STRANGE TALES #110 Club! 9 9

[Jaydogrules]

Unbelievable prices now on this one.

 

$3,625 for a low PQ 7.0 is great! I'm getting reeeeeal close to selling my 6.0 W and 4.5 OW. May wait until the movie teaser shows up at SDCC

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221482726934

 

Not every collector is a "'PQ' snob". And some outright just don't care about it, understanding the arbitrariness of it (barring brittle, of course).

 

-J.

low pq tends to fall short of books with superior pq when it's time to sell. So yes pq matters.

 

This does not occur on any verifiable or consistent basis.

 

-J.

 

 

Um, yes it does. Why don't you run a regression analysis on price and PQ for books in the same grade, during the same timeframe, and you'll see the correllation. After years of looking at GPA, LINK, E-bay, etc. prices, it becomes obvious that PQ does have an impact on sales prices.

 

You are speaking in broad strokes. And this is simply not true. You cannot do anything more than provide anecdotal evidence to justify your opinion, and I can just as easily counter with anecdotal evidence to support the contrary position. If you don't mind paying more for that part of a label that is known for being notoriously arbitrary, more power to you. But as I said there are enough shoppers out there who it doesn't matter to, that negate whatever perceived price difference you think there may be.

 

-J.

 

 

Whatever. The evidence is there. PQ does effect price and you're only fooling yourself if you think otherwise. If you want to argue about CGC's consistency on PQ designations, that's a completely separate argument.

 

Are you really going to sit there and tell us that the same ST #110 CGC 7.0 book with WHITE pages would sell for the same price as this OW copy?

 

On any given day, absolutely. And you cannot state otherwise. That's the problem with anecdotal evidence....it cannot be tested using the scientific method. I understand that "PQ" enthusiasts love to look for that anecdotal evidence and say "A-ha-, see!". And a day or week or two later a CR/OW book sells for the same price or more even, and the room falls silent. "PQ" obviously matters to you and loads others, but it does not matter enough to enough others for it to truly and/or significantly affect price in the grand scheme of things. If a person makes a buying decision based only on "PQ", they are literally just buying the label, not the book. We are always told to do the exact opposite of that.

 

-J.

 

 

 

Actually, I have stated otherwise...anecdotal or not...it's a reality. I'm not a "PQ snob"...the primary reason it matters to me is because I know it matters to others...and impacts the market price should I ever decide to sell a book.

 

And we pay CGC good money for their opinion on the grades and PQ of those slabbed books. Although sometimes their consistency leaves something to be desired, we cannot see inside a slabbed book therefore their opinion/label is all we have to go on. I think the "buy the book not the label" really only applies to the grade designation and visual appeal of the book, not the PQ.

 

I think the key is - does PQ factor into the grade already?

 

If i does, that should mean that between a W book and a OW book in 6.0.... the W book must have other issues holdin it back (since its not the PQ) and it might only be a 5.5 or lower structurally etc. if it had OW PQ.

 

So there would be basis for saying that two equal graded books, it might be the one with the lowest PQ that must be better on other areas...

 

___

 

On the other hand i PQ does NOT factor into the grade, then it could be considered something extra and I would assume a price premium for equally graded books.

 

I am not aware if it does or does not factor into the grade already, but I actually think it does..

 

PQ is not factored into the grade by CGC. Though books with exceedingly poor "page quality" (eg, "Dark Tan" or worse) are grade capped, these books are not usually high grade anyway.

It is actually my belief that because "PQ" does not actually affect the grade, and because CGC is most notoriously inconsistent with the "PQ" they decide to slap on labels, that this is the reason why no real, significant or consistent price variations exist among books in like grades.

 

-J.

[namisgr]

PQ is not factored into the grade by CGC. Though books with exceedingly poor "page quality" (eg, "Dark Tan" or worse) are grade capped, these books are not usually high grade anyway.

It is actually my belief that because "PQ" does not actually affect the grade, and because CGC is most notoriously inconsistent with the "PQ" they decide to slap on labels, that this is the reason why no real, significant or consistent price variations exist among books in like grades.

 

-J.

 

First off, page quality will sometimes be telling information for the condition of the interior covers. Books with toasted interior covers receive significant numerical downgrades, as they do for toasted front and back covers. So while it isn't the page quality in and of itself that leads to numerical downgrades, poor page quality and downgrades sometimes go hand in hand.

