Recent Pre-Code Purchases 41 41

[goldust40]

Andy, I agree with your sentiments. The fact that it's a Harvey does give me pause, as that means that there are likely several dozen copies (at least) of this book floating around in vf/nm or better. Plus, it's just too pricey for me ar this time of year. My wife is anything but a golddigger (the fact that she married me proves it!), but don't think I could take the look on her face...I can see it now...

 

"Look honey, I got you this beeeeauuuutiiiful snowglobe for Christmas this year!! And by the way, check out this NM BCM #50 I bought for me! Shake that snowglobe! Shake it, shake it!!"

 

Btw Andy, my slabbed Ghosts came in the mail yesterday, looks great!!

 

Glad you like it!!

[*paull*]

In my opinion, that price is absolutely ludicrous. If that book (a Gerber 4), with known file copies in existance, is worth $2500, I'd like to hear a price for a 9.4 Weird Mysteries #5 (Gerber 6) or Mister Mystery #12 (Gerber 6).

Edited November 13, 2004 by paull

[shrunkenhead]

Well, Metro's last mass mailing had a Mr. Mystery #11 in 9.2 for over 6k....

[*paull*]

Wow.... that price is unbelievable. And that's not even a #12. If it was, I think you could expect Metro to charge $7K or $8K. I bet that a 9.4 would come close to $10K.

[precodekeith]

I agree that these prices are unbelievable. You know what, they are almost a downright shame as well. I hate to bring up the SE Hinton "That was then, this is now" theme again, but I looked in my notebook and in approx. '94/95 I paid $75 for a MISTER MYSTERY 12 in vg!

 

I'm starting to think the pre-code "boom" of the mid/late 90's did more harm to the actual horror fans of these books then anything else, simply because it did more to put these books out of the price range of the people who enjoy them the most more than any other event I can think of.

 

Now, I make that statement on the basis that, of the vast majority of horror comic fans I know, (and being the self-publisher of a horror comic fanzine a I know a few) most horror fans are READERS of these fine books. Yes, we all agree it would be swell to have a great NM copy of Book XYZ, but horror fans in general love to ENJOY the VISCERAL feeling that horror stories bring. So, WE READ OUR COMICS!

 

The complete downside is that when "50's horror" became hot and attracted speculators some few years back, the inevitable rising price of a NM translated into (obviously) rising prices for mid and low grades as well. When reading copies got absolutely ridiculous in price, I saw a great deal of former pre-code collectors migrate to Bronze Age horror, where the books are more affordable. (ESPECIALLY in the reading grades!) It reached a point where the horror collector was more scared by the price of the book, rather than the contents!

 

Maybe I shouldn't make these posts while under the influence of a few cans of malted hops, at the risk of offending the high grade slab crowd who never read their comics, but frankly at this point I don't care if those types get offended. Spoken like a true HORROR addict, I must say: " I can't wait until 20 years from now, when (hopefully) there is no market for multi-thousand dollar horror books, and you old, greedy, "investment" nerds are all dead and rotting, so I can buy your collections at a reasonable price, READ YOUR BOOKS, drink my beer, and whiz on your tombstones.... alll at the same time..."

[shrunkenhead]

 

and a

 

 

and definitely a

[Jayman]

And this might be the Chianti speaking...but here, here!

[shiverbones]

way to go Keith!

[*paull*]

Good post! I read all the horror books that I buy. I rarely buy anything over 6.0 condition and most of my books are in about VG. Any key books in higher grade is just crazy expensive.

[rjpb]

Keith

$75 for a VG Mr. Mystery 12 in 94-95 was a steal back then - I remember Harley Yee had a VG+ copy for $300 back around that time - it was that price that had me cross it off my want list as it was never a must-have cover for me. Around 95-96 I came across a FR copy for $40, which I turned around and sold in a CBG classified for $75.

 

As for prices on high grade horror classics - except for the Harvey File copies - I'm afraid the days of buying these for only 3 or 4 times what a VG copy might cost are gone. While the absurd multiples for every .2 increase in grade may ease somewhat, I think that there is a larger appreciation for just how rare most of this stuff is in unrestored HG - and there will always be enough deep pocket collectors out there to compete for any pre-code book considered a "classic". That being said, 6K for a Mister Mystery #11 sounds extremely ambitious - I'll be surprised if Metro sees that much for it.

