modern ASM #667 variant sells for $9K

[Jaydogrules]

 

1) Only 29 copies on the census, nearly six years after release, and despite sales of raw copies in the thousands since 2012 (a year after it was released). For some perspective, the Vader Down #1 Sketch variant is a 1:5000 and has 27 copies on the census after less than one year. I know the print runs are not the same, but still, a point worth making.

 

CGC Census has nothing to do with print run. There is absolutely no correlation that can be made from these numbers. Zero. Any knowledgeable comic fan with any real experience in the market or any statistics expert would tell you that your comparison makes no sense.

 

2) Only 6 public sales in those nearly six years.

Once again... well let me explain it to you like this. Without the private sales numbers, which of course, we don't have, that information is possibly misleading, because it's inconclusive.

 

3) Only two raw copies sold publicly in 2016, and just 2 in 2015.

Without the private sales numbers, which of course, we don't have, that information is possibly misleading, because it's inconclusive.

 

All of this is supported by the direct evidence as communicated by the other boardie who looked into things as an unsolicited favour.

 

That's NOT evidence as it's simply what you SAY. There's no proof. Someone could just as easily come on here and say HE talked to someone at Marvel who told him it DIDN'T happen that way. It's all just heresy.

 

1) Name one other variant, in a flagship title, that was announced after the initial dealer FOC (final order cut-off), and for only one week, with no prior announcements whatsoever.

It was announced on the 15th, 3 days before FOC, not after. The announcement is still searchable in Diamond Daily News. Marvel makes last minute announcements for variants all of the time to try and bump up orders.

 

2) Name one other variant in a flagship title, where the incentive offered to obtain it, was literally directly undercut and undermined by competing ordering qualifications of the other variant that was offered at the same time, thus further suppressing its numbers

How'd it undercut? The more you order the more you get. Any additional variants including the FF Anniversary would help bump up it's numbers.

 

3) Name one variant in a flagship title (Spider-man, for godssake ) that sells for thousands and thousands of dollars for years, and yet remains a ghost.

That doesn't verify it's print run or the reasons.

 

Whether you choose to believe it or accept it, is irrelevant. Nothing you say matters. Nothing I say matters. It is what it is.

Sure it does. The truth matters. And you're not telling the truth. You're speculating and making up information for why you think it is. THAT is what doesn't matter. Because you don't truly know.

 

There is truly nothing else like it. It's an anomaly. A freak. An aberration. A fluke. In our hobby, that's like catnip.

 

-J.

As someone else pointed out... 6 years is a very short time in this hobby. A hobby that has plenty of other, at one time or another, short printed books that proved NOT to be. History is NOT on your side.

 

You are absolutely, thoroughly, unequivocally, 100% wrong (as you are with basically everything else pertaining to this book).

 

Here is the actual original announcement from Marvel regarding this book. (I've linked it before):

 

https://news.marvel.com/comics/16250/sneak_peek_gabrielle_dellotto_amazing_spider-man_667_variant/

 

Notice the article publication date of July 11, 2011.

 

Which was followed by the Diamond solicit to retailers (which is most likely the only link you actually saw and are referencing since the one above is no longer really searchable):

 

http://www.diamondcomics.com/Home/1/1/3/746?articleID=110712

 

...Where Diamond specifically references the Marvel announcement (of July 11, 2011), and extending the FOC by one week from that original FOC date (July 11, 2011) to July 18, 2011. And as you can see, none of the orders for the FF variant (which was percentile based, and allowed retailers to order as many as they wanted), counted toward the Dell'otto (which was a 1:100, ratio based, and tied only to the regular cover).

 

Obviously few retailers either noticed this announcement, ordered enough of the regular cover to qualify, or bothered to go back into their accounts to specifically order just this one book , even if they did. Let's not forget that this is also right after the huge ASM 666 even which, itself, resulted in nearly 150 variants, so yes, ASM variant fatigue was also, likely a factor in all of this as well. This combination of events, along with the others I have mentioned earlier readily explain why the book is a ghost and so highly sought. There has never been anything else like it that I have seen or that anyone has been able to point out. It is a fluke, and no amount of time passing will change that. If anything, they will just become even less frequently offered and even more coveted and valuable.

 

So seriously dude, just stop. Really. Stop. I think I got it already. You don't like the book and you're pissed off because you can't find a copy to sell for a sick profit. But just stop. You have no facts, and you ignore all evidence that shows you just don't know what you're talking about.

