Shouldn't a CGC 9.8 off-white pages be more desirable than 9.8 white pages?

[Iceman399]

I like eggs

 

Chicken was first

 

nuh-uh!

 

I know you are but what am I

[Dr. Balls]

If there are a "large number of collectors (including CGC collectors) that actually DO think that lower page quality might adversely affect a CGC, then why all the negative reaction to my original post & follow up comments? You are essentially saying I'm right, but still can't quite get yourself to fully admit it by throwing if's,maybe's & might's that collectors may have done or thought before submitting their books.

 

Another poster made a feeble attempt at humor by bringing up a hypothetical CGC 9.8 with cream pages, so I called him out on it to give me a number of such comics & he of course refused. Yet another poster, gave a chart from their experience that showed 0 zero 9.8 cream pages.

 

Mr.Watson posted pic's of cream to off-white books that obviously have a higher page quality than what I just repeated from the poster that clearly stated cream pages, nothing more added like off-white. The examples Mr.Watson, as I stated, are of a higher page quality thus the higher grades.

 

Another poster showed info directly from CGC that stated that certain PQ's couldn't reach/attain a certain high grade. This flat out says grade & PQ is inclusive.

 

As for everyone who says this is a stupid thread, I can only say to please go back to posting threads about which fictional male superhero you would like to have sex with, all while doing so from your parent's basement where you currently live & have always lived.

 

 

I love it when I get to see an honest-to-goodness take-my-toys-and-go-home meltdown.

 

[Sal]

Bottom line is that white pages represents a condition that is closer to how it was originally issued - and THAT is what makes it desirable. If you don't care about the page quality... that's just fine but you are buying books that have been degraded by oxidation. Has nothing to do with 'PQ kool-aid'.

 

 

Please note; blanket statements follow.

 

In the abstract, you are correct. Metaphysically speaking, white pages denote a condition closer to original than off-white, or even off-white to white.

 

However, in the real world, page quality can very often - very often - change on any book from submission to submission. It is a capricious and ephemeral notation. Especially on old-label slabs, which are nearly always bumped up in PQ designation upon resub.

 

Not to mention impermanent. That slab with a white page designation that has been kept in a storage facility or other non-climate controlled area could certainly no longer have white pages.

 

 

So, yeah, if you want to make the judgment that the PQ designation is forever and irretrievably absolute, go ahead and pay a premium. If it makes you happier about your purchase then sure. The rest of us will bemoan the artificially inflated prices on our funnybooks but this is balanced by the suppressed prices on books which have the unlucky state of being determined to be anything but white at that particular point in time

 

This is a strawman to my statements. I never claimed the PQ can't change, I merely stated that it's a relatively straightforward process. Obviously the PQ stated on the slab is a moment in time snapshot.

 

It's really not that hard to determine a standard and then grade the color of pages based on that standard. Just because the CGC doesn't make that standard public or some of the *smart* folks on this board aren't able to comprehend how that could be done - doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Is it really so hard to imagine a color guide with more gradations that the Overstreet one?

 

 

 

 

It's not really a strawman. Did you read the disclaimer?

 

Also, PQ != Page colour.

 

Also, your point would be even more close to germane if every publisher used the same exact paper, from the same manufacturer on all of their books. The newsprint on, say, Superman 181 from the Silver Age isn't going to look like the newsprint on Avengers 161, which won't look like the newsprint on American Flagg! 10.

[Jeffro.]

 

As for everyone who says this is a stupid thread, I can only say to please go back to posting threads about which fictional male superhero you would like to have sex with, all while doing so from your parent's basement where you currently live & have always lived.

 

decisions, decisions

 

I'm thinking either Luke Cage or Puck

[Jeffro.]

I like eggs

 

Chicken was first

 

nuh-uh!

 

I know you are but what am I

 

I'm rubber you're glue, whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you!

[DrWatson]

 

As for everyone who says this is a stupid thread, I can only say to please go back to posting threads about which fictional male superhero you would like to have sex with, all while doing so from your parent's basement where you currently live & have always lived.