[sfilosa]

Maybe I shouldn't make these posts while under the influence of a few cans of malted hops, at the risk of offending the high grade slab crowd who never read their comics, but frankly at this point I don't care if those types get offended. Spoken like a true HORROR addict, I must say: " I can't wait until 20 years from now, when (hopefully) there is no market for multi-thousand dollar horror books, and you old, greedy, "investment" nerds are all dead and rotting, so I can buy your collections at a reasonable price, READ YOUR BOOKS, drink my beer, and whiz on your tombstones.... alll at the same time..."

 

But what does a VG copy of a Horror Book have to do High-Grade copies?

 

One of the biggest mistakes was Overstreet moving prices of GD to FN books up every year because NM copy prices went up. But over the past few years they have correct this.

 

There is nothing wrong about collecting comics in high grade or buying them to read. But you are implying that the people who buy High Grade copies are driving up the prices on VG copies, that is not true (the Silver-Age market proves that out). If dealers want to keep increasing prices, they can do that, and if no one buys the VG copies I'm sure prices will come down. But if they have one of the few nicest copies in exsistence (even if that is only a VF), they might price it extremely high, hoping for a big sale. And if that's the only available copy even for the READER collectors, than that's too bad. Bascially, if the book is extremely hard to get, it's going to sell for a high price regardless of grade.

[precodekeith]

RJ - I got that book ( MM # 12) off of a dealer named Dale Roberts. While he was never a seller that priced books "cheaply", or even one very willing to discount/ cut deals, he was at least not a dealer who priced his material above or ahead of the OS guide. (although in this case I question my own statement! obviously this was a deal!)

As for Harley, I bought many books from him in the 90's. He always had a nice supply of horror. His gig, if you ever noticed, was to "undergrade" a book, but "overprice" it. Example: he would take a FINE book and grade it at VG, but price it out at FINE. (essentially the right price for the true grade, you just wouldn't be able to complain about condition) What this actually did, since Harley reported his sales to OSPG, was continually help RAISE (somewhat deceiptfully) the cost of comics years after year. Get it? He was reporting the sale of a VG book at guide FINE price! Yikes! That's why I quit dealing with him.

 

As for true HG horror (or any old comic genre for that matter) I actually DON't have a problem with slabbing/ high prices for the finest remaining examples. Just so long as the end result is not a ridiculous raise in the cost of lower grades for collectors who enjoy the reading of their books the way they were intended to be enjoyed.

[*paull*]

The thing about Metro is that they can afford to sit on a book until the market reaches their price. They don't have to make guesses about where it will sell... price it high and at the precise moment that the market accepts that price, it will sell since they are the largest and most visible dealer.

 

I don't think the high grade copies are driving up the cost of low grade books. I think pre-code horror has remained relatively flat on the low end while high grade has been steadily rising. The rarity of high grade copies has become much clearer with the release of Gerber and the ability to discuss books over the net.

 

I bought my beater copy of MM #12 for $200 earlier this year. It's complete, no tape or tears, but just has a lot of wear, it's probably a G+. The interesting thing is that it probably sold for the same amount in the late nineties during the boom. I've bought a lot of pre-code books at the same prices I saw during that time.

[precodekeith]

But what does a VG copy of a Horror Book have to do High-Grade copies?

 

One of the biggest mistakes was Overstreet moving prices of GD to FN books up every year because NM copy prices went up. But over the past few years they have correct this.

 

There is nothing wrong about collecting comics in high grade or buying them to read. But you are implying that the people who buy High Grade copies are driving up the prices on VG copies, that is not true (the Silver-Age market proves that out). If dealers want to keep increasing prices, they can do that, and if no one buys the VG copies I'm sure prices will come down. But if they have one of the few nicest copies in exsistence (even if that is only a VF), they might price it extremely high, hoping for a big sale. And if that's the only available copy even for the READER collectors, than that's too bad. Bascially, if the book is extremely hard to get, it's going to sell for a high price regardless of grade.

 

Sfilosa, hope you don't take the entire post at face value. It is what it is: an intoxicated rant (although a funny one, IMO) stating some of my perceptions, be they skewed or not. I want to clarify to all on this thread that it is not a shot at anyone in particular, as I enjoy most all of your posts.

 

Now one thing you and I CAN disagree on, is that I think HG sales DO have impact on lower grade copies. Specifically in my post I was making reference to the pre-code horror "boom" of the mid/late 90's. OSPG might not be using a "sliding scale" NOW, but you must admit they were using one THEN. As stated, reading copies eventually got so ridiculously priced that many pre-code collectors moved on to more affordable pastures. I think the mistake OS is making now is that they are NOT correcting the market prices on lower grade horror books.

