Cerebus 1 a more valuable key than Hulk 181? Really Overstreet? Poll on Page 87 3 3

[RockMyAmadeus]

Quoting Aristotle are we? It's actually simpler than that. Anyone who disagrees with you is illogical and emotional. Your pseudo-apologies and subsequent bragging about applying rhetorical skills to invoke a logical argument is comical.

 

Oh, I apologize if I offended you.

 

Hilarious, a braggart who sites Aristotle! As this thread moves along we can see how you apply Russell's Theory of Description to your rhetorical skills to further enhance your logic.

 

I'm sorry if this offended you but I too am keeping my skills sharp.

 

Where?

 

BEHIND YOU! LOOK OUT!!!!

 

 

ZOMBIE ARISTOTLE MUST EAT BRAINS. YUMMY, SMART BRAINS!!!

 

(Phew. At least I'm safe!)

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

Now there you go again with the "I'm right" and "everyone else who disagrees with your position is "emotional" and "irrational." The rhetorician going on the attack.

 

I don't think you read what I wrote.

 

I *just* told you that there is disagreement, and there is emotional and irrational, and the two are not the same.

 

Why don't you stop beating a dead horse?

 

Because you want to continue beating it with me?

 

:shrug:

 

Did you know that asking others why they "won't stop arguing" while they, themselves, continue to argue is irrational....?

 

 

People disagree with you. Is that hard for you to accept?

 

Not at all. It is the reason WHY you disagree that is the issue.

 

The rhetorician apologizing? I was making fun of your insincere apology to me. Look who's getting emotional while concurrently hiding behind the "mask of logic?"

 

 

Who...?

 

However, my apology was not insincere. I always strive for basic understanding, without which, dialogue is impossible. If you don't understand what I said, everything after that is just noise.

 

Do you have the ability to read people's minds? I find you to be funny throughout this incorrigible attempt to defend the value of an aardvark's comic book when compared the that of one of the 4 iconic characters in comic book history. Lighten up. Am I being emotional?

 

Yes. Do you recognize that?

 

 

Your very words betray you. Despite the fact...proven, demonstrable, recorded, unavoidable fact...that a Cerebus #1 9.4 has sold on four different occasions for substantially more than a Hulk #181 9.4 has ever sold, you stubbornly hold on to the notion that that simply isn't true, and shouldn't be.

 

In one sentence, you dismiss Cerebus and vaunt Wolverine, and complain that it's not fair that Cerebus #1 in the highest grades is more valuable than Hulk #181.

 

That is the basis of your argument: you don't think it's fair that Cerebus #1 is more valuable, because you like Wolverine better. Supply, demand, scarcity in high grade, these things mean nothing to you, because it's not fair that ANY copy of Cerebus should be worth more than Hulk #181.

 

This is the heart of emotional irrationalism.

 

But please, don't take it personally. None of this has been personal. I have been irrational before; we all have. It's part of life. It's how we deal with it that really determines who we are. I am not offended by your statements, nor should you be mine.

[bronze johnny]

 

Now there you go again with the "I'm right" and "everyone else who disagrees with your position is "emotional" and "irrational." The rhetorician going on the attack.

 

I don't think you read what I wrote.

 

I *just* told you that there is disagreement, and there is emotional and irrational, and the two are not the same.

 

Why don't you stop beating a dead horse?

 

Because you want to continue beating it with me?

 

:shrug:

 

Did you know that asking others why they "won't stop arguing" while they, themselves, continue to argue is irrational....?

 

 

People disagree with you. Is that hard for you to accept?

 

Not at all. It is the reason WHY you disagree that is the issue.

 

The rhetorician apologizing? I was making fun of your insincere apology to me. Look who's getting emotional while concurrently hiding behind the "mask of logic?"

 

 

Who...?

 

However, my apology was not insincere. I always strive for basic understanding, without which, dialogue is impossible. If you don't understand what I said, everything after that is just noise.

 

Do you have the ability to read people's minds? I find you to be funny throughout this incorrigible attempt to defend the value of an aardvark's comic book when compared the that of one of the 4 iconic characters in comic book history. Lighten up. Am I being emotional?

 

Yes. Do you recognize that?