 

decisions, decisions

 

I'm thinking either Luke Cage or Puck

Wow, I actually learned something today.

[conditionfreak]

I didn't start with it because it wasn't my original point. I only brought up CGC because most posters with their comments act like CGC is perfect, when they definitely arent.

 

When you try to have a discussion with people who think CGC is god & what they say and do is infallible it is very hard to get anywhere. There was a chart by another poster that proves my PQ point clearly.

 

http://www.bipcomics.com/showcase/CGCWhiteness/

 

It's in black & white and factual but people still want bury the heads in the sand & say the world is flat despite all the evidence staring them in the face. The chart clearly shows a correlation between higher grades & page quality being inclusive with just a few very minute exceptions.

 

Just stop. When you're wrong you're wrong. Everyone is wrong from time to time. Just man up an admit it. You should be thankful when others correct your mistakes because that's how you learn and get better.

 

You're not doing yourself any favors.

 

What chart did you read? Because I read the one in my post that clearly shows I am right. Can you actually read or not? Do yourself a favor & learn to read. The mind is a terrible thing to waste. You should take your own advice & just stop.

 

I'm a little confused here, so bear with me. Do you think that chart is an official CGC chart? Do you think it's some kind of CGC census? Because all it is is an example chart and has nothing to do with CGC (you know what I mean). Giff found one copy for every PQ designation there is. One random example. That chart doesn't prove anything you've said, it does not show a correlation between higher grades & page quality being inclusive with just a few very minute exceptions.

 

this is ALL true, but even if you could PERCIEVE a correlation (which we don't have anywhere near enough data), the correlation is in the traits of a given comic (PQ vs overall condition) more than it is partial or favored grading.

 

Certainly if a collector took extra care to protect his/her comics over a long period of time, they are more likely (but certainly not guaranteed) to have tried to protect the page quality as well. With this very general and obvious statement, I've explained why there appears to be some correlation with higher CGC grades and higher page quality.

 

ALSO, there are large number of collectors (including CGC collectors) which DO think that lower page quality might adversely affect a CGC grade, and they are subsequently more reticent to submit high quality copies if they have lower page quality.

 

 

 

If there are a "large number of collectors (including CGC collectors) that actually DO think that lower page quality might adversely affect a CGC, then why all the negative reaction to my original post & follow up comments? You are essentially saying I'm right, but still can't quite get yourself to fully admit it by throwing if's,maybe's & might's that collectors may have done or thought before submitting their books.

 

Another poster made a feeble attempt at humor by bringing up a hypothetical CGC 9.8 with cream pages, so I called him out on it to give me a number of such comics & he of course refused. Yet another poster, gave a chart from their experience that showed 0 zero 9.8 cream pages.

 

Mr.Watson posted pic's of cream to off-white books that obviously have a higher page quality than what I just repeated from the poster that clearly stated cream pages, nothing more added like off-white. The examples Mr.Watson, as I stated, are of a higher page quality thus the higher grades.

 

Another poster showed info directly from CGC that stated that certain PQ's couldn't reach/attain a certain high grade. This flat out says grade & PQ is inclusive.

 

As for everyone who says this is a stupid thread, I can only say to please go back to posting threads about which fictional male superhero you would like to have sex with, all while doing so from your parent's basement where you currently live & have always lived.

 

 

Pick one or more from below. My top pick is highlighted:

 

Elevator doesn't go to the top floor

 

Bats in the belfry

 

One sandwich short of a picnic.

 

One brick short of a load.

 

One egg short of an omelet.

 

One pickle short of a barrel.

 

One neuron short of a synapse.

 

The light is on, but nobody is home.

 

The elevator doesn't go to the top floor.

 

The last 10 pages are blank.

 

There's nothing in the attic but cobwebs.

 

Not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

 

Not the sharpest tool in the shed.

 

Not the brightest penny in the purse.

 

Not the brightest crayon in the box.

 

Not the brightest bulb on the tree.

 

Not the brightest star in the sky.

 

If brains were dynamite, he would not have enough to sneeze.

 

If brains were money, he couldn't change a nickel.

 

If brains were taxed, he would get a refund.

