A Simple Discussion on Walking Dead Original Art Prices 0

[Eric Seffinga]

I like that the title of the thread starts "A simple discussion" and has turned into competing thesis on the marketing and investing strategies of WD art, (tho I suspect for the players, these strategies extend beyond the borders of WD into general practice.)

 

It fascinates me though, the different levels that people collect art on. I think it would be interesting to run some kind of poll on as many comic art collectors as possible, and have them rate on a scale of 1-10 the level that various factors play in their importance regarding their collecting habits.

 

 

[Hekla]

Wouldn't 'Availability of Funding' rate a 10 for most of us?

Edited October 22, 2013 by Hekla

[Phill the Governor]

The prices of those #19 pages seemed right on to me. I was initially surprised at the price, but after thinking about it, it makes sense to me.

 

To compare, the first appearance Gov. page sold on ebay 6? months ago for a little over 4K. 8K for a character who's more popular and has greater longevity makes sense to me.

 

Still a lot of $ for Adlard interiors though. I would imagine these pretty much set the ceiling since they're on 11x17 and hit all the main points. I think it would be unreasonable for people to think that these sales affect 100%, or even the majority, of WD pages as a whole.

 

In the end though, I'm sure there was a happy seller and a happy buyer, and that's all that matters. As a huge fan of this series, it was cool to just get to see scans of those pages!

 

And for the record, the title thread is a bit funny given the flow of conversation since it started. I really just wanted to gain some knowledge about the comic art market since I was new to it. I think this has (overall) been a very informative thread thanks to the people who give thoughts and constructive arguments about the subject.

[comicsnyc22]

This is one of my favorite threads on the boards, but the title of "A Simple Discussion" is a bit misleading.

[JS]

I've had some time to think and I'd like to add some random thoughts about the OA market, the comic, the franchise, and my intentions in general (not that they matter to anyone but me, but I like to share my thoughts).

 

Folks can go back and forth over why prices are what they are, what players motivations and of forces contribute to causing increases or decreases in prices but lots of times reasons are much more obvious than we might care to admit.

 

For example - there was a page that sold on Ebay a few days ago for $480. I think thats actually a pretty fair price. Certainly last year that would have been a strong sale. Two years ago and it would have been high. Three plus years and it would have raised eyebrows over how high it was.

 

The auction ended at a really odd time..4pm on a Monday. I bet that the page would have went for at least $250 more had it ended on a Sunday evening. Probably closer to double in price - like this page which went for $1300. Objectively, I actually like the page that went for $480 better. I think its drawn better and I think it has more action. Why did one go higher and the other lower? Well, I think that the $1300 page ending at 6pm on a Sunday had a huge affect on its price. That many more people ready, willing, and able to bid. I really believe its as simple as that.

 

I won't pretend to know what lies ahead for WD prices but I can say this - I don't like the new style of the artwork. I hate the new style of comic-art-board they are using. I hate that its being drawn up like prelims for ads. I hate that its not on Image board anymore. I think Charlie's pencils are really tight which is a positive. I like the new guys artwork, but I hate its execution. Seeing the original art in person solidified my thought as its drawn out in an odd way. Again, almost like a story-board.

 

That however is great news for a lot of us collectors with Charlie's pages. His ink-run is done - limited in set - no more guessing as to how many more pages there can be, or how many more zombie pages there might be. Someone ought to count how many zombie pages there are that Charlie inked, splashes? First appearances of characters? Deaths of characters? You get my point..

 

One question that I have been struggling with lately is where the prices will balance out to - I think my exit-point on pages I bought as a speculation will be when I get the feeling the franchise is getting desperate. The cable-figures are great - the show is as popular as ever - the book is strong - and there is a ton of interest in the OA. I have a few test pages up on Ebay and I am happy with the amount of views I am getting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Garf]

I won't pretend to know what lies ahead for WD prices but I can say this - I don't like the new style of the artwork. I hate the new style of comic-art-board they are using. I hate that its being drawn up like prelims for ads. I hate that its not on Image board anymore. I think Charlie's pencils are really tight which is a positive. I like the new guys artwork, but I hate its execution. Seeing the original art in person solidified my thought as its drawn out in an odd way. Again, almost like a story-board.

