Early Appearance of Harley Quinn? 0

[Solar]

Waitaminnit. I re-read my original post and realize no correction is necessary. There is a distinct timing difference best wee publication date and distribution date.

 

My point is that with the Goon character, Dreamwalker 0 was published after Avatar Illustrated 1998, but because Dreamwalker 0 hit the general public first, it was deemed The Goon's first appearance.

 

If someone can prove that "Almost Got 'Im" hit the shelves before BA 12, it could create a similar perception that "Almost Got 'Im" is in fact the first Harley Quinn (in comic form).

 

Hope I clarified my original statement!

 

Meckler

 

I don't purport to know the answer, but I am pretty sure that "publication" in a copyright filing need not be the day a book hit the stands, thought it can be:

 

“Publication” is the distribution of copies or phonorecords

of a work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership,

or by rental, lease, or lending. The offering to distribute

copies or phonorecords to a group of persons for purposes

of further distribution, public performance, or public

display constitutes publication.

 

Under this definition (from the copyright office) "publication" also means that merely OFFERING the work for sale for further distribution to the public can be considered publication. So, in this case when shops got Previews? Dunno how the tape/combo would be sold to stores (and I am assuming this doesn't mean "offering" to the distributor..but it might?)

 

So now we don't have a clear cut answer as to what hit the shelves first.

 

 

The book/cassette combo looks like a toy store package (with the hang tab and blister pack, etc.). If that's the case I'm not sure you'd ever find out the exact shelf date as I'm not sure there would have been a hard and fast "release date" like there is with periodicals (and if there is, does anyone keep track 20 years later?).

 

I mean if the 'publication date' is a week apart (favoring BA12) then, without hard and fast evidence, it's a tie at best. And in this situation, a tie definitely favors the book that more cleanly fits the hobby's commonly accepted definitions of 'comic book' and 'first appearance.'

[rjrjr]

Waitaminnit. I re-read my original post and realize no correction is necessary. There is a distinct timing difference best wee publication date and distribution date.

 

My point is that with the Goon character, Dreamwalker 0 was published after Avatar Illustrated 1998, but because Dreamwalker 0 hit the general public first, it was deemed The Goon's first appearance.

 

If someone can prove that "Almost Got 'Im" hit the shelves before BA 12, it could create a similar perception that "Almost Got 'Im" is in fact the first Harley Quinn (in comic form).

 

Hope I clarified my original statement!

 

Meckler

 

I don't purport to know the answer, but I am pretty sure that "publication" in a copyright filing need not be the day a book hit the stands, thought it can be:

 

“Publication” is the distribution of copies or phonorecords

of a work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership,

or by rental, lease, or lending. The offering to distribute

copies or phonorecords to a group of persons for purposes

of further distribution, public performance, or public

display constitutes publication.

 

Under this definition (from the copyright office) "publication" also means that merely OFFERING the work for sale for further distribution to the public can be considered publication. So, in this case when shops got Previews? Dunno how the tape/combo would be sold to stores (and I am assuming this doesn't mean "offering" to the distributor..but it might?)

 

So now we don't have a clear cut answer as to what hit the shelves first.

 

 

The book/cassette combo looks like a toy store package (with the hang tab and blister pack, etc.). If that's the case I'm not sure you'd ever find out the exact shelf date as I'm not sure there would have been a hard and fast "release date" like there is with periodicals (and if there is, does anyone keep track 20 years later?).

 

I mean if the 'publication date' is a week apart (favoring BA12) then, without hard and fast evidence, it's a tie at best. And in this situation, a tie definitely favors the book that more cleanly fits the hobby's commonly accepted definitions of 'comic book' and 'first appearance.'

 

 

The only way to know absolutely is if someone somewhere has a receipt for a purchase of the book/tape combo. Nobody has an anecdotal story about wanting a bike for a birthday and being disappointed with receiving this book/tape instead way back in 1993?

