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General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean
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Started by Transplant,

35,153 posts in this topic

VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted
It's in the Fogel guide with a NM- value of $25.

 

Also found this with a quick Google search (although it's a #1 and not a #2)

 

http://catalogue.swanngalleries.com/asp/fullCatalogue.asp?salelot=2377+++++338+&refno=++698919&saletype=

 

Thanks Roy, I was able to find #1 but not issue #2 anywhere.

 

There are also a few resident underground experts as well.

 

Comicwhiz is one of them (I can't remember the others). You might want to try sending them a PM or try the search function. Good luck.

 

 

EggsAckley

 

Exactly!

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divad

divad

Posted
Posted
It's in the Fogel guide with a NM- value of $25.

 

Also found this with a quick Google search (although it's a #1 and not a #2)

 

http://catalogue.swanngalleries.com/asp/fullCatalogue.asp?salelot=2377+++++338+&refno=++698919&saletype=

 

Thanks Roy, I was able to find #1 but not issue #2 anywhere.

 

There are also a few resident underground experts as well.

 

Comicwhiz is one of them (I can't remember the others). You might want to try sending them a PM or try the search function. Good luck.

 

 

EggsAckley

 

Exactly!

 

And the Reverend?

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VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted

 

So was that a second thread started this week?

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comix4fun

comix4fun

Posted
Posted
Looks like some posts here went poof as well!

 

 

 

Most likely when a mod takes the time to carpet bomb a thread out of existence they don't appreciate screen shots showing the exact same content. lol

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wombat

wombat

Posted
Posted
Looks like some posts here went poof as well!

 

 

 

Most likely when a mod takes the time to carpet bomb a thread out of existence they don't appreciate screen shots showing the exact same content. lol

 

Perhaps posting poofed posts perturbs people.

 

 

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted

(Oh, and saying someone is stealing IS calling them a thief, literally by definition - "a person who steals, especially secretly or without open force". To say otherwise is being disingenuous.)

 

No, to say otherwise is to understand that one can steal, but not do it purposely. If I pop a grape into my mouth at the store without thinking about it, and without paying for it, have I stolen? Yes, obviously, by any definition of that word. I took something that didn't belong to me, and didn't compensate the owner for it. Did I do it purposely? No, and it's intent, not action, that makes one a thief.

 

 

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
When is using PayPal personal 'generally' okay to buy stuff. I sincerely ask, because I do pay that way when I'm asked and don't when I'm not. Is that what you mean?

 

Dan

 

Well, I partially put "generally" because I dislike stating absolutes. But I would say things that are similar to the items that PayPal references - say there's a 2-for-1 sale and I go in with a friend to buy two, and I pay my friend half via PayPal. Or like in the charity threads mentioned, even if it wasn't "officially" sanctioned by calling first, if you were buying something to help someone out, particularly if you were friends with the person. That sort of thing.

 

But just a usual transaction between two people? Not so much.

 

You use a service, you should pay for that service.

 

This isn't rocket science, but it IS "absolute."

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
As mentioned before, there are people here who have lost that ability, and it makes it very hard to pay them back for Artist fees, or grading fees, or any of the other "pass through" fees that Personal was intended for. They complain about the fee, but if they hadn't been chowderheads to begin with, they wouldn't have lost the ability.

 

Please explain why these "pass through" outlays which are out-of-pocket business expenses associated with someone (your friend) doing business and getting paid for doing it......is considered by you to be the same as paying back someone for lunch and not subject to fees?

 

:popcorn:

 

Artist charges $10 per sig. I get 20 books signed. Artist charges $200. Facilitator pays that $200.

 

That $200 is paid back by me to the Facilitator via Paypal personal, and has nothing to do with the charge the Facilitator may charge me for their service. The facilitator didn't make any money on that aspect of the situation. They simply paid the artist on my behalf.

 

That's one of the things Paypal personal is for, specifically, as defined.

 

 

No it is not.

Personal Payments are specifically defined in Paypal's T&Cs

16. Definitions: "Personal Payment" means amounts sent between two individuals (not to or from a business) without a purchase. Examples of Personal Payments include sending a gift to a friend or paying a friend back for your share of a lunch bill.

 

 

It's not about WHO you're sending money to that is the issue with Paypal...it is WHY you're sending money. That's why they don't bother with what someone's "friend" may be, and is this person a merchant, and is that person not a merchant, and all sorts of needlessly complex scenarios.

