Marvel has lost its way

[Mercury Man]

I believe Alex Alonso thinks he is some type of revolutionary/visionary. Perhaps he feels like he is making a difference with all of this shake up. Not sure who feeds him his ego stroke, maybe it is self induced, maybe his 'yes' men tell him.

 

But at the end of the day, his sales are getting lower and lower. DC is eating them up since REBIRTH. As an example: 3 years ago Incredible Hulk was ranked around #30 each month in sales. Now with Cho as Hulk, it is at about #90 each month.

 

It goes to show, you can off your fan base only so much.

[Hulksdaddy1]

Vision is good.

 

It is, but only sells 20K a month.

 

Need their heavy hitters to do well. Which means said heavy hitters must be in their books.

 

ASM has been been pretty good this latest reboot. Seems to be selling quite well too.

 

Miles Morales on the other hand , looks to be tanking yet another solo title.

 

-J.

 

ASM is my best selling Marvel regular monthly. I enjoy it, as do my customers.

 

As for Miles, not terrible for me. About 2/3 ASM sales. Total sales, he's only 25% of ASM.

[Doktor]

I believe Alex Alonso thinks he is some type of revolutionary/visionary. Perhaps he feels like he is making a difference with all of this shake up. Not sure who feeds him his ego stroke, maybe it is self induced, maybe his 'yes' men tell him.

 

But at the end of the day, his sales are getting lower and lower. DC is eating them up since REBIRTH. As an example: 3 years ago Incredible Hulk was ranked around #30 each month in sales. Now with Cho as Hulk, it is at about #90 each month.

 

It goes to show, you can off your fan base only so much.

 

I think it's actually got more to do with Brevvort having actual say in editorial & direction decisions under Alonso, instead of just being the continuity cop for Marvel like he was for a very long time. That's what he was best at. But if you read the stuff he would post on Tumblr ever since shortly before AvX, you could see a lot of this stuff coming down the pike. Such as "we need to solve the problem of titles with high issue #'s being scary for potential new readers to jump into, even when we make it clear that it's a great jumping on point issue" and within 2 years of that post, they were rebooting every title every 6-18 months.

 

And of course, as most people can see based on sales data, the "potential new readers" didn't get the memo that they were supposed to jump on, long-term readers didn't stick around through every relaunch & the law of diminishing returns kicked in faster than you could say boo.

[Broke as a Joke]

I think they (Marvel) believe they can always bring back, revive, resurrect the big guns whenever they want so in the meantime we get these horrible Marvel Try-Out storylines. Maybe something will stick and the editors can feel like they are geniuses.

 

 

[dupont2005]

Foolkiller

Prowler

Great Lakes Avengers

Occupy Avengers

Cage with artwork that's just

 

Plus an agenda that seems to be to do away with their iconic characters.

 

All great ways to make sure your market share declines.

 

Elaborate on the agenda part.

 

Banner gone, Stark no longer IM, GR looks like an anime freak, Cap a Hydra agent, then dead.

 

Not up on your Marvel reading?

Do you think any of those things are permanent?

[dupont2005]

Not to mention their movies which are doing gangbusters, are not in sync with their comics.

 

A young kid sees a Thor movie, but Thor Odinson isn't there, it's Jane Foster.

 

See's Iron Man and it's about to become a female named RiRi.

 

See's Hulk in a movie, picks up a comic, it's not Banner.

 

2 Captain America's now?

 

And careful which Spidey mag you buy, one is still Peter Parker, but the other one is some kid named Miles.

 

The powers that be, have bastardized this Universe. It sucks quite frankly. I read 4 Marvel titles, and it could easily be 2 here shortly. If they start screwing with Daredevil (transgender, Haitian, with a speech impediment), I am out completely.

