XXXXX

[Hibou]

I find it interesting that you didn't disclose your manipulation of the staple until a bunch of people noted that it looked off.

 

Generous word.

 

+1

[RockMyAmadeus]

I like the 9.0 grading

 

OK, since no one wants to thread to end I will add this:

 

Believe what you will...the staples have not been removed...the bottom staple may look weird but that is the way it is....however, I will admit to reattaching staple prongs ..without removing staple.

 

If you had any experience with staple removal/replacement, you wouldn't say that...or, you're lying.

 

The bottom staple doesn't look "weird", BOTH staples look precisely like they would if they had been opened and closed again.

 

"Other third party grading"....

 

Daniel Patterson doesn't know how to detect most restoration, and Borock will (rightfully) hammer your book.

[joeypost]

is this the book in question? I missed the initial scans

 

 

4.0-4.5 PLOD Looks like staples replaced. GLWTS

 

I just noticed this thread. Without rehashing what everyone else has already said about the staples I have to ask if the book was disassembled and the staples pushed through a different section of the spine to make sure they stayed attached? Lots look off to me about this book (it has an unusual plumpness associated with it) that lends me to believe that the spine is no longer laying on its original center. Please forgive me if this was discussed and I missed it.

 

 

[Spiderphill]

HAha...you guys are funny!

Why not answer the question I put out....

Would you leave staple unattached or try to reattach?

 

You saw a close up image of the staples...what more is there to say?

Do you know what your books look like inside once sealed?

 

Me thinks Chip may be right.

"Ruined" for reattaching a staple! OMG!

 

Only the comic industry makes a big deal of repairing a book. Color touch and trim is another story. But arrival tape seals...reattaching a staple are all for preservation.

 

Amazing how a number of you talk about pressing be OK. "If I were to have pressed.." and so on. That IS NOT RESTORATION but reattach a staple..that was once attached....OMG...send me to red_rocks!

 

CGC and others are revising their "restoration" stance for good reason!

 

And for those who continue to harp on staples...they are most certainly original...and were never removed...fishy or not.

 

No doubt a professional grader will know that...although to me who gives a rats if a staple were changed....for instance a rusted staple. Why would I want it to sit there? There are many staples that can be found from lessor books that would be just fine replacement. But somehow, someway....people from a photo can claim replaced staple.....fishy etc....

 

Preserving a comic should be the goal....if it is for repair the term restoration should not be used and the owner should not be impacted with a purple or even a green label for that matter.....it should only be used when it makes a book appear to be better than it is....fixing a staple...sealing a tear (tear still visible) should not count against a book. IMHO

 

Who agrees? Who does not?

 

 

 

 

 

bro conserve my books too. Gonna pm you my info.

[storypapers]

LOT of hostility here.....yet no one so far responded to the questions I asked...

 

Just spoke to a grader...he said staple reattachment not restoration.

I doubt any third party would consider it so....

Just dumb to think it is...sorry...

 

And if not attached...would it affect the grade either way..as long as top staple attached?

 

And...

 

WHERE DOES IT SAY REATTACHING A STAPLE IS RESTORATION???

 

Yes, I have removed staples in the past....I DID NOT REMOVE THESE!

Believe what you wish...

 

Book is already on its way...I'll have it back next week....

[HighStakesComics]

LOT of hostility here.....yet no one so far responded to the questions I asked...

 

Just spoke to a grader...he said staple reattachment not restoration.

I doubt any third party would consider it so....

Just dumb to think it is...sorry...

 

And if not attached...would it affect the grade either way..as long as top staple attached?

 

And...

 

WHERE DOES IT SAY REATTACHING A STAPLE IS RESTORATION???

 

Yes, I have removed staples in the past....I DID NOT REMOVE THESE!

Believe what you wish...

 

Book is already on its way...I'll have it back next week....

 

[Hibou]

Joey mentioned the book being dissembled and I wondered the same... the question of a possible reverse spine roll (which Joey alluded to as well) is rather intriguing.

 

To the OP, your comments about rusty staple removal for the sake of conservation are noted and I would agree.

