Early Appearance of Harley Quinn? 0

[rjrjr]

I agree Solar. I would say BA12 will probably always be the book but it used to play second fiddle to Batman Harley Quinn. I don't see any negatives to adding this book to the mix.

 

It makes for an interesting addition ala the Hellboy early appearances and the Goon early appearances.

 

So, if it is shown this comic is the earliest appearance of Harley Quinn in comics, does CGC change the verbiage on the slabs to reflect this in the future? Does it take someone sending in one of these comics with some sort of proof on publishing date in order for them to update the verbiage? The sticking point here will be that date. If this comic/tape combo was in stores prior to BA 12, then it is clearly the first comic with Harley Quinn's appearance. But how do you really prove that?

[rjrjr]

took mine out and took a few more pics of the interiors, Harley is on quite a few pages and has alot of dialogue, as it turns out I have two of these, one still sealed and this one which I opened. I think around that time I was buying two of alot of things, one to keep sealed and another to open as that's what I had heard toy collectors do. anyway, here's the pics.

 

 

It definitely looks like a comic book to me unlike some of those early He-Man mini-comics which are more text with accompanying picture.

 

So, how many pages does it have? 32

Are there ads in addition to the comic pages? NO

Who published it? Western Publishing Company Inc.

Does it credit the writer/artist/inker/etc.? YES (see pics below)

Does it have an indicia? YES (see pics below)

Publish date in the indicia? YES, it says 1993 (see pics below)

 

 

I'm still interested in hearing the detail about this comic.

 

 

your questions are answered above in bold.

 

here are some additional pics.

 

 

 

 

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

 

 

 

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here is a pic of the back of my sealed copy, the packaging that the book and tape are contained in.

 

 

 

 

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Thank you for providing this information and congratulations on such a cool find. The creators are all known comic creators, so I have no doubts this IS a comic book. And Western Publishing was a big time comic publisher at one time. It looks like Al Bigley did art for the Kenner BAS toys in addition to other BAS merchandise as well.

 

I happened to notice more of these tapes/comic books were published for the BAS TV series. Does anyone know if any of these other tapes/comic book combos have Harley Quinn appearances or is this the only one?

[thedude]

I agree Solar. I would say BA12 will probably always be the book but it used to play second fiddle to Batman Harley Quinn. I don't see any negatives to adding this book to the mix.

 

It makes for an interesting addition ala the Hellboy early appearances and the Goon early appearances.

 

So, if it is shown this comic is the earliest appearance of Harley Quinn in comics, does CGC change the verbiage on the slabs to reflect this in the future? Does it take someone sending in one of these comics with some sort of proof on publishing date in order for them to update the verbiage? The sticking point here will be that date. If this comic/tape combo was in stores prior to BA 12, then it is clearly the first comic with Harley Quinn's appearance. But how do you really prove that?

 

CGC stays inline with Overstreet in what they list on the labels. which I believe is because OS has for many years been considered the industry standard, However, OS just recently broke out BA12 as the first Harley when it's been common knowledge for years now, also, Overstreet lists Action Comics #29 as the first Lois Lane cover when it has been clearly proven that she is on the cover of Action #27 and we know that's her becuz on the inside story Lois is wearing the same yellow dress that she is on the cover, but Overstreet has not changed it in over 40 years, I even wonder if the girl falling on the cover of Action #23 is Lois, but that's hard to prove since the scene on the cover does not happen in the inside story.

 

my point being that once a common believe is agreed upon, it's very difficult to change opinions, but that's where you just have to use your own judgement.

 

if it could be proven that this book came out even a month or so earlier than BA12, then to me that's the first appearance, especially since it's not just a one panel cameo, and she has multiple pages with dialogue in the story. it doesn't really matter to me as I got my two copies for cover price back in the day and don't have a huge amount of $$ into them.

 

I can see why Overstreet doesn't want to change listings easily, at least until they have been proven, but no changes or very slow changes is one of the reasons I feel that they are becoming obsolete.

