General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean 29 29

[BeachBum]

How do people feel about pre-sales - selling items you have no guarantee of getting or getting in grade? Apparently sales of these items have been allowed in the Signature Room and via PM sales threads for about a year now (SS, Blues, & raws) without any moderation or thread pulling.

In the past I've had sales threads pulled in the Marketplace when there was Mod confusion on what I was selling before a show was already mine or allocated to me. I've been given the green light to go ahead and do pre-sales as well since they are allowing Facilitators to do this but I'm not sure how to handle it.

[hutchsj]

I am fine with pre-sales IF AND ONLY IF there is a guarantee that the book is going to be available, and then I would need to know the person or have done business in the past.  Way too many people selling books hoping they will get them to turn over, and then they either do not get them or the books or not in condition stated.  Personally, if I have not paid for my order, then, I will not pre-sell.

[skypinkblu]

On 4/2/2017 at 9:40 PM, Meeklo said:

Has anyone heard from the blob? I bought some stuff from him a few weeks ago. The last message I got was on March 13th saying he was waiting until the snowstorm was over to mail the package out. He hasn't seen that PM since then.

The tracking I got shows a label was created and never mailed.

I hope he's OK, I had his name and address somewhere, but I can't find it. I know he lives in Brooklyn. I hope he didn't get hurt in the storm. He's been a good boarder for a long time, there is no reason to think he'd just flake out.

Do you have his email address from PP? The one you paid? Have you tried using it?

[skypinkblu]

On 4/14/2017 at 2:59 PM, shadroch said:

Is this the place to rant?

Several weeks ago, I put up an offer for some free magazines. They weren't comic related, but they were sports, which has a crossover market here.

No one objected or notified either the mods or myself about it. Earlier this week, someone evidently responded to the offer and only then did someone notify the mods. Bottom line is the thread was removed., so I don't know who it was that wanted them.

If that person PMs me, we'll handle the transaction in private.

I'd also ask that the person who notified the mods id themselves so I can be sure never to do business with them again. Are you really so anal as to stop a fellow board member from getting free stuff just because it doesn't meet the criteria for selling something?

That sounds odd, Bill. Where did  you post the thread?

[Meeklo]

Just now, skypinkblu said:

I hope he's OK, I had his name and address somewhere, but I can't find it. I know he lives in Brooklyn. I hope he didn't get hurt in the storm. He's been a good boarder for a long time, there is no reason to think he'd just flake out.

Do you have his email address from PP? The one you paid? Have you tried using it?

I do, I was just hoping someone may know him more personally...I'll try emailing him that way.

[skypinkblu]

1 minute ago, Meeklo said:

I do, I was just hoping someone may know him more personally...I'll try emailing him that way.

I've never met him in person, I just know he lives in Brooklyn and has a young son.  That snowstorm had a lot of ice in the City, it's very coincidental that you didn't hear from him after the storm. 

Please post if you do hear from him. 

[shadroch]

32 minutes ago, skypinkblu said:

That sounds odd, Bill. Where did  you post the thread?

Believe it was posted in modern. Posted it about three weeks ago. Three days ago, evidently someone responded , and someone notified the mods.

The thread was erased and I was told I was suspended for three days. Arch emailed me the next day that the suspension was an error and rescinded it.

[BeachBum]

4 hours ago, hutchsj said:

I am fine with pre-sales IF AND ONLY IF there is a guarantee that the book is going to be available, and then I would need to know the person or have done business in the past.  Way too many people selling books hoping they will get them to turn over, and then they either do not get them or the books or not in condition stated.  Personally, if I have not paid for my order, then, I will not pre-sell.

No, there is no guarantee the book will be available. People are hoping they are able to get the books and in the grade they are advertising for sale by loading the exclusive lines (like Graffiti) with their employees.

There was an issue in late December where someone who pre-sold CGC 9.8 from SDCC & Fan Expo Toronto then sent out less than that (9.4s & 9.6s) without informing the customers. For a moment it looked like CGC was going to ban pre-sales before books were in-hand (like I presently do) but it looks like enough Facilitators complained and now CGC has changed direction and is now going to allow the pre-sales to continue. I've gone on record with CGC that I disagree with the decision, as have others, and I've also informed them that I disagree with the massive PM sales threads that are being conducted in the background out of the Marketplace and out of the community's view... where the problems all came from.

Money is being taken in before books are bought and in hand as well. I'm conflicted on what to do here since people are paying for things from others before the shows that they end up then not getting and contacting me later looking for the same items in grade.

