theCapraAegagrus Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 As long as Black Superman ain't Kal-El, it'll be fine. The general public may think it's woke race-swapping, though. Could be a tough sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted March 2, 2021 Author Share Posted March 2, 2021 Wow! theCapraAegagrus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunsicker Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Bosco685 said: Wow! I'm not sure what this issue with that is. I would hope that they wouldn't center the movie on the "angry black man" stereotype. Unless you are reading that as "Ray Fisher is an angry black man and we can't center the movie on him"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted March 2, 2021 Author Share Posted March 2, 2021 11 minutes ago, thunsicker said: I'm not sure what this issue with that is. I would hope that they wouldn't center the movie on the "angry black man" stereotype. Unless you are reading that as "Ray Fisher is an angry black man and we can't center the movie on him"? Zack Snyder has indicated already repeatedly in HIS version of Justice League Cyborg is the heart of the film (I bet due to his Motherbox integration he will help Bruce travel to an alternate world). WB executives came in behind Snyder when he was heading out and changed the direction because they were concerned the film centered around an 'angry black man'. If you are familiar with the character in the comic books... ... you are dealing with a man that due to events outside his control turned him into a less-than-human character that is bitter due to what has occurred. Especially since his mother died in the same explosion that maimed him severely. So of course he will be in constant turmoil over his origin and situation. Yet his progress is such he was not only key to The New Teen Titans but also the New 52 Justice League. So I can see why Snyder factored into his storyline. So no - not "Ray Fisher is an angry black man" as the concern (he never even came up as having issues prior to calling out WB). It is the character they now wanted to relegate in the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 HeS nOt BeInG sPeCiFiC eNoUgH sagekilz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted March 2, 2021 Author Share Posted March 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, Angel of Death said: HeS nOt BeInG sPeCiFiC eNoUgH MoSt PrObAbLeY bECaUSe ThOsE iN tHe KnOw WoUlD gEt FrIeD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunsicker Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 27 minutes ago, Bosco685 said: Zack Snyder has indicated already repeatedly in HIS version of Justice League Cyborg is the heart of the film (I bet due to his Motherbox integration he will help Bruce travel to an alternate world). WB executives came in behind Snyder when he was heading out and changed the direction because they were concerned the film centered around an 'angry black man'. If you are familiar with the character in the comic books... ... you are dealing with a man that due to events outside his control turned him into a less-than-human character that is bitter due to what has occurred. Especially since his mother died in the same explosion that maimed him severely. So of course he will be in constant turmoil over his origin and situation. Yet his progress is such he was not only key to The New Teen Titans but also the New 52 Justice League. So I can see why Snyder factored into his storyline. So no - not "Ray Fisher is an angry black man" as the concern (he never even came up as having issues prior to calling out WB). It is the character they now wanted to relegate in the story. Fine, make Cyborg the center of the film. But avoid using the 'Angry Black Man' trope. We've had enough of that from Hollywood already. How about Cyborg as the hopeful black man star of the film? Or as the friendly black man? Shy black man? Just avoid the stereotypical 'Angry Black Man'. Though I can also see where Warner Brothers, in a film with Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman would be a bit hesitant on making Cyborg the center of the film. Not because of the color of his skin, but because of his relative IP value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
media_junkie Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 12 minutes ago, thunsicker said: Though I can also see where Warner Brothers, in a film with Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman would be a bit hesitant on making Cyborg the center of the film. Not because of the color of his skin, but because of his relative IP value. While I am firmly in the Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman camp, don't sell Cyborg short. Many younger people have been exposed to him more via Teen Titans and Teen Titans Go! cartoons, than they have Superman or Wonder Woman (let's be honest, Batman is marketed to every age and everyone knows him). theCapraAegagrus, Icculus308win, Bosco685 and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted March 2, 2021 Author Share Posted March 2, 2021 30 minutes ago, thunsicker said: Fine, make Cyborg the center of the film. But avoid using the 'Angry Black Man' trope. We've had enough of that from Hollywood already. How about Cyborg as the hopeful black man star of the film? Or as the friendly black man? Shy black man? Just avoid the stereotypical 'Angry Black Man'. Though I can also see where Warner Brothers, in a film with Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman would be a bit hesitant on making Cyborg the center of the film. Not because of the color of his skin, but because of his relative IP value. Cyborg is not about being an angry black man. Even assuming that leaves me to believe these WB executives were missing something. How familiar are you with Cyborg, other than Teen Titans GO!? 16 minutes ago, media_junkie said: While I am firmly in the Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman camp, don't sell Cyborg short. Many younger people have been exposed to him more via Teen Titans and Teen Titans Go! cartoons, than they have Superman or Wonder Woman (let's be honest, Batman is marketed to every age and everyone knows him). Cyborg is very much recognized Even ended up with his own traditional LEGO figure as a standalone game piece. Messing with his design is missing all that characteristics that make him