Insane press and flip Avengers 1.

[Racer-X]

Seller is gaming the system, no two ways about it.

 

CGC have always been more lenient on back cover flaws than front, so i guess if you can move the flaws from the front of the book to the back it will grade higher.

 

I'm amazed there isn't more wear along the old spine fold though.

 

Must be sickening for Racer X to see this marked up by $70,000. I just hope the market rejects this practice and it doesn't sell for the 9.2 price.

 

I promise you I don't at all mind CPR to maximize value on a book that I've owned. It's just that - as I keep saying - this book was nowhere near a 9.2, and barely held the 8.5 grade. If I saw potential in it I would have CPR'd myself.

 

But the consensus is that it is the same book, so at least I've learned something to look out for - especially on sales that only show a front cover scan!

[Spiderphill]

Seller is gaming the system, no two ways about it.

 

CGC have always been more lenient on back cover flaws than front, so i guess if you can move the flaws from the front of the book to the back it will grade higher.

 

I'm amazed there isn't more wear along the old spine fold though.

 

Must be sickening for Racer X to see this marked up by $70,000. I just hope the market rejects this practice and it doesn't sell for the 9.2 price.

 

I promise you I don't at all mind CPR to maximize value on a book that I've owned. It's just that - as I keep saying - this book was nowhere near a 9.2, and barely held the 8.5 grade. If I saw potential in it I would have CPR'd myself.

 

But the consensus is that it is the same book, so at least I've learned something to look out for - especially on sales that only show a front cover scan!

I'm in the same boat. I would of never ever thought that 8.5 was able to upgrade until I saw the 9.2. A perfect spine shift and it makes the book look like it has no spine wear...

[Sqeggs]

This reminds me of the Ewert Micro trimming scandal of years ago. Jason Ewert was slipping trimmed books past CGC. Steve Borock took an active roll and eventually Ewert was banned from using CGC's services. CGC also offered to inspect, free of charge, any CGC books sold by Ewert.

Any old timers out there remember all this ?!?

 

Hard to forget that one. Huge story in our little world!

 

[peewee22]

All this makes me wonder why I love comics.

[drbanner]

Someone has to know where his 4.5 Batman 1 came from before it was pressed and what its previous grade was. You can also tell on the BC that the spine has been shifted.

 

It was auctioned by ComicConnect in August of last year, as part of the Ruben Blades collection. It was a 2.0 with cover detached and centerfold detached from bottom staple only. The erasure marks beneath the image of Batman on the front cover give it away.

 

In this case, the grade appears to have also been helped in part by removing the spine roll (making the spine look much prettier than it did), but I really wish CGC would stop rewarding tape jobs with grade bumps.

wow a 2.0 to a 4.5. If you ask me the seller has mastered when to use tape to maximize a book.

 

This is ugly...

 

CGC's institutionalization of "pre-processing" books by hiring Matt Nelson to do in-house work for them just exasperates this abomination. This guy certainly takes the cake, but CGC serves it up to us on a Silver platter with a bib, fork, and napkin while holding the chair for us before we sit down to eat. Reminds me of Hannibal Lecter feeding Ray Liotta his own brains in Hannibal.

[Spiderphill]

Bunky said he's tied with the Wilson brothers. They have the knowledge of how to maximize a book and I guess they're pros.

[drbanner]

Bunky said he's tied with the Wilson brothers. They have the knowledge of how to maximize a book and I guess they're pros.

 

Figures...

[skypinkblu]

Bunky said he's tied with the Wilson brothers. They have the knowledge of how to maximize a book and I guess they're pros.

Wasn't one of them, a well known restorer? I know I bought a Wonder Woman 1 on eBay that was "restored" by him, and the pages were put back in the wrong order.

 

I know I'm in the minority, but I agree with Oakman, that pressing is restoration. It should be noted.

[etanick]

Bunky said he's tied with the Wilson brothers. They have the knowledge of how to maximize a book and I guess they're pros.

 

well, I bought over 2 years from a different Ebay seller and I suspected this have been done...I never mentioned it but once the link between this seller and the Wilson was brought up....well it all make sense now and yes, this slab is over 2 years old.

 

When I bought the book, I examined it closely and always thought the upper staple area looked odd. I also thought the book was overgraded from many of the flaws on the back cover.

 

...but I didn't put it together until this issue was first brought to light in the restoration forum last year.

 

...and now the link between the 2 sellers all made sense...all I can say is, this has been under the radar for years now.

 

I am sure some of you can figure out who the other Ebay seller is

 

as Timely pointed out in this thread, this is not news....just not mentioned "enough"

 

 

[Spiderphill]

I wonder how many people are sifting through their slabs looking for spine shifts now

[oakman29]

Bunky said he's tied with the Wilson brothers. They have the knowledge of how to maximize a book and I guess they're pros.

Wasn't one of them, a well known restorer? I know I bought a Wonder Woman 1 on eBay that was "restored" by him, and the pages were put back in the wrong order.

 

I know I'm in the minority, but I agree with Oakman, that pressing is restoration. It should be noted.

Why thank you Sharon.

[Spiderphill]

Bunky said he's tied with the Wilson brothers. They have the knowledge of how to maximize a book and I guess they're pros.

Wasn't one of them, a well known restorer? I know I bought a Wonder Woman 1 on eBay that was "restored" by him, and the pages were put back in the wrong order.

