The Pre-Robin Tec Club 18 18

[Professor K]

On 10/26/2023 at 6:26 PM, Yorick said:

It may have a different department number.  @Primetime, do you know whether the department number is different on the back of Action 12 and Detective 27?

Wow, you really knew exactly who to ask. 

On 10/26/2023 at 7:32 PM, Primetime said:

Unlike Timely, DC gold from this time period almost always had matching inside BCs/outside BCs. This makes it easier to marry up missing parts. If one needed a BC to complete their Tec 27, a much cheaper alternative would be to find an incomplete Action 12 that has a BC. 

The outside BC has Dept 995 on both books. The inside BC is a house ad for AA 2 and Movie Comics 2. 

Wow, you really knew exactly how to answer. . Thanks for that thorough and good explanation. So is there any way the boys down at the CGC lab could possibly tell which book it came from (Tec 27 or AC 12)? Maybe if there was detectable ink transfer from the last page to the inside of the back cover.  I'm not implying or suspecting it's from an AC 12.    With what you said being fact, and I know it's not my place to say, but now I think it would have been better with just the front cover with a Blue label. 

[woowoo]

On 10/26/2023 at 10:15 PM, Professor K said:

Wow, you really knew exactly who to ask. 

Wow, you really knew exactly how to answer. . Thanks for that thorough and good explanation. So is there any way the boys down at the CGC lab could possibly tell which book it came from (Tec 27 or AC 12)? Maybe if there was detectable ink transfer from the last page to the inside of the back cover.  I'm not implying or suspecting it's from an AC 12.    With what you said being fact, and I know it's not my place to say, but now I think it would have been better with just the front cover with a Blue label. 

I don't think CGC is saying it's the wrong back cover. I think they are saying it's not the original back cover to this Detective 27 front cover hence Married label.

[Primetime]

On 10/26/2023 at 10:15 PM, Professor K said:

Wow, you really knew exactly who to ask. 

Wow, you really knew exactly how to answer. . Thanks for that thorough and good explanation. So is there any way the boys down at the CGC lab could possibly tell which book it came from (Tec 27 or AC 12)? Maybe if there was detectable ink transfer from the last page to the inside of the back cover.  I'm not implying or suspecting it's from an AC 12.    With what you said being fact, and I know it's not my place to say, but now I think it would have been better with just the front cover with a Blue label. 

I don’t believe it’s possible to tell if the BC is from an A12 or Tec 27. One would have to study as many BCs (inside and out) from both books to see if there are any technical/minute ink differences. Judging from the clink scans, cgc could probably tell that the two covers were from different copies (if the BC was from another Tec 27) or simply that the split covers just don’t match up cleanly at their separation line (from an A12 or Tec 27). The inside of both covers (consistent tanning or not) can also be a strong clue if the covers are from two different copies/books. It would be odd to have a tanned inside FC but a more whiter/supple BC and vise versa. This would suggest married covers. 

[SushiX]

On 10/27/2023 at 9:13 AM, Primetime said:

I don’t believe it’s possible to tell if the BC is from an A12 or Tec 27. One would have to study as many BCs (inside and out) from both books to see if there are any technical/minute ink differences. Judging from the clink scans, cgc could probably tell that the two covers were from different copies (if the BC was from another Tec 27) or simply that the split covers just don’t match up cleanly at their separation line (from an A12 or Tec 27). The inside of both covers (consistent tanning or not) can also be a strong clue if the covers are from two different copies/books. It would be odd to have a tanned inside FC but a more whiter/supple BC and vise versa. This would suggest married covers. 

Hi ben!

[Primetime]

On 10/27/2023 at 7:32 AM, woowoo said:

I don't think CGC is saying it's the wrong back cover. I think they are saying it's not the original back cover to this Detective 27 front cover hence Married label.

It is the correct BC, but it’s either from a different Tec 27 copy or from an Action 12. The BC could also be from another DC with a May, 1939 publishing date like Adventure 38 or More Fun 43. Those both have Dept 995 codes on the BCs but I don’t know if the house ad on the inside BC is the same. I do know that AA2 and Movie Comics 2 are not candidates because their BCs have Dept 775 which does not match. 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Primetime

[Primetime]

On 10/27/2023 at 9:19 AM, SushiX said:

Hi ben!

👋🏽😀
Ken 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Primetime

[Professor K]

On 10/27/2023 at 10:32 AM, woowoo said:

I don't think CGC is saying it's the wrong back cover. I think they are saying it's not the original back cover to this Detective 27 front cover hence Married label.

I know. But from what Primetime said I think there is no 100% conclusive way to tell for sure. From the ways they can tell I would think the most conclusive way would be from the split of the covers, if both the front and back were once joined. This being a married cover that would not apply. again to be clear I'm not suggesting the back cover is not from a 27. I'm no rebelrouser. On the other hand knowing what I know now I don't think because it's a married cover that it could be 100% conclusive. That's the #2 reason I won't be bidding. The #1 reason is I have no money. 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Professor K
spelling correction

[Yorick]

On 10/27/2023 at 9:13 AM, Primetime said:

simply that the split covers just don’t match up cleanly at their separation line (from an A12 or Tec 27). The inside of both covers (consistent tanning or not) can also be a strong clue if the covers are from two different copies/books

I was going to write the same.  Staple position holes, tears, staining...  Then I was thinking if you're trying to determine which book it was from (AC12 or Tec 27), you'd need EVERY incomplete copy to determine exactly which ONE it came from....  impossible.

