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Sale of the Year - New Mutants #98 CGC 9.9 for $12,250
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Started by delekkerste,

1,155 posts in this topic

DarkKnightReturns

DarkKnightReturns

Posted
Posted
CGC and the Internet have definitively increased the population of one segment of the collecting market--high grade collectors. If it wasn't so easy to get a complete collection of lower-grade books via eBay and dealer sites, I would have never gravitated to high grade so quickly, or perhaps ever. And even if I had started collecting high grade with no Internet to push me towards it, if certification wasn't around, undisclosed additive restoration could have forced me right back out of high grade years ago.

 

Pre-CGC, guys hunting through longboxes for 9.6 and 9.8 copies were as rare as the chupacabra, .

 

:hi:

 

You're absolutely right, back then, a "what would end up to be" an 8.0 was the same thing as a "what would end up to be" 9.8, and sold for the same amount, unless it was being sold by a VERY savvy seller, and then it was much, much more expensive,. Of course, not even the super anal high grade collectors like me could conceive of what was to come. We just picked out "the very best we could find." The number of people who rejected "what would become 9.0 or lower" books in the 90's? What, maybe 100?

 

And of those, how many could actually afford to hunt out these copies in Silver and earlier? 10? 15? 20? Certainly not me.

 

High grade collectors, though, form a tiny, tiny niche segment of an already wildly shrunken market, so while that market has definitely been birthed and wildly grown by the advent of CGC, it's still just a tiny part of an already small market to begin with.

 

Pre CGC and even before I started to take notice of CGC in its early years everything that was 9.2 or better I simply called near mint. I often have trouble picking out what a 9.4 (NM) would be now because to me thats what 9.6 and 9.8's used to be. I'm often surprised at the little defects that some 9.4 CGC's have.

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EastEnd

EastEnd

Posted
Posted

Don't think it matters. The point is that there is growth over the last ten years... and a lot of it... when many other collectible fields (including modern comic books) are shrinking.

 

It absolutely does.

 

Where is this "growth" you're talking about?

 

Print runs are averaging out to be the same as they were 10 years ago.

 

With one exception, the rest of the market is flat, especially when comparing the weakened dollar. I can buy the same books...in the same mid to low grade conditions...for the same amount, dollar power wise, as I was doing in 1999. And in 1999, I was selling key modern independents for 5-10 times what I could get for them now.

 

If all the "growth" is entirely in one niche market....ultra high grade books...that was essentially invented with CGC, then clearly the industry as a whole has not grown.

 

Do you know how much the high grade market accounts for all of comics, unit wise? Oh, sure, they suck up the lion's share of the DOLLARS spent on back issues...but unit wise? Not even close.

 

In case you were wondering, my original post to which you responded had to do with the entire industry, not just the niche of ultra high grade collecting.

 

I also think there's a lot more depth to today's environment. Sure there were a lot of collectors in the early nineties... but many of them were collecting recent back issues hoping to make the future killing. Today's collector is heavily focused on gold, silver and bronze which I think is much healthier for the hobby.

 

These are not collectors you're referring to. They're speculators! HUGE difference!

 

Like I said, you need to separate readers from collectors. The print runs of modern comics are irrelevant when considering whether there's been growth in the back issue collector base... they are very distinct markets... I belong to one and not the other and I suspect many others are just like me. And whether the growth is coming from new folks or collectors that are returning from the nineties I think is also largely irrelevant -- the point -- once again -- is that they're coming. The same cannot be said for most other collectible fields... baseball card collectors from the early nineties are not coming back to buy baseball cards again... same with stamps... or beannie babies... etc..

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
CGC and the Internet have definitively increased the population of one segment of the collecting market--high grade collectors. If it wasn't so easy to get a complete collection of lower-grade books via eBay and dealer sites, I would have never gravitated to high grade so quickly, or perhaps ever. And even if I had started collecting high grade with no Internet to push me towards it, if certification wasn't around, undisclosed additive restoration could have forced me right back out of high grade years ago.

 

Pre-CGC, guys hunting through longboxes for 9.6 and 9.8 copies were as rare as the chupacabra, .

