Jaydogrules Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Just now, Logan510 said: I was just using that as an example. I don't have anything invested so I have no other reason to say you're wrong except that your speculation is incorrect. Feel free to post something, anything that you believe supports your opinion (as I have), and I will be happen to respond. Otherwise, continued unsupported blanket statements will earn you an honorary spot on the bingo card. -J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeypost Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 What if they only need to grade 2,000 books a month to be in the black? While they would have limited resources to invest back into the company (adding magazines, etc.), they would still be able to stay in business as their percentage of market share grew. What I can see is less and less of my customers requesting books be sent to Voldy as opposed to CGC. That is the only metric I can go on. bc, Cat, szucchini and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan510 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 1 minute ago, Jaydogrules said: Feel free to post something, anything that you believe supports your opinion (as I have), and I will be happen to respond. Otherwise, continued unsupported blanket statements will earn you an honorary spot on the bingo card. -J. It's nothing personal, but the scenario you lay out did not happen. I'm not speculating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Just now, Logan510 said: It's nothing personal, but the scenario you lay out did not happen. I'm not speculating. Ah okay. You know secrets that you can't tell (that also happen to contradict what is in the public domain). Well that's good enough for me. -J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comicdonna Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Don't you ever give up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan510 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said: Ah okay. You know secrets that you can't tell (that also happen to contradict what is in the public domain). Well that's good enough for me. -J. I don't care if you believe it or not. Feel free to keep spouting misinformation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Just now, Logan510 said: I don't care if you believe it or not. Feel free to keep spouting misinformation "Misinformation" according to your secrets ? Sheesh. Yes the complete and total collapse of Voldy into insolvency didn't actually happen. Got it. -J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazyboy Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 11 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said: anything that you believe supports your opinion (as I have) That's the problem with nearly every single one of your arguments on any subject; the "support" you find isn't relevant to whatever ridiculous agenda you're pushing. 11 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said: Yes the complete and total collapse of Voldy into insolvency didn't actually happen. Got it. Well, now that you understand, I guess everything's good. RockMyAmadeus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Just now, Lazyboy said: That's the problem with nearly every single one of your arguments on any subject; the "support" you find isn't relevant to whatever ridiculous agenda you're pushing. Well, now that you understand, I guess everything's good. Hmmm let's see, in building off the publicly filed complaint by Metro that was linked by the OP at the beginning of this thread, which specifically used legal terminology associated with bankrupt businesses like Voldy, (such as "asset sale" as opposed to a "sale of assets") I first linked this which explained what an "asset sale" is: https://www.inforuptcy.com/articles/363-bankruptcy-asset-sales-overview ...and then linked another article explaining that yes, business bankruptcies can be sealed from the public: https://business-finance-restructuring.weil.com/professionals/can-you-keep-a-secret-can-the-bankruptcy-court-bankruptcy-courts-must-adequately-demonstrate-the-basis-for-sealing-proceedings-from-the-public-media/ Can't be much more on point than that. I wish I could give you more than one slot on the bingo card for all your various shill accounts you post under but that wouldn't be fair to the others. Hope you enjoy owning your slabs from a bankrupt, insolvent company. :) -J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimik Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, shadroch said: By buying the assets only, and not the whole company, are employees assets? Are employment contracts transferred, if they existed. I am not sure, but I think they would ask for all employees to be terminated as part of the asset purchase. It is fairly standard. No need to get involved in severance payments and the headaches of terminating employees if you are the acquirer. Buying the assets means creditors are left fighting it out over the scraps left behind in the company, which is likely only loans/accounts payable/other debts at this point. Edited May 10, 2018 by kimik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybuck43 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, kimik said: I am not sure, but I think they would ask for all employees to be terminated as part of the asset purchase. It is fairly standard. No need to get involved in severance payments and the headaches of terminating employees if you are the acquirer. Buying the assets means creditors are left fighting it out over the scraps left behind in the company, which is likely only loans/accounts payable/other debts at this point. Well that, and the money received for the sale of assets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimik Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 1 minute ago, jaybuck43 said: Well that, and the money received for the sale of assets. True, but at that point it is usually just pennies on the dollar as the owners have cut a deal to "sell" the assets into a new company/new owner where the owner(s)/key persons mysteriously end up working at doing the same thing. It happens in the oil patch and construction industry all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poka Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, Jaydogrules said: I can't. Obviously. Especially if it has been sealed at least for now (it may very well become unsealed later as jaybuck so adroitly pointed out). Just follow the bread crumbs though. The company was already publicly struggling. Then out of the blue Beckett decides to step in and purchase outright a company that is struggling? Really? Sure. And Voldy still struggling now with Beckett taking things over. The substance of the lawsuit as I read it is that Beckett is trying to weasel out of a prior existing contract that was with Voldy. The lawsuit even hints at potential back room deals being made during the bankruptcy liquidation that they were kept out of the loop from. The lawsuit also refers to more than one bankruptcy buzzwords like "asset sale" and "insolvency". Sure you can sit back and hope, despite all publicly available evidence to the contrary that we do have that this was a normal business sale. When clearly, it was not. -J. All speculation based on insolvency law knowledge achieved through google. More interested when you