fake death ploy he pulled.

 

Many times we are left guessing if someone's truly good or bad or misunderstood or just mistaken. Sometimes people give you a crystal clear vision of their morals and ethics.

 

The fact that he did that to garner sympathy as an excuse for not shipping books makes him a tool in my book. That alone...regardless of the other shenanigans..makes him HOS worthy IMHO.

 

Yep.

 

He really revealed something about himself with that move.

 

Removed all doubt in my mind as to what he's willing to do and how low he's willing to go.

[miraclemet]

Does anyone have a link to that original back and forth or the sales thread that started it (the Cancer/Dying excuse one, not the most recent).

 

I found where it was being quoted over in Copper/Modern, but couldnt find the original instance.

 

maybe its been cadet-scrubbed?