 

Edited April 16, 2017 by BeachBum

[telerites]

13 hours ago, BeachBum said:

No, there is no guarantee the book will be available. People are hoping they are able to get the books and in the grade they are advertising for sale by loading the exclusive lines (like Graffiti) with their employees.

There was an issue in late December where someone who pre-sold CGC 9.8 from SDCC & Fan Expo Toronto then sent out less than that (9.4s & 9.6s) without informing the customers. For a moment it looked like CGC was going to ban pre-sales before books were in-hand (like I presently do) but it looks like enough Facilitators complained and now CGC has changed direction and is now going to allow the pre-sales to continue. I've gone on record with CGC that I disagree with the decision, as have others, and I've also informed them that I disagree with the massive PM sales threads that are being conducted in the background out of the Marketplace and out of the community's view... where the problems all came from.

Money is being taken in before books are bought and in hand as well. I'm conflicted on what to do here since people are paying for things from others before the shows that they end up then not getting and contacting me later looking for the same items in grade.

 

That is nutso.  I'd be pissed if I pre-ordered a guaranteed 9.8, paid up front and received less.  Do you know if there was a partial refund for the lower graded books, Dre?

I totally agree with your position, not that I have ever nor am interested in pre-orders but some folks do.

[BeachBum]

52 minutes ago, telerites said:

That is nutso.  I'd be pissed if I pre-ordered a guaranteed 9.8, paid up front and received less.  Do you know if there was a partial refund for the lower graded books, Dre?

I totally agree with your position, not that I have ever nor am interested in pre-orders but some folks do.

The original thread from Comics General in which a customer complained is below. The OP was painted as disgruntled by some Boardies at first but more buyers came in and complained of what happened to them. And then I have PMs by others who did not want to go public and risk missing out on "Cool books".

I still don't understand why this is being allowed outside the Marketplace. The pre-sales practice continues in Signature Series Forums and via PM - Blue labels and raws are also being sold so none of this qualifies as SS Facilitation or a SS OP. These Facilitators have figured they can get away with skirting Marketplace rules by doing it there & early thereby beating the dealers who play by the rules and wait until they have legitimate books and 9.8s in hand.

 

Edited April 16, 2017 by BeachBum

[crassus]

1 hour ago, BeachBum said:

The original thread from Comics General in which a customer complained is below. The OP was painted as disgruntled by some Boardies at first but more buyers came in and complained of what happened to them. And then I have PMs by others who did not want to go public and risk missing out on "Cool books".

I still don't understand why this is being allowed outside the Marketplace. The pre-sales practice continues in Signature Series Forums and via PM - Blue labels and raws are also being sold so none of this qualifies as SS Facilitation or a SS OP. These Facilitators have figured they can get away with skirting Marketplace rules by doing it there & early thereby beating the dealers who play by the rules and wait until they have legitimate books and 9.8s in hand.

 

I remember this. You had also asked questions (and were rightly critical) about the practice of pressing books up to make promised grades when they fell short. I recall nobody answered that question either. I think a lot of this has to do with what people are promised exactly, and what are the advertised risks versus the hidden risks. Do  these kind of presales take the form of "for $xx.xx we will try to get you y in grade z" or do they take the form of "for $xx.xx you will get y in grade z"? Is there any acknowledgment of the risk of not getting the books in grade, any full disclosure that the sellers do not have reserved copies?

Edited April 16, 2017 by crassus

[BeachBum]

1 hour ago, crassus said:

I remember this. You had also asked questions (and were rightly critical) about the practice of pressing books up to make promised grades when they fell short. I recall nobody answered that question either. I think a lot of this has to do with what people are promised exactly, and what are the advertised risks versus the hidden risks. Do  these kind of presales take the form of "for $xx.xx we will try to get you y in grade z" or do they take the form of "for $xx.xx you will get y in grade z"? Is there any acknowledgment of the risk of not getting the books in grade, any full disclosure that the sellers do not have reserved copies?

In most cases, especially the early threads from last summer no. Many weeks before a show books are being solicited raw, Blue 9.8, and 9.8 ss in the Signature Forums with exact quantities being sold with no mention of the fact that they are not guaranteed the books. I actually watched the seller load up the show Exclusive line with his employees/witnesses trying to cover the pre-sales in quantity and quality (fail).

And when it comes to the pressing - it just shows that proper raw 9.8s candidates are not being pulled at the time of actual purchase.

