Comic book collecting with a foreign variant focus 20 20

[lscomics]

 

If I remember correctly Iron Man shared a book with another character, Daredevil maybe? I don't recall seeing Italian versions of any of the Silver or Bronze Age Iron Man covers though. Are there any?

[vaillant]

Iron Man never had a book of his own. It was published initally as a backup feature to Daredevil (starting with Devil #23), then the Daredevil title changed to reflect the incorporation of Iron Man and subsequently Ghost Rider.

 

The italian Devils in the higher numbers are among the scarcest books to find in grade, bound to command a $30-40 each which is uncommon for the age range of the books. They surely had a lower print run than the italian Spidey, especially the last ones (series closed with #126).

 

Iron Man and Daredevil eventually found their place on the pages of l’Uomo Ragno. Ghost was sporadically published here and there after the italian Devil closed, but remained mostly unpublished until they did a trade paperback in recent years (without much love, anyway).

 

So, this is officially the italian edition of TOS #39 (not a copy of mine):

 

 

Devil #105 is the first issue with the "combined" logo showing the magazine is shared with Iron Man and Ghost Rider (which as you can see debuts this issue, and thus the book does not use a Daredevil cover but the Marvel Spotlight #5 one instead):

 

And here you find a full chronology of TOS:

http://www.archivioitaliamarvel.com/cgi-bin/comicsdb.pl?action=view&cronology=652&pnumber=39

 

To access all the Iron Man titles see here: http://www.archivioitaliamarvel.com/cgi-bin/comicsdb.pl?action=family&fname=Iron%20Man

[vaillant]

And this is the final issue (but not the scarcest):

 

[Mijael.Levy]

Yours has staples??

Yes it does.

 

Great man ,i am selling it already at ebay, but if if no one buys it i am gonna try to find someone here on Mexico to help me restore it

 

I'm interested. PM me because I couldn't find the eBay auction. [/quote

 

Already PM you man

Edited September 22, 2013 by Mijael77

[solarcadet]

 

thats a cool book. Matt gave me his what a nice little treasure!!

 

 

[Cyclops]

That Devil #105 is awesome.

[vaillant]

@Cyclops: It’s a spare copy, if lscomics does not need it, I will make it available in my sales thread (well, if I decide to sell my Devils, I will have my copy available as well).

[Silver Surfer]

[Chespirito]

Wow...you must really be excited about that book dude

[Silver Surfer]

Wow...you must really be excited about that book dude

 

Well I want high grade Canadian Edition copies and a complete run of Thor books so I will pick up whatever I can get my hands on. Besides this is one of the few late BA/CA issues that have any real significance and the Canadian copies in high grade are not easy to come by so I will hoard.

[Silver Surfer]

[lscomics]

Here's a few Canadian things I just got in the mail today.

 

 

[Chespirito]

Awesome stuff being posted!

[Define999]

Heck yea! Amazingly cool stuff guys! Im particularly jealous of both of Tims Editions Heritage Spidey 129's!!!!!

[Define999]

I posted this for a boardie at a different forum... thought it belonged here as well. Eventually this is going to make it into a full blown article at FCC magazine but its fun for now.....

 

A analysis of cover variations between American issues and its foreign counterpart

 

I am not planning on going into great detail about the interiors of the books for this. Only the covers at this time folks. Many of these books have very very different insides. Weather they be all black and white, different paper stock, or collections of different issues. I am just going to speak a little bit about my opinion on the foreign cover and how it stacks up and is possibly better or just plain bizarre compared to the the American original.

 

Now to start, the Italian 300! There are a lot of amazing 300 foreigns, but this issue breaks the mold entirely. A cover stock that is thicker and almost a card stock makes this issue feel very nice in your hands. Also the treatment of the iconic Mcfarlene art is very special in my opinion. For many fans the 300 is a kinda of love or hate type of thing. No one argues with the fact that Venoms impact is huge and the book is super-key. But many have complained that the 300 lettering in the back makes this cover so busy and fugly. Personally I like the contorted spidey pose in the circle, but I agree the 300 lettering is fugly and an eyesore at best and damn ugly at worst.

