Disney+'s WandaVision (2020) 6 6

[Buzzetta]

8 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

I had noted the same concern earlier.

I love a solid link here and there to honor a larger comic book universe. But when it gets overly pushed to honor an excessive series of source material then I get concerned.

But that's just me. The MCU has made the fans more fanatical they'll go see the same film 100 (+) times. I could see many doing something excessive like multiple subscriptions to keep all this going. 

Ha - I disagree... because I have no idea what any of you are talking about when you say to look at the Tiger references or Aunt Agatha or what any of those easter eggs represent or allude to.  I never followed the Avengers, nor Wanda or Vision until they were introduced into the MCU... All I ever thought was that Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver were Magneto's children and then after that it was a shrug and a, "Let's get back to Spider-man."

I have not felt I have missed anything since they have not been relevant to the plot of what is going on.  It also seems that I have had a similar experience as others have in that the show is 'so-so' until episode four when it really picks up as to what is going on.  

Now if the Tiger images were being referred to I would probable wonder if I was missing out on something, but that stuff went right over my head because I did not realize that they were things to focus on in the background to begin with. 

 

[Bosco685]

37 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

Ha - I disagree... because I have no idea what any of you are talking about when you say to look at the Tiger references or Aunt Agatha or what any of those easter eggs represent or allude to.  I never followed the Avengers, nor Wanda or Vision until they were introduced into the MCU... All I ever thought was that Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver were Magneto's children and then after that it was a shrug and a, "Let's get back to Spider-man."

I have not felt I have missed anything since they have not been relevant to the plot of what is going on.  It also seems that I have had a similar experience as others have in that the show is 'so-so' until episode four when it really picks up as to what is going on.  

Now if the Tiger images were being referred to I would probable wonder if I was missing out on something, but that stuff went right over my head because I did not realize that they were things to focus on in the background to begin with. 

 

Don't read into too much as if this is a deal-breaker. The show is very entertaining and engaging.

But with this medium as opposed to theaters you have a wonderful longer screen time to go wild with telling a story. Even in your own words reading it took four (4) episodes for you to feel like the show finally picked up in a nine-episode season isn't a good thing. At least with FX's Legion as another Marvel show where it took a while for the entire backstory to play out it was extremely engaging out of the gate. And that show was eight episodes in Season 1, 11 episodes in Season 2 and 8 episodes closing out Season 3. Yet throughout that mind-warping series it kept the full story hidden many times yet kept viewers very engaged. And still peppered in X-Men references in a way you didn't need deep immersion in the source material or character lore to enjoy the experience.

In the case of WandaVision with - hold on to your seat - Wanda and Vision, who had more than one appearance in the MCU they now have a breadth and depth to their cinema lore. And here we are in the show that is extensively focused on their journey reading some folks feeling the first few episodes were not really meaningful. Fun, sure. A walk down small screen gold and silver goodness lane - you bet. But not keeping everyone feeling satisfied.

Better to call it what it is than writing off those first few episodes and now recognizing we have FINALLY gotten to the good stuff. Again - 9 episodes. So we are 177 minutes (2.95 hours) and now for the most part everyone finally feels like the show is kicking in?

• Episode 1, Filmed Before A Live Studio Audience, 30 minutes
• Episode 2, Don't Touch That Dial, 37 minutes
• Episode 3, Now In Color, 33 minutes
• Episode 4, We Interrupt This Program, 35 Minutes
• Episode 5, On A Very Special Episode, 42 minutes 

[the blob]

16 hours ago, Beige said:

As feared, some people are plain confused about this show.

Its becoming mandatory to watch every single MCU vehicle to avoid getting hopelessly lost.

I read comic stuff, but even I'm having trouble following this thread.

No-body is going to get the Tiger / Dr Strange stuff etc unless they are total fanboys.

Most people aren't and these shows, no matter how good for avid comic readers, are struggling with mainstream viewers.

You shouldn't have to watch 9 season of SHIELD to get some of Wandavision, and you shouldn't be forced to watch Wandavision to get the most out of Phase 4 of the MCU.

There are too many shows / movies on too many platforms, and if this is not addressed, and shows / movies made less dependent on each other, then people will stop watching.

 

Actually, the movies and SHIELD are not all that relevant to the stuff we are fussing about. You don't need to know SWORD gets formed toward the end of SHIELD to understand some entity exists right now. If you watched the Avengers movies you have your core background, and it would be good to have seen some recent X-Men movies to not say "huh?" at the end of the last episode. Sure, seeing Thor, Ant Man, and Captain Marvel would helped know our 3 characters outside the hex a little, but not much. My 9 year old enjoys it and he is not all hung up on the minutia, has seen the Marvel movies, but doesn't have them memorized, never watched SHIELD.

