Okajima pedigree 25 25

[path4play]

On 6/3/2022 at 6:13 PM, sfcityduck said:

Jeff,

Just read it.  An interesting read!  I'm glad your contributions were recognized.

My main takeaway is that It is sad that no asked Bette about the books before she sustained her memory loss.  We'll all have to speculate on what the true story was.  

One thing lept out at me: "On Oct. 17, 1943, she left George and her mother behind to reunite with Frances, who had gotten married in camp to Frank Kataoka and been released to Chicago."

Are there any books with so-called camp markings which post-date October 1943?  I've always thought that the collection likely included books bought by or for her brother.  If there are "camp markings" after that date, this may prove it.

 

 

There are about 12 signed/dated/and or numbered prior to that date, 85 after.  Seems she moved the small collection with her and continued to sign/date/and or number the majority the collection post camp in Chicago.

Edited June 5, 2022 by path4play

[Tri-Color Brian]

Am I just late to the party?  When did the info surface that she just died last year?  I was always under the impression that the collection was bought after her death in the 90s.  This is mind blowing...

[comicnoir]

That's my Master 51 featured on the website, obviously taken from here.

[skypinkblu]

On 6/5/2022 at 11:42 PM, comicnoir said:

That's my Master 51 featured on the website, obviously taken from here.

Two of my books are on there, too. I don't recall anyone asking, but it says anonymous, so perhaps it was a while ago and I don't remember.

[skypinkblu]

On 6/3/2022 at 6:13 PM, sfcityduck said:

Are there any books with so-called camp markings which post-date October 1943?  I've always thought that the collection likely included books bought by or for her brother.  If there are "camp markings" after that date, this may prove it.

 

[skypinkblu]

and this just ended on eBay tonight...it's not mine, but it's after 43

https://www.ebay.com/itm/363834212785?nma=true&si=8q4faD7v90uLqyvIG%2BEapgB4BO8%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

[skypinkblu]

I just looked at the dates for the books on the website, they are almost all in 1944. @sfcityduck

[comicnoir]

On 6/6/2022 at 12:03 AM, skypinkblu said:

and this just ended on eBay tonight...it's not mine, but it's after 43

https://www.ebay.com/itm/363834212785?nma=true&si=8q4faD7v90uLqyvIG%2BEapgB4BO8%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Whoa!

[comicnoir]

Here's mine. I seem to recall getting something about the website years ago, maybe asking permission, I don't remember.

[sfcityduck]

On 6/5/2022 at 8:00 PM, Tri-ColorBrian said:

Am I just late to the party?  When did the info surface that she just died last year?  I was always under the impression that the collection was bought after her death in the 90s.  This is mind blowing...

I don't think it was general knowledge, but she did not die until during the pandemic. She did, as 50 objects revealed, lose most of her memory and so no one got her story on the comics.

[Tri-Color Brian]

On 6/5/2022 at 10:51 PM, sfcityduck said:

I don't think it was general knowledge, but she did not die until during the pandemic. She did, as 50 objects revealed, lose most of her memory and so no one got her story on the comics.

Thanks.  Wow.  So, the article says she left the camp in 1943.  I don't remember the date, if I read it.  Could it be that she didn't even buy any of the comics in the camp, but instead, started purchasing them in Chicago or Sacramento?  Are there any issues with dates that coincide with when she was in the camp?  If she didn't buy the comics in the camp, what does that do to the pedigree story and significance of the collection?

BTW, my only Okajima is no longer visible in this thread...so here it is again...

 

Edited June 6, 2022 by Tri-ColorBrian

[jpepx78]

Hi

Thanks for the interest in the story. I did receive permission for all scans and asked how people wanted to be credited. Some of you may not remember since I asked and received permission about 4 years ago.

There are public records showing the exact dates when Bette and her brother George entered and left the internment camp and where they went. Bette left camp on October 19 1943 for Chicago to join her sister Frances and brother-in-law. George left camp on May 5 1944 for Keenesburg Colorado to a work camp and then enlisted in the army on August 16 1945. Bette married and lived in Sacramento California beginning in February 1946 until the death of her husband in 1956 and then moved back to her hometown in Sanger California. It puzzled me on how some of the signed Okajimas were in high grade and it seemed unlikely that they would stay in that condition due the to the harsh living conditions in the Arizona desert. The Okajimas bought in camp are noticeably in lower grade. So I believe there are several types of Okajimas, 2 signed and one unsigned (maybe another subset of the unsigned- with date markings and without). I would designate them as signed camp Okajimas, signed Chicago Okajimas and Sacramento Okajimas. The end of the collection coincides with the death of Bette’s husband.

There was a question of whether the books belonged to the brother George. All the signed books appear to be signed by the same person. Examples of Bette’s and George’s signatures were found and the signatures on the books matches Bette’s signature and handwriting. I believe signing one’s name on an item would designate ownership.

There is still the mystery of the codes on the covers and why the signatures stopped. Unfortunately we were not able to interview Bette before she passed. I’m guessing the codes were some kind of filing system.

 

[Tri-Color Brian]

On 6/5/2022 at 11:01 PM, jpepx78 said:

Hi

Thanks for the interest in the story. I did receive permission for all scans and asked how people wanted to be credited. Some of you may not remember since I asked and received permission about 4 years ago.