 

Of course it is about Who you are sending money to. That is why they reference using it for "friends and family" and specifically exclude payments "to or from a business"

 

The only reason they cover the WHY is due to people stretching the definition of "friends".

You will note that all of the examples they use, such as "Gift, Living Expense (like rent or utilities), Reimbursing a friend for your share of a restaurant check, or Repaying money that a family member loaned you" are in no way business expenses.

 

 

When I do work on someone's books, and they ask me to send the books to CGC on their behalf under my account, I ask for TWO payments: one for the CGC charges, which is a PERSONAL payment...and the other for MY services, which is a GOOD/SERVICE payment, for which I pay the fee.

 

When you are sending payments to facilitators and when your customers are sending payments to you, these transactions are business transactions, to and from a business.

 

That is not correct.

 

I am "paying a friend back" for payment they fronted me (as noted in the definition.) Just like the friend who pays for my share of lunch. Is a business the ultimate recipient? Yes. It is NOT a "purchase", because I am not buying something from these facilitators.

 

I am not buying goods and/or services from these facilitators for that portion of the money that goes to other entities. That payment, if any, for their services is a separate transaction, for their services, and yes, must be paid for the regular way.

 

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
eh, so I was late to the party, however in reading 300+ posts in one sitting, it seemed like other than the one mention by bababooey, RMA got a pass on this, especially after ratcheting up the rhetoric with accusations of thievery

 

 

I think he "got a pass" because reimbursement of a forwarded expense is what paypal means when they discuss the use of the personal option. In fact one of the options under the classic site setup was "money owed".

 

It's outside of a retail purchase or a profit setting. It's a straight up reimbursement. That can me for rent, or lunch, or money I paid Perez so he'd sign some books. I'm outta pocked, now I'm not anymore.

 

Yup.

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
eh, so I was late to the party, however in reading 300+ posts in one sitting, it seemed like other than the one mention by bababooey, RMA got a pass on this, especially after ratcheting up the rhetoric with accusations of thievery

 

 

I think he "got a pass" because reimbursement of a forwarded expense is what paypal means when they discuss the use of the personal option. In fact one of the options under the classic site setup was "money owed".

 

It's outside of a retail purchase or a profit setting. It's a straight up reimbursement. That can me for rent, or lunch, or money I paid Perez so he'd sign some books. I'm outta pocked, now I'm not anymore.

 

It is a straight up reimbursement when it is to your friend for a non-commercial expense

 

This is still listed: Payment Owed - Use this payment type for things like reimbursing a friend for your share of a restaurant check, or repaying money that a family member loaned you.

 

RMA is using it for commercial purposes between businesses or between his business and customers in a manner which benefits his business. His use is not outside of a retail purchase or profit setting.

 

 

That is your definition...not Paypal's. I am not using it for "commercial purposes", because I'm not buying either goods or services.

 

I am reimbursing someone for expenses they incurred on my behalf.

 

That's precisely what Paypal's personal payment option is expressly for:

 

A gift: to send money as a gift, like for a birthday.

• Payment owed: to pay your friend back for your share of a dinner bill, or for another item that your friend bought for you.

• Cash advance: payment not involving the purchase of goods or services. Your credit card provider may charge fees for a cash advance.

• Living expense: to pay for things like rent or utilities.

• Other: other payments that aren't a purchase of goods or services.

 

Note the first definition: "Another item that your friend bought for you (which, in this case, is a signature.)"

 

Note the last one: "Other payments that aren't a purchase of goods or services."

 

Also: "Living expense." To pay for thinks like rent or utilities"...if you're paying utilities, you're paying a business. I'm not aware of any utilities that are owned by entities that aren't businesses. And yet, by Paypal's (not yours or mine) definition, that's allowed.

 

You can't add your own addendum of "non-commercial expense" to the definition....and besides, it's not a commercial expense in the first place. A commercial expense would be if I bought a good or service from a facilitator.

 

The issue isn't "how does one define a friend", because, as has been discussed at great length, that opens the door to every transaction being labeled "from a friend." That's not the issue, and never has been.

 

The issue is plainly: are you buying a good and/or service from someone? Are you purchasing something from someone? If yes, you pay for the service. If no, you can send it via Personal.

 

Pretty straightforward.

 

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