 

Second, saying something over and over doesn't make it any more right than it was the first time it was said. At the least, it can be agreed that there are many long-time collectors who (i) seek out books with superior page quality designations, (ii) pay more for them, and (iii) notice that many others pay more for them as well.

 

I'll go out on a limb and guess that Dan paid above recent GPA average to acquire that gorgeous white paged ST110.

[Jaydogrules]

PQ is not factored into the grade by CGC. Though books with exceedingly poor "page quality" (eg, "Dark Tan" or worse) are grade capped, these books are not usually high grade anyway.

It is actually my belief that because "PQ" does not actually affect the grade, and because CGC is most notoriously inconsistent with the "PQ" they decide to slap on labels, that this is the reason why no real, significant or consistent price variations exist among books in like grades.

 

-J.

 

First off, page quality will sometimes be telling information for the condition of the interior covers. Books with toasted interior covers receive significant numerical downgrades, as they do for toasted front and back covers.

 

Second, saying something over and over doesn't make it any more right than it was the first time it was said. At the least, it can be agreed that there are many long-time collectors who (i) seek out books with superior page quality designations, (ii) pay more for them, and (iii) notice that others pay more for them as well.

 

...and it can also be argued that there are at least as many collectors who do not, hence the non-quantifiable, inconsistent differences in price. I am struggling to understand why this fact seems to trouble some folks so much.

 

-J.

[namisgr]

PQ is not factored into the grade by CGC. Though books with exceedingly poor "page quality" (eg, "Dark Tan" or worse) are grade capped, these books are not usually high grade anyway.

It is actually my belief that because "PQ" does not actually affect the grade, and because CGC is most notoriously inconsistent with the "PQ" they decide to slap on labels, that this is the reason why no real, significant or consistent price variations exist among books in like grades.

 

-J.

 

First off, page quality will sometimes be telling information for the condition of the interior covers. Books with toasted interior covers receive significant numerical downgrades, as they do for toasted front and back covers.

 

Second, saying something over and over doesn't make it any more right than it was the first time it was said. At the least, it can be agreed that there are many long-time collectors who (i) seek out books with superior page quality designations, (ii) pay more for them, and (iii) notice that others pay more for them as well.

 

...and it can also be said that there are at least as many collectors who do not. I am struggling to understand why this fact seems to trouble some folks.

 

-J.

 

It doesn't. Your insulting collectors who disagree with your personal stance and insistence that page quality doesn't affect pricing do.

[Jaydogrules]

PQ is not factored into the grade by CGC. Though books with exceedingly poor "page quality" (eg, "Dark Tan" or worse) are grade capped, these books are not usually high grade anyway.

It is actually my belief that because "PQ" does not actually affect the grade, and because CGC is most notoriously inconsistent with the "PQ" they decide to slap on labels, that this is the reason why no real, significant or consistent price variations exist among books in like grades.

 

-J.

 

First off, page quality will sometimes be telling information for the condition of the interior covers. Books with toasted interior covers receive significant numerical downgrades, as they do for toasted front and back covers.

 

Second, saying something over and over doesn't make it any more right than it was the first time it was said. At the least, it can be agreed that there are many long-time collectors who (i) seek out books with superior page quality designations, (ii) pay more for them, and (iii) notice that others pay more for them as well.

 

...and it can also be said that there are at least as many collectors who do not. I am struggling to understand why this fact seems to trouble some folks.

 

-J.

 

It doesn't. Your insulting collectors who disagree with your personal stance and insistence that page quality doesn't affect pricing do.

 

Due respect namisgr, I don't believe I have insulted anybody, at least not directly. As I said a few posts back, some folks think they should pay more, some don't. The divide keeps prices fairly consistent for the books in grade, so to each his own my friend.

 

-J.

[Bomber-Bob]

I am struggling to understand why this fact seems to trouble some folks so much.

 

-J.

 

I assume your expertise on this matter allows you to call it a 'fact'. I don't see it the same way as you. I am a PQ snob and I will pay more for a fresh looking book. I am NOT troubled by this. It seems like the folks that argue against PQ valuation are more troubled about it.

[Drummy]

Hey all --

 

Thanks for the nice words on my 6.0! It actually has a clean back cover and only a tiny spine split, but there is a small tear on the right edge above the wizard's head and another bit of trouble above the 'g' in the title. A few other problems here and there, but a great spine and I like the centering and color/gloss.

