current turn around rates at CGC 79 79

[LordRahl]

Especially when it comes to the Modern tier the standards have been the same since day 1.

 

I have NEVER seen deviation on the Modern tier grading in the 12 years I have submitting books.

 

I would be rich by now for every time I had to show one of you guys in person the obvious flaws you missed.

 

Over X-mas even I called on an invoice and thought my grades were off....then I got my rejects and I called the grader right away to apologize for me missing obvious flaws and wasting their time going back over the invoice.

 

 

When you care enough about minor details to use proper spelling, grammar, and punctuation...trivial, insignificant details that should be easy to master by a perfectionist, right...?...then you can dismiss everyone else as "amateur graders."

 

Until then, you have no room to talk. Truly.

 

You are an amateur grader.

 

However if you want a FREE grading lesson I will be more than willing to show you at the next convention you attend.

 

Can you please define a "professional grader" and an "amateur grader"?

[BorderlineHoarder]

Seeing the same thing...submitting moderns that look extremely nice and used to get mostly 9.8's and a few 9.6's scattered in there with the odd 9.0 if I missed something. With the last 3 submissions I'm seeing only one or two 9.8's and mostly 9.6's for books that I really can't see a noticeable flaw on.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I sent in 3 books expected 9.8s, all 3 got 9.8s.. They were shipped last week, so I don't think grading is tight

 

You were fortunate.

 

Imho, this last year has been the tightest CGC has ever been on Moderns - I do a ton of SS books where I crack out 9.8s and I've never experienced this many grade drops upon resubmission.

 

I like tight grading as much as the next guy, but I feel they've moved the needle way too far in the other direction now.

 

Much, much too far.

 

My latest sub was 280 SS books. Got a fair number of 9.8s....but I SUB 9.8s...and the rest was all over the map. 9.4 80's, 9.0 70's.

 

Things that didn't use to be a problem...like production corner chips, which are as common as anything in 1980's books...are now being taken into account. Also, printer's creases, which used to be taken into account wayyyy back in the early days, and then no longer taken into account (which is as it should be) are now apparently being taken into account.

 

The issue is that I knew what CGC graded 9.8, and what they did not. Now, I'm back to second guessing, and looking for total perfection before submitting (and still not getting above 9.8, either.) I cannot waste my time submitting a Web of Spiderman #31 and getting a 9.4. That slab is worth much less than it cost to get done. That's not acceptable.

 

Also, I'm getting grading notes like "top front cover rippling/warping, bottom front cover rippling/warping"...on books like Silver Surfer #44 (1991). Every single copy of that book has that issue, as do most Marvels of that time frame (which is partly why Marvel went to offset printing and abandoned newsprint in 1992, and DC did the same.)

 

That's something that Shawn Caffrey knows, because he's done this for so long. It's not something that the "new graders" seem to know, and it seems to be having an effect on grades.

 

CGC cannot change its standards at halftime. We shall see how this turns out.

 

This I know, and this I hope everybody at CGC understands: if a book is in a 9.8 slab, and it hasn't been damaged in the process...and there are enough ultra, ultra, ultra anal SS guys who don't let anything happen to the book in the process...and it comes back in a 9.6 or 9.4 slab....it's not going to be conducive to business.

 

It's high time for a "guaranteed grade" program...and it's certainly possible to implement, if the will is there.

 

I could be wrong, but my personal theory (based on only observations and nothing to do with anything CGC has said) is that some (or many) of the new recruits may not be long time collectors so they view the books as paper artifacts rather than comics.

 

So many defects that a long time collector would view as inconsequential and not even be on our radar as collectors and may not worth deducting much for (as CGC has done over the last decade and a half) may be viewed as a defect to the paper now and is deducted for more than previously.

 

The new grader is typically also the 1st person to see the book (called the pregrader) and so they would not only be responsible for counting the pages and inspecting the book first, they would also list all the defects they see - hence the grading notes being much more extensive than they used to be. They would then assign a grade to the book and pass the book onto the next grader.

 

The next grader now sees the book and the pregrader's notes. The pregrader would influence the 2ndary grader and the finalizer with their notes and their initial grade.

 

Having different teams would explain different grading standards.

 

 

Yes, I think that's absolutely correct. They are looking for "artifact perfection", rather than "comic book perfection." I know that there are things...like printer's creases, which I take for granted, or corner chips, or misaligned staples, or "miscut", that I don't, and have never, considered as flaws, because they are PRODUCTION flaws....and which CGC hasn't considered as flaws, for the most part, either. I've gotten something in the neighborhood of 3,000 9.8s that I've subbed myself over the past 8 years or so...not super high volume, but certainly a goodly chunk...you develop a real handle for how CGC grades.