 

I question the date in the US Copyright filing's because the BA 12 cover date does not correspond correctly with the filing's date. I'm pretty sure a comic with a September 1993 cover date will have been published in June or July of 1993, not August 1993 like the filing shows. Even today, DCs cover dates are 2 or 3 months off from the release dates. Unfortunately the monthly sales data on http://www.comichron.com doesn't reach back to 1993.

 

Still, if BA 12 was on sale in June or July, it does increase the likelihood it pre-dates the sale of the book/tape combo.

 

[Junkdrawer]

This uprising has been quelled

[Mike's Rack]

This uprising has been quelled

I still favor the Ross one shot

[the authority]

This uprising has been quelled

I still favor the Ross one shot

 

+1

 

...but I am very happy for all of you who own Batman Adventures 12. You guys are cleaning up (thumbs u

[rjrjr]

Waitaminnit. I re-read my original post and realize no correction is necessary. There is a distinct timing difference best wee publication date and distribution date.

 

My point is that with the Goon character, Dreamwalker 0 was published after Avatar Illustrated 1998, but because Dreamwalker 0 hit the general public first, it was deemed The Goon's first appearance.

 

If someone can prove that "Almost Got 'Im" hit the shelves before BA 12, it could create a similar perception that "Almost Got 'Im" is in fact the first Harley Quinn (in comic form).

 

Hope I clarified my original statement!

 

Meckler

 

I don't purport to know the answer, but I am pretty sure that "publication" in a copyright filing need not be the day a book hit the stands, thought it can be:

 

“Publication” is the distribution of copies or phonorecords

of a work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership,

or by rental, lease, or lending. The offering to distribute

copies or phonorecords to a group of persons for purposes

of further distribution, public performance, or public

display constitutes publication.

 

Under this definition (from the copyright office) "publication" also means that merely OFFERING the work for sale for further distribution to the public can be considered publication. So, in this case when shops got Previews? Dunno how the tape/combo would be sold to stores (and I am assuming this doesn't mean "offering" to the distributor..but it might?)

 

So now we don't have a clear cut answer as to what hit the shelves first.

 

 

The book/cassette combo looks like a toy store package (with the hang tab and blister pack, etc.). If that's the case I'm not sure you'd ever find out the exact shelf date as I'm not sure there would have been a hard and fast "release date" like there is with periodicals (and if there is, does anyone keep track 20 years later?).

 

I mean if the 'publication date' is a week apart (favoring BA12) then, without hard and fast evidence, it's a tie at best. And in this situation, a tie definitely favors the book that more cleanly fits the hobby's commonly accepted definitions of 'comic book' and 'first appearance.'

 

 

The only way to know absolutely is if someone somewhere has a receipt for a purchase of the book/tape combo. Nobody has an anecdotal story about wanting a bike for a birthday and being disappointed with receiving this book/tape instead way back in 1993?

 

I question the date in the US Copyright filing's because the BA 12 cover date does not correspond correctly with the filing's date. I'm pretty sure a comic with a September 1993 cover date will have been published in June or July of 1993, not August 1993 like the filing shows. Even today, DCs cover dates are 2 or 3 months off from the release dates. Unfortunately the monthly sales data on http://www.comichron.com doesn't reach back to 1993.

 

Still, if BA 12 was on sale in June or July, it does increase the likelihood it pre-dates the sale of the book/tape combo.

 

 

I think it is safe to say Batman Adventures 12 came out in July 1993. Batman 30 was released in January 1995 according to Comichron. Working backwards from January 1995 we get:

 

Batman Adventures 30 Jan 1995

Batman Adventures 29 Dec 1994

Batman Adventures 28 Nov 1994

Batman Adventures 27 Oct 1994

Batman Adventures 26 Sep 1994

Batman Adventures 25 Aug 1994

Batman Adventures 24 Jul 1994

Batman Adventures 23 Jun 1994

Batman Adventures 22 May 1994

Batman Adventures 21 Apr 1994

Batman Adventures 20 Mar 1994

Batman Adventures 19 Feb 1994

Batman Adventures 18 Jan 1994

Batman Adventures 17 Dec 1993

Batman Adventures 16 Nov 1993

Batman Adventures 15 Oct 1993

Batman Adventures 14 Sep 1993

Batman Adventures 13 Aug 1993

Batman Adventures 12 Jul 1993

 

 

The July 1993 date makes sense for a comic with a cover date of September 1993. This just means the Copyright date is wrong. And if it is wrong for BA 12, it is probably wrong for the "Almost Got 'Im" book/tape combo.