 

 

Your very words betray you. Despite the fact...proven, demonstrable, recorded, unavoidable fact...that a Cerebus #1 9.4 has sold on four different occasions for substantially more than a Hulk #181 9.4 has ever sold, you stubbornly hold on to the notion that that simply isn't true, and shouldn't be.

 

In one sentence, you dismiss Cerebus and vaunt Wolverine, and complain that it's not fair that Cerebus #1 in the highest grades is more valuable than Hulk #181.

 

That is the basis of your argument: you don't think it's fair that Cerebus #1 is more valuable, because you like Wolverine better. Supply, demand, scarcity in high grade, these things mean nothing to you, because it's not fair that ANY copy of Cerebus should be worth more than Hulk #181.

 

This is the heart of emotional irrationalism.

 

But please, don't take it personally. None of this has been personal. I have been irrational before; we all have. It's part of life. It's how we deal with it that really determines who we are. I am not offended by your statements, nor should you be mine.

 

I don't take it personally. I just find you amusing.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

I don't take it personally. I just find you amusing.

 

If you don't take it personally, you should refrain (well, you should refrain, regardless) from calling my apologies "pseudo", "insincere", and making erroneous absolute statements like "anyone who disagrees with you is irrational and emotional", and other such inflammatory statements, whether the recipient is inflamed by them or not.

 

Fair enough?

 

[bronze johnny]

I call it the way I see it. Fair enough?

[Jaydogrules]

Jaydog;

 

I think you guys should just take a look at the OS guide for these 2 listings and admit that Overstreet got it right, based upon the following:

 

1) Hulk 181 is signficantly more valuable than Cerebus 1 in the lower grades, with this differential decreasing on a percentage basis as we move up the grading scale, which actually reflects the rising price of Cerebus 1 in the real world as it becomes more scarce in nicer condition;

 

2) Cerebus 1 is more valuable than Hulk 181 in the HG 9.2 condition, as clearly evident by comparable historical sales in 9.2 and above;

 

3) Overstreet does not attempt to place a valuation for uber HG copies, and in particular, not for CGC 9.9 copies of any book;

 

4) The prices in the OS guide are reflective of comic book valuations, as opposed to comic book popularity; and

 

5) These valuations are not based upon the quantities of a particular book sold, otherwise the latest newstand issue of Action Comics would be worth more than Action Comics #1.

 

I know and completely understand that it must be hard for you to accept the above facts, but it's totally okay and actually healthy for you to admit that you are wrong every now and then.

 

...and even in the world of Overstreet, using its own limited and selective methodology this is your game changer:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/INCREDIBLE-HULK-181-WHITE-PAGES-CGC-GRADED-9-2-NOVEMBER-1974-/400755267796?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item5d4ee018d4

 

-J.

 

Except that now you're trying to use a case where one sale or a handful of sales is actually irrelevant. If there are only a handful of sales, but they are consistent, that is the value. If there are a large quantity of sales and a handful that fall outside the range of the majority, the majority is the value, not the outliers.

 

Of course, that may actually be the value for Hulk 181 in 9.2 going forward, but that remains to be seen.

 

Again, now everyone is trying to use the "but it's scarce" argument to their advantage, and hulk 181's greater numbers in grade to its potential disadvantage (other sales at 9.2 possibly diluting this high sale), when that is in fact the problem in the first place, per the OP's original post. No, three sales in ten years don't tell me anything definitive. But that Hulk 181 sale just happened. If two more like it happen in the next nine years would that prove a "trend" to you like it evidently does for Cerebus 1?

 

-J.

 

Alright...let's compare like with like.

 

Mar of 2014. One sale. Cerebus #1, CGC 9.4. $9,000.

 

No Hulk #181 in 9.4 Universal has sold for more than $3600, ever.

 

What conclusion(s) do you draw from this?

 

RMA I love you man but your arguments have completely fallen apart.

 

Now you want to look at the single highest sale figure of the single highest graded example of Cerebus (9.4) because hulk 181 has apparently now eclipsed the aardvark in a 9.2, even though this is not the grade that even overstreet uses for comparison? To you, this ONE SALE rationally and reasonably makes Cerebus 1 universally "more valuable" than hulk 181 in your opinion? Seriously ?

 

Yet you STILL don't want to discuss the single highest sale of the single highest graded example of hulk 181 for $150k? The sale of the top grade of the REAL king of the BA means nothing in your book?