 

The Italian edition does completely away with this graphic element. And instead places Spidey and the circle in a sea of black that more closely at least to me symbolizes Venom’s impact on Spidey and solidifies his place in the greater marvel universe. The Italians took the blue of the circle and continued it in the title above. The issue info/date panel is to the left towards the spine like the American version but curiously they use Spideys more traditional red outfit and a different pose.

 

Now if there is a problem with this cover it’s the fact that I think the Venom callout is a little big? I would have preferred it a little smaller and maybe a better font so as to maintain the minimalist feel better…. But this is a minor gripe. I will tell you this though…. When I show this book to Spidey Mcfarlene crazies usually the first response is “wow”! Then with at least a certain percentage I hear a “I have to have that book.” “Do you wanna sell it? “no” I politely say and walk away leaving their minds blown that at least in my view the Italians did a better job both creatively and symbolically with Venoms first big key issue.

 

 

Next…. The Bats 227! Iconic cover, first time Batman cries in a comic book as well I think…. And a book that is consistently listed as one of Adams top ten bats cover art. The original I have always believed is a mash up of washtone/greytone techniques that combine with traditional coloring to make the cover. Bats in the sky is done using the washtone/greytone style I think? Then the other elements like the mansion and everything below it is colored traditionally. Just a theory of mine but no matter….

 

The Brazilian EBALS are one of the coolest and most interesting of all the South American published foreigns. Again a thicker and higher quality paper stock is used and the book is slightly bigger I believe than its American counterpart. First thing you notice of course is the difference in the clouds and the little bats. This immediately affects the contrast of Batman in the background and makes him “pop” better in my opinion. Also Bats seems more traditionally colored if even a little rougher in style. Where this cover really shines though is something you will notice with all the EBAL books if you look a little closer at the coloration. These books have a pastel painted look and feel to them. My theory is because most EBALS are black and white on the insides they might have not received color art from DC for these specific issues at all? Maybe a licensing thing or something? Who knows…. But it appears the EBAL publisher had much of the cover art re-done by thier own artists.

 

Maybe the colorist used the DC and Marvel originals as a guide or maybe not in some instances? But when the color was applied it also appears like some detail was lost in the black lines of the original artwork. If you look at tons of EBALS like I do you start to notice this color aspect repeat itself over multiple titles and both Marvel and DC books. The simplification of the black printing plate combined with a new redone color palette give many EBALS a painted pastel look to all the covers.

 

Now believe me when I tell you that these books are stunning to behold in hand. When comparing a EBAL with its American counterpart this coloring aspect really shines thru! Another aspect of the EBAL book is the removal of a lot of clutter from the cover like the comics code stamp, the Robin callout and using a smaller title. Maybe my only problem with the EBAL version of the 227 is the title that lacks personality in comparison to the traditional American bats logo. Also EBAL used a block date and issue panel for the issue info instead of floating it on the right side like the American version. I believe this lack of clutter and a very interesting coloring style combined with a more in your face bats in the sky makes this issue just maybe a tad bit better from an artistic perspective.

 

My idea is if Neal Adams had both of these covers as posters at his booth at shows he would probably sell a healthy amount of the Brazilian style. Probably more than anyone realizes…..

 

 

Now these next 2 I will admit are not necessarily better than the American originals but they have novel elements that make them awesome!

 

Jonah Hex is in trouble, and it looks like some very bad men are going to give him a very bad day. The interesting thing about the Swedish foreign is its inclusion of blood near the face of Jonah. Why and how did it get there? Im interested in the idea that maybe it was there originally in the American art and was removed later by DC thru coloration? Or, was it put there by the Swedish artists who felt like the original art didn’t convey enough danger for our favorite facial scarred hero? I will be the first to admit that the coloration of the Swedish issue leaves some to be desired. The candle light glow is completely missing causing this cover to seem monochromatic in brown hues. Also the title with the tomahawk is terrible looking. I understand they were going for a more western Indian aesthetic but I just don’t like the font? Not that the DC font is that much better but it just worked better.

 

Maybe the hues and the other elements make for a grittier cover… but for sure the blood does it for me. It imparts the danger that Jonah is in and the fact that he was beaten already. This more adult theming of the Swedish cover despite the ugly coloration makes it fit the grittier world of Jonah Hex better in my opinion again. And I don’t know but I just like it…..

