Marvel has lost its way

[Ryan.]

Usagi Yojimbo is all-ages and it is good.

[drotto]

But we must remember that massive retconning and re-invention of characters is not Marvel exclusive. DC is now saying Wonder Woman is a lesbian. Given her back story that may not be a stretch, but it is another example of changing characters to meet an agenda.

[Buzzetta]

But we must remember that massive retconning and re-invention of characters is not Marvel exclusive. DC is now saying Wonder Woman is a lesbian. Given her back story that may not be a stretch, but it is another example of changing characters to meet an agenda.

 

I read Pak's explanation and that is not what he said and to tell the truth... Pak's explanation not only makes sense but it was something that was assumed for the most part over the years by many.

[bababooey]

But we must remember that massive retconning and re-invention of characters is not Marvel exclusive. DC is now saying Wonder Woman is a lesbian. Given her back story that may not be a stretch, but it is another example of changing characters to meet an agenda.

 

I read Pak's explanation and that is not what he said and to tell the truth... Pak's explanation not only makes sense but it was something that was assumed for the most part over the years by many.

...and grown ups too!

 

[grebal]

It seems that a single movie that performs (even mediocre) at the box office probably generates more corporate profits than the entire floppy division.

 

If so, comics might develop simply into a 'loss leader', something that loses money but keeps other divisions rolling in clover.

 

Perhaps there's even enough sales of merchandise related to the new unfamiliar Benetton rainbow of characters Hulk, Spidey, IM, Thor and for worldwide sales and future global merchandising of action figures, dolls, shirts, cartoons and movies, etc. to overcome any drop in comic sales, which do not generate even close to the profits realized in other depts.

 

[Please don't infer that I'm cool with milking the past characters as a cash cow until the cow is dead.]

i think if it ever got to the point that Marvel and DC weren't turning a profit from publishing comics, and I think we are still a LONG way off from that happening, rather than continue to churn out comics to 20,000 readers to promote a movie that needs to sell thirty million tickets to break even, they'd just license the comics out to Boom or Dynamite or IDW and call it a day, like Disney used to do with their own properties.

 

Exactly. I agree.

 

My premise is that publishing comics has become incidental to Disney's exploitation of the characters for movie & merchandising profits that are no longer dependent on profit/loss they might turn in the comics publishing business (including all the many new versions of Marvel's mainstays). It would seem from the content that *more and different characters* (preferably 'rainbow' Benetton where possible) overshadows any concerns about story or character quality when it comes to Disney's bottom line - which is far more impacted by movies and stuff than selling comic books or trades.

 

So, if my theory is right, subcontracting the comics part out to an indie publishing house but maintaining control of editorial policy would suffice. My point in sum: don't think they care about the comics any more, they own the characters and will exploit without any regard to comic buyers; it's not about the comics, it's about what they can do with the characters afterwards.

[dupont2005]

I think it's always been that, just now with a film studio backing them. Marvel doesn't double ship a comic because it's going to improve the quality by cutting deadlines in half. They don't release issues of filler material when the creative team is running late because it will make fans happy. I realized when I was 10 years old or so that crossover events weren't for my benefit. I read Amazing Spider-Man, now all the sudden it's "hey kid, better buy Ghost Rider and whatever the hell else we mix up in this story or you won't know what's going on and you just wasted a buck fifty!" Being a kid and on a limited budget, that usually meant I had to put Groo back, or skip a week in the bargain bins looking for Archie and Elfquest. Looking back, I regret not just sticking to Groo, Archie, and Elfquest.

[ygogolak]

Foolkiller

Prowler

Great Lakes Avengers

Occupy Avengers

Cage with artwork that's just

 

Plus an agenda that seems to be to do away with their iconic characters.

 

All great ways to make sure your market share declines.

 

The Cage artwork may not be your thing, but that doesn't mean it's bad. Tartakovsky is a well accomplished producer and artist with an audience much larger than just comic books. I would much rather look at his different style than another JR Jr. comic.

This reminds me of one of my LCS owners. Hates the "new age" of comic values changing because of movie and TV.

Times change and comics do as well.

[dupont2005]

I think the current house style is better than the 90's era house style, but still prefer pretty much anything else over the house style.

[DavidTheDavid]

I don't buy much new marvel, but there has been some great stuff in there. But yeah, not necessarily what's selling in large numbers. This last Wednesday, I hit the friendly local comic shop and was just so confused by all the variant covers that I had no idea if I could step into a title or not. I quit trying to sort through what appeared to be 5 variants of one comic, of three titles all with the same lead character in the title, and moved on.

[revat]

I don't buy much new marvel, but there has been some great stuff in there. But yeah, not necessarily what's selling in large numbers. This last Wednesday, I hit the friendly local comic shop and was just so confused by all the variant covers that I had no idea if I could step into a title or not. I quit trying to sort through what appeared to be 5 variants of one comic, of three titles all with the same lead character in the title, and moved on.

 

find some store employees or some critics you trust, and just go buy/read the trades a few months later based on their recommendations. Then if you like those trades, you can consider picking up the monthlies if you prefer reading actual comics.

[herc2000]

I don't personally know anyone who buys digital comics, maybe that's a bigger thing in the US than the UK?