 

:hi:

 

You're absolutely right, back then, a "what would end up to be" an 8.0 was the same thing as a "what would end up to be" 9.8, and sold for the same amount, unless it was being sold by a VERY savvy seller, and then it was much, much more expensive,. Of course, not even the super anal high grade collectors like me could conceive of what was to come. We just picked out "the very best we could find." The number of people who rejected "what would become 9.0 or lower" books in the 90's? What, maybe 100?

 

And of those, how many could actually afford to hunt out these copies in Silver and earlier? 10? 15? 20? Certainly not me.

 

High grade collectors, though, form a tiny, tiny niche segment of an already wildly shrunken market, so while that market has definitely been birthed and wildly grown by the advent of CGC, it's still just a tiny part of an already small market to begin with.

 

Pre CGC and even before I started to take notice of CGC in its early years everything that was 9.2 or better I simply called near mint. I often have trouble picking out what a 9.4 (NM) would be now because to me thats what 9.6 and 9.8's used to be. I'm often surprised at the little defects that some 9.4 CGC's have.

 

I am, too. I have a 9.2 Albedo #1 that has a 1 1/4 inch deep spine FOLD...not crease, not mark, not bend...a FOLD, with a peak, valley, the works.

 

I wouldn't have graded that book above VF, MAYBE.

 

Which tells me I gave away a lot of really cherry stuff in the late 90's/early 2000's that were undergraded...

 

I miss the Showcase #27 the most.

 

Oh well.

 

lol

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comicalgems

comicalgems

Posted
Posted

 

And I know why trades have been so disdained...they're "reprints"...and the proscription against "collecting reprints" is deeeeeply ingrained in generations fo collectors.

 

Yep. I told my LCS owner yesterday to order me a Walking Dead Trade every time a new one became available and he looked at me confused because I've also got the new issues being pulled as well and he verified that I wanted both and I said "Yes, that's right."

 

The reason, I started the series with the TPBs and now I want both, I want the collected TPBs and I want the individual issues. Wretched collector bug!

 

I can think of five LCS's immediately off the top of my head near me that have extensive amounts of back issues.

 

However, the key issue market has gotten pretty thin around here with shop owners putting non-key SA and BA books up on their walls and seeking top prices.

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted

Don't think it matters. The point is that there is growth over the last ten years... and a lot of it... when many other collectible fields (including modern comic books) are shrinking.

 

It absolutely does.

 

Where is this "growth" you're talking about?

 

Print runs are averaging out to be the same as they were 10 years ago.

 

With one exception, the rest of the market is flat, especially when comparing the weakened dollar. I can buy the same books...in the same mid to low grade conditions...for the same amount, dollar power wise, as I was doing in 1999. And in 1999, I was selling key modern independents for 5-10 times what I could get for them now.

 

If all the "growth" is entirely in one niche market....ultra high grade books...that was essentially invented with CGC, then clearly the industry as a whole has not grown.

 

Do you know how much the high grade market accounts for all of comics, unit wise? Oh, sure, they suck up the lion's share of the DOLLARS spent on back issues...but unit wise? Not even close.

 

In case you were wondering, my original post to which you responded had to do with the entire industry, not just the niche of ultra high grade collecting.

 

I also think there's a lot more depth to today's environment. Sure there were a lot of collectors in the early nineties... but many of them were collecting recent back issues hoping to make the future killing. Today's collector is heavily focused on gold, silver and bronze which I think is much healthier for the hobby.

 

These are not collectors you're referring to. They're speculators! HUGE difference!

 

Like I said, you need to separate readers from collectors.

 

I...already...did...that.

 

TWICE.

 

Are you reading what I'm typing...?

 

The print runs of modern comics are irrelevant when considering whether there's been growth in the back issue collector base...

 

Not only are they NOT "irrelevant", they are, in fact, a good indicator of activity.

 

How do you think people get into comics? Especially in the 21st century?

 

Do you imagine they wander into a COMIC shop that may have back issues, and then just decide to pick one at random?

 

Or do you think, like most people, they discover NEW comics, and THEN become interested in back issues?

 

It is completely natural for there to be overlap between new issues and back issues...bcause today's new issue is NEXT MONTH'S back issue.

 

It ain't rocket science.

 

they are very distinct markets... I belong to one and not the other and I suspect many others are just like me. And whether the growth is coming from new folks or collectors that are returning from the nineties I think is also largely irrelevant -- the point -- once again -- is that they're coming.

 

- Once again -

 

No.

 

They're not.

