modern ASM #667 variant sells for $9K

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

I have enjoyed this discussion. I learned a lot. Points and counterpoints have been pretty good, from a perspective of somebody learning the ins and outs of comic collecting.

 

A question: Is there a possibility that the publisher has actual records that can validate (or not) the facts, and does the publisher cooperate with disclosing such information in the interest of the hobby?

 

Yes Marvel knows the approximate print run (in some instances more issues may have been run but due to slight production issues are unsuitable for distribution and are not counted as part of the print run). They do not publicly release variant print runs.

 

Thank you. That was a real help. That is unfortunate, because it seems to me that would boost the hobby and their own reputation. It has already been printed, so what is the point of secretiveness, unless they didn't ship but a few, because it was a stinker and they would be embarrassed.

 

If they don't release print runs, where is all the speculation of how many are still floating around coming from? Wishful thinking or someone or some entity creating a rarity that isn't?

 

Does the publisher destroy any non-shipped copies after a certain amount of time, or send them to the Dollar store like HotWheels does?

[mysterio]

The smoking gun is the rarity factor. The census supports this. ASM #667 simply does not appear. No others have appeared after the 9K sale, which did happen.

 

My question is why kick and scream about this? Does it matter what others spend their money on? If wishing to analyze such things, why not discuss something truly inane - such as the artificial bubble around Werewolf By Night #32, featuring a character yet to appear anywhere beyond the comic format.

 

Finally, I think some are being unfair to Jay. He may not have all the data, but he certainly hasn't been proven wrong.

 

It isn't the money, it is the unsupported claims J makes. And you've missed the point. He doesn't have to be proven wrong, he has to prove the statements he makes to be correct. In other words, someone could be running around saying that invisible unicorns must exist because nobody has proven that they don't. The onus is on J to prove that the claims he makes are correct, and he cannot or will not do this.

[jimbo_707]

Jay is in need for more 'believers' in this book to support the pass around value of this hot potato. The fewer people that believe in it means that someone somewhere will be left holding the book asking for a price that the market would never support.

 

I do believe that there are more out there than is reported.

 

He can tell me that I am wrong all he wants. At the end of the day... I point the finger at him and believe that he is wrong.

 

Either way it is not only a book I shrug at, it's a book I openly mock for people shelling down $10,000 for. Seriously.

 

 

Delusional.

 

The facts are the facts, they don't require a "narrative", they are what they are: Nearly 6 years; Just 29 census copies; Just 7 public slab sales.

 

29 census copies is considered a small number for variants? I would not have known that.

 

I mostly buy GA; I own very few books that have that many copies in the census.

 

A while back I bought a Catman Comics #10: 11 copies in the census, 3 of them restored. My 7.5 is the 2nd-highest graded (behind an 8.0).

 

A few years ago I picked up a high-grade copy of Fight Comics #20, which has 12 total copies in the census.

 

Even with a mainstream title like Detective Comics, 29 would be a big number. I recently bought a non-CGC'd copy of Detective Comics #208, which has only 13 copies in the census, and 4 of those are restored.

 

I would call all of those books tough in grade; I wouldn't consider any of them rare. By GA standards, a rare book might on have 2 or 3 copies in the census.

 

I won't offer an opinion on whether $9K is a fair price—I'm too out of my element to say—but it does surprise me.

[Fan Boy]

I have enjoyed this discussion. I learned a lot. Points and counterpoints have been pretty good, from a perspective of somebody learning the ins and outs of comic collecting.

 

A question: Is there a possibility that the publisher has actual records that can validate (or not) the facts, and does the publisher cooperate with disclosing such information in the interest of the hobby?

 

Yes Marvel knows the approximate print run (in some instances more issues may have been run but due to slight production issues are unsuitable for distribution and are not counted as part of the print run). They do not publicly release variant print runs.

 

Thank you. That was a real help. That is unfortunate, because it seems to me that would boost the hobby and their own reputation. It has already been printed, so what is the point of secretiveness, unless they didn't ship but a few, because it was a stinker and they would be embarrassed.

 

If they don't release print runs, where is all the speculation of how many are still floating around coming from? Wishful thinking or someone or some entity creating a rarity that isn't?

 

Does the publisher destroy any non-shipped copies after a certain amount of time, or send them to the Dollar store like HotWheels does?

 

Good questions! That is the problem here...

 

Where does the one case of 225 ASM 667 Variant copies as said, come from? Who is the original source in saying that?

 

Jaydogrules, you are the one who started all the agurements here. Don't deny that. I have your quote here:

 

I believe that despite what Jaydog claims that there is a warehouse out there with a few cases full of them.

 

Well that would be miraculous since there was only one case pack of 225 produced (of which many were rumoured to have been damaged during distribution).