 

I actually do agree- there is nothing wrong with collecting HG horror books. At some point, for the sake of history alone, a NM copy of MM # 12 (or myriad other books) needs to be slabbed. Yup. As above, my problem comes in when the old "trickle down" syndrome effects non HG copies.

 

And I DO have a problem with these goofy clowns who find it necessarry to slab 4.5 copies (when there are HG slabs out there) and ask x2 guide because of the friggin plastic. WTF? When will these people get outta Dodge?!

 

If no one buys the VG copies at high prices we can HOPE the cost eventually comes down, Sfilosa. That is not guaranteed though, sadly. How many people out there have bought books and will sit on them until they die unless they can make big multiples on them?

[precodekeith]

I don't think the high grade copies are driving up the cost of low grade books. .....

 

.....I've bought a lot of pre-code books at the same prices I saw during that time.

 

HG has drove up the price in the past, which is what the original post was basically refering to for the most part. I would hate to see those days happen again, ya know. Once bitten, twice shy they say....

 

Yes, currently the non HG market is SLOWLY falling back to the more common - sense prices of pre-boom days, but I don't think OS has done their part on lowering corrections to date. Let's hope prices keep falling! Sadly, this drop is really only realized for the most part on auction sites like eBay, when the seller starts at a reasonable opening bid. Often at cons the sticker price still goes back to the gold-rush style pricing of the "boom" days, with dealers who aren't so quick to take $20 - $35 for a book they have marked at say $45- $55.

[rjpb]

Often at cons the sticker price still goes back to the gold-rush style pricing of the "boom" days, with dealers who aren't so quick to take $20 - $35 for a book they have marked at say $45- $55.

 

Screw 'em - I find alot more stuff on Ebay than I ever found at shows.

[*paull*]

I'm not so sure that high grade pre-code horror books have affected lower grade copies. Case in point, let's look at Mister Mystery #12.

 

In 1996, I think that a VG copy of this book probably would have sold for about $150 - $200. Yet a VG copy today would sell for about $400 based on the sales of a few low grade copies that I've seen this year.

 

Yet a NM 9.4 copy could sell for roughly $8000 now. What would it have sold for in 1996? Nowhere near that price, that's for sure. If there was a roughly 2.5x increase in the VG copy since 1996, I believe that there was way more than a 2.5x increase in the NM 9.4 copy, probably 5x to 8x.. The spread in high grade to low grade books has increased dramatically, just as they have in Silver Age Marvels.

 

The reason that I don't think that high grade copies are influencing low grade prices is that they seem to appeal to two completely different worlds. The prices are so far apart between the very high grade and low grade copies and don't seem to attract the same people.

Edited November 15, 2004 by paull

[*paull*]

I agree completely on the pricing of low grade pre-code horror at cons... in many cases the prices haven't changed since the boom years. One of the most over priced items that I commonly see at cons are L.B. Cole Star Publications books in Good condition priced at close to $100 per. No sane person should be paying that much for that grade. They sell on eBay for a fraction of that.

 

I should also mention that pre-code horror key issues are obviously going to sell in low grade for relatively high prices. There's a list of books that sell on sight in VG at $300-$500 a piece when they do turn up. If anyone is complaining about prices for keys such as Weird Mysteries #5, Mister Mystery #12, Fight Against Crime #20, Startling Terror Tales #11, etc., don't blame the high grade copies or CGC... it's simply rarity that is driving up prices. A Good copy of any of these books will sell for hundreds.

[*paull*]

This is one of my newest books, bought from the same dealer that sold me my Haunted Thrills #5, #8 and #10. They all came from an owner that spent many years putting together a complete collection of Ajax/Farrell pre-code horror books. Most of the books are in the area of F- through VF, which is not easy to do for Farrell books. This is Haunted Thrills #6, a book that I already own, but in much lower grade (Good+). This one is at least a Fine, and I find it to be one of the scarcest in the run. It's one of my favorite pre-code horror covers, and one that I think is underappreciated by fans.

 

Edited November 16, 2004 by paull

[*paull*]

Haunted Thrills #6 has one of my favorite pre-code stories. I didn't include the whole story here, just the beginning and end... basically a man is on a ship that is overrun by rats.... as you'll see here.

 

Edited November 16, 2004 by paull