HBO's THE LAST OF US starring Pedro Pascal (2023) 4 4

[Zonker]

On 3/8/2023 at 1:11 AM, the blob said:

20 years. Someone is making pharma in atlanta. Fedra drives cars and such. It just seems that a few quarantine zones have collapsed (they referenced Pittsburgh last episode). The western town has solar. Boston has plenty of electricity. It is all pretty precarious if Kansas City survived just because they drove the shroomheads underground and they were waiting to get out. Once they attack en masse they are hard to fight. We don't know how much industry is going on. All you need is one infected person to get inside and they could cause hundreds of others to get infected.

 

As some of us have nitpicked before, while the characters, writing and acting are all first-rate, the world-building does seem to be inconsistent.  The Atlanta QZ is said to have factories producing sleeping pills and bullets.  And we see Boston Fedra has its helicopters flying, but people sell shoelaces on the street for ration cards, there is no sign of manufacturing, car batteries are worth killing for, and the jobs available to Joel are body burning, street sweeping and sewage shoveling.  The Fireflies have the ability to get Riley to Atlanta, Tommy to Wyoming, and apparently have some kind of medical science operation going out west.  Maybe Fedra has trade convoys organized between the various QZ's to enable a rudimentary supply chain-- not to mention importing enough edible food to get Boston through 20 New England winters--but it would be interesting to actually see some of that on the screen.  

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

On 3/9/2023 at 2:46 PM, fantastic_four said:

The body obesity doesn't explain why a bloater would be so tall anyway.

I didn't think there would be a good explanation when I asked, but I held out (and still hold out) hope it wasn't just that they wanted the bloater to be bigger than life...but that's still my guess as to why they did it.

It's a nit-pick, and not one that destroyed the show or anything.  Just a momentary eyeroll in an otherwise-awesome series.  

They really had no choice but to make the Bloater huge. Had they not gamers would have been up in arms. Bloaters are huge in the game because they obviously represent an end of level Boss. I thought it worked really well. Had they made them normal size, the whole escalation of threat and danger in that episode would have fallen flat.

I don't think anyone has mentioned the acid spores that Bloaters chuck at you, which i believe can be seen in the background scene of the Bloater battle a few episodes ago. 

It's sci-fi after all, so one has to suspend disbelief and fully embrace the fiction that is rooted in science fact.

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

On 3/9/2023 at 3:01 PM, fantastic_four said:

I agree that the distinction is not trivial between infected and zombies.  Using cordyceps as the zombification device also changes the genre that the story falls into.  Zombies are fantasy because there's obviously no known way for organisms to survive anything you do to them aside from destroying the brain, but a cordyceps infection brings essentially the same story into science fiction since we can imagine a species like cordyceps existing since it already exists in nature.

Having said that if we drilled down into how a cordyceps infection would work with humans in real life it wouldn't be much like what we're seeing in the show, so I suspect the idea falls apart pretty quickly.  A quick example--in insects by the time cordyceps is visible on the ant's body he's dead, whereas with humans obviously we see MASSIVE body transformations.  Hard to see how cordyceps could keep a human body alive for as long as it does given that cordyceps in nature kills the ant after a relatively short time.

To be fair they've said that most humans do die pretty quickly after infection, but still, we've got all of these different types of transformations that have no parallel with the real fungus.  We could probably come up with explanations, but I'm not totally sure there's a completely satisfying one that would allow a human to stay alive as long as they do.

The series has touched on hibernation of the infected several times, and this is how some have survived 20 odd years between their murderous rampages for food.

[drotto]

On 3/9/2023 at 11:20 AM, Zonker said:

As some of us have nitpicked before, while the characters, writing and acting are all first-rate, the world-building does seem to be inconsistent.  The Atlanta QZ is said to have factories producing sleeping pills and bullets.  And we see Boston Fedra has its helicopters flying, but people sell shoelaces on the street for ration cards, there is no sign of manufacturing, car batteries are worth killing for, and the jobs available to Joel are body burning, street sweeping and sewage shoveling.  The Fireflies have the ability to get Riley to Atlanta, Tommy to Wyoming, and apparently have some kind of medical science operation going out west.  Maybe Fedra has trade convoys organized between the various QZ's to enable a rudimentary supply chain-- not to mention importing enough edible food to get Boston through 20 New England winters--but it would be interesting to actually see some of that on the screen.  

Maybe I am just a bit more optimistic in general, but I think in reality there would be a 2 to 5 years of instability and pure disorder, but then people would settle in.  After that, we would do what we have always done, settle in, and figure out how to move forward, and survive.  These show assume that society would remain in a constant state of and decay.  While some of this would occur, and areas would not recover for years if every, but population centers would come back and thrive given time. These shows always assume an event like this would only bring out the worst in humanity, and for the most part ignor the good.  Because if they acknowledge the good, we would not have a show.