 

 

 

Now this brings me to the last compare and contrast….

 

WTF man! What is this? Well because I couldn’t get this book out of Indian EBAY I just don’t know? Is it a GI Joe #1 or is it blatantly ripped off art for some other original story inside? We just don’t know for sure but you could be looking at the most novel of foreign Joe comic collectibles for sure. The art is clearly copied from Joe #1 and appears to be in the smaller digest-like size many of the Indian books from this period were. But WTF, if anyone knows anything about this book I got a foreign Joe collector that is real interested in the whys and the hows? Its ugly but oh so novel I think… I am getting ready to contact some Indian collectors over there and one of my first questions is going to be about this book. Its fun, its crude, but how can we get one.

 

 

Edited September 25, 2013 by Define999

[solarcadet]

great piece Matt! like alot of words in today's ever-changing world, i am with you that these are true variants. the term variant is self evolving/adjusting/increasing DUE to the interest in foreign comics....

 

Alot of "old school" will stay ultra conservative in their definitions of things like "Variants" just like the ever changing marriage debate.....

The sheep follow CGC straight into the slaughter year after year like

 

old School has gots to Go, time for New School to change the landscape in our labeling....

 

 

Let my people go, land of Goshen...

[Define999]

great piece Matt! like alot of words in today's ever-changing world, i am with you that these are true variants. the term variant is self evolving/adjusting/increasing DUE to the interest in foreign comics....

 

Alot of "old school" will stay ultra conservative in their definitions of things like "Variants" just like the ever changing marriage debate.....

The sheep follow CGC straight into the slaughter year after year like

 

old School has gots to Go, time for New School to change the landscape in our labeling....

 

 

Let my people go, land of Goshen...

 

Ayyyy Veyyyyy Tony, and here I was trying to downplay the whole variant/reprint thing so as not to bring up fresh argument!

 

Thank you for your support... (thumbs u I feel like a politician sometimes...

[solarcadet]

great piece Matt! like alot of words in today's ever-changing world, i am with you that these are true variants. the term variant is self evolving/adjusting/increasing DUE to the interest in foreign comics....

 

Alot of "old school" will stay ultra conservative in their definitions of things like "Variants" just like the ever changing marriage debate.....

The sheep follow CGC straight into the slaughter year after year like

 

old School has gots to Go, time for New School to change the landscape in our labeling....

 

 

Let my people go, land of Goshen...

 

Ayyyy Veyyyyy Tony, and here I was trying to downplay the whole variant/reprint thing so as not to bring up fresh argument!

 

Thank you for your support... (thumbs u I feel like a politician sometimes...

 

You would be a good speaker Matt

 

Four score and all we have to fear is I have a dream blah blah blah (thumbs u

[vaillant]

I’d like to comment on the #300: I always loved the original cover, so maybe my opinion is biased, but I substantially agree with what Matt wrote, except:

 

– the logo should have been White, maybe with a blue shadow, but white. This is reversed, and treats the shadow like it’s lighter than the logo.;

– the corner box Spidey is very likely a backwards thing: Marvel started to use the corner box with the McFarlane Spidey in Red & Blue outfit after Spidey restarted using it. The original #300 still uses the old Ron Frenz one with the Black costume, and I consider it more fitting.

– the word "Venom" should have been smaller indeed. And it’s hand drawn, not a typeface. The logo, inversely, uses a stiff typeface, but later on they’d have recovered with a hand-drawn logo catching up again with the original, which I think that as with many SA Marvel logos was drawn by Sol Brodsky (not sure about that, 'though).

 

great piece Matt! like alot of words in today's ever-changing world, i am with you that these are true variants. the term variant is self evolving/adjusting/increasing DUE to the interest in foreign comics...

Not at all. Each term as a meaning, no matter how the context may alter it to some degree. You cannot simply manipulate a word and make it do whatever you want.

This idea pervades today’s mindframe, and I consider it pretty aberrating.

[solarcadet]

the mere proof that we cannot all agree on the definition of "variant" is the proof that its not set in stone and is changing. Social media manipulates and alter meanings with newer generations taking aim on facebook, twitter, etc...

 

i would think if we ask others the definition of Variant we will get different answer that might favor their interest in collecting.