Disney+'s WandaVision (2020) 6 6

[fmaz]

A few thoughts after a rewatch tonight...

People keep asking why, assuming she’s Woo’s witness protection person, Agnes isn’t on the board of townsfolk? That’s EXACTLY why it makes it all the more likely she wouldn’t be. I know it’s a SWORD operation and they’re a government organization like the FBI, but he wouldn’t be much of an agent if he took the identity of a person in WP and pinned it up on a wall where he had no real control over who could or could not see it. 

Mephisto... you know? I’m sitting watching this series with my wife, who has watched every single MCU movie with me (and enjoyed them) as well as loving Agent Carter (she sat out SHIELD) ... and imaging the WTF reaction she’d have if next episode the doorbell rings and without any explanation a red skinned devil with a long tail comes waltzing in.  I’m not saying he can’t work as a character... but I’m saying, like with Dormammu in Dr Strange, it takes context to build up to a character like that.  So I think unless we get Dr. Strange appearing soon to set things up, the hints at Mephisto are intentional RED herrings for all of us comic fans.  I might be way off, but that’s just my current thinking.

 

 

[Bosco685]

3 hours ago, fmaz said:

A few thoughts after a rewatch tonight...

People keep asking why, assuming she’s Woo’s witness protection person, Agnes isn’t on the board of townsfolk? That’s EXACTLY why it makes it all the more likely she wouldn’t be. I know it’s a SWORD operation and they’re a government organization like the FBI, but he wouldn’t be much of an agent if he took the identity of a person in WP and pinned it up on a wall where he had no real control over who could or could not see it. 

Mephisto... you know? I’m sitting watching this series with my wife, who has watched every single MCU movie with me (and enjoyed them) as well as loving Agent Carter (she sat out SHIELD) ... and imaging the WTF reaction she’d have if next episode the doorbell rings and without any explanation a red skinned devil with a long tail comes waltzing in.  I’m not saying he can’t work as a character... but I’m saying, like with Dormammu in Dr Strange, it takes context to build up to a character like that.  So I think unless we get Dr. Strange appearing soon to set things up, the hints at Mephisto are intentional RED herrings for all of us comic fans.  I might be way off, but that’s just my current thinking.

 

3 hours ago, nmtg9 said:

Catching up with this thread took longer than watching the episode. Loving this show.

Why do Agnes and Herb know they're in a show and Norm doesn't? 

Ag and nes come from the start and end of Agatha Harkness. Can the same be done for Herb with an existing character from the comics? 

My money is on Mephisto making a deal with Wanda. I'll bring back Vision for you (not fully successfully) and you provide me with the soul of your Two children. It's all I've got and I'm not convinced myself by it. 🙄

Other Quicksilver appearing threw me though. 

But the tiger on the kitchen table in Episode 5...the TIGER!!!

Just kidding. It is great the misdirections inserted all over the place. To include fan-assumed.

[fantastic_four]

5 hours ago, nmtg9 said:

Why do Agnes and Herb know they're in a show and Norm doesn't? 

Ag and nes come from the start and end of Agatha Harkness. Can the same be done for Herb with an existing character from the comics? 

Agnes has to be there helping Wanda and Mephisto for a reason we haven't seen, but if the show mirrors the comics like it has so far her ultimate goal is most likely to banish Mephisto back to his own dimension.  Why Mephisto is allowing her to be in Westview at all is an open question that puzzles me, because he clearly knows she's there since she's an integral part of the Wandavision show, and we saw her reveal she's not being mind-controlled last episode when she asked Wanda if she wanted to re-shoot a scene they flubbed.  In the comics Wanda's sons were semi-illusions she created herself from elements of Mephisto with help from Agatha Harkness, and Agatha did it to help her defeat Mephisto.  She explains it in the two pages shown below from Avengers West Coast released in 1989.  This idea seems abstract and hokey to me, so I'm guessing it's somewhat different in the show, or at least explained in a better way.

Herb is most likely Herbert Wyndham, aka the High Evolutionary, who in the comics was at least partially responsible for Wanda and Pietro's mutation at birth in Thor #134 from 1966 that I posted a page from a few days ago in this thread.  The idea that their mutation came from Magneto being their father was a much later ret-con in 1979.  I would guess that he's there to study what would be his greatest creations if he's responsible for the evolved genetics of Sokovians that led to Wanda and Pietro mutating their powers.  If that's what their plans are we may never see him again in this series, though, and his presence may end up being left as an open question that isn't answered until later films leading to the full emergence of the X-Men.

  

Edited February 7, 2021 by fantastic_four

[fantastic_four]

Most Marvel films aren't written by Kevin Feige--just guided by him--but I saw an interview with Elizabeth Olsen yesterday that she did a few years ago when Wandavision had been greenlit but not yet begun production where she said all of the ideas for this show came from Kevin Feige, and that he had them many years ago when they were planning Wanda and Pietro's presence in Age of Ultron.  That's the third implicit confirmation I've seen that Feige had the idea at the time for how to introduce mutants into the MCU if they ever got the rights back from Fox that I outlined in the thread a few days ago, and that once getting those rights back became a reality he knew that it was time to tell the tale we're seeing in this show.