 

Edited November 7, 2013 by rjrjr

[rjrjr]

Waitaminnit. I re-read my original post and realize no correction is necessary. There is a distinct timing difference best wee publication date and distribution date.

 

My point is that with the Goon character, Dreamwalker 0 was published after Avatar Illustrated 1998, but because Dreamwalker 0 hit the general public first, it was deemed The Goon's first appearance.

 

If someone can prove that "Almost Got 'Im" hit the shelves before BA 12, it could create a similar perception that "Almost Got 'Im" is in fact the first Harley Quinn (in comic form).

 

Hope I clarified my original statement!

 

Meckler

 

I don't purport to know the answer, but I am pretty sure that "publication" in a copyright filing need not be the day a book hit the stands, thought it can be:

 

“Publication” is the distribution of copies or phonorecords

of a work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership,

or by rental, lease, or lending. The offering to distribute

copies or phonorecords to a group of persons for purposes

of further distribution, public performance, or public

display constitutes publication.

 

Under this definition (from the copyright office) "publication" also means that merely OFFERING the work for sale for further distribution to the public can be considered publication. So, in this case when shops got Previews? Dunno how the tape/combo would be sold to stores (and I am assuming this doesn't mean "offering" to the distributor..but it might?)

 

So now we don't have a clear cut answer as to what hit the shelves first.

 

 

 

Well, this thread has been nothing if not informative. I just read through some of the Copyright Basics found on the http://www.copyright.gov/ website. From the section titled "Copyright Registration":

 

"In general, copyright registration is a legal formality intended to make a public record of the basic facts of a particular copy­right. However, registration is not a condition of copyright protection. Even though registration is not a requirement for protection, the copyright law provides several inducements or advantages to encourage copyright owners to make regis­tration. Among these advantages are the following:

• Registration establishes a public record of the copyright claim.

• Before an infringement suit may be filed in court, regis­tration is necessary for works of U. S. origin.

• If made before or within five years of publication, regis­tration will establish prima facie evidence in court of the validity of the copyright and of the facts stated in the certificate.

• If registration is made within three months after publica­tion of the work or prior to an infringement of the work, statutory damages and attorney’s fees will be available to the copyright owner in court actions. Otherwise, only an award of actual damages and profits is available to the copyright owner.

• Registration allows the owner of the copyright to record the registration with the U. S. Customs Service for pro­tection against the importation of infringing copies. For additional information, go to the U. S. Customs and Border Protection website at www.cbp.gov/.

Registration may be made at any time within the life of the copyright. Unlike the law before 1978, when a work has been registered in unpublished form, it is not necessary to make another registration when the work becomes published, although the copyright owner may register the published edition, if desired."

 

To summarize, there are benefits to registering your copyright, but it is not mandatory. Depending on when you register, you are given different advantages (basically, the earlier you register, the more copyright protection you are afforded.) This corresponds with what I'm seeing as I lookup different comics found on Comichron's monthly lists and when they are "registered" and "published" in the Copyright registration database. Basically, I'm seeing as much as a 3 months difference in some "publish" dates in the Copyright registration database versus what Comichron is reporting (which is the data Diamond is reporting monthly.) Some of the "published" dates are spot on (month/year) with the Diamond dates and other dates are not.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think the Copyright registration database is a reliable source for knowing which book was published first. Meckler is correct that we don't know which came first.

Edited November 7, 2013 by rjrjr

[thedude]

I see someone already has posted one on eBay

 

that's not me guys, I swear!

