Cerebus 1 a more valuable key than Hulk 181? Really Overstreet? Poll on Page 87 3 3

[OliverS-migration]

So, if you had only one opportunity in your life time to add only one of these books to your collection in CGC 9.2 which would it be?

 

Hulk 181

 

or

 

Cerebus 1

 

Remember, only one chance in a lifetime to pick one of these 2 books (and both happen to be CGC 9.2s with white pages).

 

Me personally? The Cerebus 1. But that has nothing to do with this discussion.

 

I would take a 35 cent Scooby Doo #1 over either of them, and I demand to see it crack the OSPG Top Ten immediately.

 

So would I

 

So, you're ok with never having Hulk 181 in your collection? A variant is more significant to you?

 

I can get a Hulk 181 every day of the week. I'd take the Scooby even in vastly lower grade.

 

Lets take an average BMW... and an average Toyota. Which one is more valuable? The BMW.

 

Now, let's say someone found 10.000 more of each (or the companies decided to make 10.000 more of each..same thing) then .... which oen is now the more valuable?

 

Obviously still the BMW... it is just a better and more valuable car..

 

right?

 

Now...

 

Let's say someone found 10.000 H181s and 10.000 Scooby 1s...(all in 9.4 grade)

 

As a dealer.... which load would you buy?

 

The 10.000 IH181s.. or the 10.000 Scooby 1s?

 

Think like a businessman....which one...?

Alex he was kidding:)

[RockMyAmadeus]

1) Prior to ebay, GPA, the internet, and cell phones, Overstreet relied on reports from dealers and LCS for its data. Guess what dude, it's 2014 now. He MAY still get SOME info that way still, but the vast majority of data is readily available to the public, and easily verifiable by anyone in this day and age.

 

2) The most recent sale of a Hulk 181 beats anything a Cerebus 1 has ever sold for in a 9.2. Don't have any public sales in a 9.2 for a Cerebus 1 in nearly 10 years? That's not Hulk 181's problem. Anything you "think" a 9.2 would go for now is just speculation. But estimates have been 2500-2800, based on the recent, verifiable sale of an 8.5 (fourth highest graded) which could barely eek out a meager $850.

 

 

1) Really? Would you care to show me sales data from every small local comic show, every major convention, every dealer website, etc. for the last year? Certainly more sales data is publicly available now than in 1980, but give me a break.

 

2) The most recent sale of Hulk 181 9.2 is also more than any Hulk 181 has sold for (at least recently, I don't know if any sold for more ten years ago or whatever). A single sale of a common book that sells regularly is nearly meaningless.

 

..As are one or two sales of a book with a miniscule print run every 10 years. You can't have it both ways Lazy.

 

-J.

 

Yes, you can. "have it both ways" (which is not really the case here )

 

You have to go with the data you have.

 

The data you have on the Hulk #181 states that you are being quite unreasonable using the most extreme price the book has ever sold for in that grade as a valid example.

 

You're right, I agree. We work with what we have. And right now, for a hulk 181, 9.2, that's what we have. We also have this now:

 

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=incredible+hulk+181&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=1&LH_Sold=1&_mPrRngCbx=1&_udlo=1000&_udhi=10000000&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=15&_stpos=&_sargn=-1%26saslc%3D1&_salic=1&_sanli=1&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=200&LH_Complete=1

 

Look, there's a 7.0 that just broke $1000 for the first time, just four days after the new 9.2 high. That means that a hulk 181, 7.0 is now 15% more "valuable" than a cerebus 1, 8.5. According to our most recent sales data.

 

-J.

 

I don't think anyone has ever disputed that.

 

Why do you hate Hulk #181, Dan? Honest question.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

So, if you had only one opportunity in your life time to add only one of these books to your collection in CGC 9.2 which would it be?

 

Hulk 181

 

or

 

Cerebus 1

 

Remember, only one chance in a lifetime to pick one of these 2 books (and both happen to be CGC 9.2s with white pages).

 

Me personally? The Cerebus 1. But that has nothing to do with this discussion.

 

I would take a 35 cent Scooby Doo #1 over either of them, and I demand to see it crack the OSPG Top Ten immediately.

 

So would I

 

So, you're ok with never having Hulk 181 in your collection? A variant is more significant to you?

 

I can get a Hulk 181 every day of the week. I'd take the Scooby even in vastly lower grade.

 

Lets take an average BMW... and an average Toyota. Which one is more valuable? The BMW.

 

Now, let's say someone found 10.000 more of each (or the companies decided to make 10.000 more of each..same thing) then .... which oen is now the more valuable?

 

Obviously still the BMW... it is just a better and more valuable car..

 

right?

 

Now...

 

Let's say someone found 10.000 H181s and 10.000 Scooby 1s...(all in 9.4 grade)

 

As a dealer.... which load would you buy?

 

The 10.000 IH181s.. or the 10.000 Scooby 1s?

 

Think like a businessman....which one...?

 

You're now comparing cars to comic books....?

 

What if the moon was made of gold? Would you arrange a trip there to mine some?

[bronze johnny]

So, if you had only one opportunity in your life time to add only one of these books to your collection in CGC 9.2 which would it be?

 

Hulk 181

 

or

 

Cerebus 1

 

Remember, only one chance in a lifetime to pick one of these 2 books (and both happen to be CGC 9.2s with white pages).

 

Me personally? The Cerebus 1. But that has nothing to do with this discussion.

 

I would take a 35 cent Scooby Doo #1 over either of them, and I demand to see it crack the OSPG Top Ten immediately.

 

So would I

 

So, you're ok with never having Hulk 181 in your collection? A variant is more significant to you?

"What you collect sucks! What I collect RULES!!!"

 

 

I don't have a problem with that. Hulk 181 along with GS X-Men 1 had such a tremendous impact on the history of the American Comic Book. The next 3 decades were dominated by the Mutants. And Wolverine stood as he does now, at the top of this age. Very easy to say what you don't have SUX,, but you can't say this particular book SUX. The fact that you prefer any book to Hulk 181 is your right but you can't say Wolverine's first appearance SUX just like you can't say the Spidey's first app. SUX too.

 

There are quotation marks for a reason. YOU are the one saying "what you collect sucks, what I collect rules!!, not I, which is the attitude you are displaying. I respect whatever someone is interested in collecting, and I give preference to those collectors who seek the truly scarce, difficult to obtain books.

 

I have owned multiple Hulk #181s. I have never even SEEN a Scooby Doo #1 35 cent variant in person.

 

See Oakman's sig line for further info.

 

A once in a lifetime opportunity to own an iconic book like Hulk 181 will for most collectors be a crowning achievement even if there are plenty around. Relatively speaking, there are plenty of AF 15s around too. In time, the many Hulk 181s will be sought after by future generations especially since Wolverine's staying power continues to rise. It's just a matter of time.

 

Hulk #181? Crowning achievement?

 

The Bronze Age equivalent to playing T-Ball?

 

No thanks.

 

I've got far bigger Detective Comics #27s to fry.

 

 

Don't put words in my mouth. That's not what I said. You really amuse me. And please don't apologize again. I can't stop laughing.

[AlexanderM]

So, if you had only one opportunity in your life time to add only one of these books to your collection in CGC 9.2 which would it be?

 

Hulk 181

 

or

 

Cerebus 1

 

Remember, only one chance in a lifetime to pick one of these 2 books (and both happen to be CGC 9.2s with white pages).

