Jeffro. Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 (edited) Here is something I've always wondered what the cause was. I have commonly noticed on many of my books these rectangular indents on the cover. Usually around the staple area on either the top or bottom staple. Are these indents left from the book being stapled or perhaps from being folded? Dice, Anyone...thoughts? Afraid I can't help but i have some with this same flaw If i had to make completely blind guess I would say it's caused when the book is stapled. Perhaps some part of the stapler pressing down on the book while the staple is applied. Edited May 3, 2006 by Jeffro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
platium surfer-migration Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Hi,still trying to figure out how to use everything here ,yeah I'm a rookie.I've worked in the printing industry for some 20 years and find the discussion fascinating so far.I have a amazing spiderman 129 thats almost perfect,except the cover is offset so the front is about a 1/8 of a inch on the back will this effect the grading ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
platium surfer-migration Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Hi ,still trying to figure out how to do this ,yeah I'm a rookie,worked in the printing for around 15 years and find the discussion fascinatin.I have a amazing spiderman 129 thats almost perfect except the cover is offset where the front is about a 1/8 '" on the back. will this effect the grading? if so how much ? from a 9 to a ? THANX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comicdey Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Hi, still trying out how to use everthing here, yeah I'm a rookie....I"ve worked in the printing industry for around 10 years.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comicdey Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Hi, still trying out how to use everthing here, yeah I'm a rookie....I"ve worked in the printing industry for around 5 years.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comicdey Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Hi, still trying out how to use everthing here, yeah I'm a rookie....I"ve worked in the printing industry for around 1 year.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comicdey Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 From what I've seen....production quality issues like this don't really effect the grade below 9.6 to any great extent. Others will likely chime in... Welcome to the boards...I've been here for 5 years... Welcome to the boards....I've been here for 4 years Welcome to the boards...I've been here for 3 years... Welcome to the boards....I've been here for 2 years... Welcome to the boards I've been here for 1 year.... Welcome to the boards....I'm a newby.....and I feel great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodan57 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Can't see it mattering as to the grade and I am sure that to many collectors it is a small matter as each collector has their priorities or peccadillos. But, with all things being equal, one might prefer a copy with a cover that is perfectly registered as opposed to one that is offset -- and consequently might find a better registered copy to be of greater market value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
platium surfer-migration Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Hi,still trying to figure out how long I've worked in printing.Thanx for the feedback,I'm gonna slab it and see.Its the only ASM left from a collection of about 100 I had back in the 70's,oldest one was no# 10,sold them all to a wicked dealer for 60.00, man was I a stupid teenager ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hulk181man Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 What about books manufactured without either staple? Can anyone tell me if they've slabbed such a book and if CGC reduces grade or gives the Green label for it? I have a copy of Amazing Spider-man V2 # 12 devoid of staples. No holes punched thru the paper or spine; interior pages totally loose. The book looks to be easy 9.6-9.8 range with no stress etc. Would CGC downgrade it as a result of the missing staples? Since it's so unusual, I'd like to preserve it but wonder if it's worth the cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiceX Posted October 22, 2006 Author Share Posted October 22, 2006 I've never seen a book slabbed that was missing both staples. When it was manufactured with only one, it is noted on the label. I would doubt you'd be able to get a book without staples slabbed for the same reasons they dont slab loose 3d glasses, posters, and such. But I am not a CGC employee, so I have no idea what I'm talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FFB Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 I've never seen a book slabbed that was missing both staples. When it was manufactured with only one, it is noted on the label. I would doubt you'd be able to get a book without staples slabbed for the same reasons they dont slab loose 3d glasses, posters, and such. But I am not a CGC employee, so I have no idea what I'm talking about. I've seen one or two of them. My recollection is that the book gets a green label with a notation "MANUFACTURED WITHOUT STAPLES." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hulk181man Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I've seen one or two of them. My recollection is that the book gets a green label with a notation "MANUFACTURED WITHOUT STAPLES." I thought this might be the case. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmic-spider-man Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) This thread needs a bump and I noticed DiceX has been posting again and I found something new that I realy wanted to show him and to see if he can explain how it happened. I am thinking someone at the comic plant must have done this one intentionaly but I don't know. Edited February 5, 2008 by cosmic-spider-man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szelim Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 See this post in the Gold forum: http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=15&Number=2180937#Post2180937 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ze-man Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 This thread needs a bump and I noticed DiceX has been posting again and I found something new that I realy wanted to show him and to see if he can explain how it happened. I thinking someone at the comic plant must have done this one intentionaly. What a cool book. I imagine this was just one of a myriad of production related mishaps, most of which ended up in the garbage. Hopefully Dice(or somebody) can explain how a cover was actually fed and cut at such an angle,upside down no less! I imagine it could have been a double cover except it shifted during the stapling process. What sticks out to me is the portions of the outside cover that tanned exponentially compared to the paper resting next to the misfed cover. Very interesting, what a cool book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transplant Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 This is a good example of what contact with the interior pages can do to a cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiceX Posted February 12, 2008 Author Share Posted February 12, 2008 This thread needs a bump and I noticed DiceX has been posting again and I found something new that I realy wanted to show him and to see if he can explain how it happened. I am thinking someone at the comic plant must have done this one intentionaly but I don't know. I love how the color pops on the inside cover. This was a production error. It would be rare, but I suppose it would be possible. Note the yellowing on the inside of the outer cover. Just goes to show how acidic the pulp from the newsprint is. The cover is a much higher quality paper, so the areas that the inside cover touches it, prevents the outer cover from turning yellow as quickly as where it touches the newsprint paper. Very cool book, btw. I love stuff like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmic-spider-man Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 This was a production error. It would be rare, but I suppose it would be possible. Hey DiceX could you maybe explain the process of how the covers are loaded and then put onto the pages in production? I Just wonder if the covers are folded before or after they are added to the pages and what kind of mechanisum is involved in lifting the cover to the pages? You explained eariler that static cling was the probable cause of Double Cover comics and I can see how the inner cover on that ASM #7 might have slipped out of place before it was attached to the pages, but it don't explain how it got on backwards and I am guessing that the comic Cover and pages are stapled together first then folded "you have probably explained this before too I just can't remember". I also find stuff like this very interesting and love to hear how it could have happened. I just recentaly found another Double Cover ASM comic where the outter cover is not fully covering the inner one and it has a weird cut to it like it was trimed with the book slightely twisted or in a bind, is that possible? Thanks for your time. (thumbs u Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thin Man Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 gents, this is actually and easy one to explain BUT i can't really describe the mechanism very well in writing as to how the covers and the comics themsleves got "together" but i can try. the covers were and still are printed separately from each other.in the old days such as when this spidey was printed and even up to about 10 years ago the covers and the insides had to be manually feed into a machine separate from the actual press either in the press room or in the bindery. the insides were already folded and stacked into piles at one end and were "dropped" onto a "conveyor" of sorts that the insides sat on. this conveyor was triangular in shape with a point up and the insides were dropped onto it as it moved. so the books landed open..spine up . not flat but at a 30 to a 45 degree angle upside down. moving down the line (this machine was easily 10 feet long) the books passed under 2, 3 or 4 stations of covers that had been printed and folded..but not trimmed. the covers were synced to drop down on the insides as the book passed beneath. there were alignment mechanisms to keep everything basicially straight and the conveyour line of books then boks and covers moved at a nice pace...hard to describe, these covers and insides then passed under another set of stations which were the staplers. staples themselves were from a roll of wire or a "spool"and the stapling apparatus not only stapled the cover and inside together it also cut the wire and folded the wire making a "staple" as you see it. now beofroe i finish -all you guys out there who think comics are magic or think elves put these books together fo the express purpose of us collectiong them 30 years later have to come to the realization that our hobby is and was a business. it was cheap entertainment (not so anymore) designed to be thrown away just like the newspaper. there was no more regard for what was coming off the press than making wallpaper to toilet paper. it was a job that pressman and their assistants did. a job. they wanted to get it done and go home. please rememeber..this is very important. comics were cheap throw-away trash that gave people jobs. we care greatly for them but it was work to the people putting them together. if you refuse to believe that someone could throw a bunch