[thedude]

Thank you for providing this information and congratulations on such a cool find. The creators are all known comic creators, so I have no doubts this IS a comic book. And Western Publishing was a big time comic publisher at one time. It looks like Al Bigley did art for the Kenner BAS toys in addition to other BAS merchandise as well.

 

I happened to notice more of these tapes/comic books were published for the BAS TV series. Does anyone know if any of these other tapes/comic book combos have Harley Quinn appearances or is this the only one?

 

 

I have the other BTAS book/tape with Poison Ivy "Plants of Peril" I don't think Harley is in that one, but I will check.

[seanfingh]

 

That book is analogous to a Power Records book and record combo:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/190881740183?lpid=82

 

Are they collectible - Yes

Are they awesome - Yes

Are they comics - No

 

This Harley book may have legs, and I hope it does, but it is not a comic.

[rjrjr]

I agree Solar. I would say BA12 will probably always be the book but it used to play second fiddle to Batman Harley Quinn. I don't see any negatives to adding this book to the mix.

 

It makes for an interesting addition ala the Hellboy early appearances and the Goon early appearances.

 

So, if it is shown this comic is the earliest appearance of Harley Quinn in comics, does CGC change the verbiage on the slabs to reflect this in the future? Does it take someone sending in one of these comics with some sort of proof on publishing date in order for them to update the verbiage? The sticking point here will be that date. If this comic/tape combo was in stores prior to BA 12, then it is clearly the first comic with Harley Quinn's appearance. But how do you really prove that?

 

 

Some additional information for anyone that is interested, the "Almost Got 'Im" story in this comic book is an adaptation of the 46th episode of Batman: The Animated Series titled "Almost Got 'Im". This would be the 3rd episode with Harley Quinn, her first was "Joker's Favor" (episode 22) and "The Laughing Fish" (episode 34). "Almost Got 'Im" aired on November 10, 1992. The ISBN for the book is 978-0307143761.

 

AllBookstores.com lists the publishing date as April 1, 1993. Most online sites show the date as December 31, 1999 or just 1999 including Amazon. This cannot be correct unless there was a subsequent printing. (All indications are this date is just incorrect and there is no subsequent printings.) My guess is December 31, 1999 (the last day in the 1990s) is the date for a book without a concrete date published in the 1990s on Amazon's site and most other book sellers used Amazon's data.

 

Is there an authoritative source for publishing dates by ISBN?

[thedude]

I agree Solar. I would say BA12 will probably always be the book but it used to play second fiddle to Batman Harley Quinn. I don't see any negatives to adding this book to the mix.

 

It makes for an interesting addition ala the Hellboy early appearances and the Goon early appearances.

 

So, if it is shown this comic is the earliest appearance of Harley Quinn in comics, does CGC change the verbiage on the slabs to reflect this in the future? Does it take someone sending in one of these comics with some sort of proof on publishing date in order for them to update the verbiage? The sticking point here will be that date. If this comic/tape combo was in stores prior to BA 12, then it is clearly the first comic with Harley Quinn's appearance. But how do you really prove that?

 

 

Some additional information for anyone that is interested, the "Almost Got 'Im" story in this comic book is an adaptation of the 46th episode of Batman: The Animated Series titled "Almost Got 'Im". This would be the 3rd episode with Harley Quinn, her first was "Joker's Favor" (episode 22) and "The Laughing Fish" (episode 34). "Almost Got 'Im" aired on November 10, 1992. The ISBN for the book is 978-0307143761.

 

AllBookstores.com lists the publishing date as April 1, 1993. Most online sites show the date as December 31, 1999 or just 1999 including Amazon. This cannot be correct unless there was a subsequent printing. (All indications are this date is just incorrect and there is no subsequent printings.) My guess is December 31, 1999 (the last day in the 1990s) is the date for a book without a concrete date published in the 1990s on Amazon's site and most other book sellers used Amazon's data.

 

Is there an authoritative source for publishing dates by ISBN?

 

 

that's the first time I've seen an actual month date listed.

[rjrjr]

That book is analogous to a Power Records book and record combo:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/190881740183?lpid=82

 

Are they collectible - Yes

Are they awesome - Yes

Are they comics - No

 

This Harley book may have legs, and I hope it does, but it is not a comic.