[Beige]

7 hours ago, @therealsilvermane said:

It's not that confusing.

The reason why there's endless speculation and guessing in this thread and on the internet over WandaVision is because fans are picking each episode apart frame by frame to try and guess the outcome of the show because it's fun. Hardcore Marvel Comics fans are going the extra distance and using their comics knowledge to try to guess the outcome. To actually just enjoy the show and follow the story, that's not necessary. The Tiger/Dr Strange stuff means absolutely nothing to the story that's going on episode by episode. You don't need to have watched all 9 seasons of SHIELD to get the most out of WandaVision. I haven't seen a single episode of SHIELD myself.

Now, does it help to know that Wanda and Vision are Avengers in the MCU to know what this show is about? Yes. Does it help to know that Vision died when Thanos ripped an Infinity Stone, his power source, from his head? Yes. Okay, so go watch Age of Ultron, Civil War, Infinity War, and Endgame and you'll have seen everything you need to see to fully know the backstory of WandaVision, including understanding the cryptic commercials. Okay, maybe Captain Marvel if you want to know who Monica Rambeau is and her connection to Carol Danvers, which isn't that important to the story.

You don't have to be a total fanboy or have seen every MCU movie to enjoy WandaVision.

Can one say the same thing about a later episode of Game of Thrones or Episode 9 of Star Wars? Do I really have to have seen every episode to understanding what's going on? I have seen two episodes of GOT, the one where the dragons get killed and part of the finale and I had no idea what was going on and didn't care.

That's kinda my point. 

I'm not saying you can't enjoy Wandavision - but as you have just pointed out - you'd need to watch FIVE 2hr+ movies to  get the most out of it.

 

I'm not sure that's a sustainable model.

Edited February 9, 2021 by Beige

[the blob]

23 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Don't read into too much as if this is a deal-breaker. The show is very entertaining and engaging.

But with this medium as opposed to theaters you have a wonderful longer screen time to go wild with telling a story. Even in your own words reading it took four (4) episodes for you to feel like the show finally picked up in a nine-episode season isn't a good thing. At least with FX's Legion as another Marvel show where it took a while for the entire backstory to play out it was extremely engaging out of the gate. And that show was eight episodes in Season 1, 11 episodes in Season 2 and 8 episodes closing out Season 3. Yet throughout that mind-warping series it kept the full story hidden many times yet kept viewers very engaged. And still peppered in X-Men references in a way you didn't need deep immersion in the source material or character lore to enjoy the experience.

In the case of WandaVision with - hold on to your seat - Wanda and Vision, who had more than one appearance in the MCU they now have a breadth and depth to their cinema lore. And here we are in the show that is extensively focused on their journey reading some folks feeling the first few episodes were not really meaningful. Fun, sure. A walk down small screen gold and silver goodness lane - you bet. But not keeping everyone feeling satisfied.

Better to call it what it is than writing off those first few episodes and now recognizing we have FINALLY gotten to the good stuff. Again - 9 episodes. So we are 177 minutes (2.95 hours) and now for the most part everyone finally feels like the show is kicking in?

• Episode 1, Filmed Before A Live Studio Audience, 30 minutes
• Episode 2, Don't Touch That Dial, 37 minutes
• Episode 3, Now In Color, 33 minutes
• Episode 4, We Interrupt This Program, 35 Minutes
• Episode 5, On A Very Special Episode, 42 minutes 

subtract 10 minutes of credits for each episode and we are down to 2 hours

 

[Bosco685]

2 minutes ago, the blob said:

subtract 10 minutes of credits for each episode and we are down to 2 hours

 

In every language that can be squeezed onto the screen to cover all the Disney bases of 'It's a small world after all'.

[the blob]

7 minutes ago, Beige said:

That's kinda my point. 

I'm not saying you can't enjoy Wandavision - but as you have just pointed out - you'd need to watch FIVE 2hr+ movies to  get the most out of it.

 

I'm not sure that's a sustainable model.

not really. you should watch the last 3 avengers movies. as all of those movies are on disney+, the only venue you can watch wandavision and something you're paying for anyway, this is really not such a stretch. i didn't watch avengers 1 until about a month ago. not needed for this story, but you should see how wanda and vision arrive on the scene.

[@therealsilvermane]

1 hour ago, Beige said:

That's kinda my point. 

I'm not saying you can't enjoy Wandavision - but as you have just pointed out - you'd need to watch FIVE 2hr+ movies to  get the most out of it.

 

I'm not sure that's a sustainable model.

Marvel's interconnected cinematic universe is in fact a big reason the Studio is so successful. Several other studios, including Warner Brothers and Universal have tried to copy it and failed. For Disney/Marvel to abandon that successful interconnected model would be kind of a dumb business move and be the opposite of sustainable. The popularity of WandaVision right now is itself proof of the sustainability of Marvel Studios' storytelling model.