 

Because you really, really don't.

 

-J.

[Lazyboy]

All of this is supported by the direct evidence as communicated by the other boardie who looked into things as an unsolicited favour.

 

That's NOT evidence as it's simply what you SAY. There's no proof. Someone could just as easily come on here and say HE talked to someone at Marvel who told him it DIDN'T happen that way. It's all just heresy.

 

Didn't jaybuck43 already do that?

 

Wait, you meant hearsay, right? I don't want to get involved in any heresy.

[grebal]

All of this is supported by the direct evidence as communicated by the other boardie who looked into things as an unsolicited favour.

 

That's NOT evidence as it's simply what you SAY. There's no proof. Someone could just as easily come on here and say HE talked to someone at Marvel who told him it DIDN'T happen that way. It's all just heresy.

 

Didn't jaybuck43 already do that?

 

Wait, you meant hearsay, right? I don't want to get involved in any heresy.

 

Definitely don't want eternal punishment, that's for sure.

Something like a world with only two comics, one the ASM 667 variant, the other full of ad pages that keep saying at the bottom "continued on the following page" but no story pages. . .

[Prince Namor]

 

1) Only 29 copies on the census, nearly six years after release, and despite sales of raw copies in the thousands since 2012 (a year after it was released). For some perspective, the Vader Down #1 Sketch variant is a 1:5000 and has 27 copies on the census after less than one year. I know the print runs are not the same, but still, a point worth making.

 

CGC Census has nothing to do with print run. There is absolutely no correlation that can be made from these numbers. Zero. Any knowledgeable comic fan with any real experience in the market or any statistics expert would tell you that your comparison makes no sense.

 

2) Only 6 public sales in those nearly six years.

Once again... well let me explain it to you like this. Without the private sales numbers, which of course, we don't have, that information is possibly misleading, because it's inconclusive.

 

3) Only two raw copies sold publicly in 2016, and just 2 in 2015.

Without the private sales numbers, which of course, we don't have, that information is possibly misleading, because it's inconclusive.

 

All of this is supported by the direct evidence as communicated by the other boardie who looked into things as an unsolicited favour.

 

That's NOT evidence as it's simply what you SAY. There's no proof. Someone could just as easily come on here and say HE talked to someone at Marvel who told him it DIDN'T happen that way. It's all just heresy.

 

1) Name one other variant, in a flagship title, that was announced after the initial dealer FOC (final order cut-off), and for only one week, with no prior announcements whatsoever.

It was announced on the 15th, 3 days before FOC, not after. The announcement is still searchable in Diamond Daily News. Marvel makes last minute announcements for variants all of the time to try and bump up orders.

 

2) Name one other variant in a flagship title, where the incentive offered to obtain it, was literally directly undercut and undermined by competing ordering qualifications of the other variant that was offered at the same time, thus further suppressing its numbers

How'd it undercut? The more you order the more you get. Any additional variants including the FF Anniversary would help bump up it's numbers.

 

3) Name one variant in a flagship title (Spider-man, for godssake ) that sells for thousands and thousands of dollars for years, and yet remains a ghost.

That doesn't verify it's print run or the reasons.

 

Whether you choose to believe it or accept it, is irrelevant. Nothing you say matters. Nothing I say matters. It is what it is.

Sure it does. The truth matters. And you're not telling the truth. You're speculating and making up information for why you think it is. THAT is what doesn't matter. Because you don't truly know.

 

There is truly nothing else like it. It's an anomaly. A freak. An aberration. A fluke. In our hobby, that's like catnip.

 

-J.

As someone else pointed out... 6 years is a very short time in this hobby. A hobby that has plenty of other, at one time or another, short printed books that proved NOT to be. History is NOT on your side.

 

You are absolutely, thoroughly, unequivocally, 100% wrong (as you are with basically everything else pertaining to this book).

 

Here is the actual original announcement from Marvel regarding this book. (I've linked it before):

 

https://news.marvel.com/comics/16250/sneak_peek_gabrielle_dellotto_amazing_spider-man_667_variant/

 

Notice the article publication date of July 11, 2011.