[Zonker]

On 3/9/2023 at 12:47 PM, drotto said:

Maybe I am just a bit more optimistic in general, but I think in reality there would be a 2 to 5 years of instability and pure disorder, but then people would settle in.  After that, we would do what we have always done, settle in, and figure out how to move forward, and survive.  These show assume that society would remain in a constant state of and decay.  While some of this would occur, and areas would not recover for years if every, but population centers would come back and thrive given time. These shows always assume an event like this would only bring out the worst in humanity, and for the most part ignor the good.  Because if they acknowledge the good, we would not have a show.

One would hope so.  But I think the template for most dystopian fiction (going back to the post-nuclear apocalypse of A Canticle for Liebowitz) is the fall of Rome, which took Europe almost 1000 years to recover from. 

[drotto]

On 3/9/2023 at 1:10 PM, Zonker said:

One would hope so.  But I think the template for most dystopian fiction (going back to the post-nuclear apocalypse of A Canticle for Liebowitz) is the fall of Rome, which took Europe almost 1000 years to recover from. 

I think that the advance in technology,  and the fact that the vast amounts and knowledge that we have gained in the last 2000 years, would have massive positive implications.   We would at minimum, figure out how to make fuel, make batteries, and make basic medications.  Yes, luxuries would be on the back burner, but culture would also have some advances.   People would still be making music, writing, putting on plays (even if they lacked thr ability to film them).  

 

The point is there are very few periods where humanity as a whole has completely stalled, and these shows always paint it as such.  In addition, we tend to have a Eurocentric view on these things.  When Rome collapsed, other cultures (particularly in Asia) continued, and were not affected.  So in these shows we remain Eurocentric,  because I doubt a society like China, Korea, or Japan would follow the same trajectory.   So the implied complete world collapse again is from a very narrow viewpoint. Yes, I know long range communication would be limited at best.

[jcjames]

On 3/9/2023 at 9:20 AM, Zonker said:

As some of us have nitpicked before, while the characters, writing and acting are all first-rate, the world-building does seem to be inconsistent.  The Atlanta QZ is said to have factories producing sleeping pills and bullets.  And we see Boston Fedra has its helicopters flying, but people sell shoelaces on the street for ration cards, there is no sign of manufacturing, car batteries are worth killing for, and the jobs available to Joel are body burning, street sweeping and sewage shoveling.  The Fireflies have the ability to get Riley to Atlanta, Tommy to Wyoming, and apparently have some kind of medical science operation going out west.  Maybe Fedra has trade convoys organized between the various QZ's to enable a rudimentary supply chain-- not to mention importing enough edible food to get Boston through 20 New England winters--but it would be interesting to actually see some of that on the screen.  

To some extent, it can be a microcosmic allegory, and a magnification, of the wide gaps of comfort and security that we see today around the world. Helicopters fly over extreme poverty where children mine cobalt in the Congo, luxury cars drive past wretched homeless encampments in LA, people rent their bodies or kill their neighbor for a scrap or a needle.  

But yes, the point still stands, that limited manufacturing, oil-refining, electricity, supply-chains are somewhat still functioning in the world of the show. 

[Artboy99]

Ep09, wow. Really liked it.

[jcjames]

 

Ethical dilemma... 

Spoiler

On the one hand, Ellie would have probably wanted to give herself up for the surgery which would likely kill her. She did not want to give up and go back to Jackson when Joel offered. She wanted to see it through to the end. ALTHOUGH, she wasn't thinking she would have to die for them to experiment on her. She was hoping to go back with Joel afterwards.  

And, on the other hand, Joel probably had very little to zero faith or trust that the doctors would be able to find a cure using her brain and she would have died in vain. And he had grown too attached to Ellie to let go of her. If he had let the doctors do the surgery and left her there, he would have probably put a bullet in his own head as soon as he left. 

I don't know the game, but I do like the show. This last episode was pretty good. 

ETA: 

Spoiler

Joel did a lot of killing, and a lot of lying to Ellie. And had to double-down on those lies. That guy must be loaded with conflict in his head by now. 

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by jcjames

[Bosco685]

Really emotional and action-packed finale.

Looking forward to the next season.

[WolverineX]

On 3/13/2023 at 5:26 AM, Bosco685 said:

 

Looking forward to the next season.

You won't.  Last of us 2 is horrible.  

[I like pie]

Very soft ending. Great acting this season but overall, to me, it just feels like another zombie apocalypse redo.

7.0/10 for the season.

