BLACK ADAM starring Dwayne Johnson (TBD) 7 7

[skypinkblu]

I don't usually care if the film makes money...but in this case I actually would have liked a sequel...if they ditched Atom Smasher;) 

[topofthetotem]

I enjoyed it, it’s a good popcorn movie. 

[Bosco685]

On 12/14/2022 at 7:36 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Not unique to Black Adam: The villain was underdeveloped, but that's because they were going for 'subverted expectations', such as Ishmael being the descendant of the guy who created the crown, and him coming back from the dead as opposed to transforming while alive, instead of straight-on telling us who and how.

Not conveying the 6 demons of Sabbac, and etc, definitely hurt Black Adam IMO.

Okay. So I rewatched Black Adam this morning to support its HBO Max debute. Right from the start of the movie, the kid kicks off the story of Sabbac with his summary of the Kahndaq history.

As the story goes along and as we find out more about Teth-Adam and his son, we also find out more about Sabbac and King Ahk-Ton and the goals of his ancestors. Plus we have Shazam (2019) as the warm-up act that hinted to the level of destruction involving Black Adam, with the mystery finally explained what truly took place with the destruction of Kahndaq leading to the wizards having to fight him. And now it is clear the Council of Wizards other than Shazam were destroyed by Black Adam.

Others can disagree the movie story didn't connect the dots. That's fine. But it actually did without forcing one scene clarifying everything for the audience. It slowly rolled out the story throughout.

And yes. I still enjoyed Black Adam. Just now I could reflect on these elements with a second viewing.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 12/16/2022 at 7:12 AM, Bosco685 said:

Okay. So I rewatched Black Adam this morning to support its HBO Max debute. Right from the start of the movie, the kid kicks off the story of Sabbac with his summary of the Kahndaq history.

As the story goes along and as we find out more about Teth-Adam and his son, we also find out more about Sabbac and King Ahk-Ton and the goals of his ancestors. Plus we have Shazam (2019) as the warm-up act that hinted to the level of destruction involving Black Adam, with the mystery finally explained what truly took place with the destruction of Kahndaq leading to the wizards having to fight him. And now it is clear the Council of Wizards other than Shazam were destroyed by Black Adam.

Others can disagree the movie story didn't connect the dots. That's fine. But it actually did without forcing one scene clarifying everything for the audience. It slowly rolled out the story throughout.

And yes. I still enjoyed Black Adam. Just now I could reflect on these elements with a second viewing.

Sabbac was still under-developed. He's not the same as Shazam or Black Adam, so some conveyance of who he gets his powers from and what those powers are is something that would have deftly improved the movie.

[Bosco685]

On 12/16/2022 at 9:19 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Sabbac was still under-developed. He's not the same as Shazam or Black Adam, so some conveyance of who he gets his powers from and what those powers are is something that would have deftly improved the movie.

I read what you said, and appreciate the opinion. We just disagree on the topic. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 12/16/2022 at 9:21 AM, Bosco685 said:

I read what you said, and appreciate the opinion. We just disagree on the topic. 

Then where did you think Black Adam needed to improve? Because it's definitely not perfect.

[Bosco685]

On 12/16/2022 at 9:27 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Then where did you think Black Adam needed to improve? Because it's definitely not perfect.

Think about that concept you just posted: a movie being perfect. There isn't even a good starting point with that statement, as nothing is perfect.

Now where it could have improved substantially is WB Studios Marketing connecting the dots how this was part of a road ahead. Including how this anti-hero could be a savior and a threat. It didn't. It put the weight on Dwayne Johnson's star power. And even when it rolled out a teaser to plug it, WB inserted the 2017 JL and Dwayne Johnson had to demand they take it down and retool it. If at least they had framed up where this film fits into a grander picture (whether directly or as a standalone production), general audiences could have related more.

Then there is the change in direction where it came out it was filmed as an R-Rated story to convey how brutal Black Adam is. And for some reason ($$$$ PG-13 MCU films), it was determined late to change and edit to smooth down the violence. Add to this Seven Bucks clearly wanted Henry Cavill included, and only the month before the film's October release the new WB co-CEOs approved this request, overriding Walter Hamada.