[rjrjr]

Waitaminnit. I re-read my original post and realize no correction is necessary. There is a distinct timing difference best wee publication date and distribution date.

 

My point is that with the Goon character, Dreamwalker 0 was published after Avatar Illustrated 1998, but because Dreamwalker 0 hit the general public first, it was deemed The Goon's first appearance.

 

If someone can prove that "Almost Got 'Im" hit the shelves before BA 12, it could create a similar perception that "Almost Got 'Im" is in fact the first Harley Quinn (in comic form).

 

Hope I clarified my original statement!

 

Meckler

 

I don't purport to know the answer, but I am pretty sure that "publication" in a copyright filing need not be the day a book hit the stands, thought it can be:

 

“Publication” is the distribution of copies or phonorecords

of a work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership,

or by rental, lease, or lending. The offering to distribute

copies or phonorecords to a group of persons for purposes

of further distribution, public performance, or public

display constitutes publication.

 

Under this definition (from the copyright office) "publication" also means that merely OFFERING the work for sale for further distribution to the public can be considered publication. So, in this case when shops got Previews? Dunno how the tape/combo would be sold to stores (and I am assuming this doesn't mean "offering" to the distributor..but it might?)

 

So now we don't have a clear cut answer as to what hit the shelves first.

 

 

 

Well, this thread has been nothing if not informative. I just read through some of the Copyright Basics found on the http://www.copyright.gov/ website. From the section titled "Copyright Registration":

 

"In general, copyright registration is a legal formality intended to make a public record of the basic facts of a particular copy­right. However, registration is not a condition of copyright protection. Even though registration is not a requirement for protection, the copyright law provides several inducements or advantages to encourage copyright owners to make regis­tration. Among these advantages are the following:

• Registration establishes a public record of the copyright claim.

• Before an infringement suit may be filed in court, regis­tration is necessary for works of U. S. origin.

• If made before or within five years of publication, regis­tration will establish prima facie evidence in court of the validity of the copyright and of the facts stated in the certificate.

• If registration is made within three months after publica­tion of the work or prior to an infringement of the work, statutory damages and attorney’s fees will be available to the copyright owner in court actions. Otherwise, only an award of actual damages and profits is available to the copyright owner.

• Registration allows the owner of the copyright to record the registration with the U. S. Customs Service for pro­tection against the importation of infringing copies. For additional information, go to the U. S. Customs and Border Protection website at www.cbp.gov/.

Registration may be made at any time within the life of the copyright. Unlike the law before 1978, when a work has been registered in unpublished form, it is not necessary to make another registration when the work becomes published, although the copyright owner may register the published edition, if desired."

 

To summarize, there are benefits to registering your copyright, but it is not mandatory. Depending on when you register, you are given different advantages (basically, the earlier you register, the more copyright protection you are afforded.) This corresponds with what I'm seeing as I lookup different comics found on Comichron's monthly lists and when they are "registered" and "published" in the Copyright registration database. Basically, I'm seeing as much as a 3 months difference in some "publish" dates in the Copyright registration database versus what Comichron is reporting (which is the data Diamond is reporting monthly.) Some of the "published" dates are spot on (month/year) with the Diamond dates and other dates are not.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think the Copyright registration database is a reliable source for knowing which book was published first. Meckler is correct that we don't know which came first.

 

 

I'll use Batman Adventures 30 itself to illustrate the point about the Copyright registration database being unreliable. According to Diamond (from http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/1995/1995-01Diamond.html), Batman Adventures 30 was released in January 1995:

 

116 Batman Adventures 30 $1.50 DC 32.2

 

And, according to the Copyright registration database, we have:

 

Type of Work: Serial

Title: The Batman Adventures.

Serial Publication Year: 1995

Description: print material.

Frequency: Monthly.

Publication History: [No.] 1, Oct. 1992-

Copyright Claimant: DC Comics, Inc.

