MCU's SPIDER-MAN: NO WAY HOME (2021?) 7 7

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/9/2022 at 4:54 PM, paperheart said:

$300 million (on its way to $600 million) > than the combined WW BO of wave 1 of Phase Bore of the MCU

I know you guys look for any excuse to hate on Disney World but comparing Spider-Man No Way Home to any other MCU film released in Phase Four so far is like comparing the NFL Super Bowl to a NFL regular season game. The hype surrounding No Way Home with its expectations of combining two decades and three franchises of the most popular superhero on the planet into one movie is akin to an Avengers Endgame level event or the Super Bowl. Black Widow, Shang Chi, and Eternals could never have generated as much interest and hype as No Way Home was generating. While for sure there was big interest and hype for Black Widow, Shang Chi, and Eternals, as evidenced by the fact that they are all in the 2021 Top 6 movies for North American box office and at the Top 2021 worldwide box office for movies that didn't get to screen in China, they weren't "I have to see this in a theater NOW or I'll miss out" movies the way No Way Home was. Black Widow was available to watch on Disney+ and Shang-Chi and Eternals were guaranteed to be free on Disney+ two months after their theatrical releases. 

The pandemic also limited movies like BW, SC, and Eternals, just as it limited every single movie during the pandemic. A lot of people weren't willing to risk their health for even a MCU movie release especially if that movie was on Disney+ like BW or was guaranteed free on Disney+ within two months. Spider-Man No Way Home, with its hype and super-spoilers, required it to be seen its opening weekend and fans don't know when it will be streamed or broadcast free on TV. Even as moviegoing behavior improved towards going back to the movies during the fall, pandemic fears have still kept a lot of moviegoers away in 2021 except for cases where you have to go see the movie. In North America, Shang Chi was a case of people want to see this in the theaters now. In the case of SpiderMan NWH, it's triple that so far.

The case of Spider-Man No Way Home is a case of it being an event movie on the level of Avengers Endgame or Star Wars Return of the Jedi. It was that big and can't really be fairly compared box office wise to the regular solo MCU movies, especially during a pandemic. 

Edited January 10, 2022 by @therealsilvermane

[Finhead]

On 1/10/2022 at 7:24 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

I know you guys look for any excuse to hate on Disney World but comparing Spider-Man No Way Home to any other MCU film released in Phase Four so far is like comparing the NFL Super Bowl to a NFL regular season game. The hype surrounding No Way Home with its expectations of combining two decades and three franchises of the most popular superhero on the planet into one movie is akin to an Avengers Endgame level event or the Super Bowl. Black Widow, Shang Chi, and Eternals could never have generated as much interest and hype as No Way Home was generating. While for sure there was big interest and hype for Black Widow, Shang Chi, and Eternals, as evidenced by the fact that they are all in the 2021 Top 6 movies for North American box office and at the Top 2021 worldwide box office for movies that didn't get to screen in China, they weren't "I have to see this in a theater NOW or I'll miss out" movies the way No Way Home was. Black Widow was available to watch on Disney+ and Shang-Chi and Eternals were guaranteed to be free on Disney+ two months after their theatrical releases. 

The pandemic also limited movies like BW, SC, and Eternals, just as it limited every single movie during the pandemic. A lot of people weren't willing to risk their health for even a MCU movie release especially if that movie was on Disney+ like BW or was guaranteed free on Disney+ within two months. Spider-Man No Way Home, with its hype and super-spoilers, required it to be seen its opening weekend and fans don't know when it will be streamed or broadcast free on TV. Even as moviegoing behavior improved towards going back to the movies during the fall, pandemic fears have still kept a lot of moviegoers away in 2021 except for cases where you have to go see the movie. In North America, Shang Chi was a case of people want to see this in the theaters now. In the case of SpiderMan NWH, it's triple that so far.

The case of Spider-Man No Way Home is a case of it being an event movie on the level of Avengers Endgame or Star Wars Return of the Jedi. It was that big and can't really be fairly compared box office wise to the regular solo MCU movies, especially during a pandemic. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

Phase Bore: is boring

No Way Home: is entertaining

Silver: "But about those boring films..."

[MattTheDuck]

I'm glad to hear the pandemic ended before No Way Home opened.  That certainly explains the truly epic box office difference between it and previous Marvel films.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/10/2022 at 12:07 PM, MattTheDuck said:

I'm glad to hear the pandemic ended before No Way Home opened.  That certainly explains the truly epic box office difference between it and previous Marvel films.