 

That's just nuts. But I guess I'm the crazy one in reality, so carry on.

 

-J.

 

 

 

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

I call it the way I see it. Fair enough?

 

No, especially when "the way you see it" is easily disproven (such as "anyone who disagrees with you is emotional and irrational.")

 

You are quite obviously very offended by what I've said. I am genuinely sorry that you feel that way, but it is a feeling, and it will pass.

 

Reason should always triumph over emotion.

[Lazyboy]

Essentially the true "value" of the book is skewed mightily by the low print and nothing else.

 

 

So you're saying the value of the book is based on the low supply and the demand for the book? That's an interesting idea. I think you may have something there.

 

 

Another fun, out of context quote. Yaaaaay.

 

-J.

 

 

Actual out of context quote.

[bronze johnny]

I'm personally not offended. But like you, i have an opinion. Apologies are unnecessary.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Jaydog;

 

I think you guys should just take a look at the OS guide for these 2 listings and admit that Overstreet got it right, based upon the following:

 

1) Hulk 181 is signficantly more valuable than Cerebus 1 in the lower grades, with this differential decreasing on a percentage basis as we move up the grading scale, which actually reflects the rising price of Cerebus 1 in the real world as it becomes more scarce in nicer condition;

 

2) Cerebus 1 is more valuable than Hulk 181 in the HG 9.2 condition, as clearly evident by comparable historical sales in 9.2 and above;

 

3) Overstreet does not attempt to place a valuation for uber HG copies, and in particular, not for CGC 9.9 copies of any book;

 

4) The prices in the OS guide are reflective of comic book valuations, as opposed to comic book popularity; and

 

5) These valuations are not based upon the quantities of a particular book sold, otherwise the latest newstand issue of Action Comics would be worth more than Action Comics #1.

 

I know and completely understand that it must be hard for you to accept the above facts, but it's totally okay and actually healthy for you to admit that you are wrong every now and then.

 

...and even in the world of Overstreet, using its own limited and selective methodology this is your game changer:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/INCREDIBLE-HULK-181-WHITE-PAGES-CGC-GRADED-9-2-NOVEMBER-1974-/400755267796?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item5d4ee018d4

 

-J.

 

Except that now you're trying to use a case where one sale or a handful of sales is actually irrelevant. If there are only a handful of sales, but they are consistent, that is the value. If there are a large quantity of sales and a handful that fall outside the range of the majority, the majority is the value, not the outliers.

 

Of course, that may actually be the value for Hulk 181 in 9.2 going forward, but that remains to be seen.

 

Again, now everyone is trying to use the "but it's scarce" argument to their advantage, and hulk 181's greater numbers in grade to its potential disadvantage (other sales at 9.2 possibly diluting this high sale), when that is in fact the problem in the first place, per the OP's original post. No, three sales in ten years don't tell me anything definitive. But that Hulk 181 sale just happened. If two more like it happen in the next nine years would that prove a "trend" to you like it evidently does for Cerebus 1?

 

-J.

 

Alright...let's compare like with like.

 

Mar of 2014. One sale. Cerebus #1, CGC 9.4. $9,000.

 

No Hulk #181 in 9.4 Universal has sold for more than $3600, ever.

 

What conclusion(s) do you draw from this?

 

RMA I love you man but your arguments have completely fallen apart.

 

So you say...

 

 

Now you want to look at the single highest sale figure of the single highest graded example of Cerebus (9.4)

 

No. That is not the single highest sale figure.

 

Details, Jaydog, details.

 

because hulk 181 has apparently now eclipsed the aardvark in a 9.2,

 

That is nothing but speculation. No one has any way to prove, or disprove, this. It is pure speculation, and therefore cannot be a reasonable position to take.

 

even though this is not the grade that even overstreet uses for comparison?

 

Not the point (at this particular junction.)

 

I am asking you what conclusion(s) you draw from this recent sale.

 

To you, this ONE SALE rationally and reasonably makes Cerebus 1 "more valuable" than hulk 181 in your opinion? Seriously ?

 

NO. Stop making me repeat myself. Seriously, Jaydog, stop it.

 

I have already stated, MULTIPLE TIMES, that a SINGLE sale does not prove ANYTHING.

