current turn around rates at CGC 79 79

[VintageComics]

They have raw materials, takt times, slabbing equipment, quality control processes (Im assuming)... sounds like they manufacture something to me.

 

The raw materials being books, barex and slabs. Do they manufacture the barex and slab shells? I think our opinions on manufacturing differ.

 

And they obviously don't have takt times.

 

Take away the word manufacturing, because that seems to be confusing the issue.

 

They are still providing a service that is more complex than just sales or service separately.

 

I think that was his point.

 

 

[revat]

I would be happy to use someone else who offers a service comparable to the CGC, and since we all know that it isn't PGX, perhaps you might offer a recommendation.

 

I have already found an alternative to the Registry, so I'm basically sitting on G and waiting for O.

 

So you want the same (or better) quality, at the same price with a faster turn around time?

Or are you willing to pay more for faster and better?

 

Just wondering what your acceptable metric is...

My acceptable metric would be a grading service that runs their business like Richard Evans runs Bedrock City Comics, like Joe Grisolia runs CFP Comics, like Andrew Cretella runs GACollectibles, and like Dale Roberts runs Dale Roberts Comics. A business where everyone is treated professionally and with the same level of respect and courtesy. A business where if you have a problem they are working to an end where both the business and the customer are equally satisfied instead of admonished like a child in school or taunted with phrases such as, "Well, yeah, prove it." That would be my acceptable metric.

 

There's a difference between being a good retailer (which your examples may be and do what they do very well) and being a good MANUFACTURER.

 

CGC is a manufacturer of product (the product being a combination of grading, restoration check and slabbing). It is a far more complex process to manufacture than to retail (not saying its easy, just different and not necessarily as complex).

 

I agree that customers should be treated with respect and courtesy, and I haven't had any experiences with CGC to the contrary. And I dont recall seeing CGC on the boards telling people to "prove it" (not sure what "it" is, do you have some specific beef?)

 

CGC don't manufacture anything. They offer an opinion and guard against it being tampered with.

 

maybe, maybe not. Who makes the cases? Do they buy them? Are they made in house? And if even the cases are bought, they are 'sort of' like a manufacturer.

 

A comic book comes down the 'line', and a person (or two or more) carefully inspects the book for quality. They track the quality, then proceed to customize a case for the book, then encapsulate the book. Then on to the next book. Sounds a lot like the back end of a line at a manufacturing plant. Then they are processed for shipping. Not exactly the same as a manufacterer, but not too for off from a certain point of view.

 

They need to hire an efficiency expert, who will tell them that they need to specialize. Any one who is trained in grading should be JUST GRADING, all day every day. You can hire other staff relatively easily for EVERY other function from receiving to shipping, to accounting, to collecting comics at shows and witnessing sigs at shows, to customer service to answer emails, to running the website, to answering phones, to management, to admin, to marketing, to safety, to HR. When a company grows (and this one has grown and is growing), you HAVE to start specializing.

 

This should be simple, although painful, but management needs to take the longer view and push it if they really want to be successful.

 

So please CGC, consider hiring a consultant if you can't get these things done on your own (which I know isn't easy). If its a matter of facilities and space, start different shifts. People can be receiving and shipping all night long, managing web orders and the web site, answering emails too.

 

 

[Boozad]

They have raw materials, takt times, slabbing equipment, quality control processes (Im assuming)... sounds like they manufacture something to me.

 

The raw materials being books, barex and slabs. Do they manufacture the barex and slab shells? I think our opinions on manufacturing differ.

 

And they obviously don't have takt times.

 

Take away the word manufacturing, because that seems to be confusing the issue.

 

They are still providing a service that is more complex than just sales or service separately.

 

 

So do, say, CFP Comics and Classics Inc, one of those were endorsed in the post that endorsed the retailers. The original comparison wasn't with what they do within their business but how they go about it.

[miraclemet]

To all our customers:

 

All of us at CGC take pride in what we do. In order to accurately grade books they must each be given a certain amount of time and attention. We can’t shorten the grading process in order to move things along more quickly. We understand your frustration regarding grading turn around times and are doing everything in our power to reduce the time between submitting and receiving your graded and encapsulated books. Although being overwhelmed with submissions is a great issue that we don’t want to complain about, it is still an issue none the less. We’d like you to know that we are working 10 hour days and have been working six days a week in an attempt to alleviate the issues with turn around times. We are also looking to hire additional Graders. If you’d like more information or are interested in applying, please check the Careers page of our website for all the details.