 

However...CBCS has taken a very strong line stance against production flaws of post-1980 books, and you can have a flawless book with a slightly off-center spine...say, with a bad-ish wrap, white showing, etc...and it will grade no better than 9.6.

 

Same with all other production type flaws.

 

I truly hope that CGC hasn't adopted this same type stance, because it will radically change a lot of things.

 

Great post, Roy.

 

PS. Only (at least) two people are looking at books now, according to CGC's guarantee page:

 

"CGC guarantees that Collectibles encapsulated in a CGC holder are authentic and have been inspected by at least two professionals. "

 

https://www.cgccomics.com/grading/cgc-comics-guarantee.asp

 

(Emphasis added.)

 

Professional whats?

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Especially when it comes to the Modern tier the standards have been the same since day 1.

 

I have NEVER seen deviation on the Modern tier grading in the 12 years I have submitting books.

 

I would be rich by now for every time I had to show one of you guys in person the obvious flaws you missed.

 

Over X-mas even I called on an invoice and thought my grades were off....then I got my rejects and I called the grader right away to apologize for me missing obvious flaws and wasting their time going back over the invoice.

 

 

When you care enough about minor details to use proper spelling, grammar, and punctuation...trivial, insignificant details that should be easy to master by a perfectionist, right...?...then you can dismiss everyone else as "amateur graders."

 

Until then, you have no room to talk. Truly.

 

You are an amateur grader.

 

However if you want a FREE grading lesson I will be more than willing to show you at the next convention you attend.

 

If I'm an amateur, by default, you're a beginner.

 

Again...words mean nothing...the evidence speaks loudly enough.

 

You won't even use correct spelling, punctuation, and grammar on a message board...simple, easy things that many children master by the age of 14 or so...but you expect to be taken seriously on your assessment of the ability of others to grade fine details on a comic book...?

 

Come on, SOT, it's getting a little thick, here.

[NewWorldOrder]

Especially when it comes to the Modern tier the standards have been the same since day 1.

 

I have NEVER seen deviation on the Modern tier grading in the 12 years I have submitting books.

 

I would be rich by now for every time I had to show one of you guys in person the obvious flaws you missed.

 

Over X-mas even I called on an invoice and thought my grades were off....then I got my rejects and I called the grader right away to apologize for me missing obvious flaws and wasting their time going back over the invoice.

 

 

When you care enough about minor details to use proper spelling, grammar, and punctuation...trivial, insignificant details that should be easy to master by a perfectionist, right...?...then you can dismiss everyone else as "amateur graders."

 

Until then, you have no room to talk. Truly.

 

You are an amateur grader.

 

However if you want a FREE grading lesson I will be more than willing to show you at the next convention you attend.

 

If I'm an amateur, by default, you're a beginner.

 

Again...words mean nothing...the evidence speaks loudly enough.

 

You won't even use correct spelling, punctuation, and grammar on a message board...simple, easy things that many children master by the age of 14 or so...but you expect to be taken seriously on your assessment of the ability of others to grade fine details on a comic book...?

 

Come on, SOT, it's getting a little thick, here.

 

Who is SOT?

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

Who is SOT?

 

 

 

Kinda silly to play dumb, when that answer is right in your sigline.

 

[HighRadArt]

 

Who is SOT?

 

 

 

Kinda silly to play dumb, when that answer is right in your sigline.

 

 

[NewWorldOrder]

 

Who is SOT?

 

 

 

Kinda silly to play dumb, when that answer is right in your sigline.

 

 

Formally known as.

[LordRahl]

I sent in 3 books expected 9.8s, all 3 got 9.8s.. They were shipped last week, so I don't think grading is tight

 

You were fortunate.

 

Imho, this last year has been the tightest CGC has ever been on Moderns - I do a ton of SS books where I crack out 9.8s and I've never experienced this many grade drops upon resubmission.

 

I like tight grading as much as the next guy, but I feel they've moved the needle way too far in the other direction now.

 

Much, much too far.

 

My latest sub was 280 SS books. Got a fair number of 9.8s....but I SUB 9.8s...and the rest was all over the map. 9.4 80's, 9.0 70's.