[Yorick]

On 10/27/2023 at 9:22 AM, Primetime said:

that AA2

Ahhh!  THAT was the book I had suggested as a replacement BC option which you schooled me on! 

[Yorick]

On 10/27/2023 at 11:21 AM, Professor K said:

The #1 reason is I have no money

OR, just not enough to buy this cover.  It's going to be expensive. 

[Yorick]

On 10/26/2023 at 10:15 PM, Professor K said:

Maybe if there was detectable ink transfer from the last page to the inside of the back cover

[Dr. Balls]

FWIW, I poured over the back cover of Tec 27 and AC 12 looking for a possible indicator of an artwork change between the two books (if there were a typo, change or something else), and nothing. Also, on the 10¢ telephone ad in the upper right, there is a imperfection in the ad copy that is on the black plate that appears on both books - which is an interesting Quality Control issue. Either the stripper or pressman didn't catch it, or they didn't care - as it looks like the original camera art was flawed and used.

The two copies I chose to look at had very different readability issues in the copy. The black plate for the type doesn't have anything registering against it (and would thus create "blurry" type if not registered correctly against other colors, but this is not the case) - but it appears degraded on the Action 12, which I think was printed after Detective 27 (please correct me if I'm wrong).

It would require more investigative work, but if the camera art had been used on Tec 27, but a second generation version of the art used on AC 12 - that could be explained why there is noticeable quality differences in the body copy. This would provide a way to determine which back cover it is - but would require pretty much unanimous proof that one book has substandard quality to the look of the back cover advertisement.

A person would have to look at a lot of these in high res to make a more determined guess, but that was what I noticed in my curious dive into this.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Dr. Balls

[lou_fine]

On 10/27/2023 at 9:13 AM, Primetime said:

I don’t believe it’s possible to tell if the BC is from an A12 or Tec 27.

 

On 10/27/2023 at 12:23 PM, Dr. Balls said:

FWIW, I poured over the back cover of Tec 27 and AC 12 looking for a possible indicator of an artwork change between the two books (if there were a typo, change or something else), and nothing. Also, on the 10¢ telephone ad in the upper right, there is a imperfection in the ad copy that is on the black plate that appears on both books

Gee, and I always thought it was the gorgeous Zatara si-fi cover and 1-panel Batman ad for 'Tec 27 that made the HTF Action 12 (only one graded copy to date in CGC 8.0 and above) so much more valuable than most of the other earlier Action issues, save the ones with the Superman covers.     

[Professor K]

On 10/27/2023 at 1:15 AM, Professor K said:

 

 Maybe if there was detectable ink transfer from the last page to the inside of the back cover. 

 

On 10/27/2023 at 2:46 PM, Yorick said:

Oh boy this is awkward. No just kidding. Oh now I made it awkward.  I once bought bundles of Bronze books all the same issues wrapped in thick plastic and taped tightly. Supposedly they were from a distributor and never hit the rack. NM books but on a lot of them the ink from the back cover of some transferred to the front cover of the book beneath it. Not heavy but noticable especially in the white areas. They were sealed like that in bundles of 25 for about 30 years until I opened them. 

I was thinking maybe under the right type of light or with some high tech gizmo they could see traces of ink transfer from the back of the last page to the inside of the back cover, ink so faint that can't be seen with the naked eye. Ah maybe it was a funny post. 

[Yorick]

On 10/27/2023 at 2:20 PM, lou_fine said:

the gorgeous Zatara si-fi cover

[Yorick]

On 10/27/2023 at 10:53 PM, Professor K said:

 

Oh boy this is awkward. No just kidding. Oh now I made it awkward.  I once bought bundles of Bronze books all the same issues wrapped in thick plastic and taped tightly. Supposedly they were from a distributor and never hit the rack. NM books but on a lot of them the ink from the back cover of some transferred to the front cover of the book beneath it. Not heavy but noticable especially in the white areas. They were sealed like that in bundles of 25 for about 30 years until I opened them. 

I was thinking maybe under the right type of light or with some high tech gizmo they could see traces of ink transfer from the back of the last page to the inside of the back cover, ink so faint that can't be seen with the naked eye. Ah maybe it was a funny post. 

Ahh.  I understand.  I thought you meant some invisible ink on the inside of the cover wrap.  Something that would cross from the front page to the back. 

Not a bad thought though.  I think that type of ink transfer would only occur if you have a stack that was exposed to moisture.  You don't see ink transfer on Mile High copies, and those were all stacked without bags/boards.

[Professor K]

On 10/28/2023 at 2:26 PM, Yorick said:

Ahh.  I understand.  I thought you meant some invisible ink on the inside of the cover wrap.  Something that would cross from the front page to the back. 

Not a bad thought though.  I think that type of ink transfer would only occur if you have a stack that was exposed to moisture.  You don't see ink transfer on Mile High copies, and those were all stacked without bags/boards.

Hey....You know you're right, moisture. Humidity, changes in humidity, would do that to books sealed together in plastic in bundles of 25. So on reconsideration it was a  after all. 

 

[Gotham Kid]

 

[Dark Knight]

Strong prices

[Point Five]

On 11/9/2023 at 4:52 PM, Dark Knight said:

Strong prices

If I'm honest, except for the obvious key books I thought prices were pretty soft, the early Bats in particular. The grades were admittedly low and some were heavily restored, but even so I think the floor for *any* copy on e.g. ebay is probably higher.