 

I prefer the previous production as well. Even though it is in 17 x 11 now I would take the small art with Adlard's pencils and inks over it.

 

That however is great news for a lot of us collectors with Charlie's pages. His ink-run is done - limited in set - no more guessing as to how many more pages there can be, or how many more zombie pages there might be.

 

Here are a couple of things Charlie said to me last month (some relevant to your statement)... make of them what you will.

 

- The change to 8 1/2" x 14" was a tool to save time meaning there was less area to try and fill.

- The return to 17 x 11 is not set in stone, primarily a tool to make things easier for Stefano as an inker.

- Charlie said that as he is not superhuman Stefano was brought on board to help during the transition to a bi-weekly format for AoW. He doesn't know how things will continue yet but he did say he likes the idea of having more time to look at additional projects. This is regarding both the 17 x 11 format and the inking.

- He has actually signed up to do something else alongside with a European publisher in the future but the date isn't fixed yet.

- He said he loves inking. It's his favourite part of the process (have also read this in interviews).

 

All I take away from this is that the art production / direction has changed before a few times and it will probably change again at some point. None of that is insider information, just idle chat at a con during event Q&A, signing opportunity and a few open sketching opportunities. Even so I wouldn't be so sure you can make that statement without having to eat your words at some point.

 

Someone ought to count how many zombie pages there are that Charlie inked, splashes? First appearances of characters? Deaths of characters? You get my point..

 

Have considered this before. Maybe I'll be your Alfred

 

edit: BTW there is a ridiculous amount of information about the characters here with full bios

 

 

http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Comic_Series_Characters

 

 

One question that I have been struggling with lately is where the prices will balance out to - I think my exit-point on pages I bought as a speculation will be when I get the feeling the franchise is getting desperate. The cable-figures are great - the show is as popular as ever - the book is strong - and there is a ton of interest in the OA. I have a few test pages up on Ebay and I am happy with the amount of views I am getting.

 

I think Gene raised an excellent point either in this thread or was it the speculation thread that was also regarding Peter Panzerfaust? TWD has legs. Kirkman said he would continue it possibly up to 300. There will be plenty of pages to go around by then if it happens. Even zombie pages.

 

The early large art, and #7 - #48 pages in general are more likely to endure regardless of what happens with the small screen or over time with the comic. It's the first telling of the story. Parallels to it can be drawn from all other arcs. IMHO that is something which won't change.

 

 

 

The primary market is helping the secondary market along, the franchise is doing well, the art production is different to the pages you have, con season is pretty much finished, summer is finished, it's not Christmas yet, flipping raw modern comics isn't quite dead yet. Do you need to wait it out?

 

My tiny mind just thinks that the TV show isn't likely to pull in many more buyers from here on in, most of the people returning to comics (who are more likely to be aware of the art) because of TWD have already done so. The increasing saturation of modern comic flipping will soon be cutting the balls off a lot of buyers who are self funding. Forums can also be very good at making people confident about how deep the interst is seeing as they are usually full of fans and speculators... but then you already knew that. I don't have any more "facts" than they do about where the peak of things lies.

 

Having said all of that, I will back track and say there is likely to always be a strong interest in this title (especially if prices dip).

