Heritage

[jjonahjameson1]

I'm about as big a fan as anyone when it comes to the Simonson Thor run but IMO that page was very blah in terms of action scenes and the price is just outrageous. I know Simonson is hoarding all his stuff from his run so I'm sure that had more to do with the astronomical price point than anything else but if that page comes to market again I think if they fetch a third of this price they will be lucky. Maybe this will get Walt's attention and the flood gates will open up?

 

Thank you for saying it. I don't think the price was high for a great thor panel page by Simonson but I just don't see that particular page as fitting the bill. There was a Simonson pencilled page auctioned in a non featured clink auction a few months ago that was won by donnellys and sold for only a few hundred I believe. It had great shots of the enchantress and executioner in battle and sold for like 1/10 the price of this page. IMO I like the composition of that page better even with no thor. Kicking myself for not bidding on it at the time. But no hard feelings to anybody, what do i know?

 

http://www.coollinesartwork.com/featured.asp?Piece=296187

 

Yeah, but on the other hand, you have the Simonson cover X-Factor #1 cover selling in the Heritage May auction for $33.5K, and it was inked by Rubinstein. So I suppose I'm having a bit of a hard time trying to follow the 'inkers impact on value' discussion here.

 

Ultimately, I track hundreds of lots in each clink auction, just to try to better understand the overall market for certain characters or artists' works. And I've come to realize that the more I think I know, the more I need to know to reinforce the results I'm seeing.

 

 

[jbud73]

Surprised there hasn't been any discussion on the following results:

 

1. Bissette Swamp Thing 29 cover = $20.3K

2. Sal Buscema Subby #28 cover = $6.5K, which is a bargoon compared to recent sales of Subby covers from the same era

 

3. Byrne IF #14 page (1st app Sabretooth) = $16K, is this low, high or just right?

4. Byrne X-Men pages between $4.7K - $6.6K. C-level pages are starting to get pricey!

 

5. Jim Davis Garfield Daily 10/1/83 = $5.1K. This is around 4 - 5x the average daily price. Why?

 

6. Crockett Johnson Barnaby daily = $9.6K. I suppose I was expecting this one to go a lot higher given its scarcity, but perhaps obscurity got in the way

 

7. Keown Hulk 369 unpublished cover = $1.7K. This one's mine and went for less than I paid for it 8 years ago. I thought it was a very strong cover.

 

8. Simonson Thor 348p20 = $3.5K. Kinda cheap considering so few are available, no?

 

9. Daniel Clowes Eightball 23 cover = $23.9K. Whaaaaat?

 

10. Sim Cerebus 185 splash = $2.3K...someone got a deal.

 

Hey Yoram +1, I will take a stab at a few of those.

 

The SOTST Cover was also attributed to Totleben. I don't know what it is but you put Totleben on something in the mid-80s = cash. This cover is more Bissette for sure and the image was just ok. The fact that it cracked 10K is but 20K ya talk amongst yourselves. Its considered the peak period by the peak team, but buy the image not the statistics

 

The Simonson page. Hey 3.5K for a Copper panel, I mean it was a good sequential panel, but at 3.5K which I thought was just right to a bit strong, I'm thinking, "one day Walt is going to cash out and I'm the dumb who spent 3.5K on a panel, when there are so many to choose from now."

 

 

Simonson with inks by someone other than Simonson results most of the time in a remarkably bland product, to the point where I don't even really count it as a Simonson page. So from my POV, the page did very well.

 

I'm asking here and maybe some people can weigh in on this; is there a sense that Walt's pencils were traditionally loose and that he really polished his art at the inking stage? This would lend itself to the inker being very important and self inked pieces being more desirable?

[Mephisto]

Ugh discussing this with you is hopeless. I tell you it's an illustration for a game for little kids and you wonder why the dolphin is anthropomorphic - kids - why the color palette is "happy" - kids - and why the shark isn't more menacing - kids?

 

I suppose you wonder why Uncle Scrooge doesn't look like a real duck?