 

At least, not in ANY significant numbers. The values of nearly everything in the back issue market, except the ultra high grade stuff, is flat or declining. And the values of the ultra high grade late Bronze, Copper, and Modern are ALSO declining.

 

Sorry, but the numbers fail to support your claim.

 

(thumbs u

 

The same cannot be said for most other collectible fields... baseball card collectors from the early nineties are not coming back to buy baseball cards again... same with stamps... or beannie babies... etc..

 

I don't give a rusty rat's about other fields, so that point can be laid to rest. It is not debated.

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comix4fun

comix4fun

Posted
Posted

 

I come in usually make the deal since the buyer is "motivated" and then give the owner a bird dog fee for the hook-up..

 

 

That lingo sounds like the set up of an Oceans 11 caper.

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EastEnd

EastEnd

Posted
Posted

Don't think it matters. The point is that there is growth over the last ten years... and a lot of it... when many other collectible fields (including modern comic books) are shrinking.

 

It absolutely does.

 

Where is this "growth" you're talking about?

 

Print runs are averaging out to be the same as they were 10 years ago.

 

With one exception, the rest of the market is flat, especially when comparing the weakened dollar. I can buy the same books...in the same mid to low grade conditions...for the same amount, dollar power wise, as I was doing in 1999. And in 1999, I was selling key modern independents for 5-10 times what I could get for them now.

 

If all the "growth" is entirely in one niche market....ultra high grade books...that was essentially invented with CGC, then clearly the industry as a whole has not grown.

 

Do you know how much the high grade market accounts for all of comics, unit wise? Oh, sure, they suck up the lion's share of the DOLLARS spent on back issues...but unit wise? Not even close.

 

In case you were wondering, my original post to which you responded had to do with the entire industry, not just the niche of ultra high grade collecting.

 

I also think there's a lot more depth to today's environment. Sure there were a lot of collectors in the early nineties... but many of them were collecting recent back issues hoping to make the future killing. Today's collector is heavily focused on gold, silver and bronze which I think is much healthier for the hobby.

 

These are not collectors you're referring to. They're speculators! HUGE difference!

 

Like I said, you need to separate readers from collectors.

 

I...already...did...that.

 

TWICE.

 

Are you reading what I'm typing...?

 

The print runs of modern comics are irrelevant when considering whether there's been growth in the back issue collector base...

 

Not only are they NOT "irrelevant", they are, in fact, a good indicator of activity.

 

How do you think people get into comics? Especially in the 21st century?

 

Do you imagine they wander into a COMIC shop that may have back issues, and then just decide to pick one at random?

 

Or do you think, like most people, they discover NEW comics, and THEN become interested in back issues?

 

It is completely natural for there to be overlap between new issues and back issues...bcause today's new issue is NEXT MONTH'S back issue.

 

It ain't rocket science.

 

they are very distinct markets... I belong to one and not the other and I suspect many others are just like me. And whether the growth is coming from new folks or collectors that are returning from the nineties I think is also largely irrelevant -- the point -- once again -- is that they're coming.

 

- Once again -

 

No.

 

They're not.

 

At least, not in ANY significant numbers. The values of nearly everything in the back issue market, except the ultra high grade stuff, is flat or declining. And the values of the ultra high grade late Bronze, Copper, and Modern are ALSO declining.

 

Sorry, but the numbers fail to support your claim.

 

(thumbs u

 

The same cannot be said for most other collectible fields... baseball card collectors from the early nineties are not coming back to buy baseball cards again... same with stamps... or beannie babies... etc..

 

I don't give a rusty rat's about other fields, so that point can be laid to rest. It is not debated.

 

Ok, I see where this discussion is going... don't really see any point in discussing it with you further.

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Currin Comics

Currin Comics

Posted
Posted

 

I come in usually make the deal since the buyer is "motivated" and then give the owner a bird dog fee for the hook-up..

 

 

That lingo sounds like the set up of an Oceans 11 caper.

 

 

:signfunny:......god, I do love this place.....how did I ever stay away so long :applause:

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted

 

Ok, I see where this discussion is going... don't really see any point in discussing it with you further.

 

If you're going to insist on making statements that aren't true, you're going to be challenged.

 

If you don't wish to be challenged, don't make untrue statements.

 

*I* get challenged when I make TRUE statements.

 

This is not a board for the faint of heart.