have some concrete evidence, in the meantime - should we expect you to stand outside Steve’s door with red balloons saying sorry? Edited May 10, 2018 by Poka Spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybuck43 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 21 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said: Hmmm let's see, in building off the publicly filed complaint by Metro that was linked by the OP at the beginning of this thread, which specifically used legal terminology associated with bankrupt businesses like Voldy, (such as "asset sale" as opposed to a "sale of assets") I first linked this which explained what an "asset sale" is: https://www.inforuptcy.com/articles/363-bankruptcy-asset-sales-overview ...and then linked another article explaining that yes, business bankruptcies can be sealed from the public: https://business-finance-restructuring.weil.com/professionals/can-you-keep-a-secret-can-the-bankruptcy-court-bankruptcy-courts-must-adequately-demonstrate-the-basis-for-sealing-proceedings-from-the-public-media/ Can't be much more on point than that. I wish I could give you more than one slot on the bingo card for all your various shill accounts you post under but that wouldn't be fair to the others. Hope you enjoy owning your slabs from a bankrupt, insolvent company. :) -J. I'm not sure if you are purposefully being obtuse, or if you are doing this because you are a troll. The lawsuit states they sold the assets during the pendency of the arbitration. They do NOT use the term "Asset Sale". What they do, which EVERY lawyer does, is create a reference term of "Asset Sale" which is used to refer to the event of selling their assets. It's so that every time they want to mention that event, rather than writing out the entire thing, they just say Asset Sale. So once again, you are completely wrong, and you are defaming a well regarded member of this community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, jaybuck43 said: I'm not sure if you are purposefully being obtuse, or if you are doing this because you are a troll. The lawsuit states they sold the assets during the pendency of the arbitration. They do NOT use the term "Asset Sale". What they do, which EVERY lawyer does, is create a reference term of "Asset Sale" which is used to refer to the event of selling their assets. It's so that every time they want to mention that event, rather than writing out the entire thing, they just say Asset Sale. So once again, you are completely wrong, and you are defaming a well regarded member of this community. "Completely wrong" based on your interpretation? Got it. I disagree. The insolvency of the company is also referenced in the complaint. You forgot to mention that part. Bankrupt. -J. Edited May 10, 2018 by Jaydogrules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybuck43 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Just now, Jaydogrules said: "Completely wrong" based on your interpretation? Got it. I disagree. The insolvency of the company is also referenced in the complaint. You forgot to mention that part. -J. "Upon information and belief, the Asset Sale has rendered CBCS insolvent". Usually, when you sell all the assets, you have no assets left. That's the entire point of this case, that CBCS is trying to avoid paying damages in the arbitration by selling all the assets of the company to Beckett. Notice they don't say the company WAS insolvent, they're saying that the Asset Sale MADE the company insolvent. So again, you're completely wrong. And yea, my interpretation, which is only based off of 8 years of legal practice. No idea why I MIGHT know a bit more about this than you and Google. Foley, Larryw7 and Cat 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, jaybuck43 said: "Upon information and belief, the Asset Sale has rendered CBCS insolvent". Usually, when you sell all the assets, you have no assets left. That's the entire point of this case, that CBCS is trying to avoid paying damages in the arbitration by selling all the assets of the company to Beckett. Notice they don't say the company WAS insolvent, they're saying that the Asset Sale MADE the company insolvent. So again, you're completely wrong. And yea, my interpretation, which is only based off of 8 years of legal practice. No idea why I MIGHT know a bit more about this than you and Google. Yes if there was an "asset sale" through a bankruptcy, the company would certainly be completely insolvent. Do you agree that insolvency is almost always a precursor to bankruptcy? Do you agree that Beckett is unlikely to have paid top dollar for a company that was insolvent? Do you agree that, even if under the most favourable outcome Voldy was teetering on bankruptcy if it was not in fact bankrupt? Do you agree that Voldy/Beckett not being able to honour even a $15k contract is not indicative of a successful company? Would you continue to buy the slabs from a company under either scenario? -J. Edited May 11, 2018 by Jaydogrules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybuck43 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said: Do you agree that insolvency is almost always a precursor to bankruptcy? Do you agree that Beckett is unlikely to have paid top dollar for a company that was insolvent? Do you agree that, even if under the most favourable outcome Voldy was teetering on bankruptcy if it was not in fact bankrupt? Do you agree that Voldy/Beckett not being able to honour even a $15k contract is not indicative of a successful company? Would you continue to buy the slabs from a company under either scenario? -J. Which of the three qualifiers of insolvency under the UCC was CBCS operating under and how do you know they were? Edited to add: You seem to be under a mistaken belief that the contract between CBCS and Metro was for $15,000. It wasn't. It is in excess of $15,000, and the reason that number is stated is due to the fact that information is needed to be included in the complaint to establish jurisdiction of the case. For cases under $15,000, that is not the appropriate court. The contract could have been for $15,000,000 for all anyone knows. Edited May 11, 2018 by jaybuck43 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Just now, jaybuck43 said: Which of the three qualifiers of insolvency under the UCC was CBCS operating under and how do you know they were? I've already said I don't know that. Nor could I if the proceedings were sealed. And again, it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to follow the bread crumbs that I have already specified to the most likely conclusion. -J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Cool Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 1 hour ago, joeypost said: What if they only need to grade 2,000 books a month to be in the black? While they would have limited resources to invest back into the company (adding magazines, etc.), they would still be able to stay in business as their percentage of market share grew. What I can see is less and less of my customers requesting books be sent to Voldy as opposed to CGC. That is the only metric I can go on. Thanks for giving us some real world info about what you are seeing from a major submitters perspective. Have your customers voiced a doubt about the Beckett buy out being a reason for the switch? Hutch88 and Larryw7 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