 

If brains were lead weights, his would blow away.

 

If brains were wood, his pet termite would starve.

 

If brains were muscles, 98-pound weaklings would be kicking sand in HIS face

 

If brains were gold, he wouldn't have enough to fill a tooth - on a mouse.

 

If brains were gasoline, he wouldn't have enough to get his motorcycle out of the garage.

 

The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.

 

The tank is empty, the battery is dead, the driveshaft has rusted through.

 

The gates are down, the lights are flashing, but there is no train.

 

The starting gate is open, but he's still asking directions.

 

Donated his brain to science before he was done using it.

 

Donated his brain to science. Science sent it back.

 

Donated his brain to science. Science is contesting the will.

 

Donated his brain to science. They thought it was a new strain of bacterium.

 

Bright as a coalbin at midnight.

 

Bright as a flashlight after 5 years in a drawer.

 

Bright as sunlight glinting off a charcoal briquet.

 

Bright as a baby firefly.

 

Sharp as a blimp.

 

Sharp as a marshmallow.

 

Sharp as a cotton puff.

 

As useless as a camera without film.

 

As useless as a bike without wheels.

 

As useless as a bucket without a bottom.

 

As useless as a knife without a blade.

 

As useless as a wheel without an axle.

 

As useless as a gudgeon without a pintle.

 

Thinks the phone book is idiotic. It takes so many hours to find the name you want.

 

Thinks "Middle East" means Virginia and Maryland.

 

Thinks "Middle East" means Michigan and Arizona.

 

Thinks "Red China" means dishes.

 

Thinks Latin Americans speak Latin.

 

Thinks Latin Americans come from Latvia.

 

Beer has more brains in its head.

 

Running for an elevator, uses his head to keep the doors from closing.

 

If you gave him a penny for his thoughts, you'd get change.

 

Depriving a village somewhere of its insufficiently_thoughtful_person.

 

Hands full, head empty.

 

When they handed out brains, thought they said "drains" and didn't want one.

 

If he were any dimmer, he'd have to be watered twice a week.

 

His one neuron is getting mighty lonely.

 

The last one out of the starting gate.

 

Gets the left glove on the left hand on the second or third try.

 

Has been working with glue too much.

 

Nearly starved to death following the instructions "Lather, rinse, repeat."

 

A 6-pack of brains, but without the plastic net to hold them together.

 

Always the last to laugh.

 

When a shoelace breaks has to buy new shoes.

 

The brightness knob is set to low.

 

On the road of life he's the one going the other way.

 

His ignorance is exceeded only by his stupidity.

 

Always gets the better deal in any exchange of ideas.

 

Still trying to figure out that one about the chicken and the road.

 

Thick-waisted, but narrow-minded.

 

Out of his depth in a wading pool.

 

Awed by the brilliance of [Harry on Third Rock, Big Bird, Urkel].

 

Has yet to master the soup spoon.

 

Favorite show? Barney.

 

When his IQ gets up to 50 he should sell.

 

Prime candidate for natural de-selection

 

 

[Sal]

Sure it does, especially when you're taking someone else's opinion as fact in regards to the page quality.

 

If you don't "take someone else's opinion as fact..." why bother having it graded in the first place? I have some low grade books that I'm willing to sell you at NM prices... IMHO they are 9.8's... so that makes sense right?

 

Do you understand how they judge the PQ? It's a pretty straightforward process and not a lot of room for interpretation. Is your position that books are routinely not graded correctly in terms of PQ? I believe that is actually the most consistent thing being graded.

...

 

Indeed. He needs to find something else to believe in.

 

Having worked in Marketing for 15+ years I believe that color is a very easy thing to determine - and I believe in that.

 

mmmkay...You have a copy of Detective 173 in front of you to grade. The pages are supple and pretty white-appearing. However, there is a slight sunshadow on the top 1/18th inch of each interior page. The sunshadow area is as supple as the rest of the page. What's the PQ of this book?

 

 

 

[Iceman399]

I like eggs

 

Chicken was first

 

nuh-uh!