But I get what you're saying. It's the complaint of many who have yet to sign on to the MCU as a fan. They prefer the traditional movie model where you don't have to have seen other movies or TV shows and be familiar with several character to get it. However, this isn't the case for every MCU movie and going forward, it doesn't seem like it would be the case for every MCU Disney+ show. To get an Avengers movie, you have to have been familiar with the characters from the solo movies. But solo films that introduce new characters aren't that dependent on prior MCU knowledge. Captain Marvel is an example, as well as Guardians of the Galaxy and Ant-Man, except for the scene where Scott breaks into Avengers HQ and meets Falcon. Phase Four movies tied to established characters will necessitate prior knowledge, but new character films like Shang Chi or Eternals may not.

The same with the Disney+ shows. Wanda and Vision's story was not finished from Infinity War and Endgame. Therefore, prior knowledge of those movies is needed. Just like any other long running successful TV show or movie like Game of Thrones or Star Wars or Star Trek. However, I suspect new viewers will be able to drop into new character shows, like She-Hulk or Moon Knight or Ms. Marvel, with less required knowledge, which might be more palatable to fans who haven't been there since Iron Man 1. But of course, they'll all connect (in varying degrees as I said) because the business model is to make fans of the Marvel Cinema UNIVERSE, not just one movie. And if they can be successful at that, and they have so far, that's the model of sustainability. Built-in long term fans.

Edited February 9, 2021 by @therealsilvermane

[Buzzetta]

2 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

Don't read into too much as if this is a deal-breaker. The show is very entertaining and engaging.

But with this medium as opposed to theaters you have a wonderful longer screen time to go wild with telling a story. Even in your own words reading it took four (4) episodes for you to feel like the show finally picked up in a nine-episode season isn't a good thing. At least with FX's Legion as another Marvel show where it took a while for the entire backstory to play out it was extremely engaging out of the gate. And that show was eight episodes in Season 1, 11 episodes in Season 2 and 8 episodes closing out Season 3. Yet throughout that mind-warping series it kept the full story hidden many times yet kept viewers very engaged. And still peppered in X-Men references in a way you didn't need deep immersion in the source material or character lore to enjoy the experience.

In the case of WandaVision with - hold on to your seat - Wanda and Vision, who had more than one appearance in the MCU they now have a breadth and depth to their cinema lore. And here we are in the show that is extensively focused on their journey reading some folks feeling the first few episodes were not really meaningful. Fun, sure. A walk down small screen gold and silver goodness lane - you bet. But not keeping everyone feeling satisfied.

Better to call it what it is than writing off those first few episodes and now recognizing we have FINALLY gotten to the good stuff. Again - 9 episodes. So we are 177 minutes (2.95 hours) and now for the most part everyone finally feels like the show is kicking in?

• Episode 1, Filmed Before A Live Studio Audience, 30 minutes
• Episode 2, Don't Touch That Dial, 37 minutes
• Episode 3, Now In Color, 33 minutes
• Episode 4, We Interrupt This Program, 35 Minutes
• Episode 5, On A Very Special Episode, 42 minutes 

Well that's the issue... all of these Disney series seem to be committed to eight episode seasons.  The Mandalorian Season 2 is a great example of having a couple of episodes which could have been trimmed and shortened to seven rather than eight episodes.  The spider cave episode immediately comes to mind.

I agree with you on a lot of that but I think it has to do with poor editing.  Episode 4 should have been told side by side with a differently cut Episode 1.  That's why I originally said it was the "LOST" episode I was waiting for.  Remember when LOST would show us something that was going on in one episode and then within two weeks it would basically repeat elements of the story but from someone else's perspective?   Wandavision only has eight episodes to work with and I think they struck out with the editing.  What would I have done? 

• Episode 1, Filmed Before A Live Studio Audience / Episode 2 Don't Touch that Dial 45 minutes (Instead of 30 minutes)
• Episode 4, We Interrupt This Program, 35 Minutes
• Episode 3, Now In Color, 33 minutes
• Episode 5, On A Very Special Episode, 42 minutes 

Episode Four should have been shown alongside episode 1 in some capacity to show the two perspectives as to what is going on. 

[Bosco685]

37 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

Well that's the issue... all of these Disney series seem to be committed to eight episode seasons.  The Mandalorian Season 2 is a great example of having a couple of episodes which could have been trimmed and shortened to seven rather than eight episodes.  The spider cave episode immediately comes to mind.

