Disney+'s WandaVision (2020) 6 6

[@therealsilvermane]

8 hours ago, Beige said:

As feared, some people are plain confused about this show.

Its becoming mandatory to watch every single MCU vehicle to avoid getting hopelessly lost.

I read comic stuff, but even I'm having trouble following this thread.

No-body is going to get the Tiger / Dr Strange stuff etc unless they are total fanboys.

Most people aren't and these shows, no matter how good for avid comic readers, are struggling with mainstream viewers.

You shouldn't have to watch 9 season of SHIELD to get some of Wandavision, and you shouldn't be forced to watch Wandavision to get the most out of Phase 4 of the MCU.

There are too many shows / movies on too many platforms, and if this is not addressed, and shows / movies made less dependent on each other, then people will stop watching.

 

It's not that confusing.

The reason why there's endless speculation and guessing in this thread and on the internet over WandaVision is because fans are picking each episode apart frame by frame to try and guess the outcome of the show because it's fun. Hardcore Marvel Comics fans are going the extra distance and using their comics knowledge to try to guess the outcome. To actually just enjoy the show and follow the story, that's not necessary. The Tiger/Dr Strange stuff means absolutely nothing to the story that's going on episode by episode. You don't need to have watched all 9 seasons of SHIELD to get the most out of WandaVision. I haven't seen a single episode of SHIELD myself.

Now, does it help to know that Wanda and Vision are Avengers in the MCU to know what this show is about? Yes. Does it help to know that Vision died when Thanos ripped an Infinity Stone, his power source, from his head? Yes. Okay, so go watch Age of Ultron, Civil War, Infinity War, and Endgame and you'll have seen everything you need to see to fully know the backstory of WandaVision, including understanding the cryptic commercials. Okay, maybe Captain Marvel if you want to know who Monica Rambeau is and her connection to Carol Danvers, which isn't that important to the story.

You don't have to be a total fanboy or have seen every MCU movie to enjoy WandaVision.

Can one say the same thing about a later episode of Game of Thrones or Episode 9 of Star Wars? Do I really have to have seen every episode to understanding what's going on? I have seen two episodes of GOT, the one where the dragons get killed and part of the finale and I had no idea what was going on and didn't care.

Edited February 9, 2021 by @therealsilvermane

[TupennyConan]

8 hours ago, Old_Man_Adam said:

Interesting ... that would be wild if she becomes the Invisible Woman and they cast her comic backstory aside 

Yes, that would be wild; however, my observation was meant to suggest the FF would be SWORD agents, hence the similar blue uniform thingy.  

[TupennyConan]

6 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

I have seen two episodes of GOT...and didn't care.

Edited for clarity. 

[@therealsilvermane]

 

3 minutes ago, TupennyConan said:

10 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

I have seen two episodes of GOT...and didn't care.

Edited for clarity. 

The context that the two GOT episodes are late episodes is important because it underscores the fact that you probably  needed to have seen all 30 seasons of Game of Thrones to understand what was going on in those episodes and who was who. I had absolutely no idea, and because of that, I didn't care what was going on.

[fantastic_four]

Nobody has to get the unexplained references here any more than they did in the Matrix films.  Everything will be explained, the hints are just there for the curious to speculate about what will happen in the future.  The series will end with action, and if you re-watch anything here it'll be like the first Hulk movie and you'll just watch the last half and ignore the first.

[Bosco685]

2 hours ago, @therealsilvermane said:

It's not that confusing.

The reason why there's endless speculation and guessing in this thread and on the internet over WandaVision is because fans are picking each episode apart frame by frame to try and guess the outcome of the show because it's fun. Hardcore Marvel Comics fans are going the extra distance and using their comics knowledge to try to guess the outcome. To actually just enjoy the show and follow the story, that's not necessary. The Tiger/Dr Strange stuff means absolutely nothing to the story that's going on episode by episode. You don't need to have watched all 9 seasons of SHIELD to get the most out of WandaVision. I haven't seen a single episode of SHIELD myself.

Now, does it help to know that Wanda and Vision are Avengers in the MCU to know what this show is about? Yes. Does it help to know that Vision died when Thanos ripped an Infinity Stone, his power source, from his head? Yes. Okay, so go watch Age of Ultron, Civil War, Infinity War, and Endgame and you'll have seen everything you need to see to fully know the backstory of WandaVision, including understanding the cryptic commercials. Okay, maybe Captain Marvel if you want to know who Monica Rambeau is and her connection to Carol Danvers, which isn't that important to the story.

You don't have to be a total fanboy or have seen every MCU movie to enjoy WandaVision.

Can one say the same thing about a later episode of Game of Thrones or Episode 9 of Star Wars? Do I really have to have seen every episode to understanding what's going on? I have seen two episodes of GOT, the one where the dragons get killed and part of the finale and I had no idea what was going on and didn't care.