It's also highly possible that he may still be saving the full reveal of mutants for a future movie or show and will just drop hints all along the way throughout phase 4.  That's what he did building up to the Avengers in phase 1, so it certainly fits that same mold to do another slow build to the X-Men.  There are no full mutant-centered films on the current upcoming slate of phases aside from this one featuring Wanda, and I doubt they'd fully introduce the X-Men and make us wait years before we get to see a film centered around them.  So all of the High Evolutionary easter eggs we're seeing in Wandavision seem likely to be hooks being thrown out to hardcore fans to assure us that mutants are coming.  

So that big moment Olsen likened to Luke showing up in Mandalorian may have been the one we just saw in episode 5.  Having Michael Fassbender show up and then we don't get to see him again for three years would be too much of a tease.

Edited February 7, 2021 by fantastic_four

[TupennyConan]

The $75B Fox purchase assures us there'll be mutants.

[TupennyConan]

12 hours ago, Beige said:

I hope these shows don't make it too complicated for non-comic readers to follow.

I was with a group of friends last night & WV came-up. Some of them had only seen a handful of the MCU movies and a debate ensued as to whether or not they'd appreciate WV. I agreed with most folks that it'd be difficult.  

Edited February 7, 2021 by TupennyConan

[fantastic_four]

The last two big open questions I have are why did SWORD director Tyler Hayward try to kill Wanda, and who is Woo's witness.  I still can't think of possibilities with supporting evidence making them likely to be true, but my current wild guesses are that Hayward is HYDRA, and Woo's witness is Herbert Wyndham.  But I don't know why High Evolutionary would be an FBI witness nor what HYDRA's agenda with Wanda would be, so it's not adding up.  If Wyndham did evolutionary experiments in Sokovia it would most likely be with the assistance of HYDRA, but why would they want Wanda dead now?  It's not making full sense for Hayward to be HYDRA yet.    Maybe Mephisto and HYDRA have some bone to pick with each other we're unaware of so far, and that's why Mephisto seems to be taunting both HYDRA and Wanda in those Wandavision commercials.

The two smaller questions I have are why Mephisto would be allowing Agatha Harkness and Herbert Wyndham to be in Westview.  He would know who they are, so why would he want them there?  

Edited February 7, 2021 by fantastic_four

[Bosco685]

11 minutes ago, TupennyConan said:

The $75B Fox purchase assures us there'll be mutants.

And a Home Alone relaunch. And a Planet of the Apes relaunch. And an Aliens relaunch...

$71.3B drives franchise action for sure.

[@therealsilvermane]

I'm going out on a limb to say there is a limit to Wanda's powers and that she can't create life. Obviously she can have babies, but her reality warping transmutating powers stop at the ability to impregnate herself and Vision's a synthezoid so it can't be from him. This means it can't be all Wanda.

In the comics, Wanda's powers are enhanced by Mephisto to allow her to make herself pregnant. Divine influence, so to speak. But what if there's a cosmic influence instead? What if Westview and its residents are caught up in some interstellar 2001 Space Odyssey-type evolutionary star child experiment? Perhaps said cosmic influence chose Wanda because she's a walking Mind Stone which no longer exists in this universe. Maybe the whole point of this thing is so Wanda can give birth to a new age of miracles? Maybe it's all about those twins. In this case, the work of the High Evolutionary makes sense.

So I'm going to say it's either heavy interdimensional magic from Mephisto, or heavy interstellar genetic engineering from the High Evolutionary. Again, it can't be all Wanda.

[@therealsilvermane]

If this story is going to follow the comics, maybe it is all Mephisto, and the point was to obtain the miraculous twins of Wanda? Perhaps Mephisto has some nefarious plans for them, knowing the potential of their powers, being children of an Infinity Stone? Perhaps our series ends on another cliffhanger with Mephisto stealing the babies and Wanda having to recruit Dr Strange to get them back, not only because they're her kids, but to prevent Mephisto from exploiting their powers?

[@therealsilvermane]

By the way, shouldn't someone have called Dr. Strange by now? Or is he busy?

[comicginger1789]

So I’m gonna revise a few of my past thoughts upon more reflection....

 The “aerospace engineer” mentioned by Monica last episode I think will be Riri Williams. I don’t think it will be Reed Richards because I think the intro to the FF will be done in a war where they were part of those failed space missions that were mentioned by Director Hayward? I think these astronauts are found, and found with powers and there you have the FF. There have been some other interesting speculations as to who this mystery engineer is but for me, and the fact I think they are setting up a newer younger gen of heroes coming, I feel Riri makes some sens here. 
 

Also that director is bad. I think that within SWORD he was doing unsanctioned experiments and one of those was to rebuild Vision as a weapon. Wanda found out and stole his body but did not know what to do so......