 

Please be patient and keep in mind that we are doing our best to get your books back to you properly graded and encapsulated in order to maintain the integrity of what we do and the hobby we do it for.

 

Shill.

 

You sir owe me a new monitor, or at least come clean the coffee of the one I spit all over.

 

 

[Junkdrawer]

In any successful business, and CGC is a successful business, a company can only offer 3 things. A quality product/service, quick turnaround, and a low price. No company can actually remain in business by offering all 3, but 2 of the 3 criteria is what you should expect from a top notch company.

Really? There are NO companies in business offering all 3? Not sure I agree with you there.

 

McDonalds.

 

Play.com

The Book Depository

 

There are two without putting too much thought into it. They hit all three factors on a consistent basis.

Play.com's main product since day one has been the sale of DVDs, dodging tax loop holes and bilking the UK treasury out of over 100m pounds/yr. DVD sales are dwindling and the company has been sold. The outlook isn't bright in those regards. I can't imagine you buy clothing from this Japanese based co., I think I rather run to Target for underwear than having it ship from play.com

[VintageComics]

They have raw materials, takt times, slabbing equipment, quality control processes (Im assuming)... sounds like they manufacture something to me.

 

The raw materials being books, barex and slabs. Do they manufacture the barex and slab shells? I think our opinions on manufacturing differ.

 

And they obviously don't have takt times.

 

Take away the word manufacturing, because that seems to be confusing the issue.

 

They are still providing a service that is more complex than just sales or service separately.

 

 

So do, say, CFP Comics and Classics Inc, one of those were endorsed in the post that endorsed the retailers. The original comparison wasn't with what they do within their business but how they go about it.

 

Sorry, I thought the comparison was a discussion about the complexity of relative businesses.

 

 

[Boozad]

In any successful business, and CGC is a successful business, a company can only offer 3 things. A quality product/service, quick turnaround, and a low price. No company can actually remain in business by offering all 3, but 2 of the 3 criteria is what you should expect from a top notch company.

Really? There are NO companies in business offering all 3? Not sure I agree with you there.

 

McDonalds.

 

Play.com

The Book Depository

 

There are two without putting too much thought into it. They hit all three factors on a consistent basis.

Play.com's main product since day one has been the sale of DVDs, dodging tax loop holes and bilking the UK treasury out of over 100m pounds/yr. DVD sales are dwindling and the company has been sold. The outlook isn't bright in those regards. I can't imagine you buy clothing from this Japanese based co., I think I rather run to Target for underwear than having it ship from play.com

 

They offer a quality product, they're cheaper than a large percentage of other retailers and they have a good turnaround time. Those were the parameters, they meet them. Anything outside of that is of no relevance to this particular conversation.

[NewWorldOrder]

My 49 book 9.6 pre-screen graded and finalized (6-20-2012 submission)

 

A couple 9.9's makes the wait worth it.

[Boozad]

They have raw materials, takt times, slabbing equipment, quality control processes (Im assuming)... sounds like they manufacture something to me.

 

The raw materials being books, barex and slabs. Do they manufacture the barex and slab shells? I think our opinions on manufacturing differ.

 

And they obviously don't have takt times.

 

Take away the word manufacturing, because that seems to be confusing the issue.

 

They are still providing a service that is more complex than just sales or service separately.

 

 

So do, say, CFP Comics and Classics Inc, one of those were endorsed in the post that endorsed the retailers. The original comparison wasn't with what they do within their business but how they go about it.

 

Sorry, I thought the comparison was a discussion about the complexity of relative businesses.

 

 

Customer service was the way I read it.

 

My acceptable metric would be a grading service that runs their business like Richard Evans runs Bedrock City Comics, like Joe Grisolia runs CFP Comics, like Andrew Cretella runs GACollectibles, and like Dale Roberts runs Dale Roberts Comics. A business where everyone is treated professionally and with the same level of respect and courtesy. A business where if you have a problem they are working to an end where both the business and the customer are equally satisfied instead of admonished like a child in school or taunted with phrases such as, "Well, yeah, prove it." That would be my acceptable metric.

[Junkdrawer]

In any successful business, and CGC is a successful business, a company can only offer 3 things. A quality product/service, quick turnaround, and a low price. No company can actually remain in business by offering all 3, but 2 of the 3 criteria is what you should expect from a top notch company.

