Ive lost ALL confidence in CGC - UPDATE on page 221 2 2

[ComicConnoisseur]

But CGC is giving out numbered grades and colored labels...in effect, definitive grades. And when something like this happens the answer will be "meh, we're only human." The two don't go together. It's one or the other.

 

Ok....if you've identified a problem, propose a solution??

 

You can't have a quantitative number on a qualitative grade. If you do, the whole thing is a farce. (And this is from someone who has 900 slabs in my personal collection. I LIKE grading. But I want transparency).

 

And apparently you can as the marketplace has accepted this since 1998 or whenever CGC was founded.

 

I like grading too and it does add an unbiased element to the business/hobby; but I also realize there are inherent flaws within the same business/hobby.

 

Most likely the biggest flaw it has is that it's not unbiased. Hard to believe that preferred customers don't get softer grading, which probably happened in this case. You do not want to anger your base. happy customer means repeat customer

 

While that makes sense, I cannot prove that anymore than you can. If it were to be proven, the entire House of Cards would collapse.

 

Very true. But it's standard practice in most businesses to give pref treatment to your best customers, I know I do it.

 

The key is most businesses..not all businesses. I believe when ethics and morals are a major part of your business, the smart money believe to keep your business healthy, you treat everyone the same.

 

That is, as long as you want the money coming in. The minute the ethics are called into question, bye bye business.

 

Just ask a disbarred lawyer how much truthfulness and ethics matter

 

(thumbs u

[RockMyAmadeus]

Are there any real collectors left out there ? Someone who buys a book and actually keeps it ?

 

I regret selling my Vampi #1 SS Frazetta every time I think about it.

 

But the offer was too good to pass up, and I could then...buy more books! (Although I should have CPR it. That book was a solid 9.2 after a press.)

 

There are a few things that I wouldn't sell regardless of the price...gifts, special signings, etc. I'd give them away, but I'll never sell them.

 

[Tony S]

OK - Im finally back. Started midnight shift last night,,

 

Anyway -

 

- I am NOT looking for any type of compensation for this book AT ALL. While I wasn't thrilled, I was satisfied with CGC's solution the 1st time around.

 

- I washed my hands to this book, but was PM'd by the buyer yesterday. I don't feel he was stirring any pot. Knowing the situation surrounding this book, I would have done the same exact thing.

 

- I DONT believe the buyer is a "Big Gun" in the submission game. He bought this book for his collection, and that is where I was told it is going to stay.

 

- Once I learned of this new grade, I felt it my obligation to this Community to let everyone know about it.

 

- I can only speak for myself, but to imply any type of shadiness on my part is silly. What could I possibly have to gain?

 

- Harshen's reply is NOT an exact quote. I went through my email's and that must have been in a phone conversation.

 

- Harshen did respond quickly to an email yesterday saying he would look into it, but wouldn't be able to do so until Tuesday

 

 

Another conspiracty theory shot to hell. So sad

 

Thank you for your post. Both your first and this one.

[ComicConnoisseur]

I too have not read this entire thread but I get the jist of it.

 

Would it be more conducive to discretely "tattoo" the interior of the book with the CGC number to prevent this kind of fiasco? I think it would certainly prevent the books from going through the resubmittal and screwing up the census.

 

 

If i remember correctly, PSA/DNA has invisible ink. CGC could use that to barcode a book.

 

I'm not sure barcoding with solve anything that happened here. There is nothing to stop someone from buying a slabbed book, cracking it out TRIMMING it or ironing it, reading it...or just handling it poorly. Anything could change the grade of the book before it's resubmitted.

 

It might be useful to deter theft but won't help the crack press fiddle resub issues.

I agree that it may not be useful for this situation currently, however if CGC were to implement the barcode/invisible ink linking the actual book to the system and not just the holder and make this information public then it might stabilize the somewhat fragile state that the hobby appears to be going through.

 

It would deter theft, and also deter the "resubmit and see if I can get a better grade" mentality. I think once a book as been submitted that there should not be the opportunity to crack it open and press, trim, resubmit etc. I mean George Costanza couldn't return his "flagged" book for a refund so why should a slabbed book allowed to be cracked and resubmitted for the sake of profit or cheating the other guy? After all the CGC graders are only human right?

 

Am I alone in this belief or is this what the hobby is turning to?

