Disney+'s WandaVision (2020) 6 6

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

33 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

Some of these are fair points, even as I think the series got progressively better, especially with episodes 7-9, culminating with 9 being the best episode of the series.

That said, of your points, I most agree with and was annoyed by:

• How/why Hayward is a villain - they could have cleared this up (esp. his motivations re. killing Wanda and the twins) with 30 seconds' more dialogue.
• CGI Battle - specifically Vision v. Vision in the sky - it was so laughably bad it took me out of the moment.
• Where is Albino Vision - conversation already touched on this above, but my take is he went off somewhere else, but can be held in reserve for future MCU movies as a surprise reinforcement / Deus Ex Machina -- my read on the Ship of Theseus convo is yes - they are both equally "Vision," so the MCU now has two (good) Visions from which to draw (sort of Iron Man / War Machine-style or two Captain Marvel (Carol and Monica)-style)
• If "The Hex" is gone, isn't Agatha free? - This *really* annoyed me. Like 5 minutes after Wanda says "you'll live in here forever," Hex Westview ceases to exist. Huh? WTF?

If Wanda is going to create a field where an entire town is playing along with her reality, I imagine it can't be all that taxing on her abilities to create a much smaller field that affects one person; that's what I'm seeing happened here.

[apollobuzz]

8 minutes ago, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

If Wanda is going to create a field where an entire town is playing along with her reality, I imagine it can't be all that taxing on her abilities to create a much smaller field that affects one person; that's what I'm seeing happened here.

+1

[Zonker]

2 hours ago, Sauce Dog said:

...he was still logical like 'Vision' and would be open to discourse, and once he realized they were both equally entitled to the life and identity of Vision he could no longer kill the other and was easy enough to ignore SWORD programming (as it would likewise be akin to killing yourself on some level - so maybe something like the laws of robotics self preservation coding exists here. Do not allow harm to come to Vision = I am Vision = He is Vision = Don't hurt Vision!!!).

Well, the Socratic dialogue in the library begins with White Vision saying "My programming directive is to destroy the Vision."  And then ends with White Vision saying "I am the Vision," and flying straight off.  So the first impression I have is of the Westview Vision succeeding in turning the White Vision's programming on itself.  But assuming Bettany is still interested in playing the character, Marvel can certainly adopt your explanation (or my alternative, that White Vision is now stuck in an endless programming loop pondering the Ship of Theseus conundrum).  And I hope they do so! 

[TupennyConan]

10 minutes ago, Zonker said:

Well, the Socratic dialogue in the library begins with White Vision saying "My programming directive is to destroy the Vision."  And then ends with White Vision saying "I am the Vision," and flying straight off.  So the first impression I have is of the Westview Vision succeeding in turning the White Vision's programming on itself.  But assuming Bettany is still interested in playing the character, Marvel can certainly adopt your explanation (or my alternative, that White Vision is now stuck in an endless programming loop pondering the Ship of Theseus conundrum).  And I hope they do so! 

 

[Sauce Dog]

36 minutes ago, Zonker said:

Well, the Socratic dialogue in the library begins with White Vision saying "My programming directive is to destroy the Vision."  And then ends with White Vision saying "I am the Vision," and flying straight off.  So the first impression I have is of the Westview Vision succeeding in turning the White Vision's programming on itself.  But assuming Bettany is still interested in playing the character, Marvel can certainly adopt your explanation (or my alternative, that White Vision is now stuck in an endless programming loop pondering the Ship of Theseus conundrum).  And I hope they do so! 

Yeah the vagueness could have been handled better I think and if there was a sort of philosophical catch that White Vision was struggling with it should have been a little more explicit (or at least have Westview Vision make it clear that he meant to plant that doubt).

There is definitely a good chance such an error feedback loop could be explained - as in he is thinking "I was programmed to destroy Vision, but I am Vision, but if I destroy myself there will still be another Vision and I will have failed in that directive - thus I cannot kill myself before the job is done - but if I cannot kill myself, then I cannot kill the other Vision as we are BOTH equally Vision" etc...

Though I'm sure he will just be fine with it all because Westview vision isn't a thing anymore after the Hex ceased. White Vision is Vision and maybe all it took was him realizing "I am Vision, but this other Vision will cease to be once the Hex is dealt with - my intervention is not needed here as Wanda needs her Vision right now" or however they want to do it when they finally bring him back

Edited March 6, 2021 by Sauce Dog

[Bosco685]

4 hours ago, comicginger1789 said:

Hmm maybe. I mean I was surprised Agatha was the villain of choice here so maybe Chthon is gonna be at play. I just figured for a bigger broader audience there are a good handful of villains much more recognizable than him. 