 

Me personally? The Cerebus 1. But that has nothing to do with this discussion.

 

I would take a 35 cent Scooby Doo #1 over either of them, and I demand to see it crack the OSPG Top Ten immediately.

 

So would I

 

So, you're ok with never having Hulk 181 in your collection? A variant is more significant to you?

 

I can get a Hulk 181 every day of the week. I'd take the Scooby even in vastly lower grade.

 

Lets take an average BMW... and an average Toyota. Which one is more valuable? The BMW.

 

Now, let's say someone found 10.000 more of each (or the companies decided to make 10.000 more of each..same thing) then .... which oen is now the more valuable?

 

Obviously still the BMW... it is just a better and more valuable car..

 

right?

 

Now...

 

Let's say someone found 10.000 H181s and 10.000 Cerebus 1s...(all in 9.4 grade)

 

As a dealer.... which load would you buy?

 

The 10.000 IH181s.. or the 10.000 Cerebus 1s?

 

Think like a businessman....which one...?

Alex he was kidding:)

 

Ok...

 

Fixed btw...

[bronze johnny]

And please don't start a 10 page diatribe about me taking it personally

And please enough of your bragging.

[AlexanderM]

So, if you had only one opportunity in your life time to add only one of these books to your collection in CGC 9.2 which would it be?

 

Hulk 181

 

or

 

Cerebus 1

 

Remember, only one chance in a lifetime to pick one of these 2 books (and both happen to be CGC 9.2s with white pages).

 

Me personally? The Cerebus 1. But that has nothing to do with this discussion.

 

I would take a 35 cent Scooby Doo #1 over either of them, and I demand to see it crack the OSPG Top Ten immediately.

 

So would I

 

So, you're ok with never having Hulk 181 in your collection? A variant is more significant to you?

 

I can get a Hulk 181 every day of the week. I'd take the Scooby even in vastly lower grade.

 

Lets take an average BMW... and an average Toyota. Which one is more valuable? The BMW.

 

Now, let's say someone found 10.000 more of each (or the companies decided to make 10.000 more of each..same thing) then .... which oen is now the more valuable?

 

Obviously still the BMW... it is just a better and more valuable car..

 

right?

 

.....

 

Think like a businessman....which one...?

 

You're now comparing cars to comic books....?

 

What if the moon was made of gold? Would you arrange a trip there to mine some?

 

Forget my comparison then.

 

Just answer this:

 

Let's say someone found 10.000 H181s and 10.000 Cerebus 1s...(all in 9.4 grade)

 

As a dealer.... which load would you buy?

 

The 10.000 IH181s.. or the 10.000 Cerebus 1s?

 

Think like a businessman....which one...?

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

I didn't check GPA for Cerebus. I assumed it probably was more valuable because if it has just a little fan crowd it should be more valuable given the small print run. But if it cannot even outdo Hulk 181 on value given much lower print run... then there is really no discussion.

 

RMA - just this to you. You try to pick apart Jay's response, but you make so many mistakes it would fill the entire page to to the same to your posts. For example he says that 181 had a boatload more chances to get 9.9 or 10. Your answer is "I don't think you understand what 9.9 or 10 means". That is not only arrogant, it is also wrong.. He (like all of us) understands very very what 9.9 is... and no matter how strict the grade is, he is still right that the muuuuch higher print run gave the book a mich higher chance of getting 9.9. Probably 10 times, 100 times or even higher chance. That does not mean the chance is high. It might have gone 100 fold up from a very low decimal number. So it is still an extremely low chance, but it has increased many many times... and that was his point. You keep misunderstanding logic time and time again.

 

Alexander, let's lay off the hyperbole, ok? It doesn't advance your position.

 

No one "misunderstood" anything. The problem Jaydog has is that he is loose, like you, with the language. I can forgive you, as it seems like you are European, and English may not be your first language (I am perfectly happy to be corrected on this), but Jaydog has no such excuse.

 

When someone says a book has "a boatload of chances at a 9.9", it shows that they don't really understand what makes 9.9 and 10 such freaks. Is it true generally that a higher print run gives a book more chances of obtaining a 9.9?

 

Obviously.

 

However..,print run alone is not the only determining factor on whether a particular issue has an actual chance of obtaining a 9.9 or 10. There are books with literally MILLIONS of copies printed, that will never, ever get a 9.9 or 10, because of the nature of the books themselves, and the 9.9 and 10 grades. Those books, which had far, far, FAR more copies printed than Hulk #181, have ZERO chance, much less a "boatload", of ever obtaining a 9.9 or 10 (X-Force #1, for example), under the current system at CGC.

 

There are entire print runs worth of books that will never, and COULD never, obtain a 9.9 or 10, right off the presses. Those books had ZERO chance, ever, regardless of the size of their print runs.

 

Conversely, there are books with 1,000, 2,000, 5,000 copy print runs that have multiple 9.9s and/or 10s, simply because of the way they were manufactured. Far, far lower print run...but an actual "boatload" more chance at 9.9s and 10s.

 

Because print run alone isn't the determining factor.

 

Got any other examples of my many mistakes...?

 

 

 

It is obvious Hulk 181 is a far more important book.

 

It is also more valuable? This can be a bit questioned I think, but in light of Jay's analysis above the most logical answer (despite a couple of guys' attempts to use school yard tactics to pretend to be right) is that Hulk 181 is also the most valuable.

 

Which school yard tactics would those be?

 

 

The most logical answer is that Cerebus #1 is more valuable in grades 9.2 and above, because we have sales data to prove it.

 

Why do you dispute that?

 

It's cut and dried. It couldn't be clearer. Whatever sells for more is worth more.

 

Why do you gents keep disputing this?

 

And... if there was an even number of the two (let's say just as many cerebus as there are now H181) then a Cerebus would most probably be worth about the same as a Thor 158 or there about....across grades.

 

There have been more What Ifs in this thread than the entire output of Marvel since 1977.

 

What Ifs don't count.

 

What if Hulk #181 was made of gold?

 

What if Cerebus #1 was written by Thomas Jefferson?

 

What if the Titanic hadn't sunk in 1912, but carried on as a passenger ship until 1977, when it happened to be carrying the entire print run of Cerebus, and it smashed into a giant monster named Mothra over the Sea of Japan and sunk?

 

You have no idea what Cerebus #1 would be worth if it had the same number of copies extant as Hulk #181..claiming it would be worth the same as Thor #158 is complete and utter speculation, without foundation.

 

 

If you read what I said,

 

I did read what you said. Unlike some, I don't dishonor those I speak with by not even bothering to read what they write. That's rude.

 

I simply disagree with you.

 

you would know that I do not insist H181 is more valuable. But I think it is wrong to claim that Cerebus is more valuable than H181. It may be possible to make an argument that it is more worth at a few grades, while H181 is more valuable at other grades. That still does not make it right to claim that Cerebus is more valuable as an overarching statement.

 

The question is not, and has never been, which is more valuable in all grades.

 

The question has always been "which is more valuable according to Overstreet in the highest grade OPG reports?", which morphed into which one is more valuable in the highest grades.

 

 

Is Cerebus worth more at 9.4? Perhaps.

 

There is no "perhaps" about it.

 

It is documented as such.

 

There is probably too little data to really know.

 

No, there's not.

 

There was a sale, 5 months ago, of the book for $9,000. No Hulk #181 has sold in 9.4 U for even HALF that, and even the SS copies only come to a bit over $4,000.