Issues Registered: no. 29, Feb95. Created 1994; Pub. 1995-01-03; Reg. 1995-01-25; TX0003977103

no. 30, Mar95. Created 1995; Pub. 1995-02-07; Reg. 1995-02-27; TX0003999859

no. 31, Apr95. Created 1995; Pub. 1995-03-07; Reg. 1995-03-27; TX0003843164

no. 32, Jun95. Created 1995; Pub. 1995-04-04; Reg. 1995-04-14; TX0004016765

no. 33, Jul95. Created 1995; Pub. 1995-05-02; Reg. 1995-05-19; TX0004044581

no. 34, Aug95. Created 1995; Pub. 1995-06-06; Reg. 1995-06-20; TX0004066705

no. 35, Sep95. Created 1995; Pub. 1995-07-04; Reg. 1995-07-25; TX0004076866

no. 36, Oct95. Created 1995; Pub. 1995-08-01; Reg. 1995-09-01; TX0004129262

Basis of Claim: New matter: additions.

 

Names: DC Comics, Inc.

 

So, the book was distributed in January 1995 according to Diamond, but was published in February 1995 according to the Copyright registration database. I've seen other books off by as much as 3 months in the Copyright registration database when compared to the Diamond charts.

 

Edited November 7, 2013 by rjrjr

[thedude]

so your saying we still don't know?

 

I would say it would be next to impossible to determine which book was on store shelves first.

 

if only I'd kept my receipt that day.

[ion comics]

Contacted the artist that did the pencils for Almost Got 'im...........yes, I know, I got a lot of time on my hands. Anyway, while he was not quite sure which book came out first, one thing he did say was interesting: (I am paraphrasing here, but basically) he said that she appeared in the animated show first, then on merchandise (which includes the Almost a Got 'Im book). It's possible that Paul Dini and Bruce Timm decided to (or were only able to) market the Harley Quinn character (in comic book format) first as a "merchandise" product (hence pairing the book with a cassette). Perhaps BA 12 was published slightly before Almost Got 'Im, but the latter hit the public (as a merchandise product, instead of a periodical) first.

 

What I'd really like to know is which rendering of Harley Quinn (in comic book form) came first.

 

Still digging.......stay tuned!

 

Meck

[divad]

Waitaminnit. I re-read my original post and realize no correction is necessary. There is a distinct timing difference best wee publication date and distribution date.

 

My point is that with the Goon character, Dreamwalker 0 was published after Avatar Illustrated 1998, but because Dreamwalker 0 hit the general public first, it was deemed The Goon's first appearance.

 

If someone can prove that "Almost Got 'Im" hit the shelves before BA 12, it could create a similar perception that "Almost Got 'Im" is in fact the first Harley Quinn (in comic form).

 

Hope I clarified my original statement!

 

Meckler

 

I don't purport to know the answer, but I am pretty sure that "publication" in a copyright filing need not be the day a book hit the stands, thought it can be:

 

“Publication” is the distribution of copies or phonorecords

of a work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership,

or by rental, lease, or lending. The offering to distribute

copies or phonorecords to a group of persons for purposes

of further distribution, public performance, or public

display constitutes publication.

 

Under this definition (from the copyright office) "publication" also means that merely OFFERING the work for sale for further distribution to the public can be considered publication. So, in this case when shops got Previews? Dunno how the tape/combo would be sold to stores (and I am assuming this doesn't mean "offering" to the distributor..but it might?)

 

So now we don't have a clear cut answer as to what hit the shelves first.

 

 

 

Well, this thread has been nothing if not informative. I just read through some of the Copyright Basics found on the http://www.copyright.gov/ website. From the section titled "Copyright Registration":

 

"In general, copyright registration is a legal formality intended to make a public record of the basic facts of a particular copy­right. However, registration is not a condition of copyright protection. Even though registration is not a requirement for protection, the copyright law provides several inducements or advantages to encourage copyright owners to make regis­tration. Among these advantages are the following:

• Registration establishes a public record of the copyright claim.

• Before an infringement suit may be filed in court, regis­tration is necessary for works of U. S. origin.