No, but what you suggest would kill the pressing cottage industry, and kill profits for most of the big time dealers.

They wouldn`t want that. It would hit their profits like a ton of bricks.

Edited March 31, 2014 by ComicConnoisseur

[shadroch]

Throw the raw book in a lake. If it floats, it is trimmed and should be burned at the stake. If it sinks, it was not trimmed.

[Iceman399]

Throw the raw book in a lake. If it floats, it is trimmed and should be burned at the stake. If it sinks, it was not trimmed.

 

[Magneto]

 

you want to burn a JIM 83? ROFL okeeeeeeeeeeeeee....

 

yes.....burn it.

 

That 100% guarantees it can never create the same problem again.

 

[techtre2003]

I'd even promise to keep it in my collection and have it buried with me when I die if you want.

 

This is what happens to items retired for such reasons. Destruction isn't necessary (nor was that what I implied) as they end up in collections with no intent to liquidate.

 

Now if only I can find out how one gets on the list to receive these retired items...

[Racer-X]

OP had the chance to resub book when it came back trimmed/PLOD. Once he sold it PLOD, he has no claim to what happens after.

 

Did anyone consider that PLOD buyer may have pasted a new edge on trimmed book, in effect anti-trimming it and garnering a Blue? It's the new pressing...

Edited March 31, 2014 by Racer-X

[Columbia Comics]

 

you want to burn a JIM 83? ROFL okeeeeeeeeeeeeee....

 

yes.....burn it.

 

That 100% guarantees it can never create the same problem again.

 

 

Seeing as how my "burn it" comment lit a "fire" under many of you (that's a pun), I'm going to follow the discussion yet bow out.

 

GL to everyone

[shadroch]

I'd even promise to keep it in my collection and have it buried with me when I die if you want.

 

This is what happens to items retired for such reasons. Destruction isn't necessary (nor was that what I implied) as they end up in collections with no intent to liquidate.

 

Now if only I can find out how one gets on the list to receive these retired items...

 

 

Open up a retirement home for unwanted slabs.

[maloney414]

 

you want to burn a JIM 83? ROFL okeeeeeeeeeeeeee....

 

yes.....burn it.

 

That 100% guarantees it can never create the same problem again.

 

that's upside down face. You'd be better off to burn CGC headquarters and every slabbed container everywhere in the world.

 

Comics matter, CGC does not.

 

So explain to me what good it does keeping a scarlet letter book in circulation?

 

And if CGC purchases it, then why does it matter what they do to it??

 

Food for thought:

 

- In August 2011 a TMNT #1 3rd printing was incorrectly slabbed as a 1st printing CGC 9.8 and sold for $22,752 on Pedigree Comics site. Link to Pedigree sale

 

- CGC made the buyer whole by finding them another TMNT #1 CGC 9.8

 

- The book then reappeared for sale in September 2013 on Comiclink. Because boardies saw it, I was able to report it to Comiclink before it sold.

 

- We still don't know who has the book.

 

Link: TMNT Difference in Printings thread (page 27 where the book is back on Comiclink)

[BradleyX2]

Hey all,

 

As was mentioned previously in the thread, the matter is being investigated even as we speak.

 

As far as announcing anything here on the boards currently, the only two people authorized to do that are Paul or Harshen. Paul is currently flying back from Seattle and Harshen had scheduled the day off to to attend to his fathers surgery today.

 

Rest assured, once we have a better idea as to the facts involved, we'll make a statement here on the boards.

[techtre2003]

 

you want to burn a JIM 83? ROFL okeeeeeeeeeeeeee....

 

yes.....burn it.

 

That 100% guarantees it can never create the same problem again.

 

 

Seeing as how my "burn it" comment lit a "fire" under many of you (that's a pun), I'm going to follow the discussion yet bow out.

 

GL to everyone

 

You can't seriously be a comic collector or have any love for comics if you don't wince at the thought of a nice looking JIM 83 being burned because a company messed up on labeling it.

 

And that's not a personal attack on you at all. I'm just scratching my head on why you would think the reaction of some here would be anything but NOOOOO..

[chrisco37]

I imagine it takes them longer than one minute. Even on a book with no flaws.

 

By the time you remove the book from the bag, and flip through the pages (gently, I'm assuming) to make sure they're all there and not torn/ripped/pieces missing/drawn on/indented/etc...you've probably hit the minute mark already.