Really? There are NO companies in business offering all 3? Not sure I agree with you there.

 

McDonalds.

 

Play.com

The Book Depository

 

There are two without putting too much thought into it. They hit all three factors on a consistent basis.

Play.com's main product since day one has been the sale of DVDs, dodging tax loop holes and bilking the UK treasury out of over 100m pounds/yr. DVD sales are dwindling and the company has been sold. The outlook isn't bright in those regards. I can't imagine you buy clothing from this Japanese based co., I think I rather run to Target for underwear than having it ship from play.com

 

They are a retailer of merchandise they don't Mfg., I'm confident I can buy anything they have listed for sale for less on ebay

 

They offer a quality product, they're cheaper than a large percentage of other retailers and they have a good turnaround time. Those were the parameters, they meet them. Anything outside of that is of no relevance to this particular conversation.

Edited November 6, 2012 by Junkdrawer

[Boozad]

In any successful business, and CGC is a successful business, a company can only offer 3 things. A quality product/service, quick turnaround, and a low price. No company can actually remain in business by offering all 3, but 2 of the 3 criteria is what you should expect from a top notch company.

Really? There are NO companies in business offering all 3? Not sure I agree with you there.

 

McDonalds.

 

Play.com

The Book Depository

 

There are two without putting too much thought into it. They hit all three factors on a consistent basis.

Play.com's main product since day one has been the sale of DVDs, dodging tax loop holes and bilking the UK treasury out of over 100m pounds/yr. DVD sales are dwindling and the company has been sold. The outlook isn't bright in those regards. I can't imagine you buy clothing from this Japanese based co., I think I rather run to Target for underwear than having it ship from play.com

 

They offer a quality product, they're cheaper than a large percentage of other retailers and they have a good turnaround time. Those were the parameters, they meet them. Anything outside of that is of no relevance to this particular conversation.

 

They're still in business. They've just been bought out by Rakuten.

 

That's like saying Goodrich failed to remain in business because they were bought out by UTC.

[VintageComics]

They have raw materials, takt times, slabbing equipment, quality control processes (Im assuming)... sounds like they manufacture something to me.

 

The raw materials being books, barex and slabs. Do they manufacture the barex and slab shells? I think our opinions on manufacturing differ.

 

And they obviously don't have takt times.

 

Take away the word manufacturing, because that seems to be confusing the issue.

 

They are still providing a service that is more complex than just sales or service separately.

 

 

So do, say, CFP Comics and Classics Inc, one of those were endorsed in the post that endorsed the retailers. The original comparison wasn't with what they do within their business but how they go about it.

 

Sorry, I thought the comparison was a discussion about the complexity of relative businesses.

 

 

Customer service was the way I read it.

 

My acceptable metric would be a grading service that runs their business like Richard Evans runs Bedrock City Comics, like Joe Grisolia runs CFP Comics, like Andrew Cretella runs GACollectibles, and like Dale Roberts runs Dale Roberts Comics. A business where everyone is treated professionally and with the same level of respect and courtesy. A business where if you have a problem they are working to an end where both the business and the customer are equally satisfied instead of admonished like a child in school or taunted with phrases such as, "Well, yeah, prove it." That would be my acceptable metric.

 

Sure, that was Watson's post but his post was a straw man arguement because he didn't actually offer a reply to Miraclemet:

 

I would be happy to use someone else who offers a service comparable to the CGC, and since we all know that it isn't PGX, perhaps you might offer a recommendation.

 

I have already found an alternative to the Registry, so I'm basically sitting on G and waiting for O.

 

So you want the same (or better) quality, at the same price with a faster turn around time?

Or are you willing to pay more for faster and better?

 

Just wondering what your acceptable metric is...

My acceptable metric would be a grading service that runs their business like Richard Evans runs Bedrock City Comics, like Joe Grisolia runs CFP Comics, like Andrew Cretella runs GACollectibles, and like Dale Roberts runs Dale Roberts Comics. A business where everyone is treated professionally and with the same level of respect and courtesy. A business where if you have a problem they are working to an end where both the business and the customer are equally satisfied instead of admonished like a child in school or taunted with phrases such as, "Well, yeah, prove it." That would be my acceptable metric.

 

Miraclemet specifically asked which metric using time, money or quality of service Watson would be using.