• If made before or within five years of publication, regis­tration will establish prima facie evidence in court of the validity of the copyright and of the facts stated in the certificate.

• If registration is made within three months after publica­tion of the work or prior to an infringement of the work, statutory damages and attorney’s fees will be available to the copyright owner in court actions. Otherwise, only an award of actual damages and profits is available to the copyright owner.

• Registration allows the owner of the copyright to record the registration with the U. S. Customs Service for pro­tection against the importation of infringing copies. For additional information, go to the U. S. Customs and Border Protection website at www.cbp.gov/.

Registration may be made at any time within the life of the copyright. Unlike the law before 1978, when a work has been registered in unpublished form, it is not necessary to make another registration when the work becomes published, although the copyright owner may register the published edition, if desired."

 

To summarize, there are benefits to registering your copyright, but it is not mandatory. Depending on when you register, you are given different advantages (basically, the earlier you register, the more copyright protection you are afforded.) This corresponds with what I'm seeing as I lookup different comics found on Comichron's monthly lists and when they are "registered" and "published" in the Copyright registration database. Basically, I'm seeing as much as a 3 months difference in some "publish" dates in the Copyright registration database versus what Comichron is reporting (which is the data Diamond is reporting monthly.) Some of the "published" dates are spot on (month/year) with the Diamond dates and other dates are not.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think the Copyright registration database is a reliable source for knowing which book was published first. Meckler is correct that we don't know which came first.

 

 

I'll use Batman Adventures 30 itself to illustrate the point about the Copyright registration database being unreliable. According to Diamond (from http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/1995/1995-01Diamond.html), Batman Adventures 30 was released in January 1995:

 

116 Batman Adventures 30 $1.50 DC 32.2

 

And, according to the Copyright registration database, we have:

 

Type of Work: Serial

Title: The Batman Adventures.

Serial Publication Year: 1995

Description: print material.

Frequency: Monthly.

Publication History: [No.] 1, Oct. 1992-

Copyright Claimant: DC Comics, Inc.

Issues Registered: no. 29, Feb95. Created 1994; Pub. 1995-01-03; Reg. 1995-01-25; TX0003977103

no. 30, Mar95. Created 1995; Pub. 1995-02-07; Reg. 1995-02-27; TX0003999859

no. 31, Apr95. Created 1995; Pub. 1995-03-07; Reg. 1995-03-27; TX0003843164

no. 32, Jun95. Created 1995; Pub. 1995-04-04; Reg. 1995-04-14; TX0004016765

no. 33, Jul95. Created 1995; Pub. 1995-05-02; Reg. 1995-05-19; TX0004044581

no. 34, Aug95. Created 1995; Pub. 1995-06-06; Reg. 1995-06-20; TX0004066705

no. 35, Sep95. Created 1995; Pub. 1995-07-04; Reg. 1995-07-25; TX0004076866

no. 36, Oct95. Created 1995; Pub. 1995-08-01; Reg. 1995-09-01; TX0004129262

Basis of Claim: New matter: additions.

 

Names: DC Comics, Inc.

 

So, the book was distributed in January 1995 according to Diamond, but was published in February 1995 according to the Copyright registration database. I've seen other books off by as much as 3 months in the Copyright registration database when compared to the Diamond charts.

 

No offense, but you're completely wrong on just about everything you have stated.

 

Comichron is not associated with Diamond in any way shape or form:

 

Domain Name: COMICHRON.COM

Registrar URL: http://www.godaddy.com

Updated Date: 2011-11-01 16:36:24

Creation Date: 2006-11-11 14:55:24

Registrar Expiration Date: 2013-11-11 14:55:24

Registrar: GoDaddy.com, LLC

Registrant Name: John Jackson Miller

Registrant Organization: Faraway Press

Registrant Street: P.O. Box 525

Registrant City: Waupaca

Registrant State/Province: Wisconsin

Registrant Postal Code: 54981

Registrant Country: United States

[divad]

Contacted the artist that did the pencils for Almost Got 'im...........yes, I know, I got a lot of time on my hands. Anyway, while he was not quite sure which book came out first, one thing he did say was interesting: (I am paraphrasing here, but basically) he said that she appeared in the animated show first, then on merchandise (which includes the Almost a Got 'Im book). It's possible that Paul Dini and Bruce Timm decided to (or were only able to) market the Harley Quinn character (in comic book format) first as a "merchandise" product (hence pairing the book with a cassette). Perhaps BA 12 was published slightly before Almost Got 'Im, but the latter hit the public (as a merchandise product, instead of a periodical) first.