Edited November 7, 2013 by Garf

[comicsnyc22]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around why this ended so high. Absolutely makes zero sense to me, unless someone just got nostalgic over a certain page. Tyrese is my favorite character, but a simple stage shot at the prison, no zombies, not even her sword-- finishes at $1,300? I just don't get it.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Walking-Dead-21-page-17-Charlie-Adlard-Tyreese-Michonne-Prison-/171154396560?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27d998d590

[delekkerste]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around why this ended so high. Absolutely makes zero sense to me, unless someone just got nostalgic over a certain page. Tyrese is my favorite character, but a simple stage shot at the prison, no zombies, not even her sword-- finishes at $1,300? I just don't get it.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Walking-Dead-21-page-17-Charlie-Adlard-Tyreese-Michonne-Prison-/171154396560?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27d998d590

 

Well, it's an early Michonne page, and we just saw the #19 cover and a couple of #19 pages sell for big bucks, so this page from just two issues later is probably riding the coattails a bit. Plus, Tyreese just had his breakthrough episode on the TV show and looks to play a big role this season, so maybe the timing was just right.

 

Also, while $1,300 may look expensive relative to historical TWD comps, in the grand scheme of things, there's not a lot of other art I collect that is priced that inexpensively (some, but not a lot). For some collectors, they might not hesitate to pay a couple/few hundred bucks over what longtime TWD OA collectors might deem reasonable, because that's basically a rounding error for a lot of people in this hobby (and, no, I did not buy the page, though I did think about it).

[Nexus]

Here are a couple of things Charlie said to me last month (some relevant to your statement)... make of them what you will.

 

- The change to 8 1/2" x 14" was a tool to save time meaning there was less area to try and fill.

 

A compromise to maintain the publishing schedule. The more common compromise these days is to go digital. So for OA buyers who whine about the small art, remember the alternative could be worse.

 

Having said all of that, I will back track and say there is likely to always be a strong interest in this title (especially if prices dip).

 

I agree that there will likely be strong interest in this title for the foreseeable future. I disagree, however, that dipping prices will help. When speculators get skittish, they dump, and they don't buy back in. That downward momentum is tough to reverse. I have a friend who asks himself this question before every purchase: "Will I still be happy with this art if its value is cut by half?" He's the type who will keep his art, even if values fall. I suspect the majority of collectors, though, will jump ship.

[Nexus]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around why this ended so high. Absolutely makes zero sense to me, unless someone just got nostalgic over a certain page. Tyrese is my favorite character, but a simple stage shot at the prison, no zombies, not even her sword-- finishes at $1,300? I just don't get it.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Walking-Dead-21-page-17-Charlie-Adlard-Tyreese-Michonne-Prison-/171154396560?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27d998d590

 

Well, it's an early Michonne page, and we just saw the #19 cover and a couple of #19 pages sell for big bucks, so this page from just two issues later is probably riding the coattails a bit. Plus, Tyreese just had his breakthrough episode on the TV show and looks to play a big role this season, so maybe the timing was just right.

 

Also, while $1,300 may look expensive relative to historical TWD comps, in the grand scheme of things, there's not a lot of other art I collect that is priced that inexpensively (some, but not a lot). For some collectors, they might not hesitate to pay a couple/few hundred bucks over what longtime TWD OA collectors might deem reasonable, because that's basically a rounding error for a lot of people in this hobby (and, no, I did not buy the page, though I did think about it).

 

First off, congrats to the seller as well as the buyer. Good price for the seller and this is something the buyer clearly was eager to add to his collection. As you note, an early page with Michonne and Tyrese.

 

My own thought, though, is that while $1300 may be "inexpensive" relative to other OA, it is not inexpensive relative to WD OA. It's basically 1/6 the price of the #19 first Michonne appearance pages that sold a couple of weeks earlier. Those prices ($8K+) caught people by surprise. But I'd rather have one of those pages than 6-7 of these pages. To me, side-by-side, I view the #19 pages as either undervalued, or this $1300 page as overvalued. I realize there's a big difference between $1300 and $8000, but for those collectors to whom a few hundred dollars is a rounding error, it's probably not as big of a deal.