 

I simply asked YOU what conclusion(s) YOU draw from this.

 

 

Yet you STILL don't want to discuss the single highest sale of the single highest graded example of hulk 181 for $150k? The sale of the top grade of the REAL king of the BA means nothing in your book?

 

You're making me repeat myself. 9.9 is a FREAK GRADE, and CANNOT be used to make ANY argument about ANYTHING except in comparison to other 9.9s, and the other freak grade, 10.

 

That's just nuts. But I guess I'm the crazy one in reality, so carry on.

 

-J.

 

So...what conclusion(s) do you draw from the sale of the Cerebus #1 9.4 for $9,000?

 

[Lazyboy]

I call it the way I see it. Fair enough?

 

The problem is that "the way you see it" is affected by your irrational ideas which you try to support with your own "facts" and definitions that don't conform to reality.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I'm personally not offended. But like you, i have an opinion. Apologies are unnecessary.

 

Great!

 

So let's keep everything professional, and avoid personal comments going forward, shall we?

 

If I call your POSITION emotional and irrational, I am not (necessarily) calling YOU emotional and irrational. Separate the two, and you'll do well.

 

[Jaydogrules]

Jaydog;

 

I think you guys should just take a look at the OS guide for these 2 listings and admit that Overstreet got it right, based upon the following:

 

1) Hulk 181 is signficantly more valuable than Cerebus 1 in the lower grades, with this differential decreasing on a percentage basis as we move up the grading scale, which actually reflects the rising price of Cerebus 1 in the real world as it becomes more scarce in nicer condition;

 

2) Cerebus 1 is more valuable than Hulk 181 in the HG 9.2 condition, as clearly evident by comparable historical sales in 9.2 and above;

 

3) Overstreet does not attempt to place a valuation for uber HG copies, and in particular, not for CGC 9.9 copies of any book;

 

4) The prices in the OS guide are reflective of comic book valuations, as opposed to comic book popularity; and

 

5) These valuations are not based upon the quantities of a particular book sold, otherwise the latest newstand issue of Action Comics would be worth more than Action Comics #1.

 

I know and completely understand that it must be hard for you to accept the above facts, but it's totally okay and actually healthy for you to admit that you are wrong every now and then.

 

...and even in the world of Overstreet, using its own limited and selective methodology this is your game changer:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/INCREDIBLE-HULK-181-WHITE-PAGES-CGC-GRADED-9-2-NOVEMBER-1974-/400755267796?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item5d4ee018d4

 

-J.

 

Except that now you're trying to use a case where one sale or a handful of sales is actually irrelevant. If there are only a handful of sales, but they are consistent, that is the value. If there are a large quantity of sales and a handful that fall outside the range of the majority, the majority is the value, not the outliers.

 

Of course, that may actually be the value for Hulk 181 in 9.2 going forward, but that remains to be seen.

 

Again, now everyone is trying to use the "but it's scarce" argument to their advantage, and hulk 181's greater numbers in grade to its potential disadvantage (other sales at 9.2 possibly diluting this high sale), when that is in fact the problem in the first place, per the OP's original post. No, three sales in ten years don't tell me anything definitive. But that Hulk 181 sale just happened. If two more like it happen in the next nine years would that prove a "trend" to you like it evidently does for Cerebus 1?

 

-J.

 

Alright...let's compare like with like.

 

Mar of 2014. One sale. Cerebus #1, CGC 9.4. $9,000.

 

No Hulk #181 in 9.4 Universal has sold for more than $3600, ever.

 

What conclusion(s) do you draw from this?

 

RMA I love you man but your arguments have completely fallen apart.

 

So you say...

 

 

Now you want to look at the single highest sale figure of the single highest graded example of Cerebus (9.4)

 

No. That is not the single highest sale figure.

 

Details, Jaydog, details.

 

because hulk 181 has apparently now eclipsed the aardvark in a 9.2,

 

That is nothing but speculation. No one has any way to prove, or disprove, this. It is pure speculation, and therefore cannot be a reasonable position to take.

 

even though this is not the grade that even overstreet uses for comparison?

 

Not the point (at this particular junction.)

 

I am asking you what conclusion(s) you draw from this recent sale.

 

To you, this ONE SALE rationally and reasonably makes Cerebus 1 "more valuable" than hulk 181 in your opinion? Seriously ?