There are public records showing the exact dates when Bette and her brother George entered and left the internment camp and where they went. Bette left camp on October 19 1943 for Chicago to join her sister Frances and brother-in-law. George left camp on May 5 1944 for Keenesburg Colorado to a work camp and then enlisted in the army on August 16 1945. Bette married and lived in Sacramento California beginning in February 1946 until the death of her husband in 1956 and then moved back to her hometown in Sanger California. It puzzled me on how some of the signed Okajimas were in high grade and it seemed unlikely that they would stay in that condition due the to the harsh living conditions in the Arizona desert. The Okajimas bought in camp are noticeably in lower grade. So I believe there are several types of Okajimas, 2 signed and one unsigned (maybe another subset of the unsigned- with date markings and without). I would designate them as signed camp Okajimas, signed Chicago Okajimas and Sacramento Okajimas. The end of the collection coincides with the death of Bette’s husband.

There was a question of whether the books belonged to the brother George. All the signed books appear to be signed by the same person. Examples of Bette’s and George’s signatures were found and the signatures on the books matches Bette’s signature and handwriting. I believe signing one’s name on an item would designate ownership.

There is still the mystery of the codes on the covers and why the signatures stopped. Unfortunately we were not able to interview Bette before she passed. I’m guessing the codes were some kind of filing system.

 

Great information.  How many books are known from the time she was in the camp?

[sfcityduck]

On 6/5/2022 at 9:09 PM, skypinkblu said:

I just looked at the dates for the books on the website, they are almost all in 1944. @sfcityduck

I think almost all or all of the books which folks have thought were "camp markings" post-date October 1943.  To be clear, if you read my posts starting on 1/9/2014 on this thread, I thought the brother was always a candidate for the OO. Moreover, I am aware of one book that seems almost indisputably a camp book which post-dates October 1943. So maybe those codes were in fact camp markings, not marking put on by the OO in Chicago. So again, I'm thinking the OO was the brother not the oldest sister. I think they were camp books. I just don't think the OO was the oldest sister. I'm not a big fan of "handwriting similarity" as evidence. Kids were all taught to write the same way. 

Having said that, I admit that I can be wrong. It took me three guesses to get the frigging Promise OO's right. So I'd love to know what others think.

I think Jpep and 50 Objects did a lot of great research, especially the stuff about the penpals which was fasicnating and cool, but I think the jury is still out on the mystery of this pedigree. The one thing I hope we all agree on, is that this pedigree did a huge service to comic collectors by letting us know about the history of the Japanese internment that many would not otherwise know. Jpep's thread is one of the best posted on this site.

It's a shame the oldest sister lost her facilities before anyone could interview her. She was the last of the kids. The younger brother and sister who were in the camps died earlier.

 

 

[jpepx78]

On 6/5/2022 at 11:05 PM, Tri-ColorBrian said:

Great information.  How many books are known from the time she was in the camp?

It is unknown how many books Bette bought in camp since some books may be in collections that have not changed hands since the original purchase of the collection. We only know of a handful of books from the compiled list on the forums that were on the newsstand before Bette left camp on 10/19/43.

 

Edited June 6, 2022 by jpepx78

[sfcityduck]

This is the book that needs to be explained away if you think the post October 1943 books are not camp books:

[Tri-Color Brian]

On 6/5/2022 at 11:21 PM, sfcityduck said:

This is the book that needs to be explained away if you think the post October 1943 books are not camp books:

The plot thickens...you are a true investigator...

It's looking like George might be the "real" Okajima comic collector.    Maybe HE sold them in 1995.  He died in 2003.  This just gets better and better.  Next we'll learn that Edgar Church didn't really buy his comics...

Edited June 6, 2022 by Tri-ColorBrian

[comicnoir]

On 6/6/2022 at 2:01 AM, jpepx78 said:

Hi

Thanks for the interest in the story. I did receive permission for all scans and asked how people wanted to be credited. Some of you may not remember since I asked and received permission about 4 years ago.

There are public records showing the exact dates when Bette and her brother George entered and left the internment camp and where they went. Bette left camp on October 19 1943 for Chicago to join her sister Frances and brother-in-law. George left camp on May 5 1944 for Keenesburg Colorado to a work camp and then enlisted in the army on August 16 1945. Bette married and lived in Sacramento California beginning in February 1946 until the death of her husband in 1956 and then moved back to her hometown in Sanger California. It puzzled me on how some of the signed Okajimas were in high grade and it seemed unlikely that they would stay in that condition due the to the harsh living conditions in the Arizona desert. The Okajimas bought in camp are noticeably in lower grade. So I believe there are several types of Okajimas, 2 signed and one unsigned (maybe another subset of the unsigned- with date markings and without). I would designate them as signed camp Okajimas, signed Chicago Okajimas and Sacramento Okajimas. The end of the collection coincides with the death of Bette’s husband.

There was a question of whether the books belonged to the brother George. All the signed books appear to be signed by the same person. Examples of Bette’s and George’s signatures were found and the signatures on the books matches Bette’s signature and handwriting. I believe signing one’s name on an item would designate ownership.

There is still the mystery of the codes on the covers and why the signatures stopped. Unfortunately we were not able to interview Bette before she passed. I’m guessing the codes were some kind of filing system.

 

I dug up your pm from 4 years ago and gave permission. I also asked to be credited.

[sfcityduck]

On 6/5/2022 at 11:32 PM, comicnoir said:

I dug up your pm from 4 years ago and gave permission. I also asked to be credited.

I hope we all appreciate what Jpepx78 has done on this topic. It's great work and he deserves our appreciation. He did not control 50 objects, and he has found great history and shared information that I (and I think everyone else) never knew. I give him full kudos, even if I do disagree with the ultimate theory (and again I've been wrong in the past) on who the OO really was.  And, to be clear, I was viewing the Bette camp as viable (because again, I'm wrong enough times I'm open the ideas of others) until I saw the info 50 Objects dug up on when she left the camp.

Edited June 6, 2022 by sfcityduck

[Tri-Color Brian]

I'm changing the name of the collection now to "The George Yasuo Okajima Pedigree".  You heard it here first...