 

What I'd really like to know is which rendering of Harley Quinn (in comic book form) came first.

 

Still digging.......stay tuned!

 

Meck

 

Now, Meck is on the right track.

[divad]

rj, you should evaluate the source of data before quoting it. Your wiki cite is a joke too.

[rjrjr]

Waitaminnit. I re-read my original post and realize no correction is necessary. There is a distinct timing difference best wee publication date and distribution date.

 

My point is that with the Goon character, Dreamwalker 0 was published after Avatar Illustrated 1998, but because Dreamwalker 0 hit the general public first, it was deemed The Goon's first appearance.

 

If someone can prove that "Almost Got 'Im" hit the shelves before BA 12, it could create a similar perception that "Almost Got 'Im" is in fact the first Harley Quinn (in comic form).

 

Hope I clarified my original statement!

 

Meckler

 

I don't purport to know the answer, but I am pretty sure that "publication" in a copyright filing need not be the day a book hit the stands, thought it can be:

 

“Publication” is the distribution of copies or phonorecords

of a work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership,

or by rental, lease, or lending. The offering to distribute

copies or phonorecords to a group of persons for purposes

of further distribution, public performance, or public

display constitutes publication.

 

Under this definition (from the copyright office) "publication" also means that merely OFFERING the work for sale for further distribution to the public can be considered publication. So, in this case when shops got Previews? Dunno how the tape/combo would be sold to stores (and I am assuming this doesn't mean "offering" to the distributor..but it might?)

 

So now we don't have a clear cut answer as to what hit the shelves first.

 

 

 

Well, this thread has been nothing if not informative. I just read through some of the Copyright Basics found on the http://www.copyright.gov/ website. From the section titled "Copyright Registration":

 

"In general, copyright registration is a legal formality intended to make a public record of the basic facts of a particular copy­right. However, registration is not a condition of copyright protection. Even though registration is not a requirement for protection, the copyright law provides several inducements or advantages to encourage copyright owners to make regis­tration. Among these advantages are the following:

• Registration establishes a public record of the copyright claim.

• Before an infringement suit may be filed in court, regis­tration is necessary for works of U. S. origin.

• If made before or within five years of publication, regis­tration will establish prima facie evidence in court of the validity of the copyright and of the facts stated in the certificate.

• If registration is made within three months after publica­tion of the work or prior to an infringement of the work, statutory damages and attorney’s fees will be available to the copyright owner in court actions. Otherwise, only an award of actual damages and profits is available to the copyright owner.

• Registration allows the owner of the copyright to record the registration with the U. S. Customs Service for pro­tection against the importation of infringing copies. For additional information, go to the U. S. Customs and Border Protection website at www.cbp.gov/.

Registration may be made at any time within the life of the copyright. Unlike the law before 1978, when a work has been registered in unpublished form, it is not necessary to make another registration when the work becomes published, although the copyright owner may register the published edition, if desired."

 

To summarize, there are benefits to registering your copyright, but it is not mandatory. Depending on when you register, you are given different advantages (basically, the earlier you register, the more copyright protection you are afforded.) This corresponds with what I'm seeing as I lookup different comics found on Comichron's monthly lists and when they are "registered" and "published" in the Copyright registration database. Basically, I'm seeing as much as a 3 months difference in some "publish" dates in the Copyright registration database versus what Comichron is reporting (which is the data Diamond is reporting monthly.) Some of the "published" dates are spot on (month/year) with the Diamond dates and other dates are not.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think the Copyright registration database is a reliable source for knowing which book was published first. Meckler is correct that we don't know which came first.