[HighStakesComics]

Quick question. Typically when you see reverse spine roll all the pages are uniform in the way they "fan". Would the fact that the centerfold juts out further than the other pages just be a symptom of the staple work, or is that more indicative of a married centerfold? Thanks in advance......

[zuulioso]

LOT of hostility here.....yet no one so far responded to the questions I asked...

 

Just spoke to a grader...he said staple reattachment not restoration.

I doubt any third party would consider it so....

Just dumb to think it is...sorry...

 

And if not attached...would it affect the grade either way..as long as top staple attached?

 

And...

 

WHERE DOES IT SAY REATTACHING A STAPLE IS RESTORATION???

 

Yes, I have removed staples in the past....I DID NOT REMOVE THESE!

Believe what you wish...

 

Book is already on its way...I'll have it back next week....

 

If you just spoke to a grader, it would seem you don't need random internet people to answer your questions.

[storypapers]

True I don't need ...but like to get opinions....even if I do not always agree.

Reality is that people also crack out items and sometimes get hurt and find surprises...or at times actually do better than the 3rd party graded because many collectors don't care about more minor defects that a 3rd party may or may not deem as a deduction.

 

Not sure where Mr. Blaze now see married pages!!!

 

Amazing what one can see once they have a doubt about something, even if wrong.

 

Perhaps it is a married cover too??!!!

 

Graders are just that graders..they are not the be all and end all, that is why CVA adds their 2 cents and why same grades sell at sometimes radically different prices.

 

A book should be graded by its entirety..not downplayed for a defect, a correction or repair. The book is the way you see it!

 

Makes no difference if thought to have a married cover, replaced or removed staples...or whatever! At this time and place..the book is what it is...

 

What this book is not..is restored...color touch..added pieces, tear seals (would be repair), and certainly not married cover or pages.....but the 3rd party should be able to tell.

 

Joey...you seem to think this book once had a spine roll. Could be....but isn't that what you do get rid of spine rolls, press out bumps etc...? Give that is what you do....isn't in preferable to be the way your see it now..without one?

 

 

 

[Red84]

So where did you send it to get graded? And did you submit it for pressing first?

[storypapers]

Red

 

Not getting it pressed...happy the way it is....and how long does it take Joey to get to it now....2-3 months!!!

That said...I probably will get something else pressed by him....which I can sit and wait on...

 

I hate waiting!

 

Are we now OK...or you want to sling a few more arrows!~

[thirdgreenham]

No arrows. I just want the last word.

[DR.X]

LOT of hostility here....

I don't really see a lot of hostility here. You asked some questions, and based on what we can see from the pics, you don't like the answers.

 

And for those who continue to harp on staples...they are most certainly original...and were never removed...fishy or not.

 

If you are not the original owner of the book, how can you make this claim?

 

.Just spoke to a grader...he said staple reattachment not restoration.

 

Mind telling us who this grader was? And were did you send it to have it certified. Just curious.

 

 

 

 

[MR SigS]

Believe what you will...the staples have not been removed

 

Are you the original owner?

 

No not original owner...

 

 

Umm...

Are you Omniscient?

Will you at least concede that it is possible some restoration work was attempted there? We're just curious how you KNOW nothing has been done to it (by someone else).

[joeypost]

True I don't need ...but like to get opinions....even if I do not always agree.

Reality is that people also crack out items and sometimes get hurt and find surprises...or at times actually do better than the 3rd party graded because many collectors don't care about more minor defects that a 3rd party may or may not deem as a deduction.

 

Not sure where Mr. Blaze now see married pages!!!

 

Amazing what one can see once they have a doubt about something, even if wrong.

 

Perhaps it is a married cover too??!!!

 

Graders are just that graders..they are not the be all and end all, that is why CVA adds their 2 cents and why same grades sell at sometimes radically different prices.

 

A book should be graded by its entirety..not downplayed for a defect, a correction or repair. The book is the way you see it!

 

Makes no difference if thought to have a married cover, replaced or removed staples...or whatever! At this time and place..the book is what it is...

 

What this book is not..is restored...color touch..added pieces, tear seals (would be repair), and certainly not married cover or pages.....but the 3rd party should be able to tell.