With all that, this movie is a fun action story. I've seen it more than once now, and still enjoyed it. And I was looking forward to see the Henry Cavill-Zachery Levi team-up to take on Black Adam. It would have been a great way to build out this mini franchise in the larger DC Studios universe.

Edited December 16, 2022 by Bosco685

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 12/16/2022 at 10:36 AM, Bosco685 said:

Think about that concept you just posted: a movie being perfect. There isn't even a good starting point with that statement, as nothing is perfect.

Now where it could have improved substantially is WB Studios Marketing connecting the dots how this was part of a road ahead. Including how this anti-hero could be a savior and a threat. It didn't. It put the weight on Dwayne Johnson's star power. And even when it rolled out a teaser to plug it, WB inserted the 2017 JL and Dwayne Johnson had to demand they take it down and retool it. If at least they had framed up where this film fits into a grander picture (whether directly or as a standalone production), general audiences could have related more.

Then there is the change in direction where it came out it was filmed as an R-Rated story to convey how brutal Black Adam is. And for some reason ($$$$ PG-13 MCU films), it was determined late to change and edit to smooth down the violence. Add to this Seven Bucks clearly wanted Henry Cavill included, and only the month before the film's October release the new WB co-CEOs approved this request, overriding Walter Hamada.

With all that, this movie is a fun action story. I've seen it more than once now, and still enjoyed it. And I was looking forward to see the Henry Cavill-Zachery Levi team-up to take on Black Adam. It would have been a great way to build out this mini franchise in the larger DC Studios universe.

Well, yes, my statement was obvious. I posed it that way because I was hoping for a specific answer about the final product.

[Bosco685]

On 12/16/2022 at 11:05 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Well, yes, my statement was obvious. I posed it that way because I was hoping for a specific answer about the final product.

I'm sure you did. 

[Cat]

On 12/16/2022 at 2:06 PM, skypinkblu said:

I don't usually care if the film makes money...but in this case I actually would have liked a sequel...if they ditched Atom Smasher;) 

A lot of people seemed to dislike Al. What made him so unlikeable? 

[skypinkblu]

On 12/16/2022 at 4:38 PM, Cat said:

A lot of people seemed to dislike Al. What made him so unlikeable? 

Do they use the word "klutz" in Australia?  That's why, lol...Black Adam was a very serious Super Hero, so was Dr. Fate.

I might go watch it on TV now and figure out why he was annoying, but I think it was the "klutz" factor;) 

[Bosco685]

On 12/16/2022 at 4:38 PM, Cat said:

A lot of people seemed to dislike Al. What made him so unlikeable? 

 

On 12/16/2022 at 5:01 PM, skypinkblu said:

Do they use the word "klutz" in Australia?  That's why, lol...Black Adam was a very serious Super Hero, so was Dr. Fate.

I might go watch it on TV now and figure out why he was annoying, but I think it was the "klutz" factor;) 

He is more the younger member comedy spots in a few scenes. To include when he runs the wrong way during the big JSA-Black Adam fight and then smacking Hawkman out of the sky by accident during the battle. Even when he has some back-and-forth with Black Adam that turned into he was being teased.

It didn't bother me. But it was clear he was the focus for the kid being mentored and required maturing later on.

[skypinkblu]

On 12/16/2022 at 5:18 PM, Bosco685 said:

 

He is more the younger member comedy spots in a few scenes. To include when he runs the wrong way during the big JSA-Black Adam fight and then smacking Hawkman out of the sky by accident during the battle. Even when he has some back-and-forth with Black Adam that turned into he was being teased.

It didn't bother me. But it was clear he was the focus for the kid being mentored and required maturing later on.

Well, yes...I agree to all, but I found him annoying, the "kid" was enough kid stuff for me...he was pretty good;)

[Bosco685]

On 12/16/2022 at 5:27 PM, skypinkblu said:

Well, yes...I agree to all, but I found him annoying, the "kid" was enough kid stuff for me...he was pretty good;)

I understand. There are more than a few folks that complained about his role.

[Cat]

On 12/17/2022 at 8:01 AM, skypinkblu said:

Do they use the word "klutz" in Australia?  That's why, lol...Black Adam was a very serious Super Hero, so was Dr. Fate.