of covers to amazing fantasy 15 on the press room floor and walk on them like it was nothing more than garbage...then stop reading because i guarantee you won't believe it. in 1961,1935 and 2008 that is EXACTLY what happens. to scrap paper. or dirty paper or any paper that they could not use to print more books with. they had no idea it was ever going to be worth anything. well until the 70s when world color press in sparta,illinois started having "leaks" of product to the collector community. anyway..........the comics are untrimmed and stapled and they are moving to the end of this horrible conveyour that mangles many of the comics. (you would cringe ). DON"T READ THIS PART IF YOU ARE SQUEAMISH..... the books drop onto a sorting table from a height of several inches to possible 2 feet in a sorting table seeks to contain the books in order...and attempts to keep them facing the same way. many don't and the "jogger" as he is called at that end now grabs them anyway he can to make sure they are going the same way (anyway he can) and grabs a stack.(depending on the size of his hands) and (he may bend them all) but he "jogs them". he does this to make sure they are in a neat tidy stack. take a bunch of crappy books at home grab 20 of them at the top and bottom and while holding them drop them on their sides (either one or both) to force them into a nice neat little stack. do it with the top and bottom also. see! what a nice tidy pile. now inspect the possible damage to the books!! and do fifty at a time!! in a hurry..you have to jog 60,000 an hour....get going!!! now try it with 40 or fifty using your stomach to help keep them orderly. now....take a stack - put them on a stacking cart but alternate the piles every whatever size you felt like that day so they wouldn't fall out of the cart. sometimes you are in a BIG hurry and you literally throw them in a cart. they fall on the floor....who cares! they are cheap pulp-nobody cares about the shape as long as it is readable!!!!! youpick them up and throw them back in. now you will have to roll the cart to the bindery yet to trim them on the cutter. hope you don't hit an bumps on your way there! now you gotta trim them all. tough job. now ..how is that for a start. if you could have seen this in action you would wonder how ANY books could come out 9.4. you would never believe any comic could ever be perfect. but there are- those books were in the middle of this grab and shake and drop piles. and when the books where bound in string every fifty (turned at twenty five to make the stack flat)-to go to the distributor..those perfect ones stayed in the middle. they never got that string dent you see sometimes. one note usually gold books they many times used wire to hold the books. ok so back to the spidey 9. keep in mind that the pressmen have to print 200,000 copies or more of each comic. they are printing stapling- folding -jogging THOUSANDS of books and at a frentic pace? why in a hurry? gotta get done to clean the press and set it up for the next book. time is money. so with all the hub bub many times nobody was paying attention to the "RUN". they were standing around talking,smoking (yes they smoked in the press room. yes, it was filled with chemicals and flammable vapors as well as paper and paper "dust". they would refill these stations with insides then refill the covers and keep working until they were done. they didn't really inspect their work...just wanted to get done so they could take a break. and they didn't see or even care about too many mistakes.hey! it's only worth a dime after all!!! the spidey 7 is simple. one cover on top of another. one came off the press crooked . nobody noticed because it was in a huge stack of raw covers and why would anyone even look for it. then when the covers were dropped onto the books on the conveyour the two covers stuck together and where stapled and later trimmed and sold to some kid somewhere. why did they stick? ink that wasn't dry. static electricity probably. or better yet someone deliberately out of 300,000 of the same issue and YOU found it. not likely. it was an accident. a very cool accident.that is all it is.nothing in the pressroom or the bindery was deliberate back then. anyway i happen collect cool stuff like that so let me know when you are getting rid of it. i have several boxes of comic "accidents". having nine stores and being in retail for 26 years i have accumilated a bunch of weird stuff that has gotten into my Diamond boxes. new or old i always kept it because i thought it was cool. i knew how it was done..no mystery there- but it was neat nontheless. one of my coolest books? a goldenage Blackhawk that was bound with the centerfold out. meaning the centerfold is now page one and page 52 with page the actual page one inside the book. how about a triple cover? or the wrong cover on a book? how about parts of the story repeating inside? or two copies of the same book inside ONE cover? please remember this is MASS produced product. there is no mystery and no comic gods making this stuff secretly in some cave somewhere. staples are wire, paper is pul made to disintegrate after many years. and colors fade. now how do i know any of this? i worked in printing for 5 years out of high school. i have to admitt...i was a "jogger! and i ran the big trimmer and i worked on the big presses/ and i bound stacks after trimming with string. and i accidentally dropped stuff on the floor and walked on them ! yes, i must be a horrible person and i even delivered stuff to the stores. OK. now you know how double covers,triple covers etc happen. this method is basicially used today altho more automated and less hands on. i am only talking about regular comics..not squarebound,not bookshelf format with heavy paper (ie dark knight or killing joke are bookshelf format books). so you wanna hear about the cutter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