 

Which was followed by the Diamond solicit to retailers (which is most likely the only link you actually saw and are referencing since the one above is no longer really searchable):

 

http://www.diamondcomics.com/Home/1/1/3/746?articleID=110712

 

...Where Diamond specifically references the Marvel announcement (of July 11, 2011), and extending the FOC by one week from that original FOC date (July 11, 2011) to July 18, 2011. And as you can see, none of the orders for the FF variant (which was percentile based, and allowed retailers to order as many as they wanted), counted toward the Dell'otto (which was a 1:100, ratio based, and tied only to the regular cover).

 

Obviously few retailers either noticed this announcement, ordered enough of the regular cover to qualify, or bothered to go back into their accounts to specifically order just this one book , even if they did. Let's not forget that this is also right after the huge ASM 666 even which, itself, resulted in nearly 150 variants, so yes, ASM variant fatigue was also, likely a factor in all of this as well. This combination of events, along with the others I have mentioned earlier readily explain why the book is a ghost and so highly sought. There has never been anything else like it that I have seen or that anyone has been able to point out. It is a fluke, and no amount of time passing will change that. If anything, they will just become even less frequently offered and even more coveted and valuable.

 

So seriously dude, just stop. Really. Stop. I think I got it already. You don't like the book and you're pissed off because you can't find a copy to sell for a sick profit. But just stop. You have no facts, and you ignore all evidence that shows you just don't know what you're talking about.

 

Because you really, really don't.

 

-J.

 

Retailers had a full week to order the variant. Marvel does this all the time. Adds an incentive at the last minute.

 

And increasing your orders for the FF Variant WOULD count toward the 1:100, there's no way for Marvel NOT to do that.

 

You're just making stuff up.

[Jaydogrules]

 

1) Only 29 copies on the census, nearly six years after release, and despite sales of raw copies in the thousands since 2012 (a year after it was released). For some perspective, the Vader Down #1 Sketch variant is a 1:5000 and has 27 copies on the census after less than one year. I know the print runs are not the same, but still, a point worth making.

 

CGC Census has nothing to do with print run. There is absolutely no correlation that can be made from these numbers. Zero. Any knowledgeable comic fan with any real experience in the market or any statistics expert would tell you that your comparison makes no sense.

 

2) Only 6 public sales in those nearly six years.

Once again... well let me explain it to you like this. Without the private sales numbers, which of course, we don't have, that information is possibly misleading, because it's inconclusive.

 

3) Only two raw copies sold publicly in 2016, and just 2 in 2015.

Without the private sales numbers, which of course, we don't have, that information is possibly misleading, because it's inconclusive.

 

All of this is supported by the direct evidence as communicated by the other boardie who looked into things as an unsolicited favour.

 

That's NOT evidence as it's simply what you SAY. There's no proof. Someone could just as easily come on here and say HE talked to someone at Marvel who told him it DIDN'T happen that way. It's all just heresy.

 

1) Name one other variant, in a flagship title, that was announced after the initial dealer FOC (final order cut-off), and for only one week, with no prior announcements whatsoever.

It was announced on the 15th, 3 days before FOC, not after. The announcement is still searchable in Diamond Daily News. Marvel makes last minute announcements for variants all of the time to try and bump up orders.

 

2) Name one other variant in a flagship title, where the incentive offered to obtain it, was literally directly undercut and undermined by competing ordering qualifications of the other variant that was offered at the same time, thus further suppressing its numbers

How'd it undercut? The more you order the more you get. Any additional variants including the FF Anniversary would help bump up it's numbers.

 

3) Name one variant in a flagship title (Spider-man, for godssake ) that sells for thousands and thousands of dollars for years, and yet remains a ghost.

That doesn't verify it's print run or the reasons.

 

Whether you choose to believe it or accept it, is irrelevant. Nothing you say matters. Nothing I say matters. It is what it is.

Sure it does. The truth matters. And you're not telling the truth. You're speculating and making up information for why you think it is. THAT is what doesn't matter. Because you don't truly know.

 

There is truly nothing else like it. It's an anomaly. A freak. An aberration. A fluke. In our hobby, that's like catnip.

 

-J.

As someone else pointed out... 6 years is a very short time in this hobby. A hobby that has plenty of other, at one time or another, short printed books that proved NOT to be. History is NOT on your side.

 

You are absolutely, thoroughly, unequivocally, 100% wrong (as you are with basically everything else pertaining to this book).

 

Here is the actual original announcement from Marvel regarding this book. (I've linked it before):

 

https://news.marvel.com/comics/16250/sneak_peek_gabrielle_dellotto_amazing_spider-man_667_variant/

 

Notice the article publication date of July 11, 2011.