 

If someone found a trailer with 10.000 copies of each comic.... in grade 9.4. Would dealers then really prefer to buy the Cerebus ones?..... really?

 

I mean... if it in itself is more valuable.... surely they would... but I doubt they actually would.

 

If the queen of England was your mother, would you be able to buy all the Hulk #181s you wanted?

 

If, if, if, if.

 

Now we know of few copies.. this gives us a lack of data, and if the next 9.4 sells for half the price... that is basically the price (more or less) because there are not enough sales to really know what the FMV is. So there is a possibility it might be, or it might not be. From the insufficient data we have right this minute - it might be in 9.4.

 

The sales of the book have all been between $7,000-$10,000 or thereabouts. Four sales, all substantially higher than any Hulk #181 in 9.4, ever.

 

Why do you think the next sale might be half?

 

And yes, I'm European.. English is not my first language.

 

Huh. How did I figure that out...?

 

 

I must have used science.

[Prince Namor]

 

I didn't check GPA for Cerebus. I assumed it probably was more valuable because if it has just a little fan crowd it should be more valuable given the small print run. But if it cannot even outdo Hulk 181 on value given much lower print run... then there is really no discussion.

 

RMA - just this to you. You try to pick apart Jay's response, but you make so many mistakes it would fill the entire page to to the same to your posts. For example he says that 181 had a boatload more chances to get 9.9 or 10. Your answer is "I don't think you understand what 9.9 or 10 means". That is not only arrogant, it is also wrong.. He (like all of us) understands very very what 9.9 is... and no matter how strict the grade is, he is still right that the muuuuch higher print run gave the book a mich higher chance of getting 9.9. Probably 10 times, 100 times or even higher chance. That does not mean the chance is high. It might have gone 100 fold up from a very low decimal number. So it is still an extremely low chance, but it has increased many many times... and that was his point. You keep misunderstanding logic time and time again.

 

Alexander, let's lay off the hyperbole, ok? It doesn't advance your position.

 

No one "misunderstood" anything. The problem Jaydog has is that he is loose, like you, with the language. I can forgive you, as it seems like you are European, and English may not be your first language (I am perfectly happy to be corrected on this), but Jaydog has no such excuse.

 

When someone says a book has "a boatload of chances at a 9.9", it shows that they don't really understand what makes 9.9 and 10 such freaks. Is it true generally that a higher print run gives a book more chances of obtaining a 9.9?

 

Obviously.

 

However..,print run alone is not the only determining factor on whether a particular issue has an actual chance of obtaining a 9.9 or 10. There are books with literally MILLIONS of copies printed, that will never, ever get a 9.9 or 10, because of the nature of the books themselves, and the 9.9 and 10 grades. Those books, which had far, far, FAR more copies printed than Hulk #181, have ZERO chance, much less a "boatload", of ever obtaining a 9.9 or 10 (X-Force #1, for example), under the current system at CGC.

 

There are entire print runs worth of books that will never, and COULD never, obtain a 9.9 or 10, right off the presses. Those books had ZERO chance, ever, regardless of the size of their print runs.

 

Conversely, there are books with 1,000, 2,000, 5,000 copy print runs that have multiple 9.9s and/or 10s, simply because of the way they were manufactured. Far, far lower print run...but an actual "boatload" more chance at 9.9s and 10s.

 

Because print run alone isn't the determining factor.

 

Got any other examples of my many mistakes...?

 

 

 

It is obvious Hulk 181 is a far more important book.

 

It is also more valuable? This can be a bit questioned I think, but in light of Jay's analysis above the most logical answer (despite a couple of guys' attempts to use school yard tactics to pretend to be right) is that Hulk 181 is also the most valuable.

 

Which school yard tactics would those be?

 

 

The most logical answer is that Cerebus #1 is more valuable in grades 9.2 and above, because we have sales data to prove it.

 

Why do you dispute that?

 

It's cut and dried. It couldn't be clearer. Whatever sells for more is worth more.

 

Why do you gents keep disputing this?

 

And... if there was an even number of the two (let's say just as many cerebus as there are now H181) then a Cerebus would most probably be worth about the same as a Thor 158 or there about....across grades.

 

There have been more What Ifs in this thread than the entire output of Marvel since 1977.

 

What Ifs don't count.

 

What if Hulk #181 was made of gold?

 

What if Cerebus #1 was written by Thomas Jefferson?

 

What if the Titanic hadn't sunk in 1912, but carried on as a passenger ship until 1977, when it happened to be carrying the entire print run of Cerebus, and it smashed into a giant monster named Mothra over the Sea of Japan and sunk?

 

You have no idea what Cerebus #1 would be worth if it had the same number of copies extant as Hulk #181..claiming it would be worth the same as Thor #158 is complete and utter speculation, without foundation.

 

 

If you read what I said, you would know that I do not insist H181 is more valuable. But I think it is wrong to claim that Cerebus is more valuable than H181. It may be possible to make an argument that it is more worth at a few grades, while H181 is more valuable at other grades.

 

Uh... THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE BEEN SAYING.

It's jaydog who disagrees.

 

That still does not make it right to claim that Cerebus is more valuable as an overarching statement.

 

NO ONE HAS SAID THAT. NO ONE HAS SAID THAT. NO ONE HAS SAID THAT.

 

JIMMINY FREAKING CHRISTMAS. How many times does it have to be repeated?

 

NO ONE HAS SAID THAT.

 

jaydog is ARGUEING it, but NO ONE IS SAYING IT.

 

 

Is Cerebus worth more at 9.4? Perhaps. There is probably too little data to really know.

 

No. Here's your real world proof, that you even POINTED OUT that I've repeated 3 times prior: Any national dealer on this board, if given a chance, would buy a Cerebus #1 CGC 9.4 over a Hulk #181 CGC 9.4 - if offered either one or the other - for $500.

 

That's REAL WORLD PROOF.

 

Doesn't matter what Aliens or Snails or BMW or Toyotas THINK.... Any national dealer on this board, if given a chance, would buy a Cerebus #1 CGC 9.4 over a Hulk #181 CGC 9.4 - if offered either one or the other - for $500.

 

WHY?

 

Because. It. Is. MORE. Valuable.

 

Debate THEORY all you want.

 

THERE... is.... PROOF.

 

 

If someone found a trailer with 10.000 copies of each comic.... in grade 9.4. Would dealers then really prefer to buy the Cerebus ones?..... really?

 

That is NOT what is being debated. Who the hell knows? What if I could shoot Cerebus #1's out of my butt? Who cares?

 

That's NOT what is being debated or discussed.

 

 

I mean... if it in itself is more valuable.... surely they would... but I doubt they actually would.

 

Who knows. I could care less. I want to know... what I should buy and what I shouldn't buy based upon REAL WORLD FACTS.

Not THEORY or Emotion.... What actually sells... well... in this instance we KNOW.

 

Now we know of few copies.. this gives us a lack of data, and if the next 9.4 sells for half the price... that is basically the price (more or less) because there are not enough sales to really know what the FMV is. So there is a possibility it might be, or it might not be. From the insufficient data we have right this minute - it might be in 9.4.

 

ASK a national dealer. Anyone who has been selling for any amount of time has probably had one and sold it for MORE than guide. They'll TELL you... it's a book that commands a premium, and in high grade, DEMANDS a premium. It's not JUST OSPG, it's other REAL WORLD sales that are going on....

 

And yes, I'm European.. English is not my first language.