 

Joey...you seem to think this book once had a spine roll. Could be....but isn't that what you do get rid of spine rolls, press out bumps etc...? Give that is what you do....isn't in preferable to be the way your see it now..without one?

 

 

 

I was just thinking out loud. Yes, removing spine roll is one of the things I do when pressing a book so I don't see that as a big deal. My concern is that the spine was shifted, the staples inserted into new holes instead of the original ones to attach a popped cover or staple at one time in the books past. Hulk #1 is my favorite book of all time and I have an affinity for it. With that said, it has a look to it that makes it suspicious that the staples and spine were "adjusted" at some point in the books past.

[joeypost]

Red

 

Not getting it pressed...happy the way it is....and how long does it take Joey to get to it now....2-3 months!!!

That said...I probably will get something else pressed by him....which I can sit and wait on...

 

I hate waiting!

 

Are we now OK...or you want to sling a few more arrows!~

 

4 weeks.

[RockMyAmadeus]

LOT of hostility here.....yet no one so far responded to the questions I asked...

 

Just spoke to a grader...he said staple reattachment not restoration.

I doubt any third party would consider it so....

Just dumb to think it is...sorry...

 

And if not attached...would it affect the grade either way..as long as top staple attached?

 

And...

 

WHERE DOES IT SAY REATTACHING A STAPLE IS RESTORATION???

 

Yes, I have removed staples in the past....I DID NOT REMOVE THESE!

Believe what you wish...

 

Book is already on its way...I'll have it back next week....

 

You already admitted to "reattaching staple prongs" (whatever that means.)

 

Whether the staples are original to this book or not, the fact is, the legs of the staples have been opened, which almost always results in the telltale enlarging of the original staple holes in the centerfold. The reason for this is that (and the physics nerds can explain this better than I can) the staple is strongest at the apex of the "bend", and since you can almost never apply the correct opposing pressure at that apex (it usually being buried under the cover and pages), you almost always end up bending the staple at another, weaker point along the leg...which in turn creates that larger hole to accommodate for metal that wasn't there before suddenly pressing against it.

 

Even if you do manage to unbend the staple precisely at the original bend, you're still putting pressure on the holes of the cover and every single page, because of the way the staples were added to the book in the first place (the staple holes having "exploded" in a precise way, and then settled over the years.)

 

Also...once you open those legs, it's nearly impossible to close them back up so that they "lie" in the original leg indents on either side of the centerfold. That's also a telltale sign (exhibited by your book) that the staples have been fiddled with.

 

Wear and tear (specifically, pressure on the centerfold independent of the other pages) CAN create these kinds of holes, it's true...but it's not very natural (that is, it requires a rather specific type of very light, repetitive pressure), and usually results in the centerfold simply becoming detached. What is even more telling is that the tears extend OUT from the bend, rather than in both directions (meaning, the pressure was only applied in an outward direction, not in both directions, which would be the case in a "normal handling" type situation.) When the damage is done AWAY from the staple legs, in both directions, and there is little to no damage TOWARDS the center of the staple...well, you're not looking at normal handling wear.

 

Granted, this look can also happen when a staple is "rebent" to "grab" the centerfold a little more firmly, but that still requires the staple to be unbent in the first place. And...if ALL the pages likewise exhibit such increasing of their hole size...well, simple physics tells you that kind of pressure doesn't exist as a result of normal handling. After all, the staples are only held in place by the paper, and vice versa. How can an interior wrap have an englarged hole, when it is not naturally subject to the forces that the centerfold and cover are? The interior wraps are not only held in place by the staples, they are protected by the centerfold and cover, and wear and tear almost always goes from the outside in (that is, the kind of normal wear and tear that would produce those kind of holes on, say, the 4th wrap, would have totally detached the cover and/or centerfold already.)

 

You simply cannot "undo" what was done without disturbing the paper in some way, unless you can do it with fine precision tools on a microscopic level...or, you cut the legs off of the staple, without touching the paper beneath...and then you have the new problem of adding new staples, and bending them precisely the way the original staples were, again, without disturbing the extremely fragile paper in the process.