I might go watch it on TV now and figure out why he was annoying, but I think it was the "klutz" factor;) 

Yep, I get what you mean. I'll admit, I'm predisposed to liking the character, as I'm a big JSA fan, and he's a great character in the comics, plus there's so much comic history he has with Black Adam that they can/could have mine/d. He was a massive klutz in the film though, you're right. 

[1Cool]

I finally got around to watching it last night since it was on HBO+ and I was not impressed.  Some pretty cool effects of him just tearing through people but the plot felt like a decent video game rather then a blockbuster flick.  The jokes all fell flat and I felt no connection to any of the characters.  I stayed up all the way to the end so I’ll give it a C+ since it was at least engaging.  No need for a second one.

[Zonker]

I also watched it last night on HBO Max.  After all the negativity around this one, I found it wasn't as bad as I feared.  But I certainly see why the mainstream critics thought it was so derivative of better, earlier films from Marvel.  It no doubt would have played better in the mid-2010s.  Consider all the elements that audiences by 2022 have seen on the big screen before:

- the Atom Smasher visual effect versus the Scott Lang Giant Man iteration from Captain America Civil War.
- Amanda Waller is the DCEU answer to Samuel Jackson's Nick Fury
- Atom Smasher as newbie super-hero versus Tom Holland's early Spider-Man
- the undersea Task Force X metahuman prison system seems lifted directly from Civil War
- Doctor Fate's precognition reminds one even more of Doctor Strange + the time stone from Infinity War 
- and while I don't have a problem with the casting of Hawkman, this casting does invite comparisons to Anthony Mackie's Falcon.

Buried in this screenplay is some potentially interesting business around the idea of "yeah, he may be a bad guy, but he's our bad guy."  With a better writing team, I could see that "conversation" promised between the two characters in the mid-credits scene as being one worth watching.  On the one hand, I'm sorry that's a moot point now, but on the other hand I'm not sure the Rock & company would have been able to resist the urge to turn it into just another non-stop slug-fest.

Edited December 17, 2022 by Zonker
typo

[alexgross.com]

On 12/17/2022 at 8:49 AM, Zonker said:

I also watched it last night on HBO Max.  After all the negativity around this one, I found it wasn't as bad as I feared.  But I certainly see why the mainstream critics thought it was so derivative of better, earlier films from Marvel.  It no doubt would have played better in the mid-2010s.  Consider all the elements that audiences by 2022 have seen on the big screen before:

- the Atom Smasher visual effect versus the Scott Lang Giant Man iteration from Captain America Civil War.
- Amanda Waller is the DCEU answer to Samuel Jackson's Nick Fury
- Atom Smasher as newbie super-hero versus Tom Holland's early Spider-Man
- the undersea Task Force X metahuman prison system seems lifted directly from Civil War
- Doctor Fate's precognition reminds one even more of Doctor Strange + the time stone from Infinity War 
- and while I don't have a problem with the casting of Hawkman, this casting does invite comparisons to Anthony Mackie's Falcon.

Buried in this screenplay is some potentially interesting business around the idea of "yeah, he may be a bad guy, but he's our bad guy."  With a better writing team, I could see that "conversation" promised between the two characters in the mid-credits scene as being one worth watching.  On the one hand, I'm sorry that's a moot point now, but on the other hand I'm not sure the Rock & company would have been able to resist the urge to turn it into just another non-stop slug-fest.

well said. i was shocked at how nearly identical the scenes of dr fate multiplying himself were to dr strange doing that years ago, i believe in his first film. i found the dynamic of the streetwise kid teaching the naive powerful hero how to say one liners straight out of terminator 2. in fact, i found this whole movie derivative, overlong, and boring as heck. if i have to watch another superhero movie where roided up guys shoot lightning bolts out of their fingers/arms/bodies, i will be done with the whole genre. it's just boring now. infinity war was the pinnacle guys. stop copying that and come up with something more interesting for g*ds sake! 

there's a massive sameness problem happening in comic book movies these days. both dc and marvel are guilty. the last thor was about equally lame, though at least not ripping off dc endlessly.

i hope someone can make something interesting again, at about 90 minutes too. i am really burned out on them. 

and hawkmans helmet looks st*pid, lets be real. 