 

57 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

Nobody has to get the unexplained references here any more than they did in the Matrix films.  Everything will be explained, the hints are just there for the curious to speculate about what will happen in the future.  The series will end with action, and if you re-watch anything here it'll be like the first Hulk movie and you'll just watch the last half and ignore the first.

It's easy to say this when we are immersed in the details, and following along fairly comfortable though naturally also having to do some research to remind ourselves of certain characters and events.

But if you are trying to make these shows 6-9 hour movies so you have more time to tell the complete story, it would be nice if any of the general viewers can connect the dots for the most part.

[Muno42]

My wife has barely seen much of the MCU films but is a big fan of WandaVision. 

[Bosco685]

3 minutes ago, Muno42 said:

My wife has barely seen much of the MCU films but is a big fan of WandaVision. 

She's a keeper!

[fantastic_four]

It's harder to figure out what's going on jumping in at any random episode of General Hospital than into the start of Wandavision, but with either of them you can pretty much figure it out--drama drama drama drama.  Everything Beige was complaining about will be explicitly revealed, and I don't need my grandma to explain to me how Laura is cheating or Sonny just finished his business venture in South America to get drama from what I'm watching without knowing what preceded it.

[Bosco685]

1 minute ago, fantastic_four said:

It's harder to figure out what's going on jumping in at any random episode of General Hospital than into the start of Wandavision, but with either of them you can pretty much figure it out--drama drama drama drama.  Everything Beige was complaining about will be explicitly revealed, and I don't need my grandma to explain to me how Laura is cheating or Sonny just finished his business venture in South America to get drama from what I'm watching without knowing what preceded it.

Like you said - drama, drama, drama 

If Disney+ allows for a stronger value proposition to flesh out these individual stories more than any 2-3 hour movie can, it would be a missed opportunity to delve deeper into what made them the way they are. Acting as if this doesn't matter and everyone will just 'get it' is nice. But knowing you can take this entire season and ignore the first few episodes doesn't sound like a fantastically packaged story. If anything, that sounds like a missed opportunity to go deeper for the general audience.

And that's coming from someone that is very much enjoying the show. And no - I didn't have to pray to grandma to help fill in any gaps. 

[TupennyConan]

The show is confusing because it is meant to be. It is meant to confuse [& intrigue] all viewers, the general audience & folks like us. It's a mystery. Mysteries are popular.  

[@therealsilvermane]

2 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

But knowing you can take this entire season and ignore the first few episodes doesn't sound like a fantastically packaged story. If anything, that sounds like a missed opportunity to go deeper for the general audience.

You say that as if the first two episodes that mimicked Van Dyke and Betwitched don't matter and are throw away, but I think they matter very much and we're going to find out why they matter in this next half. It's the MCU, it's all connected.

[Bosco685]

1 minute ago, @therealsilvermane said:

You say that as if the first two episodes that mimicked Van Dyke and Betwitched don't matter and are throw away, but I think they matter very much and we're going to find out why they matter in this next half. It's the MCU, it's all connected.

You missed the part where just a few posts above someone noting you can just ignore the first few episodes and the entire show is a win in the end.

Step back from attempting to always be the defender of the MCU - even when no defense is needed.

[fantastic_four]

1 minute ago, @therealsilvermane said:

You say that as if the first two episodes that mimicked Van Dyke and Betwitched don't matter and are throw away, but I think they matter very much and we're going to find out why they matter in this next half. It's the MCU, it's all connected.

I really liked that first hour of Hulk, but only once or twice.  All I re-watch are the Hulk Smash scenes, just as I'm sure what I'll be re-watching (if anything) from this series is all of the Wanda/Vision/Strange/Mephisto action that's incoming.

[@therealsilvermane]

10 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

I really liked that first hour of Hulk, but only once or twice.  All I re-watch are the Hulk Smash scenes, just as I'm sure what I'll be re-watching (if anything) from this series is all of the Wanda/Vision/Strange/Mephisto action that's incoming.

For myself,  I enjoy the finer artistic points of film, like metaphor, symbolism, deeper themes, etc. Besides being a super-hero action adventure, Ang Lee's Hulk dealt with the theme of repression and also power through genetics/evolution and the atom.  If you go back and watch the first half of Hulk, you see these themes play out both visually and in the story. David Banner seeks freedom from the repression of the human shell for himself. Bruce Banner seeks freedom from the repression of the human shell for scientific and humanitarian purposes. This is their motivation. Ang Lee uses morph edits throughout the movie to visually represent evolving. The multi-frames, more than mimicking a comic book, represent different ways of looking at a thing. The plot progression of starting with a Hulk frog, to Hulk dogs, to a Hulk man, to finally a Hulk god (David Banner) also illustrates the idea of evolution. Throughout the film, Ang Lee uses the visual cuts of jellyfish to represent genetic power and a mushroom cloud to represent atomic power, which both power the Hulk. That a jellyfish and a mushroom cloud look the same isn't accidental, as this is what David Banner becomes at the end of the movie over the lake. This is the kind of stuff that brings me back to the entire movie of Ang Lee's Hulk, every now and then.