 

Ill leave it to others to pick up or better yet drop the discussion, I dont have the energy to beat my head against your preconceptions. There's a lot of awful comic art out there, including by the big names, if you apply the filters you are applying to Boris but you seem to be determined to view everything he's ever done in a bad light.

 

So the painting has distinction because the artist did all the patronizing things you'd expect any mediocre hack to do to fulfill the assignment? You choose the strangest examples by the way. & for the zillionth time I AGREE some great artists have also done some cheesy stuff (like everything Neal Adams has done in the last couple of decades). IT HAS NO BEARING ON THE ARGUMENT.

 

I like how you complain that the examples he chose are strange when you are the one who insisted all of Boris' work is masturbatory cheese. You are either forgetting that Boris has worked in other genre's aside from fantasy art, or you are into bestiality and have a deep rooted desire to stuff a blow hole.

 

[drdroom]

Ugh discussing this with you is hopeless. I tell you it's an illustration for a game for little kids and you wonder why the dolphin is anthropomorphic - kids - why the color palette is "happy" - kids - and why the shark isn't more menacing - kids?

 

I suppose you wonder why Uncle Scrooge doesn't look like a real duck?

 

Ill leave it to others to pick up or better yet drop the discussion, I dont have the energy to beat my head against your preconceptions. There's a lot of awful comic art out there, including by the big names, if you apply the filters you are applying to Boris but you seem to be determined to view everything he's ever done in a bad light.

 

So the painting has distinction because the artist did all the patronizing things you'd expect any mediocre hack to do to fulfill the assignment? You choose the strangest examples by the way. & for the zillionth time I AGREE some great artists have also done some cheesy stuff (like everything Neal Adams has done in the last couple of decades). IT HAS NO BEARING ON THE ARGUMENT.

 

I like how you complain that the examples he chose are strange when you are the one who insisted all of Boris' work is masturbatory cheese. You are either forgetting that Boris has worked in other genre's aside from fantasy art, or you are into bestiality and have a deep rooted desire to stuff a blow hole.

 

[Bronty]

or you are into bestiality and have a deep rooted desire to stuff a blow hole.

 

 

 

I'll help you out, that's got to be a dolphin reference

 

i.e. who would consider a dolphin to be masturbatory?

 

Only someone with a deep desire to do unspeakable things

[drdroom]

Surprised there hasn't been any discussion on the following results:

 

1. Bissette Swamp Thing 29 cover = $20.3K

2. Sal Buscema Subby #28 cover = $6.5K, which is a bargoon compared to recent sales of Subby covers from the same era

 

3. Byrne IF #14 page (1st app Sabretooth) = $16K, is this low, high or just right?

4. Byrne X-Men pages between $4.7K - $6.6K. C-level pages are starting to get pricey!

 

5. Jim Davis Garfield Daily 10/1/83 = $5.1K. This is around 4 - 5x the average daily price. Why?

 

6. Crockett Johnson Barnaby daily = $9.6K. I suppose I was expecting this one to go a lot higher given its scarcity, but perhaps obscurity got in the way

 

7. Keown Hulk 369 unpublished cover = $1.7K. This one's mine and went for less than I paid for it 8 years ago. I thought it was a very strong cover.

 

8. Simonson Thor 348p20 = $3.5K. Kinda cheap considering so few are available, no?

 

9. Daniel Clowes Eightball 23 cover = $23.9K. Whaaaaat?

 

10. Sim Cerebus 185 splash = $2.3K...someone got a deal.

 

Hey Yoram +1, I will take a stab at a few of those.

 

The SOTST Cover was also attributed to Totleben. I don't know what it is but you put Totleben on something in the mid-80s = cash. This cover is more Bissette for sure and the image was just ok. The fact that it cracked 10K is but 20K ya talk amongst yourselves. Its considered the peak period by the peak team, but buy the image not the statistics

 

The Simonson page. Hey 3.5K for a Copper panel, I mean it was a good sequential panel, but at 3.5K which I thought was just right to a bit strong, I'm thinking, "one day Walt is going to cash out and I'm the dumb who spent 3.5K on a panel, when there are so many to choose from now."