 

Which was followed by the Diamond solicit to retailers (which is most likely the only link you actually saw and are referencing since the one above is no longer really searchable):

 

http://www.diamondcomics.com/Home/1/1/3/746?articleID=110712

 

...Where Diamond specifically references the Marvel announcement (of July 11, 2011), and extending the FOC by one week from that original FOC date (July 11, 2011) to July 18, 2011. And as you can see, none of the orders for the FF variant (which was percentile based, and allowed retailers to order as many as they wanted), counted toward the Dell'otto (which was a 1:100, ratio based, and tied only to the regular cover).

 

Obviously few retailers either noticed this announcement, ordered enough of the regular cover to qualify, or bothered to go back into their accounts to specifically order just this one book , even if they did. Let's not forget that this is also right after the huge ASM 666 even which, itself, resulted in nearly 150 variants, so yes, ASM variant fatigue was also, likely a factor in all of this as well. This combination of events, along with the others I have mentioned earlier readily explain why the book is a ghost and so highly sought. There has never been anything else like it that I have seen or that anyone has been able to point out. It is a fluke, and no amount of time passing will change that. If anything, they will just become even less frequently offered and even more coveted and valuable.

 

So seriously dude, just stop. Really. Stop. I think I got it already. You don't like the book and you're pissed off because you can't find a copy to sell for a sick profit. But just stop. You have no facts, and you ignore all evidence that shows you just don't know what you're talking about.

 

Because you really, really don't.

 

-J.

 

Retailers had a full week to order the variant. Marvel does this all the time. Adds an incentive at the last minute.

 

And increasing your orders for the FF Variant WOULD count toward the 1:100, there's no way for Marvel NOT to do that.

 

You're just making stuff up.

 

Wow. Just wow.

 

Maybe you should try actually reading the second link. But I'm pretty sure you're just trolling now, which means this conversation is over.

 

And no, Marvel doesn't "do this all the time".

 

Try producing another example with a similar series of links of even one other time.

 

You can't.

 

Good night.

 

-J.

[Awax]

where's RMA when we really need him ?

[exitmusicblue]

Why is "J." in the middle of 95% of the fracases I see on here?

[Buzzetta]

Jay is in need for more 'believers' in this book to support the pass around value of this hot potato. The fewer people that believe in it means that someone somewhere will be left holding the book asking for a price that the market would never support.

 

I do believe that there are more out there than is reported.

 

He can tell me that I am wrong all he wants. At the end of the day... I point the finger at him and believe that he is wrong.

 

Either way it is not only a book I shrug at, it's a book I openly mock for people shelling down $10,000 for. Seriously.

[jason4]

You can get an amazing fantasy 15 cgc 1.0 for that price

[Buzzetta]

You can get an amazing fantasy 15 cgc 1.0 for that price

 

Try a 2.5. If you are willing to accept a small amount of CT then you might go much higher.

[Ryan.]

I only know of this book what I have read in this thread and the Dell'Otto thread and my impression is that Jay is on a mission to create a narrative around this book that might be true but probably isn't.

[mysterio]

I only know of this book what I have read in this thread and the Dell'Otto thread and my impression is that Jay is on a mission to create a narrative around this book that might be true but probably isn't.

 

This discussion has popped up in a few threads that have since been poofed, much as this one likely will be. I've always found it telling that none of J's unnamed boardies cited for support have never come forth to bolster his case. It reminds me a bit of Kristy Swanson's part in Ferris Bueller.

[Foley]

Why is "J." in the middle of 95% of the fracases I see on here?

 

I think because he refuses to even consider the possibility that he is not 100% correct.

[budsbundy]

Jay is in need for more 'believers' in this book to support the pass around value of this hot potato. The fewer people that believe in it means that someone somewhere will be left holding the book asking for a price that the market would never support.

 

I do believe that there are more out there than is reported.

 

He can tell me that I am wrong all he wants. At the end of the day... I point the finger at him and believe that he is wrong.

 

Either way it is not only a book I shrug at, it's a book I openly mock for people shelling down $10,000 for. Seriously.

This ^

[Jaydogrules]

Jay is in need for more 'believers' in this book to support the pass around value of this hot potato. The fewer people that believe in it means that someone somewhere will be left holding the book asking for a price that the market would never support.

 

I do believe that there are more out there than is reported.

