current turn around rates at CGC 79 79

[VintageComics]

I had 3 books I thought were 9.8s

2 got 9.6

1 9.8 (Wolverine 1999 Annual with Deadpool, 1st SS on the census. I'm pretty happy about that one)

 

1 9.4 that was previously a 9.6 graded just a couple months ago. I was confident it would stay a 9.6 at least.

 

No dmg while opening the slab? I'm worried about the consistency lately, to say the least.

 

I've never said this in 12 years of submissions but they are brutal the last few weeks. They aren't being inconsistent however, they are being consistently brutal.

 

Ditto on that. My tightly graded 9.8's getting 9.6's as well.

 

 

[VintageComics]

I sent in 3 books expected 9.8s, all 3 got 9.8s.. They were shipped last week, so I don't think grading is tight

 

You were fortunate.

 

Imho, this last year has been the tightest CGC has ever been on Moderns - I do a ton of SS books where I crack out 9.8s and I've never experienced this many grade drops upon resubmission.

 

I like tight grading as much as the next guy, but I feel they've moved the needle way too far in the other direction now.

 

+1

You exaggerating dealers!

[VintageComics]

A 9.8 is allowed to have (I believe) at least 1 small flaw (i.e a crease), but when I look at my recent 9.6's, I don't see anything wrong with them. And grader's notes are also (typically) not given for 9.6 and above so that won't tell me the problem either.

 

A 9.8 can even have two very small flaws. A 9.8 is not a perfect book - it depends on the size of the flaws.

 

 

[VintageComics]

I don't understand. If CGC sees a flaw that holds the grade down, what do you want them to do ? I think the customers that actually buy these 9.8 slabs expect an accurately graded product. Why the feeling of entitlement here ? Look at the big picure here. The Modern market is as strong as ever. I think an accurately graded product helps this market.

 

Because if a year later they go back to their usual 'middle of the road' grading (let's call it 'old school grading' under Borock/Haspel/Litch) then it's inconsistent for the market and also not good for the market.

[NewWorldOrder]

I don't understand. If CGC sees a flaw that holds the grade down, what do you want them to do?

Grade that flaw like they have always graded that flaw, not tighter than they have always graded that flaw. Tight grading isn't the issue, changing grading standards is the issue.

 

This, this, this.

 

No no no

 

No standards have been changed.

 

 

[VintageComics]

I sent in 3 books expected 9.8s, all 3 got 9.8s.. They were shipped last week, so I don't think grading is tight

 

You were fortunate.

 

Imho, this last year has been the tightest CGC has ever been on Moderns - I do a ton of SS books where I crack out 9.8s and I've never experienced this many grade drops upon resubmission.

 

I like tight grading as much as the next guy, but I feel they've moved the needle way too far in the other direction now.

 

Much, much too far.

 

My latest sub was 280 SS books. Got a fair number of 9.8s....but I SUB 9.8s...and the rest was all over the map. 9.4 80's, 9.0 70's.

 

Things that didn't use to be a problem...like production corner chips, which are as common as anything in 1980's books...are now being taken into account. Also, printer's creases, which used to be taken into account wayyyy back in the early days, and then no longer taken into account (which is as it should be) are now apparently being taken into account.

 

The issue is that I knew what CGC graded 9.8, and what they did not. Now, I'm back to second guessing, and looking for total perfection before submitting (and still not getting above 9.8, either.) I cannot waste my time submitting a Web of Spiderman #31 and getting a 9.4. That slab is worth much less than it cost to get done. That's not acceptable.

 

Also, I'm getting grading notes like "top front cover rippling/warping, bottom front cover rippling/warping"...on books like Silver Surfer #44 (1991). Every single copy of that book has that issue, as do most Marvels of that time frame (which is partly why Marvel went to offset printing and abandoned newsprint in 1992, and DC did the same.)

 

That's something that Shawn Caffrey knows, because he's done this for so long. It's not something that the "new graders" seem to know, and it seems to be having an effect on grades.

 

CGC cannot change its standards at halftime. We shall see how this turns out.

 

This I know, and this I hope everybody at CGC understands: if a book is in a 9.8 slab, and it hasn't been damaged in the process...and there are enough ultra, ultra, ultra anal SS guys who don't let anything happen to the book in the process...and it comes back in a 9.6 or 9.4 slab....it's not going to be conducive to business.

 

It's high time for a "guaranteed grade" program...and it's certainly possible to implement, if the will is there.

 

I could be wrong, but my personal theory (based on only observations and nothing to do with anything CGC has said) is that some (or many) of the new recruits may not be long time collectors so they view the books as paper artifacts rather than comics.