 

Things that didn't use to be a problem...like production corner chips, which are as common as anything in 1980's books...are now being taken into account. Also, printer's creases, which used to be taken into account wayyyy back in the early days, and then no longer taken into account (which is as it should be) are now apparently being taken into account.

 

The issue is that I knew what CGC graded 9.8, and what they did not. Now, I'm back to second guessing, and looking for total perfection before submitting (and still not getting above 9.8, either.) I cannot waste my time submitting a Web of Spiderman #31 and getting a 9.4. That slab is worth much less than it cost to get done. That's not acceptable.

 

Also, I'm getting grading notes like "top front cover rippling/warping, bottom front cover rippling/warping"...on books like Silver Surfer #44 (1991). Every single copy of that book has that issue, as do most Marvels of that time frame (which is partly why Marvel went to offset printing and abandoned newsprint in 1992, and DC did the same.)

 

That's something that Shawn Caffrey knows, because he's done this for so long. It's not something that the "new graders" seem to know, and it seems to be having an effect on grades.

 

CGC cannot change its standards at halftime. We shall see how this turns out.

 

This I know, and this I hope everybody at CGC understands: if a book is in a 9.8 slab, and it hasn't been damaged in the process...and there are enough ultra, ultra, ultra anal SS guys who don't let anything happen to the book in the process...and it comes back in a 9.6 or 9.4 slab....it's not going to be conducive to business.

 

It's high time for a "guaranteed grade" program...and it's certainly possible to implement, if the will is there.

 

I could be wrong, but my personal theory (based on only observations and nothing to do with anything CGC has said) is that some (or many) of the new recruits may not be long time collectors so they view the books as paper artifacts rather than comics.

 

So many defects that a long time collector would view as inconsequential and not even be on our radar as collectors and may not worth deducting much for (as CGC has done over the last decade and a half) may be viewed as a defect to the paper now and is deducted for more than previously.

 

The new grader is typically also the 1st person to see the book (called the pregrader) and so they would not only be responsible for counting the pages and inspecting the book first, they would also list all the defects they see - hence the grading notes being much more extensive than they used to be. They would then assign a grade to the book and pass the book onto the next grader.

 

The next grader now sees the book and the pregrader's notes. The pregrader would influence the 2ndary grader and the finalizer with their notes and their initial grade.

 

Having different teams would explain different grading standards.

 

 

Yes, I think that's absolutely correct. They are looking for "artifact perfection", rather than "comic book perfection." I know that there are things...like printer's creases, which I take for granted, or corner chips, or misaligned staples, or "miscut", that I don't, and have never, considered as flaws, because they are PRODUCTION flaws....and which CGC hasn't considered as flaws, for the most part, either. I've gotten something in the neighborhood of 3,000 9.8s that I've subbed myself over the past 8 years or so...not super high volume, but certainly a goodly chunk...you develop a real handle for how CGC grades.

 

However...CBCS has taken a very strong line stance against production flaws of post-1980 books, and you can have a flawless book with a slightly off-center spine...say, with a bad-ish wrap, white showing, etc...and it will grade no better than 9.6.

 

Same with all other production type flaws.

 

I truly hope that CGC hasn't adopted this same type stance, because it will radically change a lot of things.

 

Great post, Roy.

 

PS. Only (at least) two people are looking at books now, according to CGC's guarantee page:

 

"CGC guarantees that Collectibles encapsulated in a CGC holder are authentic and have been inspected by at least two professionals. "

 

https://www.cgccomics.com/grading/cgc-comics-guarantee.asp

 

(Emphasis added.)

 

Professional whats?

 

 

Yes it would change a lot of things and I hope this isn't the case. But IF it is, CGC needs to let its customers know. If their stance on how much they deduct for typical production flaws like production creases has changed, they need to make that change public as it will greatly affect what is being submitted.

[marmat]

Moderns are probably the biggest part of the CGC business (correct me if I am wrong) , they are getting in a lot of submissions and the difference between 9.6 and 9.8 often is a matter of microscopic details. I understand the frustration, but I believe that at CGC they told the new graders to do the job this way. Imagine if a consistent number of those new graders was putting out an unusual high percentage of 9.8 and above. I bet the discussion would be even louder.

On the other side, how they are doing with golden age books?

Edited March 10, 2016 by marmat

[VintageComics]

Or maybe some of you guys are just not professional graders?

 

The difference between a professional and an amateur is that the professional gets paid for their work.

 

I have gotten back 200 books since Xmas and things seem very consistent to me.