 

NO. Stop making me repeat myself. Seriously, Jaydog, stop it.

 

I have already stated, MULTIPLE TIMES, that a SINGLE sale does not prove ANYTHING.

 

I simply asked YOU what conclusion(s) YOU draw from this.

 

 

Yet you STILL don't want to discuss the single highest sale of the single highest graded example of hulk 181 for $150k? The sale of the top grade of the REAL king of the BA means nothing in your book?

 

You're making me repeat myself. 9.9 is a FREAK GRADE, and CANNOT be used to make ANY argument about ANYTHING except in comparison to other 9.9s, and the other freak grade, 10.

 

That's just nuts. But I guess I'm the crazy one in reality, so carry on.

 

-J.

 

So...what conclusion(s) do you draw from the sale of the Cerebus #1 9.4 for $9,000?

 

 

For Cerebus 1, a 9.4 is the "freak grade" (single highest). The lateral grade for hulk 181 would be the 9.9 (also the highest for that book). Hulk 181 has far more chances of getting a book in that grade because of its far greater print run than Cerebus. Again, this is the problem that the OP first mentioned with having these books on the same list and especially by having Cerebus ahead of hulk 181 on that list.

 

So I will grant you this much RMA: Yes, in a 9.4 grade (and that grade only), the five highest known graded (file?) copies of Cerebus 1 that have sold over the last decade have been higher than the 300+ copies of hulk 181 in 9.4 (with 300+ copies graded higher) have been over the same period of time.

 

However as of now, not even by the selective criterion used by overstreet (1 sale of 9.2 cerebus 1 in ten years??) does this make Cerebus 1 more "valuable" than hulk 181 (see recent 9.2 hulk 181 sale linked earlier in thread).

 

And since we have already established that hulk 181 sells for more than Cerebus 1 in literally every single grade (other than the 4 sales in 9.4), I am struggling to see what it is left that you're arguing for, other than your apparent pride and pride of ownership in your copy of Cerebus 1. Cerebus 1 has five highest graded copies that have periodically sold for more thank hulk 181 in a 9.4 grade does not equate to "Cerebus 1 is more valuable than hulk 181."

 

-J.

[porcupine48]

If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with wildly_fanciful_statement

 

I like Dazzler.They should make a movie.

[Lazyboy]

For Cerebus 1, a 9.4 is the "freak grade" (single highest).

Wow.

[porcupine48]

This thread is making me emotional.

Does that prove that I exist?

[Prince Namor]

For Cerebus 1, a 9.4 is the "freak grade" (single highest).

Wow.

 

Wow is right. Especially since a 9.4 File Copy SS sold for $10,600 in 2004 and two others sold in-between that for $7700... it's averaged $8780 over a TEN YEAR PERIOD.

 

That's pretty amazing.

 

In that same time, Hulk #181 has topped out at $3300 for Blue Label and $4300 for SS over that same period.

 

If I was a dealer and I had the option to buy just one of them for $500 to flip....

 

Why WOULDN'T it be Cerebus?

[HighStakesComics]

For Cerebus 1, a 9.4 is the "freak grade" (single highest).

Wow.

 

Wow is right. Especially since a 9.4 File Copy SS sold for $10,600 in 2004 and two others sold in-between that for $7700... it's averaged $8780 over a TEN YEAR PERIOD.

 

That's pretty amazing.

 

In that same time, Hulk #181 has topped out at $3300 for Blue Label and $4300 for SS over that same period.

 

If I was a dealer and I had the option to buy just one of them for $500 to flip....

 

Why WOULDN'T it be Cerebus?

 

If you think it has a shot at 9.4 or better, you take Cerebus and don't bat an eye. If its mid grade-VF you jump on the 181. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here. Maybe an easier question would be why are both these books behind GL 76 on the list?

[Prince Namor]

This thread is making me emotional.

Does that prove that I exist?

 

“Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent.”

― Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian, or the Evening Redness in the West

[Jaydogrules]

For Cerebus 1, a 9.4 is the "freak grade" (single highest).

Wow.

 

Yes wow. Wow for the selective data points (now down to a whopping four) that the few remaining Cerebus 1 apologists are using to rationalize a thoroughly defeated position.

 

-J.