 

Bought this on Comiclink for $2500 a few weeks ago -- I think that's about GPA right now for a Fine? Just couldn't pass up this copy regardless.

 

And with regard to page quality, I am indeed a snob. Don't really know why I am, given how inconsistent CGC is with it; just one of those things for me.

 

Thanks again,

 

Dan

[Jaydogrules]

I am struggling to understand why this fact seems to trouble some folks so much.

 

-J.

 

I assume your expertise on this matter allows you to call it a 'fact'. I don't see it the same way as you. I am a PQ snob and I will pay more for a fresh looking book. I am NOT troubled by this. It seems like the folks that argue against PQ valuation are more troubled about it.

 

Actually, the reverse is true. Since they don't pay a "premium" for it, they have no skin in the game, and don't need to rationalize their buying decisions one way or the other.

 

Dan- you have an awesome book, great presenter for the grade. You also got a splendid deal on it, regardless of the so-called "PQ" on the label. I only post this recent ebay result as a demonstration of my counter point, since your book has been sought to be used as anecdotal evidence by another poster for their point.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Strange-Tales-110-CGC-6-0-1st-Dr-Strange-/141230026995?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item20e1f730f3&nma=true&si=T6Np1tB5%252FZYDnmTPautXEt6zbyY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

-J.

[bronze johnny]

I am struggling to understand why this fact seems to trouble some folks so much.

 

-J.

 

I assume your expertise on this matter allows you to call it a 'fact'. I don't see it the same way as you. I am a PQ snob and I will pay more for a fresh looking book. I am NOT troubled by this. It seems like the folks that argue against PQ valuation are more troubled about it.

 

Page quality should not be entirely discounted when assessing a book. I can see the argument from both sides and it really comes down to preferences. Some collectors take better pq as one factor to consider in determining whether to add a book to their collections. Silver Age books are relatively much more available in an ow or better pq. If a collector has the option to purchase a SA book with ow or better pq and it satisfies their collecting goal, then why not? Unfortunately such options as I've come to learn over the years, are not as readily available to Pre Code collectors. But I do prefer SA books with ow or better pq in my collection.

 

Bob, I wouldn't call you a snob. Rather, you're collecting goals require certain qualifications that may not meet the goals of others (and I love your choice of books and incredible collection).

 

There is one issue that I've been looking at when it comes to pq, particularly where the belief is that a book with white pq. was probably better taken care of and stored than those with c-ow pages. My initial response to this is that I agree. But then we have what I call the Savannah Problem. Runs that were stored under the same or similar conditions that have books that range from white to cream-ow etc. And I'm well aware of the Savannah books having been stored in different locations but were all the runs also randomly seperated? Doubtful that all of them were. But the pq range for the Savannah books on some SA DC runs is quite amazing as I've seen here on the boards. Judging from the scans, it's might be difficult to say a given white pager is in this run where the grades are similar is superior in structure and overall presentation to the c-ow book. This is evident among the Savannah Challengers books that were recently posted in the SA Challies thread. Perhaps the question as to whether white pagers always present better than the "lesser" quality pq books is one that should be carefully evaluated on a "case by case basis?"

 

John

[AlexanderM]

PQ is not factored into the grade by CGC. Though books with exceedingly poor "page quality" (eg, "Dark Tan" or worse) are grade capped, these books are not usually high grade anyway.

It is actually my belief that because "PQ" does not actually affect the grade, and because CGC is most notoriously inconsistent with the "PQ" they decide to slap on labels, that this is the reason why no real, significant or consistent price variations exist among books in like grades.

 

-J.

 

First off, page quality will sometimes be telling information for the condition of the interior covers. Books with toasted interior covers receive significant numerical downgrades, as they do for toasted front and back covers.

 

Second, saying something over and over doesn't make it any more right than it was the first time it was said. At the least, it can be agreed that there are many long-time collectors who (i) seek out books with superior page quality designations, (ii) pay more for them, and (iii) notice that others pay more for them as well.

 

...and it can also be said that there are at least as many collectors who do not. I am struggling to understand why this fact seems to trouble some folks.

 

-J.

 

It doesn't. Your insulting collectors who disagree with your personal stance and insistence that page quality doesn't affect pricing do.

 

Due respect namisgr, I don't believe I have insulted anybody, at least not directly. As I said a few posts back, some folks think they should pay more, some don't. The divide keeps prices fairly consistent for the books in grade, so to each his own my friend.

 

-J.