....she turned to (or got an offer from) Mephisto! His offer was to help her create a reality where she could live to her liking with Vision but the trade off was she would have to have kids and eventually give them to Mephisto. Maybe Wanda did not like this so Mephisto did it any way and has some kind of light control over her while she control of some of it (sounds convoluted sure but it’s where I’m at hahah)

The show will end with this all being revealed and Wanda losing her kids. I don’t foresee long term plans for Wiccan and Speed I’m sorry. I think this is it for the kids and I think their death pushes Wanda over the edge to a point where she alters reality and merges other Marvel properties with the current realm. That or she alters reality, as she will realize the extent of her powers and change reality in some way where we live in a world with mutants, the FF, etc.

This sets up the Dr Strange Multiverse of madness movie where he has to “fix” what Wanda has done and along the way battle Kang because as a time traveller (or as I believe the MCU will adapt him, a reality traveller) he will be causing headaches in some way.

Boom! 

[comicginger1789]

28 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

By the way, shouldn't someone have called Dr. Strange by now? Or is he busy?

My guess is he’s either tied up with the beginnings of whatever this is going to turn into or Hayward has intentionally kept this quote outside of those on site outside Westview and Dr Strange has no clue yet. 

[fantastic_four]

23 minutes ago, comicginger1789 said:

This sets up the Dr Strange Multiverse of madness movie where he has to “fix” what Wanda has done and along the way battle Kang because as a time traveller (or as I believe the MCU will adapt him, a reality traveller) he will be causing headaches in some way.

Kang is already confirmed to be in the next Ant-Man and Wasp movie as a time traveler, so I doubt it's him.  The majority of the speculation I've heard is Strange's big bad will either be Wanda or Mephisto, but I'm still hoping it's Shuma-Gorath.

[comicginger1789]

1 hour ago, fantastic_four said:

 

The two smaller questions I have are why Mephisto would be allowing Agatha Harkness and Herbert Wyndham to be in Westview.  He would know who they are, so why would he want them there?  

I think Agatha is either a full on reference and not actually Agatha Harkness at all, but rather someone in disguise. And if she is Agatha, then Mephisto has some control over her and has her in there to help him but likely against her will or true desire. Either way I think we have to not just assume since Agatha in the comics is “good” that this Agatha also must be good.

Also I will be stunned if High Evolutionary is a thing. I understand we have seen references but I’m gonna call that an Easter Egg for fans and nothing more. If it is consider me horribly wrong and surprised that he would be used in any real capacity.

[fantastic_four]

11 minutes ago, comicginger1789 said:

My guess is he’s either tied up with the beginnings of whatever this is going to turn into or Hayward has intentionally kept this quote outside of those on site outside Westview and Dr Strange has no clue yet. 

Yes, Hayward clearly wants to kill Wanda for whatever reason so he wouldn't have SWORD call Strange, SHIELD, the Avengers, or anyone else until he achieves whatever it is he's after.

[@therealsilvermane]

21 minutes ago, comicginger1789 said:

 The “aerospace engineer” mentioned by Monica last episode I think will be Riri Williams. I don’t think it will be Reed Richards because I think the intro to the FF will be done in a war where they were part of those failed space missions that were mentioned by Director Hayward? I think these astronauts are found, and found with powers and there you have the FF. There have been some other interesting speculations as to who this mystery engineer is but for me, and the fact I think they are setting up a newer younger gen of heroes coming, I feel Riri makes some sens here. 

All interesting theories in above post, but I'm pretty sure Monica was not calling Riri Williams. The actor cast for the role is Dominique Thorne, who is about 21 years old, which means Marvel is most likely going with the comics storyline origin that Riri is an engineering student when she creates her Ironheart tech which means she's very young now, and probably not seasoned enough, well known enough, or old enough for a Captain of the SWORD Agency to give her a call. I think Riri makes her debut in either Armor Wars or Ironheart.

I think it's more likely that if there's a signifigance to Monica's "aerospace engineer" that it's one of the Fantastic Four pre-super powers, either Reed Richards or Sue Storm. Plus, Riri Williams is most likely a mechanical or electrical engineering student like Tony Stark.

[Bosco685]

[comicginger1789]

2 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

Kang is already confirmed to be in the next Ant-Man and Wasp movie as a time traveler, so I doubt it's him.  The majority of the speculation I've heard is Strange's big bad will either be Wanda or Mephisto, but I'm still hoping it's Shuma-Gorath.

Confirmed where? I know he was cast but I never saw a definitive article saying “Kang is in Ant Man”. Rumours sure, but you know how many rumours and theories and what not are out there right now? I can name like 50-75 characters people seem to think are “on their way” and which seems impossible. Over the next 15-20 years sure but anytime soon? Impossible I say! 

[fantastic_four]

2 minutes ago, comicginger1789 said:

Also I will be stunned if High Evolutionary is a thing. I understand we have seen references but I’m gonna call that an Easter Egg for fans and nothing more. If it is consider me horribly wrong and surprised that he would be used in any real capacity.

Then who is Herb, and who genetically altered wide swaths of people in Sokovia?  And why have they dropped at MINIMUM a dozen hints at High Evolutionary?  I think we're up closer to two dozen now; I'll try to dig up the lists being compiled of all the hints later.  Usually Marvel easter eggs that go nowhere are shown once and then never referenced again, but they are REPEATEDLY referencing High Evolutionary.