I agree with you on a lot of that but I think it has to do with poor editing.  Episode 4 should have been told side by side with a differently cut Episode 1.  That's why I originally said it was the "LOST" episode I was waiting for.  Remember when LOST would show us something that was going on in one episode and then within two weeks it would basically repeat elements of the story but from someone else's perspective?   Wandavision only has eight episodes to work with and I think they struck out with the editing.  What would I have done? 

• Episode 1, Filmed Before A Live Studio Audience / Episode 2 Don't Touch that Dial 45 minutes (Instead of 30 minutes)
• Episode 4, We Interrupt This Program, 35 Minutes
• Episode 3, Now In Color, 33 minutes
• Episode 5, On A Very Special Episode, 42 minutes 

Episode Four should have been shown alongside episode 1 in some capacity to show the two perspectives as to what is going on. 

Have to agree they should have tightened up the editing shot group here. We didn't need to go excessive to drive home the point they are living in alternate reality.

[Bird]

1 hour ago, Buzzetta said:

 Wandavision only has eight episodes to work with

It is a 9 episode series. I do not know if they changed it to 9 or it started that way, I thought it was 8 as well but now it says 9.

[Bosco685]

3 minutes ago, Bird said:

It is a 9 episode series. I do not know if they changed it to 9 or it started that way, I thought it was 8 as well but now it says 9.

I did say '9' above which means I get extra points over Buzzetta so my evil plan worked!

[jsilverjanet]

Word on the spec street is that Villian is Chthon

 

[jsilverjanet]

56 minutes ago, jsilverjanet said:

Word on the spec street is that Villian is Chthon

 

This may then lead to Blade

[bikesnbuses]

2 hours ago, jsilverjanet said:

Word on the spec street is that Villian is Chthon

 

Dumb question..maybe? What does "Word on the spec street" mean ?  

[theCapraAegagrus]

13 hours ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Marvel's interconnected cinematic universe is in fact a big reason the Studio is so successful. Several other studios, including Warner Brothers and Universal have tried to copy it and failed. For Disney/Marvel to abandon that successful interconnected model would be kind of a dumb business move and be the opposite of sustainable. The popularity of WandaVision right now is itself proof of the sustainability of Marvel Studios' storytelling model.

But I get what you're saying. It's the complaint of many who have yet to sign on to the MCU as a fan. They prefer the traditional movie model where you don't have to have seen other movies or TV shows and be familiar with several character to get it. However, this isn't the case for every MCU movie and going forward, it doesn't seem like it would be the case for every MCU Disney+ show. To get an Avengers movie, you have to have been familiar with the characters from the solo movies. But solo films that introduce new characters aren't that dependent on prior MCU knowledge. Captain Marvel is an example, as well as Guardians of the Galaxy and Ant-Man, except for the scene where Scott breaks into Avengers HQ and meets Falcon. Phase Four movies tied to established characters will necessitate prior knowledge, but new character films like Shang Chi or Eternals may not.

The same with the Disney+ shows. Wanda and Vision's story was not finished from Infinity War and Endgame. Therefore, prior knowledge of those movies is needed. Just like any other long running successful TV show or movie like Game of Thrones or Star Wars or Star Trek. However, I suspect new viewers will be able to drop into new character shows, like She-Hulk or Moon Knight or Ms. Marvel, with less required knowledge, which might be more palatable to fans who haven't been there since Iron Man 1. But of course, they'll all connect (in varying degrees as I said) because the business model is to make fans of the Marvel Cinema UNIVERSE, not just one movie. And if they can be successful at that, and they have so far, that's the model of sustainability. Built-in long term fans.

That's a blatant lie.

[fantastic_four]

Warner Brothers was hoping Geoff Johns would be their Kevin Feige, and they tried their parallel MCU Avengers multi-film lead-in with Justice League.  Johns fizzled out, and the Justice League build-up was a pale imitation of what Feige did.

[jsilverjanet]

5 hours ago, bikesnbuses said:

Dumb question..maybe? What does "Word on the spec street" mean ?  

That comic book speculators are betting on Chthon being the villain as it has more direct ties to Wanda (Avengers 185-187) and those comics are selling at the moment 

[Turtle]

20 hours ago, the blob said:

subtract 10 minutes of credits for each episode and we are down to 2 hours

 

This is so true!  I'm not sure I've ever seen an episode of a show of any length have credits that take so long to scroll.  

[the blob]

2 hours ago, jsilverjanet said:

That comic book speculators are betting on Chthon being the villain as it has more direct ties to Wanda (Avengers 185-187) and those comics are selling at the moment 

a month or two ago I pulled those issues to the side thinking the show might impact them and now I don't know where the heck I put them!!! I have like 5+ of each. those are definitely among the "if they are a buck or less I buy them" books I have hoarded over the years (ok, pretty much any avengers 200 and under fits that bill)