 

 

Simonson with inks by someone other than Simonson results most of the time in a remarkably bland product, to the point where I don't even really count it as a Simonson page. So from my POV, the page did very well.

 

I'm asking here and maybe some people can weigh in on this; is there a sense that Walt's pencils were traditionally loose and that he really polished his art at the inking stage? This would lend itself to the inker being very important and self inked pieces being more desirable?

 

I don't know, but it would make sense to me. I never thought he found a truly complementary inker the way many of the greats did.

[drdroom]

or you are into bestiality and have a deep rooted desire to stuff a blow hole.

 

 

 

I'll help you out, that's got to be a dolphin reference

 

i.e. who would consider a dolphin to be masturbatory?

 

Only someone with a deep desire to do unspeakable things

 

Well, okay, but it would definitely be a Kirby dolphin, not a Boris dolphin.

[Bronty]

I dunno mang you might cut the wrong part of yourself on those hard kirby edges pm sent.

[Silver Surfer]

Maybe this will get Walt's attention and the flood gates will open up?

 

I think Walter has a good idea of what his art is worth. The amount of money he has turned down is staggering.

 

Would love to hear some stories!

[drdroom]

So the painting has distinction because the artist did all the patronizing things you'd expect any mediocre hack to do to fulfill the assignment?

 

Did you play the game? Have you looked up what the game was like? The painting actually gives you the correct feel for the game. This is not fine art, it's work for hire and I believe he did exactly what the company asked for. We're not debating the merits of a fine art painting here. By now I think you know that and just keep it up to defend your original point.

 

 

I'm making an argument about whether an artist is good enough that the work transcends its original use as packaging and is worthy of collecting and preserving.

 

I'm not going to get dragged into this further but I will comment on this one specific point to help you better understand the differences in our positions. In my view it doesn't need to transcend its original use to be worthy of collecting and preserving. MOST comic art very much does not transcend its original use. People do not pay $$$$$ for romita spideys because they "transcend." Spare me. They pay $$$$$ for them because its their childhood artist on their childhood favorite character. No more no less.

 

I agree, more or less, on Romita. So, are you and I allowed to think Romita is not a very good artist? Or do we have to say he is very good because he very much accomplished the professional goals expected of him? Further, if both Romita and Boris are pros who get the job done successfully, are they then equal? Is it possible to prefer one to the other, on the basis of qualities within their artwork? Or is it unfair to judge their artistry, because they are only trying to sell some magazines and games?

[Bronty]

I'm just presenting a different context for you to view their work in. Because had I not given you any context I can only imagine what you would have thought of the dolphin painting, no?

 

I'm suggesting that its not all "masturbatory cheese" and that some of it has merit, particularly when viewed in the right context. I've never suggested he was above criticism (far from it, I've made it clear that I critique some of it myself). What I objected to was the blanket statement that its all garbage; its not. There is good work in there along with the bad.

 

Whether its better or worse than this artist or that artist, that's a whole other (and far more subjective) debate.

[Nexus]

Surprised there hasn't been any discussion on the following results:

 

1. Bissette Swamp Thing 29 cover = $20.3K

2. Sal Buscema Subby #28 cover = $6.5K, which is a bargoon compared to recent sales of Subby covers from the same era

 

3. Byrne IF #14 page (1st app Sabretooth) = $16K, is this low, high or just right?

4. Byrne X-Men pages between $4.7K - $6.6K. C-level pages are starting to get pricey!

 

5. Jim Davis Garfield Daily 10/1/83 = $5.1K. This is around 4 - 5x the average daily price. Why?

 

6. Crockett Johnson Barnaby daily = $9.6K. I suppose I was expecting this one to go a lot higher given its scarcity, but perhaps obscurity got in the way

 

7. Keown Hulk 369 unpublished cover = $1.7K. This one's mine and went for less than I paid for it 8 years ago. I thought it was a very strong cover.