 

Hope you're enjoying the boards, it's not always this crazy,,,

[AlexanderM]

 

I didn't check GPA for Cerebus. I assumed it probably was more valuable because if it has just a little fan crowd it should be more valuable given the small print run. But if it cannot even outdo Hulk 181 on value given much lower print run... then there is really no discussion.

 

RMA - just this to you. You try to pick apart Jay's response, but you make so many mistakes it would fill the entire page to to the same to your posts. For example he says that 181 had a boatload more chances to get 9.9 or 10. Your answer is "I don't think you understand what 9.9 or 10 means". That is not only arrogant, it is also wrong.. He (like all of us) understands very very what 9.9 is... and no matter how strict the grade is, he is still right that the muuuuch higher print run gave the book a mich higher chance of getting 9.9. Probably 10 times, 100 times or even higher chance. That does not mean the chance is high. It might have gone 100 fold up from a very low decimal number. So it is still an extremely low chance, but it has increased many many times... and that was his point. You keep misunderstanding logic time and time again.

 

Alexander, let's lay off the hyperbole, ok? It doesn't advance your position.

 

No one "misunderstood" anything. The problem Jaydog has is that he is loose, like you, with the language. I can forgive you, as it seems like you are European, and English may not be your first language (I am perfectly happy to be corrected on this), but Jaydog has no such excuse.

 

When someone says a book has "a boatload of chances at a 9.9", it shows that they don't really understand what makes 9.9 and 10 such freaks. Is it true generally that a higher print run gives a book more chances of obtaining a 9.9?

 

Obviously.

 

However..,print run alone is not the only determining factor on whether a particular issue has an actual chance of obtaining a 9.9 or 10. There are books with literally MILLIONS of copies printed, that will never, ever get a 9.9 or 10, because of the nature of the books themselves, and the 9.9 and 10 grades. Those books, which had far, far, FAR more copies printed than Hulk #181, have ZERO chance, much less a "boatload", of ever obtaining a 9.9 or 10 (X-Force #1, for example), under the current system at CGC.

 

There are entire print runs worth of books that will never, and COULD never, obtain a 9.9 or 10, right off the presses. Those books had ZERO chance, ever, regardless of the size of their print runs.

 

Conversely, there are books with 1,000, 2,000, 5,000 copy print runs that have multiple 9.9s and/or 10s, simply because of the way they were manufactured. Far, far lower print run...but an actual "boatload" more chance at 9.9s and 10s.

 

Because print run alone isn't the determining factor.

 

Got any other examples of my many mistakes...?

 

 

 

It is obvious Hulk 181 is a far more important book.

 

It is also more valuable? This can be a bit questioned I think, but in light of Jay's analysis above the most logical answer (despite a couple of guys' attempts to use school yard tactics to pretend to be right) is that Hulk 181 is also the most valuable.

 

Which school yard tactics would those be?

 

 

The most logical answer is that Cerebus #1 is more valuable in grades 9.2 and above, because we have sales data to prove it.

 

Why do you dispute that?

 

It's cut and dried. It couldn't be clearer. Whatever sells for more is worth more.

 

Why do you gents keep disputing this?

 

And... if there was an even number of the two (let's say just as many cerebus as there are now H181) then a Cerebus would most probably be worth about the same as a Thor 158 or there about....across grades.

 

There have been more What Ifs in this thread than the entire output of Marvel since 1977.

 

What Ifs don't count.

 

What if Hulk #181 was made of gold?

 

What if Cerebus #1 was written by Thomas Jefferson?

 

What if the Titanic hadn't sunk in 1912, but carried on as a passenger ship until 1977, when it happened to be carrying the entire print run of Cerebus, and it smashed into a giant monster named Mothra over the Sea of Japan and sunk?

 

You have no idea what Cerebus #1 would be worth if it had the same number of copies extant as Hulk #181..claiming it would be worth the same as Thor #158 is complete and utter speculation, without foundation.

 

 

If you read what I said,

 

I did read what you said. Unlike some, I don't dishonor those I speak with by not even bothering to read what they write. That's rude.

 

I simply disagree with you.

 

you would know that I do not insist H181 is more valuable. But I think it is wrong to claim that Cerebus is more valuable than H181. It may be possible to make an argument that it is more worth at a few grades, while H181 is more valuable at other grades. That still does not make it right to claim that Cerebus is more valuable as an overarching statement.

 

The question is not, and has never been, which is more valuable in all grades.

 

The question has always been "which is more valuable according to Overstreet in the highest grade OPG reports?", which morphed into which one is more valuable in the highest grades.

 

 

Is Cerebus worth more at 9.4? Perhaps.

 

There is no "perhaps" about it.

 

It is documented as such.

 

There is probably too little data to really know.

 

No, there's not.

 

There was a sale, 5 months ago, of the book for $9,000. No Hulk #181 has sold in 9.4 U for even HALF that, and even the SS copies only come to a bit over $4,000.

 

If someone found a trailer with 10.000 copies of each comic.... in grade 9.4. Would dealers then really prefer to buy the Cerebus ones?..... really?

 

I mean... if it in itself is more valuable.... surely they would... but I doubt they actually would.

 

If the queen of England was your mother, would you be able to buy all the Hulk #181s you wanted?

 

If, if, if, if.

 

Now we know of few copies.. this gives us a lack of data, and if the next 9.4 sells for half the price... that is basically the price (more or less) because there are not enough sales to really know what the FMV is. So there is a possibility it might be, or it might not be. From the insufficient data we have right this minute - it might be in 9.4.[/quote[]

 

And yes, I'm European.. English is not my first language.

 

Huh. How did I figure that out...?

 

 

I must have used science.

 

The way you chop up logical arguments serve one purpose... to take things out of context to make it seem like you are right. This to me seems like primary school debate team... but it is not impressive. I am not sure how many in here can or bother to see through those debating tactics you use, but I would recommend you don't argue in that way because I'm sure I'm not the only one who can see through that.

 

You must have used science?

 

I can't be bothered right now...I'm getting tired... it is 3.07am here now.... I'm in the worst hotel I have been in for the past 5 years.. and I should be sleeping. Which I will do now.

[RockMyAmadeus]

So, if you had only one opportunity in your life time to add only one of these books to your collection in CGC 9.2 which would it be?

 

Hulk 181

 

or

 

Cerebus 1

 

Remember, only one chance in a lifetime to pick one of these 2 books (and both happen to be CGC 9.2s with white pages).

 

Me personally? The Cerebus 1. But that has nothing to do with this discussion.

 

I would take a 35 cent Scooby Doo #1 over either of them, and I demand to see it crack the OSPG Top Ten immediately.

 

So would I

 

So, you're ok with never having Hulk 181 in your collection? A variant is more significant to you?

"What you collect sucks! What I collect RULES!!!"

 

 

I don't have a problem with that. Hulk 181 along with GS X-Men 1 had such a tremendous impact on the history of the American Comic Book. The next 3 decades were dominated by the Mutants. And Wolverine stood as he does now, at the top of this age. Very easy to say what you don't have SUX,, but you can't say this particular book SUX. The fact that you prefer any book to Hulk 181 is your right but you can't say Wolverine's first appearance SUX just like you can't say the Spidey's first app. SUX too.

 

There are quotation marks for a reason. YOU are the one saying "what you collect sucks, what I collect rules!!, not I, which is the attitude you are displaying. I respect whatever someone is interested in collecting, and I give preference to those collectors who seek the truly scarce, difficult to obtain books.