 

-J.

 

Unquoted

 

And you have ALREADY had said in bold in your last post that Marvel didn't publish the data. Quote: "They do not publicly release variant print runs" Unquote.

 

So that means Marvel wasn't the source. Ruled out

 

Diamond distribution company in delivering the variants wasn't the source because the email you "claimed" told you that. Since there is no supporting evidence to that, so it is not counted. Ruled out.

 

You kept pulling up the links from previews catalog, diamond distribution company or Marvel talked about the ASM 667 variant as the incident to order as part of promoting with regular other book. None of them had said anything about the number of how many variants printed. Only the "1:100 variant". The links are inconsistent at the point. Not good edivence enough!

 

Again, that is ruled out.

 

Please understand that. You are the one who brought up the "one case pack of 225 produced" statement.

 

Not us here.

 

Ok, we get it about the ASM 667 variant. How it is few in number, yes. But as there is no official source to tell us how many copies. It has been 6 years since and no one has the paper documents or sources to show that? I'm not buying the story.

 

There MUST be at least one solid paper document with that information somewhere. So far, you have not provided that. if Marvel do have that, they are not sharing with us ... so how do you know that?

 

Sorry, but it is what it is. Please use common sense and have supporting to back up your words.

 

Off the soapbox...

 

 

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

I have enjoyed this discussion. I learned a lot. Points and counterpoints have been pretty good, from a perspective of somebody learning the ins and outs of comic collecting.

 

A question: Is there a possibility that the publisher has actual records that can validate (or not) the facts, and does the publisher cooperate with disclosing such information in the interest of the hobby?

 

Yes Marvel knows the approximate print run (in some instances more issues may have been run but due to slight production issues are unsuitable for distribution and are not counted as part of the print run). They do not publicly release variant print runs.

 

Thank you. That was a real help. That is unfortunate, because it seems to me that would boost the hobby and their own reputation. It has already been printed, so what is the point of secretiveness, unless they didn't ship but a few, because it was a stinker and they would be embarrassed.

 

 

If they don't release print runs, where is all the speculation of how many are still floating around coming from? Wishful thinking or someone or some entity creating a rarity that isn't?

 

Does the publisher destroy any non-shipped copies after a certain amount of time, or send them to the Dollar store like HotWheels does?

 

Good questions! That is the problem here...

 

Where does the one case of 225 ASM 667 Variant copies as said, come from? Who is the original source in saying that?

 

Jaydogrules, you are the one who started all the agurements here. Don't deny that. I have your quote here:

 

I believe that despite what Jaydog claims that there is a warehouse out there with a few cases full of them.

 

Well that would be miraculous since there was only one case pack of 225 produced (of which many were rumoured to have been damaged during distribution).

 

-J.

 

Unquoted

 

And you have ALREADY had said in bold in your last post that Marvel didn't publish the data. Quote: "They do not publicly release variant print runs" Unquote.

 

So that means Marvel wasn't the source. Ruled out

 

Diamond distribution company in delivering the variants wasn't the source because the email you "claimed" told you that. Since there is no supporting evidence to that, so it is not counted. Ruled out.

 

You kept pulling up the links from previews catalog, diamond distribution company or Marvel talked about the ASM 667 variant as the incident to order as part of promoting with regular other book. None of them had said anything about the number of how many variants printed. Only the "1:100 variant". The links are inconsistent at the point. Not good edivence enough!

 

Again, that is ruled out.

 

Please understand that. You are the one who brought up the "one case pack of 225 produced" statement.

 

Not us here.

 

Ok, we get it about the ASM 667 variant. How it is few in number, yes. But as there is no official source to tell us how many copies. It has been 6 years since and no one has the paper documents or sources to show that? I'm not buying the story.

 

There MUST be at least one solid paper document with that information somewhere. So far, you have not provided that. if Marvel do have that, they are not sharing with us ... so how do you know that?

 

Sorry, but it is what it is. Please use common sense and have supporting to back up your words.

 

Off the soapbox...

 

 

Just a slight correction, in that the Mr. Jay that answered my question about publishers releasing data is not the same Jay that you are mentioning (I don't think). The Mr. Jay that answered my question is an attorney, and as we know, barristers do not have a vested interest in non-facts.

[october]

Jay is in need for more 'believers' in this book to support the pass around value of this hot potato. The fewer people that believe in it means that someone somewhere will be left holding the book asking for a price that the market would never support.

 

I do believe that there are more out there than is reported.

 

He can tell me that I am wrong all he wants. At the end of the day... I point the finger at him and believe that he is wrong.

 

Either way it is not only a book I shrug at, it's a book I openly mock for people shelling down $10,000 for. Seriously.

 

 

Delusional.