 

8. Simonson Thor 348p20 = $3.5K. Kinda cheap considering so few are available, no?

 

9. Daniel Clowes Eightball 23 cover = $23.9K. Whaaaaat?

 

10. Sim Cerebus 185 splash = $2.3K...someone got a deal.

 

Hey Yoram +1, I will take a stab at a few of those.

 

The SOTST Cover was also attributed to Totleben. I don't know what it is but you put Totleben on something in the mid-80s = cash. This cover is more Bissette for sure and the image was just ok. The fact that it cracked 10K is but 20K ya talk amongst yourselves. Its considered the peak period by the peak team, but buy the image not the statistics

 

The Simonson page. Hey 3.5K for a Copper panel, I mean it was a good sequential panel, but at 3.5K which I thought was just right to a bit strong, I'm thinking, "one day Walt is going to cash out and I'm the dumb who spent 3.5K on a panel, when there are so many to choose from now."

 

 

Simonson with inks by someone other than Simonson results most of the time in a remarkably bland product, to the point where I don't even really count it as a Simonson page. So from my POV, the page did very well.

 

I'm asking here and maybe some people can weigh in on this; is there a sense that Walt's pencils were traditionally loose and that he really polished his art at the inking stage? This would lend itself to the inker being very important and self inked pieces being more desirable?

 

I don't know, but it would make sense to me. I never thought he found a truly complementary inker the way many of the greats did.

 

Terry Austin worked well with Walt.

[Bronty]

Terry worked well with everybody!

[Nexus]

Maybe this will get Walt's attention and the flood gates will open up?

 

I think Walter has a good idea of what his art is worth. The amount of money he has turned down is staggering.

 

Would love to hear some stories!

 

He's acutely aware of what his art is worth to collectors. He's been very consistent in saying that he will bequeath his art to his alma mater, RISD. Unless he changes his mind, what's already out there is as good as it gets. After that, wait for the RISD fundraiser.

 

 

[Nexus]

Terry worked well with everybody!

 

Yup...Terry is to pencillers what bacon is to cooking.

[batman_fan]

Terry worked well with everybody!

 

Yup...Terry is to pencillers what bacon is to cooking.

 

Need to remember to write down that analogy.

[alxjhnsn]

Terry worked well with everybody!

 

Yup...Terry is to pencillers what bacon is to cooking.

 

Excellent analogy!

[malvin]

Hi Folks,

 

I'm happy to report that my issue with HA is resolved. to recap (with details)

 

I was going to bid on this:

 

NSFW Silke Bettie Page page

 

when it came on, I go click bid.

 

However, the previous piece suddenly returned (due to a late bid) and it showed up as I was going to click:

 

Sienkiewicz Elektra Page

 

I didn't stop in time and my one bid ended up winning it.

 

I was so flustered that I did not win the Silke page, but fortunately won another one.

 

Anyways, HA let me 'return' it, so if you wonder why that Elektra page shows up next auction (assuming the person who was the underbidder doesn't get it) you know why!

 

Malvin.

[disruptive_one]

 

Already working on it (thumbs u

 

Picked up some "fresh to market" pieces that will blow some minds

Nice Romita Jr cover.

Hi Folks,

 

I'm happy to report that my issue with HA is resolved. to recap (with details)

 

I was going to bid on this:

 

NSFW Silke Bettie Page page

 

when it came on, I go click bid.

 

However, the previous piece suddenly returned (due to a late bid) and it showed up as I was going to click:

 

Sienkiewicz Elektra Page

 

I didn't stop in time and my one bid ended up winning it.

 

I was so flustered that I did not win the Silke page, but fortunately won another one.

 

Anyways, HA let me 'return' it, so if you wonder why that Elektra page shows up next auction (assuming the person who was the underbidder doesn't get it) you know why!

 

Malvin.

See dude? You were worried about nothing. Heritage came through.

[Bird]

Heritage came through but the seller of that Silke page could have seen it go much higher since Malvin was bidding all that cash. Great taste Malvin, even when you don't even mean to win, and great taste on stuff you don't win! In other words, I liked that Silke page and Sienkiewicz always rocks the house for me as well.