[Bosco685]

On 12/17/2022 at 11:49 AM, Zonker said:

I also watched it last night on HBO Max.  After all the negativity around this one, I found it wasn't as bad as I feared.  But I certainly see why the mainstream critics thought it was so derivative of better, earlier films from Marvel.  It no doubt would have played better in the mid-2010s.  Consider all the elements that audiences by 2022 have seen on the big screen before:

- the Atom Smasher visual effect versus the Scott Lang Giant Man iteration from Captain America Civil War.
- Amanda Waller is the DCEU answer to Samuel Jackson's Nick Fury
- Atom Smasher as newbie super-hero versus Tom Holland's early Spider-Man
- the undersea Task Force X metahuman prison system seems lifted directly from Civil War
- Doctor Fate's precognition reminds one even more of Doctor Strange + the time stone from Infinity War 
- and while I don't have a problem with the casting of Hawkman, this casting does invite comparisons to Anthony Mackie's Falcon.

Buried in this screenplay is some potentially interesting business around the idea of "yeah, he may be a bad guy, but he's our bad guy."  With a better writing team, I could see that "conversation" promised between the two characters in the mid-credits scene as being one worth watching.  On the one hand, I'm sorry that's a moot point now, but on the other hand I'm not sure the Rock & company would have been able to resist the urge to turn it into just another non-stop slug-fest.

 

On 12/17/2022 at 3:26 PM, alexgross.com said:

well said. i was shocked at how nearly identical the scenes of dr fate multiplying himself were to dr strange doing that years ago, i believe in his first film. i found the dynamic of the streetwise kid teaching the naive powerful hero how to say one liners straight out of terminator 2. in fact, i found this whole movie derivative, overlong, and boring as heck. if i have to watch another superhero movie where roided up guys shoot lightning bolts out of their fingers/arms/bodies, i will be done with the whole genre. it's just boring now. infinity war was the pinnacle guys. stop copying that and come up with something more interesting for g*ds sake! 

there's a massive sameness problem happening in comic book movies these days. both dc and marvel are guilty. the last thor was about equally lame, though at least not ripping off dc endlessly.

i hope someone can make something interesting again, at about 90 minutes too. i am really burned out on them. 

and hawkmans helmet looks st*pid, lets be real. 

I respect you both are just sharing your experiences and opinions. It's part of having a good chat on here.

But I do pick up on those that are less connected to the full DC productions (including animated shows and movies). Doctor Fate has even been portrayed like he was in Black Adam going back to 2011 in the Young Justice popular series, long before the 2016 Doctor Strange MCU movie.

So if someone is far more targeting Marvel films and shows, then you won't be aware what we saw in Doctor Strange (2016) and even now in Black Adam has been done repeatedly through Doctor Fate's many appearances. And would also assume "DC is copying Marvel".

Even if we went back to Smallville Season 9 with the JSA two-part series (2010), we had the same type of Doctor Fate portrayal. One of the episodes, 'Absolute Justice', went hard on Doctor Fate's powers.

Again, being a Marvel-heavy forum people are not as aware of these things to connect the dots. So the assumption (like in 2017 that Wonder Woman was copying Captain America) is DC is copying Marvel. Kind of like the Multiverse concept, which was introduced in DC shows and animated movies such as Justice League: The Flashpoint Paradox (2013).

And that's just one character. If we allow it, "black guy flying - must be Sam" could be another trap we fall into based on forced comparisons.

[Zonker]

Yeah, I'm just saying for the average moviegoer (and film reviewer), it likewise makes no difference that Doctor Fate was introduced in the comics two decades plus prior to Doctor Strange.  It's what they are seeing on the screen in front of them, compared to what they remember seeing in other genre movies in the recent past.

I forgot to mention Eternium <=> Vibranium in the earlier list 

And it's not just what they are seeing, but what they are hearing as well.  The use of Players' "Baby Come Back" would have been a lot more amusing if that schtick hadn't already been done by James Gunn in the Guardians of the Galaxy movies.