 

 

 

The moviegoers weren't going to read the comics anyway. 60 million people go see Avengers, and there is no measurable increase in their comic sales. But that's probably the main problem. I don't think it's caused by any storyline in the comic though. I think it's caused by comic prices, comic format, continuity and the shared universe, and the direct market. Anyway, if they make a blockbuster movie based on a novel it will sell millions of copies. If they make a blockbuster TV show based on a creator owned stand alone comic book it will catapult to the top of the charts. Why not America's most beloved intellectual property too? I believe because crossovers, retcons, reboots, the shared universe, renumberings, ect. make it too difficult for an interested party to even start. Or a former fan to bother keeping up. I will not read any comics from any publisher that has a shared universe. First crossover, I'm done. Forever. No matter what.

[Hulksdaddy1]

Foolkiller

Prowler

Great Lakes Avengers

Occupy Avengers

Cage with artwork that's just

 

Plus an agenda that seems to be to do away with their iconic characters.

 

All great ways to make sure your market share declines.

 

Elaborate on the agenda part.

 

Banner gone, Stark no longer IM, GR looks like an anime freak, Cap a Hydra agent, then dead.

 

Not up on your Marvel reading?

Do you think any of those things are permanent?

 

Doesn't really matter. If it drives people away, odds get better they won't come back.

[dupont2005]

Foolkiller

Prowler

Great Lakes Avengers

Occupy Avengers

Cage with artwork that's just

 

Plus an agenda that seems to be to do away with their iconic characters.

 

All great ways to make sure your market share declines.

 

Elaborate on the agenda part.

 

Banner gone, Stark no longer IM, GR looks like an anime freak, Cap a Hydra agent, then dead.

 

Not up on your Marvel reading?

Do you think any of those things are permanent?

 

Doesn't really matter. If it drives people away, odds get better they won't come back.

Sure. But they obviously plan on replacing those lost readers with new ones. Or else eventually all the readers will die off. Also, what one reader hates another will love. I quit reading superhero comics in the early 90's because of crossover events that ultimately change nothing. That's such a money maker both companies schedule several such events a year now. They obviously don't miss me.

[shadroch]

Old news.

 

I gave up on moderns fifteen years ago, and all new books when Cererbus ended.

 

If something gets some good ink I pick up the trade and read a big fat ol' comic book, done in one.

 

Marvel didn't learn its lesson in the 70's when it diluted its core titles going for market share, didn't learn it in the 90's when it went for a chunk of distribution and wound up nearly bankrupt, and now it's going to take another beating for tearing out all the stuff that made it an occasional winner to begin with.

 

I'll be picking up everything published in the new millennium cheap one day soon when the next batch of comic shops go under, and I buy up the old store stock.

 

I find it ironic you could get through the wasteland that Cerebus turned into but gave up on Marvel.

My last purchases were the Sentry , Spidey, Cage Avengers and the first few Young Avengers.

Bring back Jim Shooter. Or Tom DeFalco.

[Hulksdaddy1]

Foolkiller

Prowler

Great Lakes Avengers

Occupy Avengers

Cage with artwork that's just

 

Plus an agenda that seems to be to do away with their iconic characters.

 

All great ways to make sure your market share declines.

 

Elaborate on the agenda part.

 

Banner gone, Stark no longer IM, GR looks like an anime freak, Cap a Hydra agent, then dead.

 

Not up on your Marvel reading?

Do you think any of those things are permanent?

 

Doesn't really matter. If it drives people away, odds get better they won't come back.

Sure. But they obviously plan on replacing those lost readers with new ones. Or else eventually all the readers will die off. Also, what one reader hates another will love. I quit reading superhero comics in the early 90's because of crossover events that ultimately change nothing. That's such a money maker both companies schedule several such events a year now. They obviously don't miss me.

 

What companies plan, and what happens, often don't jive. Like here. Marvels market share has plummeted. There are no new readers coming in.

[dupont2005]

 

What companies plan, and what happens, often don't jive. Like here. Marvels market share has plummeted. There are no new readers coming in.

Marvel hasn't lost sales, it's just that DC gained sales. Not readers, sales. People who had five book on their pull list now have 25. It will get back to where it was just like it did when the New 52 launched and became the New 51 and the new 48 as titles got cancelled. And when you look beyond the direct market, they're both losing marketshare in staggering numbers. Bookscan, NYT, Amazon, and B&N bestseller lists have far different demographics than Diamond and the local comic shop.