 

Watson replied with his "prove it" response.

 

Miraclemet replied with this:

 

There's a difference between being a good retailer (which your examples may be and do what they do very well) and being a good MANUFACTURER.

 

CGC is a manufacturer of product (the product being a combination of grading, restoration check and slabbing). It is a far more complex process to manufacture than to retail (not saying its easy, just different and not necessarily as complex).

 

I agree that customers should be treated with respect and courtesy, and I haven't had any experiences with CGC to the contrary. And I dont recall seeing CGC on the boards telling people to "prove it" (not sure what "it" is, do you have some specific beef?)

 

It was at this point that I thought the word MANUFACTURER obscured the point and went off on a tangent.

 

I thought the point he was trying to make was the CGC offers a complex service that includes products and service in a level more complex than just say selling a comic or pressing a comic.

 

I agreed with him.

 

Am I wrong?

 

[miraclemet]

 

maybe, maybe not. Who makes the cases? Do they buy them? Are they made in house? And if even the cases are bought, they are 'sort of' like a manufacturer.

 

A comic book comes down the 'line', and a person (or two or more) carefully inspects the book for quality. They track the quality, then proceed to customize a case for the book, then encapsulate the book. Then on to the next book. Sounds a lot like the back end of a line at a manufacturing plant. Then they are processed for shipping. Not exactly the same as a manufacterer, but not too for off from a certain point of view.

 

They need to hire an efficiency expert, who will tell them that they need to specialize. Any one who is trained in grading should be JUST GRADING, all day every day. You can hire other staff relatively easily for EVERY other function from receiving to shipping, to accounting, to collecting comics at shows and witnessing sigs at shows, to customer service to answer emails, to running the website, to answering phones, to management, to admin, to marketing, to safety, to HR. When a company grows (and this one has grown and is growing), you HAVE to start specializing.

 

This should be simple, although painful, but management needs to take the longer view and push it if they really want to be successful.

 

So please CGC, consider hiring a consultant if you can't get these things done on your own (which I know isn't easy). If its a matter of facilities and space, start different shifts. People can be receiving and shipping all night long, managing web orders and the web site, answering emails too.

 

 

fair points above by others and Revat. Yes my choice of word was not right on target. I worked in manufacturing, they arent a full on manufacturer like at Santa's Workshop up in the north pole. I guess the cruxt of my point is that to boil it down to "you need to treat me the way I want to be treated like these retailers treat me" over simplifies the business of CGC, and it irks me.

 

I think you make a good point Revat. CGC is already the leader in terms of market adoption when it comes to comic book slabbing/certification. So now if they want to increase their market share they dont need to take from their competition, they need to convert those raw books on the market to slabbed books. CGC still represents a very small % of comics on the market

 

ebay #s

Platinum Age (1897-1937) 2338 1.03%

Golden Age (1938-55) 75977 4.06%

Silver Age (1956-69) 237557 3.13%

Bronze Age (1970-83) 258856 3.60%

Copper Age (1984-1991) 150128 2.47%

Modern Age (1992-Now) 840943 1.76%

 

Thats era, total # of listings by era, and what % of those listings show up in my CGC filter search. Not exact, but a decent ballpark. And that doesnt even get into how many of those books are actually WORTH CGCing..

 

I think the only way they add to the market is dropping costs and decreasing turn around times. (All things we'd love, but for our own reasons). The only way they do that is by potentially decreasing quality of grading service (hiring more people), but a good quality control manager, and some efficiency evaluation should be able to counteract some of that...

 

[Dr. Balls]

I'd have a hard time calling McDonald's food a high quality product. They are actually a perfect example of the concept being described.

 

They are fast, and cheap, but Filet Mignon they are not.

 

 

For starters, McDonalds hits all three.

 

True. But, it's high quality for the price point - it's all relative, baby.

[Logan510]

I'd have a hard time calling McDonald's food a high quality product. They are actually a perfect example of the concept being described.

 

They are fast, and cheap, but Filet Mignon they are not.

 

 

For starters, McDonalds hits all three.

 

True. But, it's high quality for the price point - it's all relative, baby.

 

Are we talking quality as in taste or quality as in what the actual product is?

[VintageComics]

I'd have a hard time calling McDonald's food a high quality product. They are actually a perfect example of the concept being described.

 

They are fast, and cheap, but Filet Mignon they are not.