 

 

I'll use Batman Adventures 30 itself to illustrate the point about the Copyright registration database being unreliable. According to Diamond (from http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/1995/1995-01Diamond.html), Batman Adventures 30 was released in January 1995:

 

116 Batman Adventures 30 $1.50 DC 32.2

 

And, according to the Copyright registration database, we have:

 

Type of Work: Serial

Title: The Batman Adventures.

Serial Publication Year: 1995

Description: print material.

Frequency: Monthly.

Publication History: [No.] 1, Oct. 1992-

Copyright Claimant: DC Comics, Inc.

Issues Registered: no. 29, Feb95. Created 1994; Pub. 1995-01-03; Reg. 1995-01-25; TX0003977103

no. 30, Mar95. Created 1995; Pub. 1995-02-07; Reg. 1995-02-27; TX0003999859

no. 31, Apr95. Created 1995; Pub. 1995-03-07; Reg. 1995-03-27; TX0003843164

no. 32, Jun95. Created 1995; Pub. 1995-04-04; Reg. 1995-04-14; TX0004016765

no. 33, Jul95. Created 1995; Pub. 1995-05-02; Reg. 1995-05-19; TX0004044581

no. 34, Aug95. Created 1995; Pub. 1995-06-06; Reg. 1995-06-20; TX0004066705

no. 35, Sep95. Created 1995; Pub. 1995-07-04; Reg. 1995-07-25; TX0004076866

no. 36, Oct95. Created 1995; Pub. 1995-08-01; Reg. 1995-09-01; TX0004129262

Basis of Claim: New matter: additions.

 

Names: DC Comics, Inc.

 

So, the book was distributed in January 1995 according to Diamond, but was published in February 1995 according to the Copyright registration database. I've seen other books off by as much as 3 months in the Copyright registration database when compared to the Diamond charts.

 

No offense, but you're completely wrong on just about everything you have stated.

 

Comichron is not associated with Diamond in any way shape or form:

 

Domain Name: COMICHRON.COM

Registrar URL: http://www.godaddy.com

Updated Date: 2011-11-01 16:36:24

Creation Date: 2006-11-11 14:55:24

Registrar Expiration Date: 2013-11-11 14:55:24

Registrar: GoDaddy.com, LLC

Registrant Name: John Jackson Miller

Registrant Organization: Faraway Press

Registrant Street: P.O. Box 525

Registrant City: Waupaca

Registrant State/Province: Wisconsin

Registrant Postal Code: 54981

Registrant Country: United States

 

When did I ever say Comichron is associated with Diamond? Comichron has been publishing the Diamond top 300 every month for a while and has been a perennial go to site for these boards for quite some time. John Jackson Miller has done a tremendous amount of research on comic publishing numbers and estimates comic sales numbers monthly. His data goes back for years and his site has been a tremendous service for the comic collecting community.

 

[rjrjr]

rj, you should evaluate the source of data before quoting it. Your wiki cite is a joke too.

 

divad, what is your beef with me? That Wiki link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cover_date explains exactly what the cover date is and why it is a few months in the future of the release date. Seriously, I've cited my information and didn't throw out incorrect facts like "vendors could return any unsold book to the distributor after 30-days for full credit." If you read the Wiki link, Paul Levitz's book, 75 Years of DC Comics: The Art of Modern Mythmaking" is one of the entries sources. I think the former editor and president of DC knows a thing or 2 about why the cover date is what it is.

 

Where is your source for that "fact" you mentioned?

Edited November 7, 2013 by rjrjr

[ion comics]

Ruh-roh. It looks like its Scooby-Snack time!!!

[THB]

 

Its Friday on the boards!!!

[ion comics]

We were all getting along so well. Let's keep this train chuggin' until we get all our questions answered!

[jszczerman]

Speaking of early Harley Quinn appearances, anyone know what her 1st action figure is? Is it the 1997 Batman Adventures figure?