 

I had a fellow boardie complain about his grades last month. He cracked them out and showed them to me which he then after admitted what he missed. He went from frustrated with CGC to mad at himself. Mistakes of course happen on both sides, but more often than not the submitter failed to see something the professionals saw.

 

How about when a book is resubmitted and it comes back in a lower grade with no new defects introduced?

 

Where does that stand in your opinion?

 

[NewWorldOrder]

Or maybe some of you guys are just not professional graders?

 

The difference between a professional and an amateur is that the professional gets paid for their work.

 

I have gotten back 200 books since Xmas and things seem very consistent to me.

 

I had a fellow boardie complain about his grades last month. He cracked them out and showed them to me which he then after admitted what he missed. He went from frustrated with CGC to mad at himself. Mistakes of course happen on both sides, but more often than not the submitter failed to see something the professionals saw.

 

How about when a book is resubmitted and it comes back in a lower grade with no new defects introduced?

 

Where does that stand in your opinion?

 

How do you know that new defects were not introduced?

 

I have seen many books after being cracked out being mis-handled then going from 9.8 to 9.2 or lower.

Edited March 10, 2016 by NewWorldOrder

[VintageComics]

Are you really going to play that game?

 

How do you know that new defects were not introduced?

 

Because I'm a decent 'amateur' grader.

[Chadwick]

Or maybe some of you guys are just not professional graders?

 

The difference between a professional and an amateur is that the professional gets paid for their work.

 

I have gotten back 200 books since Xmas and things seem very consistent to me.

 

I had a fellow boardie complain about his grades last month. He cracked them out and showed them to me which he then after admitted what he missed. He went from frustrated with CGC to mad at himself. Mistakes of course happen on both sides, but more often than not the submitter failed to see something the professionals saw.

 

How about when a book is resubmitted and it comes back in a lower grade with no new defects introduced?

 

Where does that stand in your opinion?

 

 

According to cgc customer service it's impossible to resubmit a book without it being damaged while opening the slab. Also, you're exaggerating.

[NewWorldOrder]

Are you really going to play that game?

 

How do you know that new defects were not introduced?

 

Because I'm a decent 'amateur' grader.

 

Do you consider yourself a professional grader?

 

I am not being a d ick. Curious on your own opinion about yourself.

[Astoria]

Or maybe some of you guys are just not professional graders?

 

The difference between a professional and an amateur is that the professional gets paid for their work.

 

I have gotten back 200 books since Xmas and things seem very consistent to me.

 

I had a fellow boardie complain about his grades last month. He cracked them out and showed them to me which he then after admitted what he missed. He went from frustrated with CGC to mad at himself. Mistakes of course happen on both sides, but more often than not the submitter failed to see something the professionals saw.

 

How about when a book is resubmitted and it comes back in a lower grade with no new defects introduced?

 

Where does that stand in your opinion?

 

 

According to cgc customer service it's impossible to resubmit a book without it being damaged while opening the slab. Also, you're exaggerating.

 

 

 

Then why in the world would CGC reps be opening them at cons for signatures?

[Chadwick]

Or maybe some of you guys are just not professional graders?

 

The difference between a professional and an amateur is that the professional gets paid for their work.

 

I have gotten back 200 books since Xmas and things seem very consistent to me.

 

I had a fellow boardie complain about his grades last month. He cracked them out and showed them to me which he then after admitted what he missed. He went from frustrated with CGC to mad at himself. Mistakes of course happen on both sides, but more often than not the submitter failed to see something the professionals saw.

 

How about when a book is resubmitted and it comes back in a lower grade with no new defects introduced?

 

Where does that stand in your opinion?

 

 

According to cgc customer service it's impossible to resubmit a book without it being damaged while opening the slab. Also, you're exaggerating.

 

 

 

Then why in the world would CGC reps be opening them at cons for signatures?

 

$$$

[Chadwick]

Are you really going to play that game?

 

How do you know that new defects were not introduced?

 

Because I'm a decent 'amateur' grader.

 

Do you consider yourself a professional grader?

 

I am not being a d ick. Curious on your own opinion about yourself.

 

Do you consider yourself a professional d|ck, or is it just natural? Curious, bro.

[Awax]

Ibtl

[LordRahl]

Are you really going to play that game?

 

How do you know that new defects were not introduced?

 

Because I'm a decent 'amateur' grader.

 

Do you consider yourself a professional grader?

 

I am not being a d ick. Curious on your own opinion about yourself.

 

How much do you get paid to grade comic books and who is paying you?