 

Where do you think young readers are going to buy their comics, the weird nerd hole 30 miles from home with the angry shop owner and the overpriced merchandise, or the bookstore in the mall, Amazon, their Kindle marketplace?

 

One of the biggest markets for comics, believe it or not, is school book fairs, which is why Scholastic is KILLING the big two on the NYT bestseller list. On any given week, half that list will be books by Raina Telgemeier, and it's been that way for about five years. Marvel might pop up once or twice a year on the list, DC might have one or two titles a month on it. She dominates the top five 52 weeks out of the year. And yet she's never been on the Diamond top 300.

 

Marvel isn't doing anything DC isn't doing, which is a problem in itself, but it pretty much means Marvel's loss of marketshare is due to DC's Rebirth having taken place just recently and not because Cap said Hail Hydra. Belive me, when Marvel puts a shiny new #1 on 80 titles for two months in a row, their marketshare in the direct market will be back to where it always was. And believe me, they already got the next reboot scheduled.

 

It won't bring in any new readers, but it will make the ever shrinking pool of current readers add more titles to their pull list, which is what the real cause of these sales bumps is.

 

If they wanted to actually bring in new readers, Iron Man should be all ages friendly, be a 100 page prestige bound magazine for $6.99, and be available in toy stores, book stores, book fairs, Wal Mart checkout lanes, and in vending machines at the movie theater where 60 million people lined up to watch the movie.

[sterlingcomics]

^ I agree. Doing what you've always done will net you what you always have. I really wish they'd go back to the silver age in terms of great stories, lots of good reading with an all age appropriate rating. Totaly spot on with Scholastic. Kids should have comics with them reading them in between classes etc. People find it way too convenient to use their digital device and get the entertainment that way. The physical medium is just dying, and kiddies have other forms of entertainment. I don't like it, but I don't think Marvel/DC can control it---they can just try and "be there" for when they do.

[Beastfeast]

:ohnoez:The Agenda

[Hulksdaddy1]

 

What companies plan, and what happens, often don't jive. Like here. Marvels market share has plummeted. There are no new readers coming in.

Marvel hasn't lost sales, it's just that DC gained sales. Not readers, sales. People who had five book on their pull list now have 25. It will get back to where it was just like it did when the New 52 launched and became the New 51 and the new 48 as titles got cancelled. And when you look beyond the direct market, they're both losing marketshare in staggering numbers. Bookscan, NYT, Amazon, and B&N bestseller lists have far different demographics than Diamond and the local comic shop.

 

The bolded is simply not true. Marvel has definitely lost sales, irrelevant to what DC has done. Though anecdotal, I've seen that in my shop, which I've owned for 21 years, and know my customers well. I know what they say, what they drop, and what they add. I have lifelong Marvel guys that are dropping titles because they don't like them. That has nothing to do with DC.

 

Where do you think young readers are going to buy their comics, the weird nerd hole 30 miles from home with the angry shop owner and the overpriced merchandise, or the bookstore in the mall, Amazon, their Kindle marketplace?

 

No offense, but this is just plain stupid. Not sure about your area, but that doesn't describe stores around here. Sure, those places are out there, but the shops that have survived to this point didn't do so by being anything like what you described.

 

One of the biggest markets for comics, believe it or not, is school book fairs, which is why Scholastic is KILLING the big two on the NYT bestseller list. On any given week, half that list will be books by Raina Telgemeier, and it's been that way for about five years. Marvel might pop up once or twice a year on the list, DC might have one or two titles a month on it. She dominates the top five 52 weeks out of the year. And yet she's never been on the Diamond top 300.

 

Great, but which superhero book is she writing now? And I'd love for Marvel/DC to make their way into school book fairs. Get them started, then they can come to my shop, really see what comics are out there.