 

So many defects that a long time collector would view as inconsequential and not even be on our radar as collectors and may not worth deducting much for (as CGC has done over the last decade and a half) may be viewed as a defect to the paper now and is deducted for more than previously.

 

The new grader is typically also the 1st person to see the book (called the pregrader) and so they would not only be responsible for counting the pages and inspecting the book first, they would also list all the defects they see - hence the grading notes being much more extensive than they used to be. They would then assign a grade to the book and pass the book onto the next grader.

 

The next grader now sees the book and the pregrader's notes. The pregrader would influence the 2ndary grader and the finalizer with their notes and their initial grade.

 

Having different teams would explain different grading standards.

 

 

[NewWorldOrder]

Once again reading this thread proves to me that listening to some of you:

 

[Red_Hood]

I sent in 3 books expected 9.8s, all 3 got 9.8s.. They were shipped last week, so I don't think grading is tight

 

You were fortunate.

 

Imho, this last year has been the tightest CGC has ever been on Moderns - I do a ton of SS books where I crack out 9.8s and I've never experienced this many grade drops upon resubmission.

 

I like tight grading as much as the next guy, but I feel they've moved the needle way too far in the other direction now.

 

Much, much too far.

 

My latest sub was 280 SS books. Got a fair number of 9.8s....but I SUB 9.8s...and the rest was all over the map. 9.4 80's, 9.0 70's.

 

Things that didn't use to be a problem...like production corner chips, which are as common as anything in 1980's books...are now being taken into account. Also, printer's creases, which used to be taken into account wayyyy back in the early days, and then no longer taken into account (which is as it should be) are now apparently being taken into account.

 

The issue is that I knew what CGC graded 9.8, and what they did not. Now, I'm back to second guessing, and looking for total perfection before submitting (and still not getting above 9.8, either.) I cannot waste my time submitting a Web of Spiderman #31 and getting a 9.4. That slab is worth much less than it cost to get done. That's not acceptable.

 

Also, I'm getting grading notes like "top front cover rippling/warping, bottom front cover rippling/warping"...on books like Silver Surfer #44 (1991). Every single copy of that book has that issue, as do most Marvels of that time frame (which is partly why Marvel went to offset printing and abandoned newsprint in 1992, and DC did the same.)

 

That's something that Shawn Caffrey knows, because he's done this for so long. It's not something that the "new graders" seem to know, and it seems to be having an effect on grades.

 

CGC cannot change its standards at halftime. We shall see how this turns out.

 

This I know, and this I hope everybody at CGC understands: if a book is in a 9.8 slab, and it hasn't been damaged in the process...and there are enough ultra, ultra, ultra anal SS guys who don't let anything happen to the book in the process...and it comes back in a 9.6 or 9.4 slab....it's not going to be conducive to business.

 

It's high time for a "guaranteed grade" program...and it's certainly possible to implement, if the will is there.

 

This is the best post I've seen in this forum.

Ever since CGC started including grader's notes it seems that

any flaw is picked apart and treated much more harshly.The grading standards do appear to have changed and flaws such as the

manufacturer corner chips and also printer's creases are getting hammered worse then ever before.

The level of inconsistency from the graders is causing many of us to rethink a new business strategy and/or provider.

 

It was said very well above, CGC can't change it's standards at halftime.

[NewWorldOrder]

Or maybe some of you guys are just not professional graders?

 

I have gotten back 200 books since Xmas and things seem very consistent to me.

 

I had a fellow boardie complain about his grades last month. He cracked them out and showed them to me which he then after admitted what he missed. He went from frustrated with CGC to mad at himself. Mistakes of course happen on both sides, but more often than not the submitter failed to see something the professionals saw.

 

 

[NewWorldOrder]

Especially when it comes to the Modern tier the standards have been the same since day 1.

 

I have NEVER seen deviation on the Modern tier grading in the 12 years I have submitting books.

 

I would be rich by now for every time I had to show one of you guys in person the obvious flaws you missed.

 

Over X-mas even I called on an invoice and thought my grades were off....then I got my rejects and I called the grader right away to apologize for me missing obvious flaws and wasting their time going back over the invoice.

 

 

Edited March 10, 2016 by NewWorldOrder

[MetalPSI]

All I know is all this back and forth makes people on the fence think too much

[Old Fashion PB and J]

Once again reading this thread proves to me that listening to some of you:

 

Hey, you. Shut up.

[jsilverjanet]

[Red_Hood]

Or maybe some of you guys are just not professional graders?

 

I have gotten back 200 books since Xmas and things seem very consistent to me.