My primary reasoning why you can't compare No Way Home to Black Widow, Shang-Chi, or Eternals was because of the nature of No Way Home as an event movie on the level of the first Avengers movie, Avengers Endgame, or even Star Wars Return of the Jedi. It's like comparing the box office of the first Avengers movie to the box office of Captain America First Avenger or Thor. The pandemic has only complicated matters and for a lot of people, it took putting Tobey Maguire, Andrew Garfield, and Tom Holland together in one Spider-Man movie to get them to come to the theater. Had Spider-Man No Way Home just been a regular MCU solo movie featuring only Tom Holland Spider-Man and some new villain like Kraven, I say that film would probably have trouble getting past $800 million with the pandemic and the current China Marvel boycott.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/10/2022 at 10:57 AM, Finhead said:

I don't believe I was actually in an argument or debate. I'm merely trying to put your previous post about comparing the box office of NWH with the rest of the Phase Four MCU films into perspective. 

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/10/2022 at 11:01 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Phase Bore: is boring

No Way Home: is entertaining

Silver: "But about those boring films..."

Spider-Man No Way Home is part of Phase "Bore" as you call it. Phase Four also includes the hit Disney+ shows, the upcoming Doctor Strange Ant-Man Black Panther Thor Captain Marvel Guardians of the Galaxy sequels, and the debut of the Fantastic Four. Adam Warlock is on the way. Moon Knight, She-Hulk, Ms Marvel and Secret Invasion are on the way to Disney+ this year. Shang-Chi exceeded expectations and has some of the highest user ratings of any MCU origin movie.

Phase Four is far from boring. 

What's been truly boring in 2020 and 2021 is the DC movie universe's attempt to drop a deuce (#2) phase movies, Dune, and just about every other blockbuster franchise movie not affiliated with the MCU.

Edited January 10, 2022 by @therealsilvermane

[theCapraAegagrus]

Nobody knew that Maguire and Garfield are in No Way Home. Try a different whataboutism in defense of Phase Bore.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Oh, I see that he tried DC whataboutism, too. Nice try Mr. Logical Fallacies.

Edited January 10, 2022 by theCapraAegagrus

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/10/2022 at 12:55 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Nobody knew that Maguire and Garfield are in No Way Home. Try a different whataboutism in defense of Phase Bore.

Everybody speculated on it. Every trailer already blasted the faces of Willem Dafoe Norman Osborn and Alfred Molina Doc Ock everywhere. The hype was to the moon for this movie. Maguire and Garfield didn't just come out of left field. 

[kav]

On 1/10/2022 at 5:58 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

Now everybody won't shut up about Andrew Garfield. And they called me mad when I said Garfield was my favorite Peter Parker and that Amazing Spider-Man was my favorite Spider-Man movie. 

Now that I think about it he was a good parker he was just ruined by bad scripts and thats why I didnt like him.

[kav]

On 1/10/2022 at 6:24 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

The hype surrounding No Way Home with its expectations of combining two decades and three franchises of the most popular superhero on the planet

Neither I nor anyone I spoke to that watched it knew a thing about the three franchises.  It was a surprise.  I went in merely knowing it was getting good reviews universally.  |
So, no.

[kav]

On 1/10/2022 at 9:39 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

My primary reasoning why you can't compare No Way Home to Black Widow, Shang-Chi, or Eternals was because of the nature of No Way Home as an event movie on the level of the first Avengers movie, Avengers Endgame, or even Star Wars Return of the Jedi. It's like comparing the box office of the first Avengers movie to the box office of Captain America First Avenger or Thor. The pandemic has only complicated matters and for a lot of people, it took putting Tobey Maguire, Andrew Garfield, and Tom Holland together in one Spider-Man movie to get them to come to the theater. Had Spider-Man No Way Home just been a regular MCU solo movie featuring only Tom Holland Spider-Man and some new villain like Kraven, I say that film would probably have trouble getting past $800 million with the pandemic and the current China Marvel boycott.

If no way home had a bad script, three franchise spider mans could not have saved it.  No matter how you try to argue about this, it boils down to script.  It always does.  NWH succeeded because the script was excellent.  BW and shang chi and eternals had poor scripts.
The end.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 1/10/2022 at 1:44 PM, kav said:

If no way home had a bad script, three franchise spider mans could not have saved it.  No matter how you try to argue about this, it boils down to script.  It always does.  NWH succeeded because the script was excellent.  BW and shang chi and eternals had poor scripts.
The end.