Edited April 16, 2017 by BeachBum

[X_Phile]

On ‎4‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 3:21 PM, BeachBum said:

How do people feel about pre-sales - selling items you have no guarantee of getting or getting in grade? Apparently sales of these items have been allowed in the Signature Room and via PM sales threads for about a year now (SS, Blues, & raws) without any moderation or thread pulling.

In the past I've had sales threads pulled in the Marketplace when there was Mod confusion on what I was selling before a show was already mine or allocated to me. I've been given the green light to go ahead and do pre-sales as well since they are allowing Facilitators to do this but I'm not sure how to handle it.

I would be hesitant on presales if there was no guarantee of getting what I paid for or ending up with a sub grade book. Even though the books will be new there is no guarantee that there wasn't printing issues or they weren't damaged in shipping to the convention. I have been following some of the discussion on the other threads around this topic and it seems some prepaid for a certain grade but received a lower grade in return. I would not be happy with this outcome for two reasons; first I paid for a certain grade and second I now have to go buy the book in the grade I want with no assurance I will get it and if a hot book certainly not at the same price. I prefer to deal with a person that I know and that has time and time again delivered on what was promised. Not sure that is possible without the book in hand.

[Meeklo]

So I sent an email to Jeb (the blob), hoping to hear back and make sure everything is okay. If anyone else knows him personally and can reach out to him, please do and let us know.

[revat]

8 hours ago, X_Phile said:

I would be hesitant on presales if there was no guarantee of getting what I paid for or ending up with a sub grade book. Even though the books will be new there is no guarantee that there wasn't printing issues or they weren't damaged in shipping to the convention. I have been following some of the discussion on the other threads around this topic and it seems some prepaid for a certain grade but received a lower grade in return. I would not be happy with this outcome for two reasons; first I paid for a certain grade and second I now have to go buy the book in the grade I want with no assurance I will get it and if a hot book certainly not at the same price. I prefer to deal with a person that I know and that has time and time again delivered on what was promised. Not sure that is possible without the book in hand.

I think most people who do the pre-sales are very qualified and generally respected.  I do think it is a bit unfair to be able to sell in the sig forum (though I have bought from there) and I do think they should have to be sold through sales threads (as opposed to pm threads or the sig forums), in a very similar way to what Beachbum does, who I think should be the 'model' for these types of sales, already having the books in hand and absolutely having enough stock in hand to guarantee grades.  And VERY clear terms should be established for recourse and returns and all other terms of payment up front and understood by all parties.

I don't really think there's a problem with the way it is done now for the people doing it, except that someone less trusted could come in and try to do something similar and then make a case that they're doing something similar to other people, leaving us with a somewhat hypocritical defense.  So to me its more about the precedent than the actual ongoing activities or playing field.  To the extent that we want all expectations for all sales on the boards to be clear and follow certain guidelines to protect both buyers and sellers against unintended consequences and bad (or dumb) actors and/or potential hypocrisies (which I myself am occasionally guilty of), I think it would be best to do more or less as beachbum does.  On the other hand, the current system works very well, although I'm not entirely sure why threads for 'pre-orders' of graded books or signed books couldn't just be placed in the 'dealer' sales section, with a link from the signature forum, thereby still having a presence  on boards, but not specifically in conflict with any written or unwritten board rules.

[Point Five]

On 4/15/2017 at 5:22 PM, skypinkblu said:

I hope he's OK, I had his name and address somewhere, but I can't find it. I know he lives in Brooklyn. I hope he didn't get hurt in the storm. He's been a good boarder for a long time, there is no reason to think he'd just flake out.

Do you have his email address from PP? The one you paid? Have you tried using it?

Not sure of the backstory, but hearing secondhand that Jeb/the blob is indeed OK. Hopefully he will reach out to those with outstanding orders.

 

[Bird]

21 hours ago, Point Five said:

Not sure of the backstory, but hearing secondhand that Jeb/the blob is indeed OK. Hopefully he will reach out to those with outstanding orders.

 

I don't need a story, just glad to hear he is fine.

I myself thought he was off pulling those issues from his boxes that he always says he has around there somewhere! 

[1Cool]

On ‎4‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 7:15 PM, Bird said:

I don't need a story, just glad to hear he is fine.

I myself thought he was off pulling those issues from his boxes that he always says he has around there somewhere! 

I think Blob just posted in a thread.  Are people still looking for him?

[DavidTheDavid]

What is with all the Hulk 1's lately? Seeing several on the boards recently.

[Meeklo]

On April 24, 2017 at 2:01 PM, 1Cool said:

I think Blob just posted in a thread.  Are people still looking for him?

He reached out to me...everything is fine.