 

 

For starters, McDonalds hits all three.

 

True. But, it's high quality for the price point - it's all relative, baby.

 

Good grief. I'll be the first to say it's relative but relative crepe in this case.

 

You get what you pay for in this life, that much is more truthful than someone saying you can get low price, high quality and top service on a regular basis all at the same time.

 

McDonald's is delicious to my taste buds but it's not what I would label as quality food no matter how hard they try to market it as such.

 

 

[miraclemet]

and play.com or any other online retailer may provide fast cheap service (cost/timing) but quality metrics are a far cry from what was expected from a retailer 10, 20, 30 years ago...

 

"quality" from amazon (or Play.com or any other pure online retailer) means they sent the thing I told them to send and it wasn't damaged. And if I have to return it they aren't complete tools about it.

 

Quality (of service) from a brick and mortar, or con dealer or freakin' Bloomingdales means a lot more cause the expectation is higher. So sure play.com meets the three vectors, mostly cause we as consumers have really really lowered the bar for expectations.

 

and I'll second the McDonalds is delicious but I wouldn't say "quality"

[NewWorldOrder]

I'd have a hard time calling McDonald's food a high quality product. They are actually a perfect example of the concept being described.

 

They are fast, and cheap, but Filet Mignon they are not.

 

 

For starters, McDonalds hits all three.

 

True. But, it's high quality for the price point - it's all relative, baby.

 

Good grief. I'll be the first to say it's relative but relative crepe in this case.

 

You get what you pay for in this life, that much is more truthful than someone saying you can get low price, high quality and top service on a regular basis all at the same time.

 

McDonald's is delicious to my taste buds but it's not what I would label as quality food no matter how hard they try to market it as such.

 

 

Is the food terrorist of the world.

 

I wish their commercials which shows fit, good looking, and healthy people were made to show the reality of their customers.

 

Your better off smoking 5 packs a day than eating that junk.

Edited November 6, 2012 by Spiderman-on-Tilt

[october]

I'd have a hard time calling McDonald's food a high quality product. They are actually a perfect example of the concept being described.

 

They are fast, and cheap, but Filet Mignon they are not.

 

 

For starters, McDonalds hits all three.

 

True. But, it's high quality for the price point - it's all relative, baby.

 

Good grief. I'll be the first to say it's relative but relative crepe in this case.

 

You get what you pay for in this life, that much is more truthful than someone saying you can get low price, high quality and top service on a regular basis all at the same time.

 

McDonald's is delicious to my taste buds but it's not what I would label as quality food no matter how hard they try to market it as such.

 

 

Is the food terrorist of the world.

 

I wish the their commercials which shows fit, good looking, and healthy people were made to show the reality of their customers.

 

Your better off smoking 5 packs a day than eating that junk.

 

Price-adjusted that "food" is still garbage. It's bottom of the barrel even where fast food is concerned.

[revat]

To all our customers:

 

All of us at CGC take pride in what we do. In order to accurately grade books they must each be given a certain amount of time and attention. We can’t shorten the grading process in order to move things along more quickly. We understand your frustration regarding grading turn around times and are doing everything in our power to reduce the time between submitting and receiving your graded and encapsulated books. Although being overwhelmed with submissions is a great issue that we don’t want to complain about, it is still an issue none the less. We’d like you to know that we are working 10 hour days and have been working six days a week in an attempt to alleviate the issues with turn around times. We are also looking to hire additional Graders. If you’d like more information or are interested in applying, please check the Careers page of our website for all the details.

 

Please be patient and keep in mind that we are doing our best to get your books back to you properly graded and encapsulated in order to maintain the integrity of what we do and the hobby we do it for.

 

Clearly, they are trying, and trying to make do improve, and maybe even making strides towards that. But would say that unless they're paying VERY well, its probably hard to find qualified graders to even train in Sarasota. So while they certainly should try to hire them, they might have larger gains by increasing in the other facets of their business, and hiring qualified people for accounting, shipping, recieving, admin, convention staff, etc. When I'm getting a CGC SS signature witness at a convention in Seattle on a Thursday by a guy who says he'll probably be the one who grades this comic later, I think "WTF???" Why is this guy (very nice guy) in Seattle??? Shouldn't he be in Florida grading when they have a crazy backlog??? Couldn't they have someone with a less specialized skillset watching someone sign a comic book 3000 miles away?