That's 100% your opinion. While I agree that Black Widow could have used a better --script, I felt the story of Shang-Chi was outstanding. My opinion. Story-wise, the --script of No Way Home was about on par with other MCU movies. It had its share of plot holes and its share of great character moments. The thing that really put it over the top for me in comparison to the first two MCU Spider-Man movies is that Tom Holland Peter Parker finally got to experience the tragedy that has plagued his character since 1963, that is, loss, as if Marvel Studios was holding out for this third film. But just because it's a deeper Spider-Man story than Homecoming or FFH isn't enough to make NWH pole vault over its two predecessor Spidey movies at the box office. NWH's RT user and critic scores aren't much higher than Shang Chi's.

Box office wise, Tobey Maguire, Andrew Garfield, Tom Holland, Willem Dafoe, Alfred Molina, Jamie Foxx, et al all coming together in one Spiderverse party movie is absolutely what is making No Way Home one of the biggest movies of all time. 

Edited January 10, 2022 by @therealsilvermane

[chrisco37]

NWH came out right when the new variant was blowing up and we all were told to stay back indoors.  SC and Eternals didn't have all that going when they came out.  

NWH wasn't hyped up any more than any other Spidey movie.   It was going to be big because it's Spidey.  Not because there was an extra push and super-spoilers.  I had never even seen any of the Garfield movies prior.  I thought it was cool to bring in the other Spidey's.  It worked in the story.  

But, like most (I'd say almost all) people, I was going to see this new "Spidey 3" as soon as they announced they were making one.  I liked the first 2, so I was going to see this one.  I expect most people were.  How many people do you know that said, "Man, I wasn't going to go see this one.  But then I found out Tobey Maguire was in it, so I just had to see it.".  I doubt that accounted for the extra box office numbers.    

[kav]

On 1/10/2022 at 11:12 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

That's 100% your opinion. While I agree that Black Widow could have used a better ---script, I felt the story of Shang-Chi was outstanding. My opinion. Story-wise, the ---script of No Way Home was about on par with other MCU movies. It had its share of plot holes and its share of great character moments. The thing that really put it over the top for me in comparison to the first two MCU Spider-Man movies is that Tom Holland Peter Parker finally got to experience the tragedy that has plagued his character since 1963, that is, loss, as if Marvel Studios was holding out for this third film. But just because it's a deeper Spider-Man story than Homecoming or FFH isn't enough to make NWH pole vault over its two predecessor Spidey movies at the box office. NWH's RT user and critic scores aren't much higher than Shang Chi's.

Box office wise, Tobey Maguire, Andrew Garfield, Tom Holland, Willem Dafoe, Alfred Molina, Jamie Foxx, et al all coming together in one Spiderverse party movie is absolutely what is making No Way Home one of the biggest movies of all time. 

You can throw a ton of fine actors into a film and it flops because of script.  There are many many examples of this.  NWH did not I repeat did not become a blockbuster because they shoved a wad of actors in it.  It all boils down to script.  And it is not 'my opinion'-the box office tells the tale.  Everything you described about why NWH was a success, Tom Holland Peter Parker finally got to experience the tragedy that has plagued his character since 1963, deeper story etc, is -script.  I dont see how this can even be argued.  Good script box office success.  Bad -script box office  or flop.  

[Bosco685]

On 1/10/2022 at 1:44 PM, kav said:

If no way home had a bad script, three franchise spider mans could not have saved it.  No matter how you try to argue about this, it boils down to script.  It always does.  NWH succeeded because the script was excellent.  BW and shang chi and eternals had poor scripts.
The end.

Does anyone assume there is a voice of reason on the other end you are debating with that is open to a differing view??

Why do you think...

{checks Disney notes}

"Never has there even been a Marvel Studios film that has misfired (even the ones that had a low result) and no matter when box office results are now low they are really high and everyone around the world loves these films and anyone that doesn't is a hater and other ugly terms because they are stinkers and jealous......"

[kav]

On 1/10/2022 at 11:21 AM, Bosco685 said:

Does anyone assume there is a voice of reason on the other end you are debating with that is open to a differing view??

 

On 1/10/2022 at 11:12 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

No Way Home was about on par with other MCU movies.

NWH was not 'on par' with eternals, BW, or shang chi-not even close.
And this is not 'my opinion'.  This is box office fact.  

[theCapraAegagrus]

His feelings don't care about facts.

[Bosco685]

On 1/10/2022 at 2:32 PM, kav said:

NWH was not 'on par' with eternals, BW, or shang chi-not even close.
And this is not 'my opinion'.  This is box office fact.  

To say No Way Home was on par to these most recent films is truly viewing the world through Disney-tinted glasses.

Repeat viewings are driving this film to wild box office levels. You better believe moviegoers are very much appreciating their Spider-Men together like that accounting for all three franchises.