[@therealsilvermane]

I prefer the Growing Pains opener over Family Ties mostly because I prefer GP's theme song "As Long as We Got Each Other" (sung by legends BJ Thomas and Jennifer Warnes) over FT's  "Without Us" by Johnny Mathis.

 

[Bosco685]

Quote

Vision Will Soon Learn The Truth About His Death

For the most part, Wanda has been able to hide the truth from Vision through clever edits of reality, like when she turned back time after a SWORD agent infiltrated town via the sewer. She hasn't been able to stop Vision from picking up on every weird occurrence, however, and he took notice of moments like Herb distractedly cutting through his garden wall or the suddenness of Geraldine's departure.

 

Since then, Vision has only grown more suspicious, and in WandaVision episode 5, Vision uses his abilities to briefly unlock Norm's mind from Wanda's control, finally learning the ugly truth that Westview's residents are all trapped. He later confronts her about it and this leads to a big argument, but before Vision and Wanda can even begin to resolve their dispute, it's put on hold by the unexpected arrival of Wanda's twin brother, Pietro.

 

Vision isn't about to let his suspicions go, though, and in time he sure's to learn the truth about his life - and death - prior to arriving in Westview. Previews for upcoming episodes of WandaVision show Vision unlocking Agnes' mind in a similar manner to Norm's and her revealing to him he's dead. Other clips have teased Vision attempting to leave the Hex surrounding Westview, suggesting he's determined to learn the whole truth about what's happening. But what happens once he does?

 

How Vision Will React To Learning The Truth
Upon learning the truth about his death at the hands of Thanos and his resurrection within Westview, Vision is bound to feel betrayed. Not only does bringing him back to life go against his own wishes, but by doing so within such an elaborate fantasy, Wanda is holding an entire town hostage. Wanda's actions have also made her an enemy within the eyes of SWORD, undoing the goodwill she earned from her time working alongside the Avengers. This whole mess won't sit well with Vision, and it's made all the worse by knowing it's Wanda who is responsible.

 

Why Vision Is The Only One Who Can Make Wanda Accept The Truth
Vision will need to convince Wanda to stop on her own, and to do that, he'll need to convince her of the truth. In her grief, Wanda is unwilling to accept the fact that Vision is dead, seemingly rewriting reality to making him alive again. And her spell is so powerful that along with tricking Vision and all of Westview into believing that's true, she's tricked herself into believing it, too. But in bringing Vision back, however she did it, Wanda also brought in to Westview the one person capable of stopping her.

 

Though it's still unclear exactly how Wanda resurrected Vision, she's done so in a way where he's been able to retain his powers. This raises questions about whether or not she actually reformed the Mind Stone seeing as it's a part of Vision, but regardless if the Infinity Stone is back or not, Vision's powers are. In WandaVision episode 5, Vision uses his powers to free Norm's mind of Wanda's spell and he'll do the same to Agnes in a future episode. This suggests he may try to do just that to Wanda, freeing her mind of her own grief-stricken spell and forcing her to finally accept the truth.

 

[theCapraAegagrus]

1 hour ago, @therealsilvermane said:

For myself,  I enjoy the finer artistic points of film, like metaphor, symbolism, deeper themes, etc. Besides being a super-hero action adventure, Ang Lee's Hulk dealt with the theme of repression and also power through genetics/evolution and the atom.  If you go back and watch the first half of Hulk, you see these themes play out both visually and in the story. David Banner seeks freedom from the repression of the human shell for himself. Bruce Banner seeks freedom from the repression of the human shell for scientific and humanitarian purposes. This is their motivation. Ang Lee uses morph edits throughout the movie to visually represent evolving. The multi-frames, more than mimicking a comic book, represent different ways of looking at a thing. The plot progression of starting with a Hulk frog, to Hulk dogs, to a Hulk man, to finally a Hulk god (David Banner) also illustrates the idea of evolution. Throughout the film, Ang Lee uses the visual cuts of jellyfish to represent genetic power and a mushroom cloud to represent atomic power, which both power the Hulk. That a jellyfish and a mushroom cloud look the same isn't accidental, as this is what David Banner becomes at the end of the movie over the lake. This is the kind of stuff that brings me back to the entire movie of Ang Lee's Hulk, every now and then.

Do you often have a sore throat?

[@therealsilvermane]

3 minutes ago, Angel of Death said:

Do you often have a sore throat?

I haven’t had a sore throat since the pandemic started, thank God. And thanks for asking.

[Bosco685]

Alex Ross sure knows how to spice up a day.