 

I have owned multiple Hulk #181s. I have never even SEEN a Scooby Doo #1 35 cent variant in person.

 

See Oakman's sig line for further info.

 

A once in a lifetime opportunity to own an iconic book like Hulk 181 will for most collectors be a crowning achievement even if there are plenty around. Relatively speaking, there are plenty of AF 15s around too. In time, the many Hulk 181s will be sought after by future generations especially since Wolverine's staying power continues to rise. It's just a matter of time.

 

Hulk #181? Crowning achievement?

 

The Bronze Age equivalent to playing T-Ball?

 

No thanks.

 

I've got far bigger Detective Comics #27s to fry.

 

 

Don't put words in my mouth. That's not what I said. You really amuse me. And please don't apologize again. I can't stop laughing.

 

I didn't. That's what you said.

 

"So, you're ok with never having Hulk 181 in your collection? A variant is more significant to you?"

 

That translates into "what you collect sucks, what I collect rules."

 

You said it, I didn't.

 

The answer is quite obviously yes. Not everyone sees Hulk #181 as you do. And that's perfectly fine and wonderful. If everyone viewed Hulk #181 the way you do, it would be unobtainable for all except the richest, and everything else would be worthless.

 

You really are quite dismissive of those with whom you don't agree, aren't you?

 

I'm sorry if that confuses you.

 

Oops.

 

I'm sorry for apologizing.

 

Drat, did it again.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

And please don't start a 10 page diatribe about me taking it personally

And please enough of your bragging.

 

You have an odd definition of the word "bragging."

 

Also, your page counts are off.

 

Don't take it personally.

 

"lol"

[AlexanderM]

 

I didn't check GPA for Cerebus. I assumed it probably was more valuable because if it has just a little fan crowd it should be more valuable given the small print run. But if it cannot even outdo Hulk 181 on value given much lower print run... then there is really no discussion.

 

RMA - just this to you. You try to pick apart Jay's response, but you make so many mistakes it would fill the entire page to to the same to your posts. For example he says that 181 had a boatload more chances to get 9.9 or 10. Your answer is "I don't think you understand what 9.9 or 10 means". That is not only arrogant, it is also wrong.. He (like all of us) understands very very what 9.9 is... and no matter how strict the grade is, he is still right that the muuuuch higher print run gave the book a mich higher chance of getting 9.9. Probably 10 times, 100 times or even higher chance. That does not mean the chance is high. It might have gone 100 fold up from a very low decimal number. So it is still an extremely low chance, but it has increased many many times... and that was his point. You keep misunderstanding logic time and time again.

 

Alexander, let's lay off the hyperbole, ok? It doesn't advance your position.

 

No one "misunderstood" anything. The problem Jaydog has is that he is loose, like you, with the language. I can forgive you, as it seems like you are European, and English may not be your first language (I am perfectly happy to be corrected on this), but Jaydog has no such excuse.

 

When someone says a book has "a boatload of chances at a 9.9", it shows that they don't really understand what makes 9.9 and 10 such freaks. Is it true generally that a higher print run gives a book more chances of obtaining a 9.9?

 

Obviously.

 

However..,print run alone is not the only determining factor on whether a particular issue has an actual chance of obtaining a 9.9 or 10. There are books with literally MILLIONS of copies printed, that will never, ever get a 9.9 or 10, because of the nature of the books themselves, and the 9.9 and 10 grades. Those books, which had far, far, FAR more copies printed than Hulk #181, have ZERO chance, much less a "boatload", of ever obtaining a 9.9 or 10 (X-Force #1, for example), under the current system at CGC.

 

There are entire print runs worth of books that will never, and COULD never, obtain a 9.9 or 10, right off the presses. Those books had ZERO chance, ever, regardless of the size of their print runs.

 

Conversely, there are books with 1,000, 2,000, 5,000 copy print runs that have multiple 9.9s and/or 10s, simply because of the way they were manufactured. Far, far lower print run...but an actual "boatload" more chance at 9.9s and 10s.

 

Because print run alone isn't the determining factor.

 

Got any other examples of my many mistakes...?

 

 

 

It is obvious Hulk 181 is a far more important book.

 

It is also more valuable? This can be a bit questioned I think, but in light of Jay's analysis above the most logical answer (despite a couple of guys' attempts to use school yard tactics to pretend to be right) is that Hulk 181 is also the most valuable.

 

Which school yard tactics would those be?

 

 

The most logical answer is that Cerebus #1 is more valuable in grades 9.2 and above, because we have sales data to prove it.

 

Why do you dispute that?

 

It's cut and dried. It couldn't be clearer. Whatever sells for more is worth more.

 

Why do you gents keep disputing this?

 

And... if there was an even number of the two (let's say just as many cerebus as there are now H181) then a Cerebus would most probably be worth about the same as a Thor 158 or there about....across grades.

 

There have been more What Ifs in this thread than the entire output of Marvel since 1977.

 

What Ifs don't count.

 

What if Hulk #181 was made of gold?

 

What if Cerebus #1 was written by Thomas Jefferson?

 

What if the Titanic hadn't sunk in 1912, but carried on as a passenger ship until 1977, when it happened to be carrying the entire print run of Cerebus, and it smashed into a giant monster named Mothra over the Sea of Japan and sunk?

 

You have no idea what Cerebus #1 would be worth if it had the same number of copies extant as Hulk #181..claiming it would be worth the same as Thor #158 is complete and utter speculation, without foundation.

 

 

If you read what I said, you would know that I do not insist H181 is more valuable. But I think it is wrong to claim that Cerebus is more valuable than H181. It may be possible to make an argument that it is more worth at a few grades, while H181 is more valuable at other grades.

 

Uh... THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE BEEN SAYING.

It's jaydog who disagrees.

 

That still does not make it right to claim that Cerebus is more valuable as an overarching statement.

 

NO ONE HAS SAID THAT. NO ONE HAS SAID THAT. NO ONE HAS SAID THAT.

 

JIMMINY FREAKING CHRISTMAS. How many times does it have to be repeated?

 

NO ONE HAS SAID THAT.

 

jaydog is ARGUEING it, but NO ONE IS SAYING IT.

 

 

Is Cerebus worth more at 9.4? Perhaps. There is probably too little data to really know.

 

No. Here's your real world proof, that you even POINTED OUT that I've repeated 3 times prior: Any national dealer on this board, if given a chance, would buy a Cerebus #1 CGC 9.4 over a Hulk #181 CGC 9.4 - if offered either one or the other - for $500.

 

That's REAL WORLD PROOF.

 

Doesn't matter what Aliens or Snails or BMW or Toyotas THINK.... Any national dealer on this board, if given a chance, would buy a Cerebus #1 CGC 9.4 over a Hulk #181 CGC 9.4 - if offered either one or the other - for $500.

 

WHY?

 

Because. It. Is. MORE. Valuable.

 

Debate THEORY all you want.

 

THERE... is.... PROOF.

 

 

If someone found a trailer with 10.000 copies of each comic.... in grade 9.4. Would dealers then really prefer to buy the Cerebus ones?..... really?

 

That is NOT what is being debated. Who the hell knows? What if I could shoot Cerebus #1's out of my butt? Who cares?

 

That's NOT what is being debated or discussed.

 

 

I mean... if it in itself is more valuable.... surely they would... but I doubt they actually would.

 

Who knows. I could care less. I want to know... what I should buy and what I shouldn't buy based upon REAL WORLD FACTS.