 

Anyone interested in a 9.8 (digital) Hulk 181 with white pages? Only a fraction of the real deal, $500, .

 

Yeah it might be good for just a quick read, but in my opinion, comic book collectors should want the real thing, even for modern comics. I mean surely you want to possibly have a return on your $3-$20 investment, rather than it just being something virtual in cyberspace of no value or collectability?

 

I want something physical to show for my money, surprises me some others don't think the same :-(

[ygogolak]

That's probably why you don't know anyone who buys digital. You're equating comics to value, not a story to read.

[Buzzetta]

I don't personally know anyone who buys digital comics, maybe that's a bigger thing in the US than the UK?

 

Anyone interested in a 9.8 (digital) Hulk 181 with white pages? Only a fraction of the real deal, $500, .

 

Yeah it might be good for just a quick read, but in my opinion, comic book collectors should want the real thing, even for modern comics. I mean surely you want to possibly have a return on your $3-$20 investment, rather than it just being something virtual in cyberspace of no value or collectability?

 

I want something physical to show for my money, surprises me some others don't think the same :-(

 

This is an excellent point and one that I actually wrestled with before subscribing to Marvel Unlimited. I buy and collect Spider-man... I am only interested in reading on a one and done basis everything else. The fact is that if I were to actually buy the issues that I read I would be stuck with comics sitting in boxes that I would have no long term love or use for that would only get me on average about 25-50 cents on the dollar if that. There would be a lot more wasted space of more nonsense.

 

However... at $70? a year and at a price of $4 a comic... As soon as I have read around 20 issues PER YEAR it is already paying for itself. If I read through 100 issues a year... that would have cost me $400 in the stores for stuff that I would have to then TRY to sell and maintain.

 

No thanks... I will buy my ASM to keep up the collection, spend $70 to read everything else and then put that money toward an extra Golden Age book or two and not spend my life tripping over boxes of comics.

[lou_fine]

 

What companies plan, and what happens, often don't jive. Like here. Marvels market share has plummeted. There are no new readers coming in.

Marvel hasn't lost sales, it's just that DC gained sales.

 

 

Marvel is really losing market share not total sales which was correctly already stated. DC decided to adopt a faster frequency for reboots and are now in the game.

 

 

I find it rather puzzling that most people are saying that Marvel is losing market share to DC, and yet the following Mayo article for April 2016 sales indicate that Marvel's market share is virtually double what DC's market share is.

 

I thought for awhile there several years ago, that Marvel and DC's market shares were almost the same with Marvel having just a slight lead.

 

 

There are countless articles online about what a great year for sales Marvel is having in 2016. Here's one, from April, but it still represents Q1, and we barely finished Q2 so I assume not too much has changed

 

http://www.cbr.com/mayo-report-marvels-marvelous-april-sales-dcs-rebirth-what-they-mean-to-retailers/

 

[NoMan]

I have a hard time reading stuff on a computer monitor.

[grebal]

^ Using 'comic book reader' and the many e-comics I have (format *.cbr, or sometimes regular pdf files) you can adjust the size to make it larger.

 

I think you can toggle between views by typing Ctrl-F (make full comic page on screen, with smaller text) and also can make largest size with Ctrl-W (spread comic out to take up the entire width of screen, only see top half of page, but much larger).

 

Not the same as reading a physical comic, but some benefits compensate, like it's easier to read fifty issues in a row, no playing with tape, in/out of bags, no risk to condition if you have nicer copies, etc.

[Ken Aldred]

I have a hard time reading stuff on a computer monitor.

 

Sit in an armchair, with a drink of your choice, and use a large iPad Pro to read your comics.

[NoMan]

I've gotta be the saddest person when it comes to understanding technology. One day I'll come out of my cave…

 

[aerischan]

I don't personally know anyone who buys digital comics, maybe that's a bigger thing in the US than the UK?

 

Anyone interested in a 9.8 (digital) Hulk 181 with white pages? Only a fraction of the real deal, $500, .

 

Yeah it might be good for just a quick read, but in my opinion, comic book collectors should want the real thing, even for modern comics. I mean surely you want to possibly have a return on your $3-$20 investment, rather than it just being something virtual in cyberspace of no value or collectability?

 

I want something physical to show for my money, surprises me some others don't think the same :-(

Psst, Hulk #181 is $1.99 on Kindle/Comixology/Marvel and is available to read on Marvel Unlimited ($10/mo or $70/yr). No collectible value but at least I don't have to sell organs if I just want to be able to read it. Besides, there's probably a much greater chance the comics will be worth 25-50 cents down the road than there is it being $100+ inflation-adjusted.

 

Also, no need to spend extra on bags and boards, and the purchased issues are always in pristine condition. No rusty staples or yellowing of pages even after 50 years and no need to buy multiple copies if you want a backup (some publishers even allow you to download DRM-free copies on Comixology). Thus far, there are no variant edition covers for digital, either.

 

I reckon females are probably a big market for digital comics and online shops. I know I find the "hallowed old boys club" environment in some of the LCS I've been to quite daunting.

[Mercury Man]

I've gotta be the saddest person when it comes to understanding technology. One day I'll come out of my cave…

 

It's over-rated-

 

I hate downloading music. I still like owning the actual ablum/cd.

 

Same with comics. I like the actual book in my hand.