 

Statistically speaking it is very likely there would be a relationship between PQ and price - if "some people will pay more and other will not".

 

In order for there to not be a relationship we would need either noone to want to pay a premium, or around the same amount of people to pay a premium for better PQ to be be countered by about the same amount of people wanting to pay less for better PQ.

Edited July 21, 2014 by AlexanderM

[AGGIEZ]

PQ is not factored into the grade by CGC. Though books with exceedingly poor "page quality" (eg, "Dark Tan" or worse) are grade capped, these books are not usually high grade anyway.

It is actually my belief that because "PQ" does not actually affect the grade, and because CGC is most notoriously inconsistent with the "PQ" they decide to slap on labels, that this is the reason why no real, significant or consistent price variations exist among books in like grades.

 

-J.

 

First off, page quality will sometimes be telling information for the condition of the interior covers. Books with toasted interior covers receive significant numerical downgrades, as they do for toasted front and back covers.

 

Second, saying something over and over doesn't make it any more right than it was the first time it was said. At the least, it can be agreed that there are many long-time collectors who (i) seek out books with superior page quality designations, (ii) pay more for them, and (iii) notice that others pay more for them as well.

 

...and it can also be said that there are at least as many collectors who do not. I am struggling to understand why this fact seems to trouble some folks.

 

-J.

 

It doesn't. Your insulting collectors who disagree with your personal stance and insistence that page quality doesn't affect pricing do.

 

Due respect namisgr, I don't believe I have insulted anybody, at least not directly. As I said a few posts back, some folks think they should pay more, some don't. The divide keeps prices fairly consistent for the books in grade, so to each his own my friend.

 

-J.

 

 

 

 

-signed, the OPQS..the original PQ snob...

 

 

[Jaydogrules]

PQ is not factored into the grade by CGC. Though books with exceedingly poor "page quality" (eg, "Dark Tan" or worse) are grade capped, these books are not usually high grade anyway.

It is actually my belief that because "PQ" does not actually affect the grade, and because CGC is most notoriously inconsistent with the "PQ" they decide to slap on labels, that this is the reason why no real, significant or consistent price variations exist among books in like grades.

 

-J.

 

First off, page quality will sometimes be telling information for the condition of the interior covers. Books with toasted interior covers receive significant numerical downgrades, as they do for toasted front and back covers.

 

Second, saying something over and over doesn't make it any more right than it was the first time it was said. At the least, it can be agreed that there are many long-time collectors who (i) seek out books with superior page quality designations, (ii) pay more for them, and (iii) notice that others pay more for them as well.

 

...and it can also be said that there are at least as many collectors who do not. I am struggling to understand why this fact seems to trouble some folks.

 

-J.

 

It doesn't. Your insulting collectors who disagree with your personal stance and insistence that page quality doesn't affect pricing do.

 

Due respect namisgr, I don't believe I have insulted anybody, at least not directly. As I said a few posts back, some folks think they should pay more, some don't. The divide keeps prices fairly consistent for the books in grade, so to each his own my friend.

 

-J.

 

Statistically speaking it is very likely there would be a relationship between PQ and price - if "some people will pay more and other will not".

 

In order for there to not be a relationship we would need either noone to want to pay a premium, or around the same amount of people to pay a premium for better PQ to be be countered by about the same amount of people wanting to pay less for better PQ.

 

If this were true then one would have to come up with an explanation/justification for why and when books with "lesser PQ" sell for more than books with "better PQ" in the same grade. It is my hypothesis that it is this that equalizes prices, not the "amount of people" who will or will not pay a "premium" (although that is also a contributing factor).

 

-J.

 

[Jaydogrules]

PQ is not factored into the grade by CGC. Though books with exceedingly poor "page quality" (eg, "Dark Tan" or worse) are grade capped, these books are not usually high grade anyway.

It is actually my belief that because "PQ" does not actually affect the grade, and because CGC is most notoriously inconsistent with the "PQ" they decide to slap on labels, that this is the reason why no real, significant or consistent price variations exist among books in like grades.

 

-J.

 

First off, page quality will sometimes be telling information for the condition of the interior covers. Books with toasted interior covers receive significant numerical downgrades, as they do for toasted front and back covers.

 

Second, saying something over and over doesn't make it any more right than it was the first time it was said. At the least, it can be agreed that there are many long-time collectors who (i) seek out books with superior page quality designations, (ii) pay more for them, and (iii) notice that others pay more for them as well.