Not THEORY or Emotion.... What actually sells... well... in this instance we KNOW.

 

Now we know of few copies.. this gives us a lack of data, and if the next 9.4 sells for half the price... that is basically the price (more or less) because there are not enough sales to really know what the FMV is. So there is a possibility it might be, or it might not be. From the insufficient data we have right this minute - it might be in 9.4.

 

ASK a national dealer. Anyone who has been selling for any amount of time has probably had one and sold it for MORE than guide. They'll TELL you... it's a book that commands a premium, and in high grade, DEMANDS a premium. It's not JUST OSPG, it's other REAL WORLD sales that are going on....

 

And yes, I'm European.. English is not my first language.

 

Hope you're enjoying the boards, it's not always this crazy,,,

 

I am, thanks

 

We more or less agree... except that you don't want to answer what you would do if someone came to you with 10.000 copies of Cerebus 1 and H181.

 

You could answer that. Just like you could answer if I asked you what you would do if someone came with an action comics 1 9.8 and offered it for $10.000. It hasn't happened, but you know very well what you would do.

 

You obviously don't want to answer... because the logical answer is not the one you would want

Edited August 22, 2014 by AlexanderM

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

The way you chop up logical arguments serve one purpose... to take things out of context to make it seem like you are right.

 

This is an accusation that is frequently made, and it doesn't ever hold much water.

 

I don't remove anything from the posts, I simply respond to each point as it comes along. There is nothing "taken out of context", nor is anything misrepresented.

 

If you believe there is, by all means, point it out.

 

It seems like I am right, because I use methodical and structured reasoning, relying on empirical evidence, rather than my own personal feelings and biases, to reach the conclusions I do.

 

Instead of complaining about my method, why not refute me using methodical, structured reasoning, relying on empirical evidence?

 

I am perfectly willing to learn, from whatever source the learning comes from.

 

Are you....?

 

 

 

This to me seems like primary school debate team... but it is not impressive. I am not sure how many in here can or bother to see through those debating tactics you use, but I would recommend you don't argue in that way because I'm sure I'm not the only one who can see through that.

 

Again...instead of complaining about how I debate, why not confine yourself to methodical, structured reasoning, relying on empirical evidence, to make your points?

 

Is it because you discover that your point doesn't hold up to scrutiny, but you're too proud to admit it, like many around here...?

 

That's simple pride. I am happy to discard concepts, idea, and information that are found to be wrong.

 

Are you...?

 

You must have used science?

 

I can't be bothered right now...I'm getting tired... it is 3.07am here now.... I'm in the worst hotel I have been in for the past 5 years.. and I should be sleeping. Which I will do now.

 

Have a good night, and see you next time.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

I didn't check GPA for Cerebus. I assumed it probably was more valuable because if it has just a little fan crowd it should be more valuable given the small print run. But if it cannot even outdo Hulk 181 on value given much lower print run... then there is really no discussion.

 

RMA - just this to you. You try to pick apart Jay's response, but you make so many mistakes it would fill the entire page to to the same to your posts. For example he says that 181 had a boatload more chances to get 9.9 or 10. Your answer is "I don't think you understand what 9.9 or 10 means". That is not only arrogant, it is also wrong.. He (like all of us) understands very very what 9.9 is... and no matter how strict the grade is, he is still right that the muuuuch higher print run gave the book a mich higher chance of getting 9.9. Probably 10 times, 100 times or even higher chance. That does not mean the chance is high. It might have gone 100 fold up from a very low decimal number. So it is still an extremely low chance, but it has increased many many times... and that was his point. You keep misunderstanding logic time and time again.

 

Alexander, let's lay off the hyperbole, ok? It doesn't advance your position.

 

No one "misunderstood" anything. The problem Jaydog has is that he is loose, like you, with the language. I can forgive you, as it seems like you are European, and English may not be your first language (I am perfectly happy to be corrected on this), but Jaydog has no such excuse.

 

When someone says a book has "a boatload of chances at a 9.9", it shows that they don't really understand what makes 9.9 and 10 such freaks. Is it true generally that a higher print run gives a book more chances of obtaining a 9.9?

 

Obviously.

 

However..,print run alone is not the only determining factor on whether a particular issue has an actual chance of obtaining a 9.9 or 10. There are books with literally MILLIONS of copies printed, that will never, ever get a 9.9 or 10, because of the nature of the books themselves, and the 9.9 and 10 grades. Those books, which had far, far, FAR more copies printed than Hulk #181, have ZERO chance, much less a "boatload", of ever obtaining a 9.9 or 10 (X-Force #1, for example), under the current system at CGC.

 

There are entire print runs worth of books that will never, and COULD never, obtain a 9.9 or 10, right off the presses. Those books had ZERO chance, ever, regardless of the size of their print runs.

 

Conversely, there are books with 1,000, 2,000, 5,000 copy print runs that have multiple 9.9s and/or 10s, simply because of the way they were manufactured. Far, far lower print run...but an actual "boatload" more chance at 9.9s and 10s.

 

Because print run alone isn't the determining factor.

 

Got any other examples of my many mistakes...?

 

 

 

It is obvious Hulk 181 is a far more important book.

 

It is also more valuable? This can be a bit questioned I think, but in light of Jay's analysis above the most logical answer (despite a couple of guys' attempts to use school yard tactics to pretend to be right) is that Hulk 181 is also the most valuable.

 

Which school yard tactics would those be?

 

 

The most logical answer is that Cerebus #1 is more valuable in grades 9.2 and above, because we have sales data to prove it.

 

Why do you dispute that?

 

It's cut and dried. It couldn't be clearer. Whatever sells for more is worth more.

 

Why do you gents keep disputing this?

 

And... if there was an even number of the two (let's say just as many cerebus as there are now H181) then a Cerebus would most probably be worth about the same as a Thor 158 or there about....across grades.

 

There have been more What Ifs in this thread than the entire output of Marvel since 1977.

 

What Ifs don't count.

 

What if Hulk #181 was made of gold?

 

What if Cerebus #1 was written by Thomas Jefferson?

 

What if the Titanic hadn't sunk in 1912, but carried on as a passenger ship until 1977, when it happened to be carrying the entire print run of Cerebus, and it smashed into a giant monster named Mothra over the Sea of Japan and sunk?

 

You have no idea what Cerebus #1 would be worth if it had the same number of copies extant as Hulk #181..claiming it would be worth the same as Thor #158 is complete and utter speculation, without foundation.

 

 

If you read what I said, you would know that I do not insist H181 is more valuable. But I think it is wrong to claim that Cerebus is more valuable than H181. It may be possible to make an argument that it is more worth at a few grades, while H181 is more valuable at other grades.

 

Uh... THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE BEEN SAYING.

It's jaydog who disagrees.

 

That still does not make it right to claim that Cerebus is more valuable as an overarching statement.

 

NO ONE HAS SAID THAT. NO ONE HAS SAID THAT. NO ONE HAS SAID THAT.

 

JIMMINY FREAKING CHRISTMAS. How many times does it have to be repeated?

 

NO ONE HAS SAID THAT.

 

jaydog is ARGUEING it, but NO ONE IS SAYING IT.

 

 

Is Cerebus worth more at 9.4? Perhaps. There is probably too little data to really know.

 

No. Here's your real world proof, that you even POINTED OUT that I've repeated 3 times prior: Any national dealer on this board, if given a chance, would buy a Cerebus #1 CGC 9.4 over a Hulk #181 CGC 9.4 - if offered either one or the other - for $500.