[comicsnyc22]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around why this ended so high. Absolutely makes zero sense to me, unless someone just got nostalgic over a certain page. Tyrese is my favorite character, but a simple stage shot at the prison, no zombies, not even her sword-- finishes at $1,300? I just don't get it.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Walking-Dead-21-page-17-Charlie-Adlard-Tyreese-Michonne-Prison-/171154396560?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27d998d590

 

Well, it's an early Michonne page, and we just saw the #19 cover and a couple of #19 pages sell for big bucks, so this page from just two issues later is probably riding the coattails a bit. Plus, Tyreese just had his breakthrough episode on the TV show and looks to play a big role this season, so maybe the timing was just right.

 

Also, while $1,300 may look expensive relative to historical TWD comps, in the grand scheme of things, there's not a lot of other art I collect that is priced that inexpensively (some, but not a lot). For some collectors, they might not hesitate to pay a couple/few hundred bucks over what longtime TWD OA collectors might deem reasonable, because that's basically a rounding error for a lot of people in this hobby (and, no, I did not buy the page, though I did think about it).

 

First off, congrats to the seller as well as the buyer. Good price for the seller and this is something the buyer clearly was eager to add to his collection. As you note, an early page with Michonne and Tyrese.

 

My own thought, though, is that while $1300 may be "inexpensive" relative to other OA, it is not inexpensive relative to WD OA. It's basically 1/6 the price of the #19 first Michonne appearance pages that sold a couple of weeks earlier. Those prices ($8K+) caught people by surprise. But I'd rather have one of those pages than 6-7 of these pages. To me, side-by-side, I view the #19 pages as either undervalued, or this $1300 page as overvalued. I realize there's a big difference between $1300 and $8000, but for those collectors to whom a few hundred dollars is a rounding error, it's probably not as big of a deal.

 

I'd consider myself a solid collector for WD art, but yeah, I just don't see it. Happy to overpay on even non-splashes, non-zombie pages, etc. I put in a bid late in the game, but realized it was going more than 1K and backed off. Perhaps it actually is the Gene affect post the WD #19 movement from this month.

[Claudio]

 

For example - there was a page that sold on Ebay a few days ago for $480. I think thats actually a pretty fair price. Certainly last year that would have been a strong sale. Two years ago and it would have been high. Three plus years and it would have raised eyebrows over how high it was.

 

The auction ended at a really odd time..4pm on a Monday. I bet that the page would have went for at least $250 more had it ended on a Sunday evening. Probably closer to double in price - like this page which went for $1300. Objectively, I actually like the page that went for $480 better. I think its drawn better and I think it has more action. Why did one go higher and the other lower? Well, I think that the $1300 page ending at 6pm on a Sunday had a huge affect on its price. That many more people ready, willing, and able to bid. I really believe its as simple as that.

 

I doubt that the ending time had anything to do with it. That page was over 500 bucks 3 days into the auction and over 1k a day before it ended. I think it went up $25 or $50 in the closing moments.

 

Personally, I loved this page. I don't think any other TWD page I sold "stung" quite as much as this one. Very Early Michonne page along with a great pose by Tyreese. That page had a complete mini plot in it. Tyreese starts out tough and confident but is quickly brought down a notch by Michonne's advances. I thought it was brilliantly crafted.

 

The 480 dollar page was pretty cool because it had a zombie in it but it featured Martinez and that nurse. It had a small Michonne panel but I think there are a lot of similar pages out there.

 

[Claudio]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around why this ended so high. Absolutely makes zero sense to me, unless someone just got nostalgic over a certain page. Tyrese is my favorite character, but a simple stage shot at the prison, no zombies, not even her sword-- finishes at $1,300? I just don't get it.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Walking-Dead-21-page-17-Charlie-Adlard-Tyreese-Michonne-Prison-/171154396560?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27d998d590

 

I often don't try to rationalize prices anymore. If you really want something, you have to be prepared to be irrational. Just make sure it is something you really want. I have done that several times in this hobby and I haven't regretted it yet (even if I am still upside down on some of the purchases). Just make sure it is something you really want. Better to overpay than have it go into a black hole collection.