 

...and it can also be said that there are at least as many collectors who do not. I am struggling to understand why this fact seems to trouble some folks.

 

-J.

 

It doesn't. Your insulting collectors who disagree with your personal stance and insistence that page quality doesn't affect pricing do.

 

Due respect namisgr, I don't believe I have insulted anybody, at least not directly. As I said a few posts back, some folks think they should pay more, some don't. The divide keeps prices fairly consistent for the books in grade, so to each his own my friend.

 

-J.

 

 

 

 

-signed, the OPQS..the original PQ snob...

 

 

 

 

-J.

[gadzukes]

Add me to the club as well! Didn't want to lay out too much for this one, but couldn't resist given the intangibles...

 

 

 

That is such a fresh and crisp looking, white-paged copy!

 

Best 6.0 I've ever seen. The flaws must be on the back cover?

 

I'd trade my 6.5 for it any day of the week.

 

I predict a top spine split is what hurt the grade so severely. That's my guess.

 

If I had nothing else but this photo to look at, I'd guess 8.0 - 8.5.

[Bomber-Bob]

 

Bob, I wouldn't call you a snob. Rather, you're collecting goals require certain qualifications that may not meet the goals of others (and I love your choice of books and incredible collection).

 

John

John, thanks for the compliment on my collection. I am okay being a PQ snob, I feel like I'm in good company. My argument here is that it's not the PQ snobs that are arguing the point. The people that don't care about PQ keep bringing it up and arguing about it.

 

Jaydog, I just perused through a few pages of this thread and you have argued with sacentaur, spiderphil,namisgr, and me about PQ. You keep pounding away, not us.

[Jaydogrules]

Add me to the club as well! Didn't want to lay out too much for this one, but couldn't resist given the intangibles...

 

 

 

That is such a fresh and crisp looking, white-paged copy!

 

Best 6.0 I've ever seen. The flaws must be on the back cover?

 

I'd trade my 6.5 for it any day of the week.

 

I predict a top spine split is what hurt the grade so severely. That's my guess.

 

If I had nothing else but this photo to look at, I'd guess 8.0 - 8.5.

 

+1

 

His 6.0 looks better than some 7.0+ copies I've seen.

 

-J.

[namisgr]

Dan- you have an awesome book, great presenter for the grade. You also got a splendid deal on it, regardless of the so-called "PQ" on the label. I only post this recent ebay result as a demonstration of my counter point, since your book has been sought to be used as anecdotal evidence by another poster for their point.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Strange-Tales-110-CGC-6-0-1st-Dr-Strange-/141230026995?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item20e1f730f3&nma=true&si=T6Np1tB5%252FZYDnmTPautXEt6zbyY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

-J.

 

The comic in your link with off-white pages is listed with a buy it now price, but it isn't an example of a comic with lesser page quality selling for what a white pager just went for.

[Silver Surfer]

Hey all --

 

Add me to the club as well! Didn't want to lay out too much for this one, but couldn't resist given the intangibles...

 

 

Awesome copies recently as well -- congrats!

 

Dan

 

Dan that's a beauty!

[Jaydogrules]

Dan- you have an awesome book, great presenter for the grade. You also got a splendid deal on it, regardless of the so-called "PQ" on the label. I only post this recent ebay result as a demonstration of my counter point, since your book has been sought to be used as anecdotal evidence by another poster for their point.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Strange-Tales-110-CGC-6-0-1st-Dr-Strange-/141230026995?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item20e1f730f3&nma=true&si=T6Np1tB5%252FZYDnmTPautXEt6zbyY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

-J.

 

The comic in your link with off-white pages is listed with a buy it now price, but it isn't an example of a comic with lesser page quality selling for what a white pager just went for.

 

It certainly is. The "sold for" price was $2650. Actually $150 more than what Dan subsequently paid for his copy in the same grade with "white pages".

 

-J.

[Bomber-Bob]

 

It certainly is. The "sold for" price was $2650. Actually $150 more than what Dan subsequently paid for his copy in the same grade with "white pages".

 

-J.

 

You are correct, this specific book set a high water mark for a 6.0 . I suspect there was more at play = pressable flaws in the notes. The purchase price was based more on potential than the present state of the book. Perhaps we should qualify our page quality comments to the following...

Collectors will pay more for a White Pager. Flippers will not.

Edited July 21, 2014 by bomber-bob