 

It's really one of the easiest things to detect. Disassembly is not considered restoration by CGC, no...but it almost always results in some level of damage to the paper. It takes a tremendous amount of steadiness, skill, and patience to remove staples without doing much damage to the staple holes. Whether you only opened the legs, or took the pages off the staples, or whatever, the fact is, it was done, and it was obvious that it was done. When it is combined with leg indent unalignment, the diagnosis is almost always because of staple fiddling.

[mackenzie999]

Whether the staples are original to this book or not,...

 

Very informative post, thank you!

[Hibou]

LOT of hostility here.....yet no one so far responded to the questions I asked...

 

Just spoke to a grader...he said staple reattachment not restoration.

I doubt any third party would consider it so....

Just dumb to think it is...sorry...

 

And if not attached...would it affect the grade either way..as long as top staple attached?

 

And...

 

WHERE DOES IT SAY REATTACHING A STAPLE IS RESTORATION???

 

Yes, I have removed staples in the past....I DID NOT REMOVE THESE!

Believe what you wish...

 

Book is already on its way...I'll have it back next week....

 

You already admitted to "reattaching staple prongs" (whatever that means.)

 

Whether the staples are original to this book or not, the fact is, the legs of the staples have been opened, which almost always results in the telltale enlarging of the original staple holes in the centerfold. The reason for this is that (and the physics nerds can explain this better than I can) the staple is strongest at the apex of the "bend", and since you can almost never apply the correct opposing pressure at that apex (it usually being buried under the cover and pages), you almost always end up bending the staple at another, weaker point along the leg...which in turn creates that larger hole to accommodate for metal that wasn't there before suddenly pressing against it.

 

Even if you do manage to unbend the staple precisely at the original bend, you're still putting pressure on the holes of the cover and every single page, because of the way the staples were added to the book in the first place (the staple holes having "exploded" in a precise way, and then settled over the years.)

 

Also...once you open those legs, it's nearly impossible to close them back up so that they "lie" in the original leg indents on either side of the centerfold. That's also a telltale sign (exhibited by your book) that the staples have been fiddled with.

 

Wear and tear (specifically, pressure on the centerfold independent of the other pages) CAN create these kinds of holes, it's true...but it's not very natural (that is, it requires a rather specific type of very light, repetitive pressure), and usually results in the centerfold simply becoming detached. What is even more telling is that the tears extend OUT from the bend, rather than in both directions (meaning, the pressure was only applied in an outward direction, not in both directions, which would be the case in a "normal handling" type situation.) When the damage is done AWAY from the staple legs, in both directions, and there is little to no damage TOWARDS the center of the staple...well, you're not looking at normal handling wear.

 

Granted, this look can also happen when a staple is "rebent" to "grab" the centerfold a little more firmly, but that still requires the staple to be unbent in the first place. And...if ALL the pages likewise exhibit such increasing of their hole size...well, simple physics tells you that kind of pressure doesn't exist as a result of normal handling. After all, the staples are only held in place by the paper, and vice versa. How can an interior wrap have an englarged hole, when it is not naturally subject to the forces that the centerfold and cover are? The interior wraps are not only held in place by the staples, they are protected by the centerfold and cover, and wear and tear almost always goes from the outside in (that is, the kind of normal wear and tear that would produce those kind of holes on, say, the 4th wrap, would have totally detached the cover and/or centerfold already.)

 

You simply cannot "undo" what was done without disturbing the paper in some way, unless you can do it with fine precision tools on a microscopic level...or, you cut the legs off of the staple, without touching the paper beneath...and then you have the new problem of adding new staples, and bending them precisely the way the original staples were, again, without disturbing the extremely fragile paper in the process.

 

It's really one of the easiest things to detect. Disassembly is not considered restoration by CGC, no...but it almost always results in some level of damage to the paper. It takes a tremendous amount of steadiness, skill, and patience to remove staples without doing much damage to the staple holes. Whether you only opened the legs, or took the pages off the staples, or whatever, the fact is, it was done, and it was obvious that it was done. When it is combined with leg indent unalignment, the diagnosis is almost always because of staple fiddling.