 

Marvel isn't doing anything DC isn't doing, which is a problem in itself, but it pretty much means Marvel's loss of marketshare is due to DC's Rebirth having taken place just recently and not because Cap said Hail Hydra. Belive me, when Marvel puts a shiny new #1 on 80 titles for two months in a row, their marketshare in the direct market will be back to where it always was. And believe me, they already got the next reboot scheduled.

 

And believe me, every time they go back to that well, the well is dryer and dryer. As I said, sales were mess this year, for both Marvel and DC, and Rebirth gave it a boost. Marvel is still bad, and getting worse. And even Rebirth wasn't close to New 52, because "been there, done that" means it doesn't work as well the next time. Marvels been rebooting over and over, and people just don't care anymore.

 

It won't bring in any new readers, but it will make the ever shrinking pool of current readers add more titles to their pull list, which is what the real cause of these sales bumps is.

 

Exactly, so why is Marvel's plan to off the old readers, to bring in these new readers that don't exist?

 

If they wanted to actually bring in new readers, Iron Man should be all ages friendly, be a 100 page prestige bound magazine for $6.99, and be available in toy stores, book stores, book fairs, Wal Mart checkout lanes, and in vending machines at the movie theater where 60 million people lined up to watch the movie.

 

Couldn't agree with the bolded more. When comic racks disappeared from grocery store and toys store, etc, worst thing that ever happened. You need feeder places to wet the appetite.

 

Bottom line, comic sales were down double digits until DC Rebirth, which boosted it up to now only being down single digits. Marvel was losing readers before Rebirth, and have continued during it, not because of Rebirth, because of their books.

 

 

[jsilverjanet]

:ohnoez:The Agenda

 

Marvels 2017 crossover event

[01TheDude]

Reading the debate about the current state of comics in this thread certainly helps me understand why some post the doom and gloom threads. If new collectors are not being created, over time this hobby will probably shrink. I never really considered the impact of current books as I only collect SA/BA books-- ones from my era. I find it a safe way to avoid all the craziness of reboots/etc, although it does limit my comic universe. A couple of decades is enough for me though.

[jsilverjanet]

I'm curious to hear the OPs order numbers for the titles he referenced

[revat]

Honestly the marvel current art has turned me off as much as anything

 

I like asm, ms marvel, wolverine enough, but don't love art on any of them. Deadpool art is ok. I think the black panther is well done in writing and art objectively, but doesn't click with me, though I think I'd enjoy it as a tv show

[reptilekingdie]

I gave up on marvel ever since they ended a series and began again with a #1. When Cho became the hulk, I am not buying marvel any longer. I am buying indies, goon, walking dead, hellboy for me. Once they realize the so called new readers aren't buying what they have to offer will they be going back to the OG characters?

[catrick339]

Old news.

 

I gave up on moderns fifteen years ago, and all new books when Cererbus ended.

 

If something gets some good ink I pick up the trade and read a big fat ol' comic book, done in one.

 

Marvel didn't learn its lesson in the 70's when it diluted its core titles going for market share, didn't learn it in the 90's when it went for a chunk of distribution and wound up nearly bankrupt, and now it's going to take another beating for tearing out all the stuff that made it an occasional winner to begin with.

 

I'll be picking up everything published in the new millennium cheap one day soon when the next batch of comic shops go under, and I buy up the old store stock.

 

I find it ironic you could get through the wasteland that Cerebus turned into but gave up on Marvel.

My last purchases were the Sentry , Spidey, Cage Avengers and the first few Young Avengers.

Bring back Jim Shooter. Or Tom DeFalco.

 

Force of habit, for the last hundred issues. I bough the first issue off the stands for a buck, when the main story was over and the indulgences began, I just kept buying it to keep the run going. I reread the whole thing a couple years back, damned if I didn't enjoy it a great deal...right up to issue 200,

 

After that? ...

 

But that describes my buying habits on durned near everything from about 1995 on. Since then my buying has gone back into earlier and more expensive back issues. 50's 40's, even 30's for a few items, and I still don't regret giving up on the moderns.