 

I thought Power Records books were considered comic books? They are listed in my Oversteet Price Guide along with the other comic books. I wasn't aware of a controversy about that. It's interesting. Do others feel the Power Records books are not comic books?

[Mike's Rack]

That book is analogous to a Power Records book and record combo:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/190881740183?lpid=82

 

Are they collectible - Yes

Are they awesome - Yes

Are they comics - No

 

This Harley book may have legs, and I hope it does, but it is not a comic.

 

I thought Power Records books were considered comic books? They are listed in my Oversteet Price Guide along with the other comic books. I wasn't aware of a controversy about that. It's interesting. Do others feel the Power Records books are not comic books?

CGC considers them comics http://www.cgccomics.com/census/issues_bytitle.asp?title=Power+Record+Comics&publisher=D%2EC%2E+Comics

[Junkdrawer]

ISBN is for books and book like media. Comic books and other monthly magazines are not given ISBN numbers. Also pertaining to copyright dates, the date on the packaging is likely the date the copyright was applied for. I think it quite impossible to narrow any particular book down to its exact month produced and it's on shelf date. The board game is also dated 1993 and has Harley in a form of printed matter (a game piece) It could be argued that it was out before the book and record combo. Again a nice Harley collectible, but its media form is a book and not a comic book.

[N/A]

[ion comics]

Valid point, but it may be moot if CGC recognizes this "book" as a comic book and, therefore, eligible for grading. An acquaintance of mine made a great point about this book: If It is proven that this book indeed was published before BA 12 and CGC will grade it, then it probably won't matter if it's a considered a book or a comic book. CGC could open the door to the "speculator" crowd. If CGC does not accept this book, then I personally think only Harley Quinn completists will really care about it and BA 12 will be perceived in the comic world as Harley Quinn's first comic appearance.

 

This of course is just my (and my friend's) opinion.

 

Time will tell.

 

 

Meck

[Pete Marino]

Valid point, but it may be moot if CGC recognizes this "book" as a comic book and, therefore, eligible for grading. An acquaintance of mine made a great point about this book: If It is proven that this book indeed was published before BA 12 and CGC will grade it, then it probably won't matter if it's a considered a book or a comic book. CGC could open the door to the "speculator" crowd. If CGC does not accept this book, then I personally think only Harley Quinn completists will really care about it and BA 12 will be perceived in the comic world as Harley Quinn's first comic appearance.

 

This of course is just my (and my friend's) opinion.

 

Time will tell.

 

 

Meck

 

So, how do you find out if CGC will slab it? email them for a decision?

[rjrjr]

ISBN is for books and book like media. Comic books and other monthly magazines are not given ISBN numbers. Also pertaining to copyright dates, the date on the packaging is likely the date the copyright was applied for. I think it quite impossible to narrow any particular book down to its exact month produced and it's on shelf date. The board game is also dated 1993 and has Harley in a form of printed matter (a game piece) It could be argued that it was out before the book and record combo. Again a nice Harley collectible, but its media form is a book and not a comic book.

 

 

So graphic novels and TPB which have ISBNs are not comic books? Even GNs with original material? I just pulled my Silver Surfer: The Enslavers off the shelf (one of my older original material publications) and looked and it has an ISBN. It is listed in the Overstreet Price Guide along with the other Silver Surfer comic books. Does a comic book have to be a soft floppy pamphlet? A periodical?

 

I guess I don't understand why Power Records and Silver Surfer: The Enslavers are considered comic books, but the "Almost Got 'Im" book is not.

 

I want it to be clear, I have no skin in this game (I don't own the "Almost Got 'Im" book.) I think it is an interesting discussion though. I wasn't aware that what is considered a comic book had such a narrow definition. I've always considered GNs, TPBs, paperbacks, magazines, even some hard cover books (like the Silver Surfer: The Enslavers), that have predominantly comic content to be comic books. As a Star Wars comic fan, I've always considered "Star Wars: The Mixed Up Droid" a comic book for example, regardless of the fact it is smaller than a traditional comic book, has less pages than a traditional comic book, came in a plastic package with a tape, and has an ISBN.

