newstand fresh-migration Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Hi! I would welcome everyones opinion regarding the impact of a miswrapped cover on the grading of an otherwise high grade(9.4 to 9.6) book. How much overwrap on the spine is acceptable before it would affect the grade of the book, if the miswrap is uniform from top to bottom of the spine, and doesn't cause any misalignment of the cover? Thanks to all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ze-man Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Hi, well to be honest with you I think there are quite a few people who think a badly miswrapped book should not be allowed in 9.6(moreso in 9.8) type books. But I think CGC will just downgrade for the physical flaws present and not the quality of production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newstand fresh-migration Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Great! I figured it would be a bigger deal to the collecting community than to CGC. Still, if a miswrapped book grades high, but is not really considered a true high grade book by many, it would probably be less desirable, and bring less of a price, if it were to be sold, right?. Any other thoughts out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divad Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Great! I figured it would be a bigger deal to the collecting community than to CGC. Still, if a miswrapped book grades high, but is not really considered a true high grade book by many, it would probably be less desirable, and bring less of a price, if it were to be sold, right?. Any other thoughts out there? That is generally correct, price goes down when demand lessens. However, when selling a comic, you only need ONE buyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boba Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Didn't know what topic would be the best place to ask this question, but since I see a lot of resident experts on this string, here goes - why is this Planet #66 bigger than the rest - both before and after? I bought it at the Big Apple Con off a reputable dealer, so I don't suspect trimming. Did they decide first to enlarge the format and then returned to the smaller size? Anyone? This is #66 - notice it's wider then the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiceX Posted December 19, 2008 Author Share Posted December 19, 2008 Probably just a format change for one issue. Possibly to get rid of a particular size of paper they managed to get a deal on. You might want to ask in the Golden Age forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJD Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I don't know why that particular issue is larger, but I've seen a similar thing in another title. The Australian run of Walt Disney's Comics and Stories had about five issues in 1950 that were significantly larger than the earlier or later ones. As a result, they are harder to find in middle to higher grades, because they tended to stick out of piles and get beaten up more. I'd expect that to be true of the outsize Planet Comics as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolxmoney Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 This isn't really a flaw, but I'm curious about coloring that spills over into the black area of a frame. I've always assumed it was the colorist brushing into the black to save time, since such a thing would go pretty much unnoticed. After reading this thread however, I wonder if it is the color plate being overcut, both to save time and reduce difficulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiceX Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 That's called a "trap". Where colors overlap because if they did not, there would be white areas between the color and the black. The press can not hold perfect registration, therefore the colors are overlapped a little to keep a registration variance from *looking* like there is a registration variance. In areas as you're describing, those were done that way because it saved time, and because it was assumed the black would cover it up. If the black strike was weak, you'd see the sloppiness underneath. The stronger the density of the black, the less obvious it would be. The problem was at the separator/prepress house. The "colorist" didn't actually do anything that directly resulted in the end product. They took a black and white xerox and colored it with dyes. That told the separator/prepress house what colors to put on the plates behind the black and white artwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolxmoney Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 (edited) Thanks, Dice. Edited February 12, 2009 by foolxmoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuffSaid57 Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Hi; I got another little manafacturing error that I have been wandering about for a while. I have two comics a Defenders 50 and a Marvel Tales 82 and I did have a Peter Parker 7 that all have two sets of staples in other words two at the top and two at the bottom what I found strange about this is that one set of staples is inside the cover and the other set holds the cover on and all three of these comics are like that. It is like the comic was stapled together without the cover and then they sent it back through and stapled a cover over it did this ever happen Cosmic, I asked DiceX the same question a few months ago. Here is his reply: I received the book today. It looks to me like it was a "hand bound reject". I'll try to explain it... A publisher requires a certain number of books to be produced. During the bindery run, they have enough raw product to produce the run + a percentage predicted by the bindery allowed for waste. Say the run is 100,000 books and the bindery expects 3% waste...They receive 103,000 books worth of raw product. During the run there are books that jam up in the binder, or have odd flaws (untrimmed, unstapled, no cover, etc.). Those books are stacked to the side until the end of the run. When the raw product has been depleated, if the count doesn't add up to what the publisher ordered, they have to find a way to fill the order. They go through the "reject" skid to find any books that can be salvaged. There is usually nothing wrong with them, they just have been produced incorrectly. They take those books and piece together what they can. These books are bound by hand, stitched (stapled) by hand, then hand trimmed on a flatbed cutter. Whatever they have to do on a book by book basis. After "pulling rejects", if the order still has not been filled, they have to go back to press to run enough raw pieces to finish it off. The book you sent looks like it was produced without a cover. The body of the book had already been stapled, so a fresh cover was placed on the book and stitched onto the body. (The second set of staples) The staples are done by hand, so that would explain why they were off centered. There are no other staple holes in the cover, so it was definately a raw cover that was placed on the book. Afterwards it was hand trimmed on a flatbed. No doubt in my mind that the book left the factory this way. I don't know if this book would have passed through CGC without a purple label, because I don't know if they would have been able to tell it was a factory error. The following two WDCS comics, which I likely purchased at the same time in 1973 and likely were from the same production stack, unlike the one above both have four staples through the cover. Copy 1 Copy 2 In this case my guesstimate is that the Mark Jeweler inserts were added after the end of the intial run as the one copy that still has an insert (I usually pulled them) only has two staples through the insert. Both copies also have similar production creases running near the 50 Happy Years that are hard to see in the scans. I am curious how common something like this is and if anyone else has any other explanations or thoughts. I would have a hard time believing that the manufacturer would go to this kind of manual work for more than a few books to save having to make another run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiceX Posted April 18, 2009 Author Share Posted April 18, 2009 Looking at the books in your post, I would guess the insert was added after the fact only because there was a problem in production. Such as there was a mix up, where they ran off all the books without the insert before they remembered that they were supposed to do some with it. This would be quite possible, and I'd bet it happened more than a few times. I don't think it was normal to put in the insert like this. It should be put in with the same two stitches that hold the book together. Your books were definitely hand-jobs. Also, the near identical cover wrap, color strike, and production wrinkle, lead me to believe these two books were produced very close together. Perhaps even consecutive issues. Very cool to have in your collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divad Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 As always, thanks for the insight Steve. I note that a different staple supply was used too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiceX Posted April 22, 2009 Author Share Posted April 22, 2009 Yeah. The wire comes in different colors. Silver, Gold, Bronze, hell I've even seen blue and yellow. It's not uncommon for different colored wire to be on different machines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARVEL MANIAC-migration Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 when i first began collecting back in the mid-70's, i actually spotted a charlton book on the newsstand with staples on the RIGHT side of the book--making it un-openable!!! the funniest comic production flaw of all time perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excalib12-migration Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Are you guys saying those print holes and the wrap line would not count against you at CGC? Damn, I dumped a perfect ASM 62 with that funny wrap line on it... I know of a ASM 69 that is perfect with a wrap line on it, I should buy it...its perfect and would grade 9.6 if the wrap line is not considered a defect by CGC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiceX Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 The holes definitely count against the grade if they are on the cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excalib12-migration Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 But what about those print wrap lines, would cgc count off for where there is a line on the comic from the folded paper before printing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiceX Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 Would you mind posting a picture of what you're talking about? I'm not following you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greggy Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 He's talking about a miswrap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