[lb jefferies]

If you really want something, you have to be prepared to be irrational.

 

Sadly, I'm in complete agreement

[delekkerste]

If you really want something, you have to be prepared to be irrational.

 

Sadly, I'm in complete agreement

 

Much as we've reached the point in U.S. history where future generations are no longer guaranteed to do better than previous generations, I suspect we are at the point in OA collecting history where you're no longer guaranteed a return on your spending even if you buy quality art and hold onto it. In many cases, it is indeed a case of "if you really want something, you have to be prepared to pay an irrational price for it".

 

But, that's OK as long as you get enough enjoyment from owning/displaying the art to offset any loss of purchasing power (and/or opportunity cost) you may incur upon the art's eventual sale/disposition. I suspect that the better TWD art is still cheap enough and the franchise embedded/beloved enough to have legs, but, even if it all goes to pot, I'll still enjoy owning the examples I have regardless.

[Garf]

 

For example - there was a page that sold on Ebay a few days ago for $480. I think thats actually a pretty fair price. Certainly last year that would have been a strong sale. Two years ago and it would have been high. Three plus years and it would have raised eyebrows over how high it was.

 

The auction ended at a really odd time..4pm on a Monday. I bet that the page would have went for at least $250 more had it ended on a Sunday evening. Probably closer to double in price - like this page which went for $1300. Objectively, I actually like the page that went for $480 better. I think its drawn better and I think it has more action. Why did one go higher and the other lower? Well, I think that the $1300 page ending at 6pm on a Sunday had a huge affect on its price. That many more people ready, willing, and able to bid. I really believe its as simple as that.

 

I doubt that the ending time had anything to do with it. That page was over 500 bucks 3 days into the auction and over 1k a day before it ended. I think it went up $25 or $50 in the closing moments.

 

Personally, I loved this page. I don't think any other TWD page I sold "stung" quite as much as this one. Very Early Michonne page along with a great pose by Tyreese. That page had a complete mini plot in it. Tyreese starts out tough and confident but is quickly brought down a notch by Michonne's advances. I thought it was brilliantly crafted.

 

The 480 dollar page was pretty cool because it had a zombie in it but it featured Martinez and that nurse. It had a small Michonne panel but I think there are a lot of similar pages out there.

 

 

One of the other reasons I liked the Michonne / Tyreese page was that it is what I would call "display friendly". Just a personal thing where I wouldn't want someone getting decapitated or eaten alive on my wall in a family environment.

[JS]

 

"display friendly". Just a personal thing where I wouldn't want someone getting decapitated or eaten alive on my wall in a family environment.

 

You just described my kitchen:

 

[delekkerste]

One of the other reasons I liked the Michonne / Tyreese page was that it is what I would call "display friendly". Just a personal thing where I wouldn't want someone getting decapitated or eaten alive on my wall in a family environment.

 

Too true - there are many key pages from the series that I wouldn't want in my collection, let alone that I would want to display. Most of the principal characters that die do so in a most sickening fashion; these are all pages I can do without.

[Claudio]

One of the other reasons I liked the Michonne / Tyreese page was that it is what I would call "display friendly". Just a personal thing where I wouldn't want someone getting decapitated or eaten alive on my wall in a family environment.

 

Too true - there are many key pages from the series that I wouldn't want in my collection, let alone that I would want to display. Most of the principal characters that die do so in a most sickening fashion; these are all pages I can do without.

Dang, I have a couple of them on display at the home office. To me, it is what makes TWD. Used to have more of those kinds of pages but had to let some go. I just didn't need all that death and destruction in my life.

[comicsnyc22]

 

"display friendly". Just a personal thing where I wouldn't want someone getting decapitated or eaten alive on my wall in a family environment.

 

You just described my kitchen:

 

 

Hahahaha