 

I do appreciate your opinion however.

Edited November 6, 2013 by rjrjr

[Junkdrawer]

If CGC does grade it and I dont see why they wouldn't take the money. I feel that the label will say 1993. I got to imagine they wont go that deep into finding out the actual production date.

 

Also note that if there was going to be something created today, say a litho/print of Harley from her first ever cell in Batman Adventures Series, the copyright date will be 1993 not 2013

[rjrjr]

If CGC does grade it and I dont see why they wouldn't take the money. I feel that the label will say 1993. I got to imagine they wont go that deep into finding out the actual production date.

 

Also note that if there was going to be something created today, say a litho/print of Harley from her first ever cell in Batman Adventures Series, the copyright date will be 1993 not 2013

 

The character first appeared on BAS in 1992.

[divad]

True.......BUT I can give you a few (comic character) examples of where community consensus can change (over time).

 

Hellboy - First it was Next Men #21, THEN it was San Diego Comic-Con #2, THEN it was Dime Press #4, THEN it was 1991 Salt Lake City Convention Program.

 

Goon - First it was Goon #1 (Avatar), THEN it was Avatar Illustrated Summer 1998, THEN it was Dreamwalker #0.

 

It took time for the community to "decide" what was considered the first published appearance for these characters. Why can't Harley Quinn go through the same evolution? Guess only time (and the community) will tell.

 

 

Carl

 

 

 

 

Good point, Carl

[Junkdrawer]

ISBN is for books and book like media. Comic books and other monthly magazines are not given ISBN numbers. Also pertaining to copyright dates, the date on the packaging is likely the date the copyright was applied for. I think it quite impossible to narrow any particular book down to its exact month produced and it's on shelf date. The board game is also dated 1993 and has Harley in a form of printed matter (a game piece) It could be argued that it was out before the book and record combo. Again a nice Harley collectible, but its media form is a book and not a comic book.

 

 

So graphic novels and TPB which have ISBNs are not comic books? Even GNs with original material? I just pulled my Silver Surfer: The Enslavers off the shelf (one of my older original material publications) and looked and it has an ISBN. It is listed in the Overstreet Price Guide along with the other Silver Surfer comic books. Does a comic book have to be a soft floppy pamphlet? A periodical?

 

I guess I don't understand why Power Records and Silver Surfer: The Enslavers are considered comic books, but the "Almost Got 'Im" book is not.

 

I want it to be clear, I have no skin in this game (I don't own the "Almost Got 'Im" book.) I think it is an interesting discussion though. I wasn't aware that what is considered a comic book had such a narrow definition. I've always considered GNs, TPBs, paperbacks, magazines, even some hard cover books (like the Silver Surfer: The Enslavers), that have predominantly comic content to be comic books. As a Star Wars comic fan, I've always considered "Star Wars: The Mixed Up Droid" a comic book for example, regardless of the fact it is smaller than a traditional comic book, has less pages than a traditional comic book, came in a plastic package with a tape, and has an ISBN.

 

I do appreciate your opinion however.

I'm more than likely assuming when speaking about copyright laws ( I know didley) I just know I have never seen a traditional floppy comic book with an ISBN. Over the years comic books have taken on shapes and sizes, so whats a comic or whats a book can always be argued. I cant say CGC is the end all with decisions and what they call it is what it is. I sent in some moderns just last week and they yanked my TMNT #2 out of the invoice, created a new one with a new fee and shipping because they call it a "Magazine" We can argue about that another day, but thats a comic book. CGC makes it fall into catagories by its size, not by its media form.

[divad]

After reading the entire thread, and considering the evidence (and the relatively biased and non-biased opinions of our brethren) , you can put me in both the "comic book" and "first appearance" camp. Clearly, it qualifies as both. Sorry, BA 12 worshipers . . .

[Junkdrawer]

After reading the entire thread, and considering the evidence (and the relatively biased and non-biased opinions of our brethren) , you can put me in both the "comic book" and "first appearance" camp. Clearly, it qualifies as both. Sorry, BA 12 worshipers . . .

I agree