 

You still have to look at the cover, make notes, assess the damage, assign a grade, return it to the bag, etc...

 

It definitely takes longer than a minute.

 

I have no inside info, but I assume the page count is done prior to grading and any damage to the inside is notated for the graders.

I forget the number but I remember being stunned at the number of books they graded at a Wizard show a few years back.

 

Back in the early days, it was fairly easy to reach and talk to Steve Borock. I was talking to him once about grading, how long it took, how incredibly boring I thought the job would be. He told me that by the time the books reach the graders, a page count has already been done, the restoration check is done. Missing coupons or such is noted. Graders only have to assign a grade.

 

I don't know if anyone knows the average time except CGC managers, but freed of checking for things I've mentioned, the grading goes a lot quicker.

 

So the pre-check/page count/ etc do not factor in to "grading time"?

 

I remember having a great conversation years ago with Paul about this exact topic. There were a few of us there (it might have been after the Dynamic Forces Fan Fest)...he told a story about how a few guys came up to him at a shown and said that a book shouldn't take more than x-seconds to grade. It was well under a minute range.

 

If I remember right, Paul said he asked them to take a book and remove it from a bag and return it to the bag and see how long that takes. Now add in all the other steps.

 

I stand by my original post that it takes them well over a minute to do a book (if they are truly doing what they say and grading the entire book).

 

Especially if you factor in that more than one person looks at it. The way you are describing it makes it sound like the only part that goes into grading the interior is a page count and a missing coupon check.

 

 

[Magneto]

I'd even promise to keep it in my collection and have it buried with me when I die if you want.

 

This is what happens to items retired for such reasons. Destruction isn't necessary (nor was that what I implied) as they end up in collections with no intent to liquidate.

 

Now if only I can find out how one gets on the list to receive these retired items...

 

 

Open up a retirement home for unwanted slabs.

 

Kind of like the island of misfit toys!

[techtre2003]

 

you want to burn a JIM 83? ROFL okeeeeeeeeeeeeee....

 

yes.....burn it.

 

That 100% guarantees it can never create the same problem again.

 

that's upside down face. You'd be better off to burn CGC headquarters and every slabbed container everywhere in the world.

 

Comics matter, CGC does not.

 

So explain to me what good it does keeping a scarlet letter book in circulation?

 

And if CGC purchases it, then why does it matter what they do to it??

 

Keeping the book in circulation is dangerous.

 

- In August 2011 a TMNT #1 3rd printing was incorrectly slabbed as a 1st printing CGC 9.8 and sold for $22,752 on Pedigree Comics site. Link to Pedigree sale

 

- CGC made the buyer whole by finding them another TMNT #1 CGC 9.8

 

- The book then reappeared for sale in September 2013 on Comiclink. Because boardies saw it, I was able to report it to Comiclink before it sold.

 

- We still don't know who has the book.

 

Link: TMNT Difference in Printings thread (page 27 where the book is back on Comiclink)

 

BUT the JIM 83 was slabbed twice as a blue label; seems just as reasonable it wasn't actually trimmed. Big difference between that and a book that is 100% without a doubt mislabeled wrong as to the printing.

[ItsJustRyan]

Hey all,

 

As was mentioned previously in the thread, the matter is being investigated even as we speak.

 

As far as announcing anything here on the boards currently, the only two people authorized to do that are Paul or Harshen. Paul is currently flying back from Seattle and Harshen had scheduled the day off to to attend to his fathers surgery today.

 

Rest assured, once we have a better idea as to the facts involved, we'll make a statement here on the boards.

 

Good to know and thanks for the statement.

 

 

[MatterEaterLad]

Hey all,

 

As was mentioned previously in the thread, the matter is being investigated even as we speak.

 

As far as announcing anything here on the boards currently, the only two people authorized to do that are Paul or Harshen. Paul is currently flying back from Seattle and Harshen had scheduled the day off to to attend to his fathers surgery today.

 

Rest assured, once we have a better idea as to the facts involved, we'll make a statement here on the boards.

 

[Jiminy_Cricket-migration]

 

you want to burn a JIM 83? ROFL okeeeeeeeeeeeeee....

 

yes.....burn it.

 

That 100% guarantees it can never create the same problem again.