[Zonker]

On 3/14/2023 at 8:58 AM, I like pie said:

Very soft ending. Great acting this season but overall, to me, it just feels like another zombie apocalypse redo.

7.0/10 for the season.

"Soft" is an unusual take on the ending.  My view is it is exactly the dilemmas highlighted in the finale, both 

Spoiler

the fate-of-humanity and Joel/Ellie's relationship

that make this different from any other apocalyptic scenario I've come across.

[I like pie]

I was definitely more interested in what the future held in store after the first season of TWD than TLoU

Edited March 15, 2023 by I like pie

[Zonker]

On 3/14/2023 at 12:05 PM, I like pie said:

I was definitely more interested in what the future held in store after the first season of TWD than the TLoU

Fair enough.  I've not played the games, so no idea where season 2 will be going.  But I agree it is hard to see how season 2 can keep the story moving forward without revisiting or reversing the decisions the characters made in this last episode.  

[s-man]

Liked the finale and the whole season but my two favorite episodes are 5 and 8.

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

I saw the finale last night.

Overall I thought as a stand alone, the TV show was decent, not classic, not exactly memorable but I definitely enjoyed it.

As I've said before it doesn't interfere with the game mythos and it never will. The game itself is like actually acting in a movie, and the story is stronger and has more depth, even though the TV show can explore the story in different ways.

I was disappointed that the last episode was so short. I was expecting at least 1hr 20mins.  43 minutes was ridiculous. Indeed the last two episodes felt rushed to me.

It really did feel to me like they couldn't wait to get the whole series in the can, which was a shame after the good work done in previous episodes.

The 2nd game story is HUGE, so it will be interesting to see what road they go down with it.

It was interesting that Laura Bailey was given a part in the finale, as she plays a significant role in TLOU2.

( I suggest those unfamiliar with the story do not research the name, as you will undoubtedly come across spoilers)

It was also good to see 'Game Ellie', Ashley Johnson playing the part of Ellie's mother. She did a fantastic job, as she always does.

I would give the show a 7/10 if comparing it to the game (which is an unrivalled 10/10)

If rating the show completely on it's own merits, pretending I had no knowledge of events in the game, I would probably give it an 8/10.

But overall a good job.

Bella stole the whole show.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Paul © ® ™⚽️💙

[Zonker]

On 3/15/2023 at 10:45 AM, Paul © ® ™⚽️💙 said:

 

It was also good to see 'Game Ellie', Ashley Johnson playing the part of Ellie's mother. She did a fantastic job, as she always does.

 

When I first saw the sequence with Ellie's mother, I thought-- "wow she kind of looks like Bella, they did a good job of casting!"

And then when I found out who the actress was,     I was even more impressed with the casting (of Bella, this time!)

[Dr. Balls]

I'm ok with the direction of the show since I am unfamiliar with the game - I felt the conclusion was really rushed. She gets there and the immediate (like within hours) conclusion is to kill the patient and ruin the only potential viable cure? That and the relatively short amount of time between the walk from Colorado back to Wyoming seemed a little rushed to me. Joel going through the hospital Punisher-style was pretty cool. I didn't like that he lied about what happened, but I liked how it's going to be a serious tension point.

I decided to watch The Unbearable Weight of Massive Talent to leave me with a Pedro Pascal high note for the weekend.

[Zonker]

On 3/15/2023 at 12:43 PM, Dr. Balls said:

I'm ok with the direction of the show since I am unfamiliar with the game - I felt the conclusion was really rushed. She gets there and the immediate (like within hours) conclusion is to kill the patient and ruin the only potential viable cure? That and the relatively short amount of time between the walk from Colorado back to Wyoming seemed a little rushed to me. Joel going through the hospital Punisher-style was pretty cool. I didn't like that he lied about what happened, but I liked how it's going to be a serious tension point.

I decided to watch The Unbearable Weight of Massive Talent to leave me with a Pedro Pascal high note for the weekend.

I've been picking at the show up until now, so let me take a turn at standing up for the last episode--

1- the Fireflies have had the better part of a year to theorize how to harvest a cure from Ellie, including what they learned* from Marlene about her origins.  And they are powering their hospital with a 20-year-old backup generator, so time is short.  They probably did some kind of quick test to confirm the theory they've been working on, and then went for it.  But at the same time, their rush-to-harvest does make Joel's choice easier for the viewer to justify.

2- didn't they actually drive from Salt Lake City to Wyoming before their stolen car gave out?  I think they said they only had a 5 hour walk ahead of them to Jackson.

* I wonder (since I know nothing about the games, this is pure speculation) whether the lie Ellie's mom told Marlene will factor into the ultimate resolution.  She told Marlene she cut the cord before being bitten (surely to convince Marlene not to put down baby Ellie), but we saw that was not the case.