very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the blob Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 1 hour ago, thunsicker said: I'm not sure what this issue with that is. I would hope that they wouldn't center the movie on the "angry black man" stereotype. Unless you are reading that as "Ray Fisher is an angry black man and we can't center the movie on him"? That was the villian in Black Panther. Marvel made a lot of money. Bosco685 and Icculus308win 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the blob Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 40 minutes ago, thunsicker said: Fine, make Cyborg the center of the film. But avoid using the 'Angry Black Man' trope. We've had enough of that from Hollywood already. How about Cyborg as the hopeful black man star of the film? Or as the friendly black man? Shy black man? Just avoid the stereotypical 'Angry Black Man'. Though I can also see where Warner Brothers, in a film with Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman would be a bit hesitant on making Cyborg the center of the film. Not because of the color of his skin, but because of his relative IP value. agree, cyborg is a secondary character, for now. as for angry...that's kind of never how the character has been characterized though in movies/tvs. he usually seems to be pretty calm cool and collected in the 90 minute dc cartoon movies. in doom patrol he's one of the less pissed off characters. i can't remember the comics though. let's face it, in justice league flash and cyborg were pretty peripheral characters. I got absolutely no sense of flash character development or why they would have a movie based on him, particularly when i have been watching flash on TV for like 6 or 7 years with A TON of character development. this is the problem, flash and arrow have really intricate personas fans have been watching for years. the shows got a little monotonous, but they worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted March 2, 2021 Author Share Posted March 2, 2021 11 minutes ago, the blob said: That was the villian in Black Panther. Marvel made a lot of money. I think people forget that. And Michael B. Jordan's character was to the extreme level beyond anything Cyborg would convey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bird Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 "angry black man" is the issue, not whether cyborg actually is how many movies have angry white men as the protagonists? Most? The idea that they distilled Cyborg down to angry black man is the issue, focusing on the skin color rather than on the character and stereotyping him down to a cliche Muno42, thunsicker, HotKey and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunsicker Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 2 hours ago, Bosco685 said: Cyborg is not about being an angry black man. Even assuming that leaves me to believe these WB executives were missing something. How familiar are you with Cyborg, other than Teen Titans GO!? Well I started collecting comics in the mid 70's to mid 80's so Wolfman and Perez's New Teen Titans were the best thing that DC had going at the time. I don't really know Cyborg from Teen Titans GO. In the Wolfman Perez stories he definitely wasn't an angry black man. So if the depiction that they were seeing in Snyder's movie was, I can see where they would be concerned. 2 hours ago, the blob said: That was the villian in Black Panther. Marvel made a lot of money. Yes Killmonger was an angry black man. But T'Chaka, T'Challa, Shuri, there were plenty of black people in the film who weren't playing that overdone stereotype. 1 hour ago, Bird said: "angry black man" is the issue, not whether cyborg actually is how many movies have angry white men as the protagonists? Most? The idea that they distilled Cyborg down to angry black man is the issue, focusing on the skin color rather than on the character and stereotyping him down to a cliche Right. If like that Marvel has given Teyonah Parris a major role in WandaVision. But if they had decided to make her the sassy black friend of Wanda I would have said something like "we can't have a sassy black friend in WandaVision". That is not that we can't have a black woman in our production, but we can't have that overdone trope in our film. I just that when I read "we can't have an angry Black man at the center of the movie" I read it as more of the later rather than the former. I may be wrong, I don't really know any of the players in this personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted March 3, 2021 Author Share Posted March 3, 2021 1 hour ago, thunsicker said: Well I started collecting comics in the mid 70's to mid 80's so Wolfman and Perez's New Teen Titans were the best thing that DC had going at the time. I don't really know Cyborg from Teen Titans GO. In the Wolfman Perez stories he definitely wasn't an angry black man. So if the depiction that they were seeing in Snyder's movie was, I can see where they would be concerned. I think over the years we either forget or alter our own memories. DC Comics #26 (1980) with the 1st appearance of Cyborg where he rages on his father for what he has become. Victor Stone has always had temper hurdles to overcome. djzombi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsilverjanet Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 Cyborg on Doom Patrol has a bit of a chip on his shoulder maybe if Elizabeth Olsen would give him acting lessons on grief he would be an academy award nominee greggy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotKey Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 If I didnt know better I'd say Joss has an account on these forums... Glad to see he is being held accountable for these years of accusations and confirmations from people directly involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted March 6, 2021 Author Share Posted March 6, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share Posted March 9, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 The Russian family aspect was so dumb, and it was obviously mirroring Whedon's contribution of the Sokovian family in Age of Ultron. It's not 100% Whedon's fault; That much is true. Couldn't he have been the slightest bit creative, though, and not just repeated his shticks from the Avengers he directed...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