 

The facts are the facts, they don't require a "narrative", they are what they are: Nearly 6 years; Just 29 census copies; Just 7 public slab sales.

 

29 census copies is considered a small number for variants? I would not have known that.

 

I mostly buy GA; I own very few books that have that many copies in the census.

 

A while back I bought a Catman Comics #10: 11 copies in the census, 3 of them restored. My 7.5 is the 2nd-highest graded (behind an 8.0).

 

A few years ago I picked up a high-grade copy of Fight Comics #20, which has 12 total copies in the census.

 

Even with a mainstream title like Detective Comics, 29 would be a big number. I recently bought a non-CGC'd copy of Detective Comics #208, which has only 13 copies in the census, and 4 of those are restored.

 

I would call all of those books tough in grade; I wouldn't consider any of them rare. By GA standards, a rare book might on have 2 or 3 copies in the census.

 

I won't offer an opinion on whether $9K is a fair price—I'm too out of my element to say—but it does surprise me.

 

Good point. 29 copies on the census is NOT rare by general comic standards. By modern standards maybe. A golden age book with that many copies on the census wouldn't even merit an "uncommon" designation.

[Jaydogrules]

I have enjoyed this discussion. I learned a lot. Points and counterpoints have been pretty good, from a perspective of somebody learning the ins and outs of comic collecting.

 

A question: Is there a possibility that the publisher has actual records that can validate (or not) the facts, and does the publisher cooperate with disclosing such information in the interest of the hobby?

 

Yes Marvel knows the approximate print run (in some instances more issues may have been run but due to slight production issues are unsuitable for distribution and are not counted as part of the print run). They do not publicly release variant print runs.

 

Thank you. That was a real help. That is unfortunate, because it seems to me that would boost the hobby and their own reputation. It has already been printed, so what is the point of secretiveness, unless they didn't ship but a few, because it was a stinker and they would be embarrassed.

 

If they don't release print runs, where is all the speculation of how many are still floating around coming from? Wishful thinking or someone or some entity creating a rarity that isn't?

 

Does the publisher destroy any non-shipped copies after a certain amount of time, or send them to the Dollar store like HotWheels does?

 

Good questions! That is the problem here...

 

Where does the one case of 225 ASM 667 Variant copies as said, come from? Who is the original source in saying that?

 

Jaydogrules, you are the one who started all the agurements here. Don't deny that. I have your quote here:

 

I believe that despite what Jaydog claims that there is a warehouse out there with a few cases full of them.

 

Well that would be miraculous since there was only one case pack of 225 produced (of which many were rumoured to have been damaged during distribution).

 

-J.

 

Unquoted

 

And you have ALREADY had said in bold in your last post that Marvel didn't publish the data. Quote: "They do not publicly release variant print runs" Unquote.

 

So that means Marvel wasn't the source. Ruled out

 

Diamond distribution company in delivering the variants wasn't the source because the email you "claimed" told you that. Since there is no supporting evidence to that, so it is not counted. Ruled out.

 

You kept pulling up the links from previews catalog, diamond distribution company or Marvel talked about the ASM 667 variant as the incident to order as part of promoting with regular other book. None of them had said anything about the number of how many variants printed. Only the "1:100 variant". The links are inconsistent at the point. Not good edivence enough!

 

Again, that is ruled out.

 

Please understand that. You are the one who brought up the "one case pack of 225 produced" statement.

 

Not us here.

 

Ok, we get it about the ASM 667 variant. How it is few in number, yes. But as there is no official source to tell us how many copies. It has been 6 years since and no one has the paper documents or sources to show that? I'm not buying the story.

 

There MUST be at least one solid paper document with that information somewhere. So far, you have not provided that. if Marvel do have that, they are not sharing with us ... so how do you know that?

 

Sorry, but it is what it is. Please use common sense and have supporting to back up your words.

 

Off the soapbox...

 

 

You will never have the kind of "evidence" you are demanding.

 

So maybe you should be the one using common sense : 6 years, 29 slabs, 7 public slab sales, maaaaybe 2 raw copies a year. Extremely skimpy numbers for a highly valued modern variant indeed.

 

And I don't see you quibbling with Buzzetta's demonstrably preposterous "belief" in "cases" of the book still sitting in some warehouse somewhere (which was the post I responded to because it was so trite and utterly laughable, so no I didn't "start the argument") . Care to make such demands of "evidence" from him, or at the very least a basis for such a "belief"?

 

-J.

 

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

 

Another question please: The member has stated that only one case of 225 was produced. How is this known if the publisher does not release (disclose) variant printing runs? If it is true that there is only one case, then that information must have been from the publisher, no? If that is the case, then is the publisher involved in some manner with the present information release in a nefarious manner and for personal economic motive, or did an employee (or former employee) disclose the information? Of course I am assuming the 1 case of 225 claim made by the member is in fact a fact.