 

He can tell me that I am wrong all he wants. At the end of the day... I point the finger at him and believe that he is wrong.

 

Either way it is not only a book I shrug at, it's a book I openly mock for people shelling down $10,000 for. Seriously.

 

 

Delusional.

 

The facts are the facts, they don't require a "narrative", they are what they are: Nearly 6 years; Just 29 census copies; Just 7 public slab sales. Hot potato? Okay my man. Looks like the exact opposite to me here in reality. The only "narrative" offered is an explanation for why the book is as rare as it is. That it is, is pro forma fact. The notion that it somehow "isn't" rare is what requires the speculation and "belief". Don't stop believin' brother, that ebay flood will be here any minute now.

 

My interest in this book is obvious- I'm a fan of it, its unprecedented rarity, the artist and the title character. Kind of an obvious combo for desirability, but hey, these sorts of trends won't always be apparent if you're not necessarily looking for them.

 

The fact that you (allegedly) had a copy of this book that you irresponsibly sold as part of an ASM lot years ago without conducting even a modicum of due diligence or research in advance, tells me what your interest in the book is: seller's remorse and sour grapes.

 

-J.

[awakeintheashes]

Jay is in need for more 'believers' in this book to support the pass around value of this hot potato. The fewer people that believe in it means that someone somewhere will be left holding the book asking for a price that the market would never support.

 

I do believe that there are more out there than is reported.

 

He can tell me that I am wrong all he wants. At the end of the day... I point the finger at him and believe that he is wrong.

 

Either way it is not only a book I shrug at, it's a book I openly mock for people shelling down $10,000 for. Seriously.

+1 every few months it's a different book with the same approach.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

I have enjoyed this discussion. I learned a lot. Points and counterpoints have been pretty good, from a perspective of somebody learning the ins and outs of comic collecting.

 

A question: Is there a possibility that the publisher has actual records that can validate (or not) the facts, and does the publisher cooperate with disclosing such information in the interest of the hobby?

[budsbundy]

Jay is in need for more 'believers' in this book to support the pass around value of this hot potato. The fewer people that believe in it means that someone somewhere will be left holding the book asking for a price that the market would never support.

 

I do believe that there are more out there than is reported.

 

He can tell me that I am wrong all he wants. At the end of the day... I point the finger at him and believe that he is wrong.

 

Either way it is not only a book I shrug at, it's a book I openly mock for people shelling down $10,000 for. Seriously.

 

 

Delusional.

 

The facts are the facts, they don't require a "narrative", they are what they are: Nearly 6 years; Just 29 census copies; Just 7 public slab sales. Hot potato? Okay my man. Looks like the exact opposite to me here in reality. The only "narrative" offered is an explanation for why the book is as rare as it is. That it is, is pro forma fact. The notion that it somehow "isn't" rare is what requires the speculation and "belief". Don't stop believin' brother.

 

My interest in this book is obvious- I'm a fan of it, its unprecedented rarity, the artist and the title character. Kind of an obvious combo for desirability, but hey, these sorts of trends won't always be apparent if you're not necessarily looking for them.

 

The fact that you (allegedly) had a copy of this book that you irresponsibly sold as part of an ASM lot years ago without conducting even a modicum of due diligence or research in advance, tells me what your interest in the book is: seller's remorse and sour grapes.

 

-J.

Is that true Buzzetta? You let a copy of the 10K book go for pennies on the dollar?

[jaybuck43]

I have enjoyed this discussion. I learned a lot. Points and counterpoints have been pretty good, from a perspective of somebody learning the ins and outs of comic collecting.

 

A question: Is there a possibility that the publisher has actual records that can validate (or not) the facts, and does the publisher cooperate with disclosing such information in the interest of the hobby?

 

Yes Marvel knows the approximate print run (in some instances more issues may have been run but due to slight production issues are unsuitable for distribution and are not counted as part of the print run). They do not publicly release variant print runs.

[World Devourer]

The smoking gun is the rarity factor. The census supports this. ASM #667 simply does not appear. No others have appeared after the 9K sale, which did happen.

 

My question is why kick and scream about this? Does it matter what others spend their money on? If wishing to analyze such things, why not discuss something truly inane - such as the artificial bubble around Werewolf By Night #32, featuring a character yet to appear anywhere beyond the comic format.

 

Finally, I think some are being unfair to Jay. He may not have all the data, but he certainly hasn't been proven wrong.