 

I had a fellow boardie complain about his grades last month. He cracked them out and showed them to me which he then after admitted what he missed. He went from frustrated with CGC to mad at himself. Mistakes of course happen on both sides, but more often than not the submitter failed to see something the professionals saw.

 

 

I've submitted nearly 2,000 in the last year and have had a 82% accuracy rate, with the other 10% being graded higher by CGC and the other 8% graded lower and it has become tighter since grader's notes. Speaking from decades of experience, people are not imagining this tighter phase and back and forth swing of flaws such as printer's creases.

Also, it seems that CGC is grading on a "pressing" curve and are much more harsh on books that are pressed. I'm not referring to the hacks that press improperly. There seems to be this outlook that a pressed book is graded on a tougher bell curve.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I don't understand. If CGC sees a flaw that holds the grade down, what do you want them to do?

Grade that flaw like they have always graded that flaw, not tighter than they have always graded that flaw. Tight grading isn't the issue, changing grading standards is the issue.

 

This, this, this.

 

No no no

 

No standards have been changed.

 

 

Sorry, SOT, but I've got several hundred slabs that tell differently.

 

And it's not that standards have "changed", per se...it's that new, inexperienced graders don't understand what they're looking at. "Rippling/warping", for example, is not an issue for a book like, say, X-Men #94. It IS an issue, however, for Silver Surfer #42, or X-Men #282, or any of a number of books that all came from the printer that way.

 

No offense intended, but you aren't detail-oriented enough to care about spelling, grammar, and punctuation...simple things on a message board, which you have openly scoffed as "not important"....and I'm not degrading you, you don't have to be....but you can't then expect to challenge those who are about as anal as it gets.

 

The devil is ALWAYS in the details.

[LordRahl]

Or maybe some of you guys are just not professional graders?

 

I have gotten back 200 books since Xmas and things seem very consistent to me.

 

I had a fellow boardie complain about his grades last month. He cracked them out and showed them to me which he then after admitted what he missed. He went from frustrated with CGC to mad at himself. Mistakes of course happen on both sides, but more often than not the submitter failed to see something the professionals saw.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Or maybe some of you guys are just not professional graders?

 

See above post.

 

You don't bother with trivial details on a message board....and you don't have to....but that doesn't put you in a position to question people about being "professional graders."

 

There are a handful of regular posters on this board who I would pick as professional graders, who look at books with LOUPES, who pay attention to even the tiniest, most insignificant details and assess books as they are, not as they wish them to be.

 

Schmidt is one of them. Dre is another. Jesperson is another. There aren't many.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Especially when it comes to the Modern tier the standards have been the same since day 1.

 

I have NEVER seen deviation on the Modern tier grading in the 12 years I have submitting books.

 

I would be rich by now for every time I had to show one of you guys in person the obvious flaws you missed.

 

Over X-mas even I called on an invoice and thought my grades were off....then I got my rejects and I called the grader right away to apologize for me missing obvious flaws and wasting their time going back over the invoice.

 

 

When you care enough about minor details to use proper spelling, grammar, and punctuation...trivial, insignificant details that should be easy to master by a perfectionist, right...?...then you can dismiss everyone else as "amateur graders."

 

Until then, you have no room to talk. Truly.

[NewWorldOrder]

Or maybe some of you guys are just not professional graders?

 

See above post.

 

You don't bother with trivial details on a message board....and you don't have to....but that doesn't put you in a position to question people about being "professional graders."

 

There are a handful of regular posters on this board who I would pick as professional graders, who look at books with LOUPES, who pay attention to even the tiniest, most insignificant details and assess books as they are, not as they wish them to be.

 

Schmidt is one of them. Dre is another. Jesperson is another. There aren't many.

 

 

That is exactly what I can do.

[NewWorldOrder]

Especially when it comes to the Modern tier the standards have been the same since day 1.

 

I have NEVER seen deviation on the Modern tier grading in the 12 years I have submitting books.

 

I would be rich by now for every time I had to show one of you guys in person the obvious flaws you missed.

 

Over X-mas even I called on an invoice and thought my grades were off....then I got my rejects and I called the grader right away to apologize for me missing obvious flaws and wasting their time going back over the invoice.

 

 

When you care enough about minor details to use proper spelling, grammar, and punctuation...trivial, insignificant details that should be easy to master by a perfectionist, right...?...then you can dismiss everyone else as "amateur graders."

 

Until then, you have no room to talk. Truly.

 

You are an amateur grader.

 

However if you want a FREE grading lesson I will be more than willing to show you at the next convention you attend.

Edited March 10, 2016 by NewWorldOrder