[ygogolak]

I believe that despite what Jaydog claims that there is a warehouse out there with a few cases full of them.

Exactly

Nothing rare about these books. For one, no printer would waste their time with a ridiculously small order like some people claim exist.

 

There are indie's that print 25-50 books regularly.

[FlyingDonut]

You obviously don't know the meaning of "circumstantial evidence". Nor would you know or necessarily hear about unfulfilled orders on a book if only a handful of retailers actually knew about the book to order it in the first place (and that's assuming they even had the qualifying orders).

 

And remaindered case packs of books being sold by Marvel nobody ordered are not relevant to this conversation.

 

So I will break this down for you one more time, and then leave you to stew in your anguish regarding this book.

 

Circumstantial Evidence:

 

1) Only 29 copies on the census, nearly six years after release, and despite sales of raw copies in the thousands since 2012 (a year after it was released). For some perspective, the Vader Down #1 Sketch variant is a 1:5000 and has 27 copies on the census after less than one year. I know the print runs are not the same, but still, a point worth making.

 

2) Only 7 public sales in those nearly six years.

 

3) Only two raw copies sold publicly in 2016, and just 2 in 2015.

 

All of this is supported by the direct evidence as communicated by the other boardie who looked into things as an unsolicited favour.

 

And to my earlier point about there never being a book like this one, well here you go:

 

1) Name one other variant, in a flagship title, that was announced after the initial dealer FOC (final order cut-off), and for only one week, with no prior announcements whatsoever.

 

2) Name one other variant in a flagship title, where the incentive offered to obtain it, was literally directly undercut and undermined by competing ordering qualifications of the other variant that was offered at the same time, thus further suppressing its numbers

 

3) Name one variant in a flagship title (Spider-man, for godssake ) that sells for thousands and thousands of dollars for years, and yet remains a ghost.

 

Whether you choose to believe it or accept it, is irrelevant. Nothing you say matters. Nothing I say matters. It is what it is.

 

There is truly nothing else like it. It's an anomaly. A freak. An aberration. A fluke. In our hobby, that's like catnip.

 

-J.

 

Batman 608 RRP.

[FlyingDonut]

You can get an amazing fantasy 15 cgc 1.0 for that price

 

"What I collect rules, what you collect drools."

[mrwoogieman]

You can get an amazing fantasy 15 cgc 1.0 for that price

 

"What I collect rules, what you collect drools."

 

Or as Mike from American Pickers likes to say, "sometimes one man's junk, is just one man's junk."

 

 

[october]

You can get an amazing fantasy 15 cgc 1.0 for that price

 

"What I collect rules, what you collect drools."

 

Such a dumb quote.

[mysterio]

You can get an amazing fantasy 15 cgc 1.0 for that price

 

"What I collect rules, what you collect drools."

 

Such a dumb quote.

 

Especially when the quote simply references the price of an AF #15 in 1.0 with nothing negative about the book in question.

[october]

You can get an amazing fantasy 15 cgc 1.0 for that price

 

"What I collect rules, what you collect drools."

 

Such a dumb quote.

 

Especially when the quote simply references the price of an AF #15 in 1.0 with nothing negative about the book in question.

 

Relativism.

[Jaydogrules]

You can get an amazing fantasy 15 cgc 1.0 for that price

 

"What I collect rules, what you collect drools."

 

Or as Mike from American Pickers likes to say, "sometimes one man's junk, is just one man's junk."

 

 

$9000 "junk".

 

-J.

[ygogolak]

You can get an amazing fantasy 15 cgc 1.0 for that price

 

Try a 2.5. If you are willing to accept a small amount of CT then you might go much higher.

 

:gossip:If you can afford a $9k Modern variant, you probably already have a higher grade AF15.

[Jaydogrules]

You can get an amazing fantasy 15 cgc 1.0 for that price

 

Try a 2.5. If you are willing to accept a small amount of CT then you might go much higher.

 

:gossip:If you can afford a $9k Modern variant, you probably already have a higher grade AF15.

 

+1

 

....you can also get an AF 15 whenever.

 

You have to wait literally years between 9.8 copies of this book, and usually months for any copy to show up for a chance to own one.

 

Relativism?

 

-J.

[thirdgreenham]

Jay,

 

Do you know of any copies of this book that is/may be available for sale right now?

 

-Interested Andy

[Jaydogrules]

Jay,

 

Do you know of any copies of this book that is/may be available for sale right now?

 

-Interested Andy

 

I believe a boardie may still have a 9.4 that he's been thinking about selling. Feel free to PM me for details.

 

-J.