 

That's REAL WORLD PROOF.

 

Doesn't matter what Aliens or Snails or BMW or Toyotas THINK.... Any national dealer on this board, if given a chance, would buy a Cerebus #1 CGC 9.4 over a Hulk #181 CGC 9.4 - if offered either one or the other - for $500.

 

WHY?

 

Because. It. Is. MORE. Valuable.

 

Debate THEORY all you want.

 

THERE... is.... PROOF.

 

 

If someone found a trailer with 10.000 copies of each comic.... in grade 9.4. Would dealers then really prefer to buy the Cerebus ones?..... really?

 

That is NOT what is being debated. Who the hell knows? What if I could shoot Cerebus #1's out of my butt? Who cares?

 

That's NOT what is being debated or discussed.

 

 

I mean... if it in itself is more valuable.... surely they would... but I doubt they actually would.

 

Who knows. I could care less. I want to know... what I should buy and what I shouldn't buy based upon REAL WORLD FACTS.

Not THEORY or Emotion.... What actually sells... well... in this instance we KNOW.

 

Now we know of few copies.. this gives us a lack of data, and if the next 9.4 sells for half the price... that is basically the price (more or less) because there are not enough sales to really know what the FMV is. So there is a possibility it might be, or it might not be. From the insufficient data we have right this minute - it might be in 9.4.

 

ASK a national dealer. Anyone who has been selling for any amount of time has probably had one and sold it for MORE than guide. They'll TELL you... it's a book that commands a premium, and in high grade, DEMANDS a premium. It's not JUST OSPG, it's other REAL WORLD sales that are going on....

 

And yes, I'm European.. English is not my first language.

 

Hope you're enjoying the boards, it's not always this crazy,,,

 

Chuck is SUPAH sexy when he gets riled up...

 

[Prince Namor]

 

I didn't check GPA for Cerebus. I assumed it probably was more valuable because if it has just a little fan crowd it should be more valuable given the small print run. But if it cannot even outdo Hulk 181 on value given much lower print run... then there is really no discussion.

 

RMA - just this to you. You try to pick apart Jay's response, but you make so many mistakes it would fill the entire page to to the same to your posts. For example he says that 181 had a boatload more chances to get 9.9 or 10. Your answer is "I don't think you understand what 9.9 or 10 means". That is not only arrogant, it is also wrong.. He (like all of us) understands very very what 9.9 is... and no matter how strict the grade is, he is still right that the muuuuch higher print run gave the book a mich higher chance of getting 9.9. Probably 10 times, 100 times or even higher chance. That does not mean the chance is high. It might have gone 100 fold up from a very low decimal number. So it is still an extremely low chance, but it has increased many many times... and that was his point. You keep misunderstanding logic time and time again.

 

Alexander, let's lay off the hyperbole, ok? It doesn't advance your position.

 

No one "misunderstood" anything. The problem Jaydog has is that he is loose, like you, with the language. I can forgive you, as it seems like you are European, and English may not be your first language (I am perfectly happy to be corrected on this), but Jaydog has no such excuse.

 

When someone says a book has "a boatload of chances at a 9.9", it shows that they don't really understand what makes 9.9 and 10 such freaks. Is it true generally that a higher print run gives a book more chances of obtaining a 9.9?

 

Obviously.

 

However..,print run alone is not the only determining factor on whether a particular issue has an actual chance of obtaining a 9.9 or 10. There are books with literally MILLIONS of copies printed, that will never, ever get a 9.9 or 10, because of the nature of the books themselves, and the 9.9 and 10 grades. Those books, which had far, far, FAR more copies printed than Hulk #181, have ZERO chance, much less a "boatload", of ever obtaining a 9.9 or 10 (X-Force #1, for example), under the current system at CGC.

 

There are entire print runs worth of books that will never, and COULD never, obtain a 9.9 or 10, right off the presses. Those books had ZERO chance, ever, regardless of the size of their print runs.

 

Conversely, there are books with 1,000, 2,000, 5,000 copy print runs that have multiple 9.9s and/or 10s, simply because of the way they were manufactured. Far, far lower print run...but an actual "boatload" more chance at 9.9s and 10s.

 

Because print run alone isn't the determining factor.

 

Got any other examples of my many mistakes...?

 

 

 

It is obvious Hulk 181 is a far more important book.

 

It is also more valuable? This can be a bit questioned I think, but in light of Jay's analysis above the most logical answer (despite a couple of guys' attempts to use school yard tactics to pretend to be right) is that Hulk 181 is also the most valuable.

 

Which school yard tactics would those be?

 

 

The most logical answer is that Cerebus #1 is more valuable in grades 9.2 and above, because we have sales data to prove it.

 

Why do you dispute that?

 

It's cut and dried. It couldn't be clearer. Whatever sells for more is worth more.

 

Why do you gents keep disputing this?

 

And... if there was an even number of the two (let's say just as many cerebus as there are now H181) then a Cerebus would most probably be worth about the same as a Thor 158 or there about....across grades.

 

There have been more What Ifs in this thread than the entire output of Marvel since 1977.

 

What Ifs don't count.

 

What if Hulk #181 was made of gold?

 

What if Cerebus #1 was written by Thomas Jefferson?

 

What if the Titanic hadn't sunk in 1912, but carried on as a passenger ship until 1977, when it happened to be carrying the entire print run of Cerebus, and it smashed into a giant monster named Mothra over the Sea of Japan and sunk?

 

You have no idea what Cerebus #1 would be worth if it had the same number of copies extant as Hulk #181..claiming it would be worth the same as Thor #158 is complete and utter speculation, without foundation.

 

 

If you read what I said, you would know that I do not insist H181 is more valuable. But I think it is wrong to claim that Cerebus is more valuable than H181. It may be possible to make an argument that it is more worth at a few grades, while H181 is more valuable at other grades.

 

Uh... THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE BEEN SAYING.

It's jaydog who disagrees.

 

That still does not make it right to claim that Cerebus is more valuable as an overarching statement.

 

NO ONE HAS SAID THAT. NO ONE HAS SAID THAT. NO ONE HAS SAID THAT.

 

JIMMINY FREAKING CHRISTMAS. How many times does it have to be repeated?

 

NO ONE HAS SAID THAT.

 

jaydog is ARGUEING it, but NO ONE IS SAYING IT.

 

 

Is Cerebus worth more at 9.4? Perhaps. There is probably too little data to really know.

 

No. Here's your real world proof, that you even POINTED OUT that I've repeated 3 times prior: Any national dealer on this board, if given a chance, would buy a Cerebus #1 CGC 9.4 over a Hulk #181 CGC 9.4 - if offered either one or the other - for $500.

 

That's REAL WORLD PROOF.

 

Doesn't matter what Aliens or Snails or BMW or Toyotas THINK.... Any national dealer on this board, if given a chance, would buy a Cerebus #1 CGC 9.4 over a Hulk #181 CGC 9.4 - if offered either one or the other - for $500.

 

WHY?

 

Because. It. Is. MORE. Valuable.

 

Debate THEORY all you want.

 

THERE... is.... PROOF.

 

 

If someone found a trailer with 10.000 copies of each comic.... in grade 9.4. Would dealers then really prefer to buy the Cerebus ones?..... really?

 

That is NOT what is being debated. Who the hell knows? What if I could shoot Cerebus #1's out of my butt? Who cares?