 

I know I'm in the minority, but I agree with Oakman, that pressing is restoration. It should be noted.

this is what you get when cgc allowed ct/glue on ga and pressing. Guess its to protect a few collections and big books in the hobby .

[Sqeggs]

Just kinda thinking out loud here. If they shift the spine so that a spine with multiple ticks becomes a sharp, flawless spine, haven't they improved the appearance of the book, even though the ticks are there still there on the back cover? Doesn't this particular book look better than it did before?

 

Not trying to defend the practice exactly, but if you are willing to accept pressing in general, is this step necessarily out of bounds?

 

And if getting rid of pressing isn't going to happen (partly, at least, because it can be very hard to detect), then it would appear we are stuck with this practice as well. Even though these books have a distinctive look, that look also appears naturally in some SA books, as someone noted. So determining definitively that this particular manipulation has taken place would be difficult, even if CGC had a mind to do so.

[sufunk]

Just kinda thinking out loud here. If they shift the spine so that a spine with multiple ticks becomes a sharp, flawless spine, haven't they improved the appearance of the book, even though the ticks are there still there on the back cover? Doesn't this particular book look better than it did before?

 

Not trying to defend the practice exactly, but if you are willing to accept pressing in general, is this step necessarily out of bounds?

 

And if getting rid of pressing isn't going to happen (partly, at least, because it can be very hard to detect), then it would appear we are stuck with this practice as well. Even though these books have a distinctive look, that look also appears naturally in some SA books, as someone noted. So determining definitively that this particular manipulation has taken place would be difficult, even if CGC had a mind to do so.

 

I dont know, to me it's completely different.

 

Like i said before, i dont mind pressing or buying pressed books. If a press takers away some faults that time and wear have put on a book and restore it to what it looked like years earlier, i dont have a problem with that.

 

Thats not whats happening here though. That Avengers 1 was restored to what it used to look like. It was completely changed and now is a different book with a different wrap to apparently successfully fool CGC into giving it a higher grade.

 

CGC has a lot of explaining to do on this imo. I dont care where the faults are, if its the spine or back cover. If a book has enough faults to make it a "weak" 8.5, no amount of shifting those faults around should bump it to a 9.2

[markseifert]

And if getting rid of pressing isn't going to happen (partly, at least, because it can be very hard to detect), then it would appear we are stuck with this practice as well. Even though these books have a distinctive look, that look also appears naturally in some SA books, as someone noted. So determining definitively that this particular manipulation has taken place would be difficult, even if CGC had a mind to do so.

 

Well, if the market doesn't reward the practice $$$-wise, then it will stop.

 

In practice, everyone's going to start look skeptically at books with this pretty obvious roll-to-the-back telltale, and particularly in high grade, the books may not bring the premium the number grade would otherwise merit.

 

Also: even though this can occur "naturally", thinking about all the spine rolls I have ever seen... am I wrong to think that a roll-to-the-front spine roll is FAR more common? (due to the way that books tilt when stacked flat on top of each other) I think it will be pretty easy for people to start thinking "hm, spine roll-to-the-back, something might be going on there", even though that's going to catch some "natural" spine rolls too.

[Spiderphill]

Just kinda thinking out loud here. If they shift the spine so that a spine with multiple ticks becomes a sharp, flawless spine, haven't they improved the appearance of the book, even though the ticks are there still there on the back cover? Doesn't this particular book look better than it did before?

 

Not trying to defend the practice exactly, but if you are willing to accept pressing in general, is this step necessarily out of bounds?

 

And if getting rid of pressing isn't going to happen (partly, at least, because it can be very hard to detect), then it would appear we are stuck with this practice as well. Even though these books have a distinctive look, that look also appears naturally in some SA books, as someone noted. So determining definitively that this particular manipulation has taken place would be difficult, even if CGC had a mind to do so.

it does look better with the spine but it looks like an asm 9 wrap with interiors fanning out. Double edge sword. You get an artificial spine that looks good but the interior looks horrible.

[drbanner]

Also: even though this can occur "naturally", thinking about all the spine rolls I have ever seen... am I wrong to think that a roll-to-the-front spine roll is FAR more common? (due to the way that books tilt when stacked flat on top of each other) I think it will be pretty easy for people to start thinking "hm, spine roll-to-the-back, something might be going on there", even though that's going to catch some "natural" spine rolls too.

 

Yes, but since books can be manufactured like the Avengers 1 now looks, it's not something that would jump out at you. The fanning of the pages (extending beyond the right edge of the front cover) hurts the eye appeal of books tremendously to me, so I've always avoided books like that and will avoid them altogether now that this latest "pre-submittal manipulation technique" has been exposed. Whew, dodged a bullet!

 

But how do I deal with the intentional destruction of books like the Batman 1 where the owner added tape to the cover and interior to bump up the grade, but it's not noted on the label? Bad stuff...

[Gotham Kid]

But how do I deal with the intentional destruction of books like the Batman 1 where the owner added tape to the cover and interior to bump up the grade, but it's not noted on the label? Bad stuff...

 

Indeed it is.

 

Tape on interior cover an centerfold

[Gotham Kid]

In any case I'd like to thank the OP for having had this seller flagged. Though he has a very interesting inventory, he won't be getting any of my $.

[Dark Knight]

In any case I'd like to thank the OP for having had this seller flagged. Though he has a very interesting inventory, he won't be getting any of my $.

 

Nor mine. I recently made an offer on one of his books before learning about this new pressing style. Glad I didn't accept his counter-offer.