 

Good luck!

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MR.COMICBOOK

MR.COMICBOOK

Posted
Posted

 

I may be in the minority, but I really don't think anything is going to replace actual printed comics....or other printed fiction...for a very, very long time.

 

People at the forefront of this digital "revolution" are totally ignoring the visceral reaction to holding a piece of printed stuff in your hands, kicking back on the couch, and reading it.

 

Agreed.

 

They are developing new inks now that are pleasing for your eyes, lets keep a eye out for the new i-tablet, its suppose to be the ultimate comic book reader,It will make you want to read comics online(so they say).

Mythical Apple iTablet to be Ultimate Comic Book Reader?

 

So long as humanity has the senses of "touch" and "smell", "digital stuff" is not going to replace the real thing permanently, no matter what it is.

I dunno I read all my newspapers/text books online and never buy a newspaper at the store anymore. super hero comic books seem to be the last holdout, even manga is making progress online.It sure does make for good discussion. :)

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted

 

I may be in the minority, but I really don't think anything is going to replace actual printed comics....or other printed fiction...for a very, very long time.

 

People at the forefront of this digital "revolution" are totally ignoring the visceral reaction to holding a piece of printed stuff in your hands, kicking back on the couch, and reading it.

 

Agreed.

 

They are developing new inks now that are pleasing for your eyes, lets keep a eye out for the new i-tablet, its suppose to be the ultimate comic book reader,It will make you want to read comics online(so they say).

Mythical Apple iTablet to be Ultimate Comic Book Reader?

 

So long as humanity has the senses of "touch" and "smell", "digital stuff" is not going to replace the real thing permanently, no matter what it is.

I dunno I read all my newspapers/text books online and never buy a newspaper at the store anymore. super hero comic books seem to be the last holdout, even manga is making progress online.It sure does make for good discussion. :)

 

Not talking about newspapers, as noted previously ("printed fiction.")

 

Yes I did say "no matter what it is", but I was referring to the big picture, not the various forms of print.

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Currin Comics

Currin Comics

Posted
Posted
Just about all media content is easier to access and more enjoyable online, eventually they will figure out how to make superhero comics enjoyable on the net.

 

 

Seems like all the cartoons on cable already serve this function-No? Just watch and listen hm

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shortstack comics

shortstack comics

Posted
Posted

 

I may be in the minority, but I really don't think anything is going to replace actual printed comics....or other printed fiction...for a very, very long time.

 

People at the forefront of this digital "revolution" are totally ignoring the visceral reaction to holding a piece of printed stuff in your hands, kicking back on the couch, and reading it.

 

Agreed.

 

They are developing new inks now that are pleasing for your eyes, lets keep a eye out for the new i-tablet, its suppose to be the ultimate comic book reader,It will make you want to read comics online(so they say).

Mythical Apple iTablet to be Ultimate Comic Book Reader?

 

So long as humanity has the senses of "touch" and "smell", "digital stuff" is not going to replace the real thing permanently, no matter what it is.

I dunno I read all my newspapers/text books online and never buy a newspaper at the store anymore. super hero comic books seem to be the last holdout, even manga is making progress online.It sure does make for good discussion. :)

 

Not talking about newspapers, as noted previously ("printed fiction.")

 

Yes I did say "no matter what it is", but I was referring to the big picture, not the various forms of print.

 

I staddle the line on both of your opinions. I don't think digital comics/books will ever completely replace physical printed copies, BUT I do think very strongly that they will be a great compliment.

 

I have said MANY times on these boards that I cannot wait for a digital platform that all publishers will support. Once device comes out, I will definately jump on. Many of the books that I get copies of today will fall by the wayside for digital copies. It will be cheaper to buy more copies and vastly easier to store.

 

That doesn't mean I'm going to stop buying physical copies all together. I am one of the comic book "nerds" that love to both read and collect comics. For the titles I collect, I will definately still be purchasing physical copies, but again, why waste extra money and space on physical copies of books that I purchase only to read? :shrug:

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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

Posted
Posted
1st appearance Deadpool

 

This book will be up there with Hulk 181 in 10 years

 

12k will look like a steal

 

before pressing, maybe, after pressing, no. just look at gi joe 21 as an example and that book is older. :gossip:

 

Your example confounds me as there are no 9.9 copies of GI Joe 21. ???

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