Oh, I get where you are going on the assumption. Mephisto has been involved with so much (including the early Infinity Gaunlet story) you would assume he has to be somewhere in the MCU.

But then if you read through that Darkhold wiki, I'm surprised how many times Chthon and the Darkhold has come up in Marvel history and I missed it. So this could be the go-forward villain play.

[TupennyConan]

The 2 Visions logic games are great.

~~~

I just saw the 2nd end credits scene. Are we to understand from it that there are now 2 Wandas?  

[Bird]

1 minute ago, TupennyConan said:

The 2 Visions logic games are great.

~~~

I just saw the 2nd end credits scene. Are we to understand from it that there are now 2 Wandas?  

astral form more likely than not, although it is not very clear what they were going for

[comicginger1789]

19 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Oh, I get where you are going on the assumption. Mephisto has been involved with so much (including the early Infinity Gaunlet story) you would assume he has to be somewhere in the MCU.

But then if you read through that Darkhold wiki, I'm surprised how many times Chthon and the Darkhold has come up in Marvel history and I missed it. So this could be the go-forward villain play.

Yes same. However I’m trying to think like those in charge and I assume making money is important. I just don’t know if you appeal to the “I watch the movies and that’s it” audience with Chthon is all. But hey maybe they make him the next big household name.

[Bosco685]

1 minute ago, comicginger1789 said:

Yes same. However I’m trying to think like those in charge and I assume making money is important. I just don’t know if you appeal to the “I watch the movies and that’s it” audience with Chthon is all. But hey maybe they make him the next big household name.

Mephisto would make more money than an evil character developed over multiple productions that may not be mistaken as the devil by the general audience?

What is that based on? Other than fan excitement to see Mephisto?

[TupennyConan]

Zonker & Sauce Dog are my two new favorite Boardies because of their LSAT-type, analytic philosophy-esque, 2 Visions game.   

[comicginger1789]

8 minutes ago, Bird said:

astral form more likely than not, although it is not very clear what they were going for

I also assumed this was what was happening but I suppose it could have been an evil version of her researching the Darkhold.

However the fact that the astral version seems concerned when she hears her kids cries makes me think she stumbled on something in another realm where her kids may be alive and real.

[TupennyConan]

One item: does anyone predict Wanda becoming the new Phoenix-that-must-die? 

How will DOOM, with his magic & tech, treat her? That is, if we ever get a DOOM. 

What about Strange? He seems to've been knocked down the ladder. Where the heck was he in all this cruelty of WV by WM on WV?    

[bpc3qh]

I assumed it was the astral version, and that the kids were reaching her from another dimension.

[comicginger1789]

8 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Mephisto would make more money than an evil character developed over multiple productions that may not be mistaken as the devil by the general audience?

What is that based on? Other than fan excitement to see Mephisto?

I more so meant a character that more people and even casual fans might recognize that’s all. That theory is not based on anything I just thought it made sense. But I mean they technically made up an alien race for Avengers and it worked fine so maybe they do go with Chthon. 
 

To be honest, I hope it is Chthon. I have all his related Bronze Age books haha and maybe if it’s him SS3 will become affordable for me:) Or maybe it’s reached a value it was meant to have and like usual I am too late....

[TupennyConan]

1 minute ago, comicginger1789 said:

Chthon

No one can pronounce that. 

[Bosco685]

Just now, comicginger1789 said:

I more so meant a character that more people and even casual fans might recognize that’s all. That theory is not based on anything I just thought it made sense. But I mean they technically made up an alien race for Avengers and it worked fine so maybe they do go with Chthon. 
 

To be honest, I hope it is Chthon. I have all his related Bronze Age books haha and maybe if it’s him SS3 will become affordable for me:) Or maybe it’s reached a value it was meant to have and like usual I am too late....

Knowing the origins of the Darkhold (heck, before all this I gave it a very casual bit of attention but nothing like now), I think the two are so intertwined.

The hurdle Disney would have with Mephisto is the appearance assumed to be the devil. And seeing how Hulu had to treat Helstrom in the TV show due to concerns with devil references, I think it will be sensitive about that appearance.

[Bosco685]

2 minutes ago, TupennyConan said:

No one can pronounce that. 

Disney made an exception for you

[Bosco685]

Comic book Helstrom versus the Hulu/Disney version

One screams "RUN AWAY - he's evil!"

The  other whimpers "Could you put those chest hairs out - it's making me uncomfortable!"

[the blob]

2 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Comic book Helstrom versus the Hulu/Disney version

One screams "RUN AWAY - he's evil!"

The  other whimpers "Could you put those chest hairs out - it's making me uncomfortable!"

I think they miscast him, I agree, the show had so much potential, we'll see how he morphs, if at all, I am halfway through it. I like Satana though.