 

That's NOT what is being debated or discussed.

 

 

I mean... if it in itself is more valuable.... surely they would... but I doubt they actually would.

 

Who knows. I could care less. I want to know... what I should buy and what I shouldn't buy based upon REAL WORLD FACTS.

Not THEORY or Emotion.... What actually sells... well... in this instance we KNOW.

 

Now we know of few copies.. this gives us a lack of data, and if the next 9.4 sells for half the price... that is basically the price (more or less) because there are not enough sales to really know what the FMV is. So there is a possibility it might be, or it might not be. From the insufficient data we have right this minute - it might be in 9.4.

 

ASK a national dealer. Anyone who has been selling for any amount of time has probably had one and sold it for MORE than guide. They'll TELL you... it's a book that commands a premium, and in high grade, DEMANDS a premium. It's not JUST OSPG, it's other REAL WORLD sales that are going on....

 

And yes, I'm European.. English is not my first language.

 

Hope you're enjoying the boards, it's not always this crazy,,,

 

I am, thanks

 

We more or less agree... except that you don't want to answer what you would do if someone came to you with 10.000 copies of Cerebus 1 and H181.

 

You could answer that. Just like you could answer if I asked you what you would do if someone came with an action comics 1 9.8 and offered it for $10.000. It hasn't happened, but you know very well what you would do.

 

You obviously don't want to answer... because the logical answer is not the one you would want

 

The reason I don't answer is because no one knows for sure. It's not a real world practical application of information.

 

PROBABLY, it would mean, IH181 would sell for more in 9.4

 

But why do I care? It's NOT what I was debating, Never HAS been what I was debating and is something I would never waste my TIME debating.

 

Who freaking cares what if?

 

I'm not interested in that discussion and haven't been.

 

It has nothing to do with anything I care about.

 

No one will EVER come to my table at a show and offer me 10,000 IH181 or Cerebus #1's. So WHY would I bother wondering what difference it would make in the world?

 

BIZARRE. FREAKING BIZARRE.

 

IT'S NOT WHAT WE ARE DISCUSSING.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

 

 

I am, thanks

 

We more or less agree... except that you don't want to answer what you would do if someone came to you with 10.000 copies of Cerebus 1 and H181.

 

You could answer that. Just like you could answer if I asked you what you would do if someone came with an action comics 1 9.8 and offered it for $10.000. It hasn't happened, but you know very well what you would do.

 

You obviously don't want to answer... because the logical answer is not the one you would want

 

What is logical about What Ifs?

 

 

If I my skeleton was made of platinum, would you kill me to get it?

 

The "logical" answer is, of course, "Hell yes!"

 

I mean, come on! It's a skeleton made of PLATINUM! That's gotta be worth millions!

 

10.000 copies...despite not even existing in the first place for Cerebus...in one hand would change the dynamics of the market for those books.

 

You think the obvious answer is "Hulk #181."

 

But you think only in terms of the market as it stands right now. Flooding it with 10,000 copies would cause serious convulsions.

 

And very few people have the space to hold 10,000 slabs of anything. Slabs take up a TREMENDOUS amount of space.

[Lazyboy]

 

 

 

I am, thanks

 

We more or less agree... except that you don't want to answer what you would do if someone came to you with 10.000 copies of Cerebus 1 and H181.

 

You could answer that. Just like you could answer if I asked you what you would do if someone came with an action comics 1 9.8 and offered it for $10.000. It hasn't happened, but you know very well what you would do.

 

You obviously don't want to answer... because the logical answer is not the one you would want

 

What is logical about What Ifs?

 

 

If I my skeleton was made of platinum, would you kill me to get it?

 

The "logical" answer is, of course, "Hell yes!"

 

I mean, come on! It's a skeleton made of PLATINUM! That's gotta be worth millions!

 

10.000 copies...despite not even existing in the first place for Cerebus...in one hand would change the dynamics of the market for those books.

 

You think the obvious answer is "Hulk #181."

 

But you think only in terms of the market as it stands right now. Flooding it with 10,000 copies would cause serious convulsions.

 

And very few people have the space to hold 10,000 slabs of anything. Slabs take up a TREMENDOUS amount of space.

 

The obvious answer in this completely unrealistic hypothetical situation is to take the Hulks. But I certainly wouldn't give that much (relatively) for them.

[porcupine48]

If someone came up to me with 10 000 Cerebus #1s I would ask to meet their counterfeiting source,then get them to make me a few thousand 181s.And GotG related books...man they are sexy hot right now.

[bronze johnny]

So, if you had only one opportunity in your life time to add only one of these books to your collection in CGC 9.2 which would it be?

 

Hulk 181

 

or

 

Cerebus 1

 

Remember, only one chance in a lifetime to pick one of these 2 books (and both happen to be CGC 9.2s with white pages).

 

Me personally? The Cerebus 1. But that has nothing to do with this discussion.

 

I would take a 35 cent Scooby Doo #1 over either of them, and I demand to see it crack the OSPG Top Ten immediately.

 

So would I

 

So, you're ok with never having Hulk 181 in your collection? A variant is more significant to you?

"What you collect sucks! What I collect RULES!!!"

 

 

I don't have a problem with that. Hulk 181 along with GS X-Men 1 had such a tremendous impact on the history of the American Comic Book. The next 3 decades were dominated by the Mutants. And Wolverine stood as he does now, at the top of this age. Very easy to say what you don't have SUX,, but you can't say this particular book SUX. The fact that you prefer any book to Hulk 181 is your right but you can't say Wolverine's first appearance SUX just like you can't say the Spidey's first app. SUX too.

 

There are quotation marks for a reason. YOU are the one saying "what you collect sucks, what I collect rules!!, not I, which is the attitude you are displaying. I respect whatever someone is interested in collecting, and I give preference to those collectors who seek the truly scarce, difficult to obtain books.

 

I have owned multiple Hulk #181s. I have never even SEEN a Scooby Doo #1 35 cent variant in person.

 

See Oakman's sig line for further info.

 

A once in a lifetime opportunity to own an iconic book like Hulk 181 will for most collectors be a crowning achievement even if there are plenty around. Relatively speaking, there are plenty of AF 15s around too. In time, the many Hulk 181s will be sought after by future generations especially since Wolverine's staying power continues to rise. It's just a matter of time.

 

Hulk #181? Crowning achievement?

 

The Bronze Age equivalent to playing T-Ball?

 

No thanks.

 

I've got far bigger Detective Comics #27s to fry.

 

 

Don't put words in my mouth. That's not what I said. You really amuse me. And please don't apologize again. I can't stop laughing.

 

I didn't. That's what you said.

 

"So, you're ok with never having Hulk 181 in your collection? A variant is more significant to you?"

 

That translates into "what you collect sucks, what I collect rules."

 

You said it, I didn't.

 

The answer is quite obviously yes. Not everyone sees Hulk #181 as you do. And that's perfectly fine and wonderful. If everyone viewed Hulk #181 the way you do, it would be unobtainable for all except the richest, and everything else would be worthless.

 

You really are quite dismissive of those with whom you don't agree, aren't you?

 

I'm sorry if that confuses you.

 

Oops.

 

I'm sorry for apologizing.

 

Drat, did it again.

 

 

Yes, but you're using your incredible gift for logic (Quine, eat your heart out!) to create your own translation into what I'm saying - it's not dismissive. It's a question. That's why you're so amusing.

 

And there you go again apologizing