 

I know you are but what am I

 

I'm rubber you're glue, whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you!

 

ya well...

 

YOUR MOM! Burn!!!!

[JAM_NYC]

 

As for everyone who says this is a stupid thread, I can only say to please go back to posting threads about which fictional male superhero you would like to have sex with, all while doing so from your parent's basement where you currently live & have always lived.

 

decisions, decisions

 

I'm thinking either Luke Cage or Puck

 

[simply2fly]

Sure it does, especially when you're taking someone else's opinion as fact in regards to the page quality.

 

If you don't "take someone else's opinion as fact..." why bother having it graded in the first place? I have some low grade books that I'm willing to sell you at NM prices... IMHO they are 9.8's... so that makes sense right?

 

Do you understand how they judge the PQ? It's a pretty straightforward process and not a lot of room for interpretation. Is your position that books are routinely not graded correctly in terms of PQ? I believe that is actually the most consistent thing being graded.

...

 

Indeed. He needs to find something else to believe in.

 

Having worked in Marketing for 15+ years I believe that color is a very easy thing to determine - and I believe in that.

 

mmmkay...You have a copy of Detective 173 in front of you to grade. The pages are supple and pretty white-appearing. However, there is a slight sunshadow on the top 1/18th inch of each interior page. The sunshadow area is as supple as the rest of the page. What's the PQ of this book?

 

 

 

I said it would be easy to establish a standard for such situations - I never said that I had done so.

 

Your grade? D-

[retrothecollector]

And poof his remark is gone.

 

 

 

[JAM_NYC]

Poof!

 

[Dr. Balls]

Man, that was fast - I didn't even see it, and I was refreshing a lot.

[Iceman399]

NERRRRD RAGEEEE!

[thunsicker]

And my witty retort is gone too...

[JAM_NYC]

Muuumfiooo!...muumfiiooo!...muuumfiooo!

[Dr. Balls]

Muuumfiooo!...muumfiiooo!...muuumfiooo!

 

[simply2fly]

Bottom line is that white pages represents a condition that is closer to how it was originally issued - and THAT is what makes it desirable. If you don't care about the page quality... that's just fine but you are buying books that have been degraded by oxidation. Has nothing to do with 'PQ kool-aid'.

 

 

Please note; blanket statements follow.

 

In the abstract, you are correct. Metaphysically speaking, white pages denote a condition closer to original than off-white, or even off-white to white.

 

However, in the real world, page quality can very often - very often - change on any book from submission to submission. It is a capricious and ephemeral notation. Especially on old-label slabs, which are nearly always bumped up in PQ designation upon resub.

 

Not to mention impermanent. That slab with a white page designation that has been kept in a storage facility or other non-climate controlled area could certainly no longer have white pages.

 

 

So, yeah, if you want to make the judgment that the PQ designation is forever and irretrievably absolute, go ahead and pay a premium. If it makes you happier about your purchase then sure. The rest of us will bemoan the artificially inflated prices on our funnybooks but this is balanced by the suppressed prices on books which have the unlucky state of being determined to be anything but white at that particular point in time

 

This is a strawman to my statements. I never claimed the PQ can't change, I merely stated that it's a relatively straightforward process. Obviously the PQ stated on the slab is a moment in time snapshot.

 

It's really not that hard to determine a standard and then grade the color of pages based on that standard. Just because the CGC doesn't make that standard public or some of the *smart* folks on this board aren't able to comprehend how that could be done - doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Is it really so hard to imagine a color guide with more gradations that the Overstreet one?

 

 

 

 

It's not really a strawman. Did you read the disclaimer?

 

Also, PQ != Page colour.

 

Also, your point would be even more close to germane if every publisher used the same exact paper, from the same manufacturer on all of their books. The newsprint on, say, Superman 181 from the Silver Age isn't going to look like the newsprint on Avengers 161, which won't look like the newsprint on American Flagg! 10.

 

- Providing a disclaimer doesn't mean you didn't strawman my statement.

PQ = Page Quality (hence the Q)

[Iceman399]

Muuumfiooo!...muumfiiooo!...muuumfiooo!